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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • I like your cold hearted maths Robin lol, but, I would propose keeping Love Me Do, keeping Please Please Me, but dropping Come Together. It was never going to be a #1 until Billboard combined it with Something.
    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

    Comment


    • Come Together was #1 on its own separately in Cash Box for 3 weeks, Something peaking at #2. In Record World, like I said above, Something/Come Together was #1 for 2 weeks, then it flipped to Come Together/Something for 3 more weeks at #1. So math-wise Come Together is legit.

      If I had my druthers, I'd drop The Ballad of John and Yoko, as I flat out do not like it, and replace it with Strawberry Fields Forever and Love Me Do, ha...

      Comment


      • Greetings Pop Pickers !

        Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 9th 1963

        The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 9th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
        Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
        Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
        1 1 Please Please Me - The Beatles 1= 2 1 2 3 9690
        6 2 Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard 1= 1 4 1 2 9420
        3 3 The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee 3= 4 3 3 4 9110
        2 4 The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield 3= 6 2 5 1 9050
        7 5 That's What Love Will Do - Joe Brown 5 3 5 4 5 8830
        12 6 Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury 6 5 8 6 6 8050
        4 7 Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan 7 7 7 7 8 7890
        5 8 Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 8 10 6 9 7 7670
        8 9 Island Of Dreams - The Springfields 9 9 9 10 9 7210
        16 10 Tell Him - Billie Davis 10 12 12 8 14 6410
        15 11 Hey Paula - Paul and Paula 11 14 11 13 11 6200
        14 12 Hava Nagila - The Spotnicks 12 16 10 11 16 6100
        11 13 Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers 13= 15 14 17 10 5480
        28 14 One Broken Heart For Sale - Elvis Presley 15 8 18 15 18 5440
        17 15 Charmaine - The Bachelors 13= 13 17 14 12 5320
        9 16 Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon 16 19 13 16 13 5190
        13 17 All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee 17 17 16 19 15 4730
        10 18 Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball 18 20 15 18 17 4570
        NEW 19 Foot Tapper - The Shadows 19 11 24 12 25 4180
        18 20 Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard 20 23 19 20 19 3510
        27 21 Cupboard Love - John Leyton 21 18 22 22 23 3340
        23 22 Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - Richard Chamberlain 22 24 20 21 20 3180
        NEW 23 From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller 23 21 27 24 21 2250
        20 24 Like I Do - Maureen Evans 24 27 23 26 24 2060
        19 25 Globetrotter - The Tornados 25 29 21 22 1970
        NEW 26 Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades 26 22 25 30 1230
        22 27 A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk 28= 25 30 28 1040
        NEW 28 Say Wonderful Things - Ronnie Carroll 27 25 23 1000
        24 29 My Little Girl - The Crickets 26 29 850
        30 30 Boss Guitar - Duane Eddy 28= 27 29 27 820
        The Next Time - Cliff Richard 26
        21 Don't You Think It's Time - Mike Berry 30= 28 26 600
        25 Big Girls Don't Cry - The Four Seasons 30 29 210
        B Pied Piper - Steve Race 30= 27 200
        X My Kind Of Girl - Frank Sinatra 28 150
        B Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva 30 100
        26 Dance On - The Shadows
        29 Some Kinda Fun - Chris Montez
        The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

        Comment


        • The Beatles hold for a 3rd straight week at #1 on The Ultimate Chart.

          Because of ties the BBC chart has 5 records in the top three. Crazy !
          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

          Comment


          • And 3 weeks at no. 1 in the BBC combined chart - yet history (well the OCC using RR chart) says they never even reached no. 1.
            A complete travesty!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by brian05 View Post
              And 3 weeks at no. 1 in the BBC combined chart - yet history (well the OCC using RR chart) says they never even reached no. 1.
              A complete travesty!
              Yip ! All the evidence proves this should always have been the official #1 for these 3 weeks.
              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

              Comment


              • As much as I agree with The Beatles being no.1, iI wonder whether it should really be Cliff. Beatles win out on points, but Cliff wins out on number of no.1s (2 vs 1), best top 3 (112 vs 122), though they are equal on sum (8).
                Last edited by braindeadpj; Sun April 18, 2021, 18:53.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

                  Yip ! All the evidence proves this should always have been the official #1 for these 3 weeks.
                  But on sales only - not "points" they were only two weeks, they lost out to Cliff Richard that very week. Even the NME and Disc charts agreed on that. How Melody Maker got Cliff at four is beyond me
                  Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
                    As much as I agree with The Beatles being no.1, iI wonder whether it should really be Cliff. Beatles win out on points, but Cliff wins out on number of no.1s (2 vs 1), best top 3 (112 vs 122), though they are equal on sum (8).
                    What has made a difference here is #1 is a three way split brain. The 3 point rule only kicks in when a record is #1 on all other charts but loses out on points, otherwise it's a straight points win.
                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                    Comment


                    • The BBC had a joint no. 1 so that is fine by me. But still 3 weeks at no. 1 for The Beatles.

                      Comment


                      • It is one of those instances where what happened (Cliff replaced Beatles) is clearer than when it happened. As POTP was broadcast over a week after the survey period, their joint Beatles/Cliff number one was probably quite appropriate.

                        What I think is significant is that The Wayward Wind never achieved number one in the BBC chart either, even in a joint position. The only non-RR chart to have it at number one was the NME in one of their many joint-tops. RRs 3-week Ifield reign is an oddity in itself, apart from it blotting out the Beatles.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                          It is one of those instances where what happened (Cliff replaced Beatles) is clearer than when it happened. As POTP was broadcast over a week after the survey period, their joint Beatles/Cliff number one was probably quite appropriate.

                          What I think is significant is that The Wayward Wind never achieved number one in the BBC chart either, even in a joint position. The only non-RR chart to have it at number one was the NME in one of their many joint-tops. RRs 3-week Ifield reign is an oddity in itself, apart from it blotting out the Beatles.
                          FYI, Disc had The Wayward Wind at #1 on Feb 16...

                          Comment


                          • oops, that escaped my notice

                            Comment


                            • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                              Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 16th 1963

                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 16th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
                              Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
                              Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                              2 1 Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard 1 1 1 1 1 9900
                              1 2 Please Please Me - The Beatles 2 2 2 2 2 9570
                              5 3 That's What Love Will Do - Joe Brown 4 5 3 5 3 8940
                              6 4 Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury 3 3 5 3 4 8910
                              3 5 The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee 5 6 4 4 5 8680
                              19 6 Foot Tapper - The Shadows 6 4 6 6 9 8360
                              4 7 The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield 7 7 7 7 7 7920
                              9 8 Island Of Dreams - The Springfields 8 9 8 11 6 7400
                              11 9 Hey Paula - Paul and Paula 9 11 9 9 8 7090
                              10 10 Tell Him - Billie Davis 10 13 10 8 10 6730
                              14 11 One Broken Heart For Sale - Elvis Presley 11 8 13 10 12 6620
                              7 12 Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan 13 12 11 13 13 6340
                              15 13 Charmaine - The Bachelors 12 10 15 12 11 6050
                              8 14 Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 14 16 12 16 14 5610
                              12 15 Hava Nagila - The Spotnicks 15 18 14 15 23 4890
                              13 16 Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers 17 21 16 21 15 4230
                              23 17 From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller 16 17 22 14 16 4050
                              26 18 Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades 18 15 23 17 17 3920
                              16 19 Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon 20 23 17 20 18 3840
                              28 20 Say Wonderful Things - Ronnie Carroll 19 14 24 18 21 3700
                              21 21 Cupboard Love - John Leyton 21 20 20 19 22 3620
                              18 22 Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball 22 22 18 25 20 3480
                              17 23 All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee 23 25 19 23 19 3160
                              22 24 Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - Richard Chamberlain 24 24 21 22 24 2860
                              20 25 Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard 25 26 25 26 25 1830
                              NEW 26 Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva 26 28 26 27 26 1400
                              NEW 27 Brown Eyed Handsome Man - Buddy Holly 27 19 29 1300
                              NEW 28 Pied Piper - Steve Race 28 27 28 29 810
                              24 29 Like I Do - Maureen Evans 30= 28 27 570
                              NEW 30 In Dreams - Roy Orbison 29 27 30 28 540
                              25 Globetrotter - The Tornados 30 29 400
                              B How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 30= 24 350
                              X My Kind Of Girl - Frank Sinatra 29 200
                              27 A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk 30 150
                              30 Boss Guitar - Duane Eddy 30 30
                              29 My Little Girl - The Crickets
                              The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                              Comment


                              • Cliff finally captures the #1 position this week but as we all know The Beatles have only commenced their chart campaign.

                                Another two cracking new entries this week that I still love to this day, Buddy Holly's Brown Eyed Handsome Man, and Roy Orbison's In Dreams. As Cathy McGowan used to say on Ready Steady Go, ' I Think It's Smashing'
                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                Comment


                                • My favourite new entry - Gerry and the Pacemakers with How do you do it?
                                  A future no. 1? We shall see.

                                  Comment


                                  • Yeah if it wasn't for The Beatles it would have been Gerry's year Brian but he was relegated to their shadow.
                                    The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                    Comment


                                    • Graham76man
                                      Graham76man commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      Ironic since if it wasn't for the Beatles, Gerry wouldn't have been signed.

                                  • 26 Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva

                                    How come this is a double A-side?
                                    Did the flip side make an appearance in any top 50 chart?

                                    Comment


                                    • kingofskiffle
                                      kingofskiffle commented
                                      Editing a comment
                                      NME (Peak of 28) andPop Weekly Singles (1 wk Peak 30 23 Mar 63)

                                  • Apparently Gerry copied the Beatles arrangement for How Do You Do It rather than that on the acetate demo, so they made a contribution. But Gerry's version is better, mainly because he sounds like he does actually want to sing it!

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by brian05 View Post
                                      26 Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva

                                      How come this is a double A-side?
                                      Did the flip side make an appearance in any top 50 chart?
                                      Yeah Brian. Both sides were credited at some point on at least one of the 4 major charts.
                                      The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                      Comment


                                      • In an interview in the Record Mirror on 16th March 1963 Gerry said,



                                        Wonder what happened to that song? Maybe he meant "Hello Little Girl" which was recorded by The Beatles (on Anthology 1) and was later a no. 9 hit for The Fourmost in September 1963. “Hello Little Girl” is the first song ever written by John Lennon, and credited to the Lennon–McCartney song writing partnership. The recording by Gerry & The Pacemakers was not released until the 1991 compilation, The Best of Gerry & the Pacemakers.

                                        Comment


                                        • I've not heard Gerry's but The Fourmost's version was a really good record.
                                          The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

                                          Comment


                                          • There is always Spotify! Or YouTube (Gerry and the Pacemakers - Hello Little Girl - YouTube). Alternatively, you can get a 30 second sample on iTunes by listening to The Greatest Beatles Covers.

                                            Fourmost version is best, followed by Gerry, followed by Beatles (used for Decca audition).

                                            Comment


                                            • I think I’ve solved the mystery of the Record Retailer tie-breaker: thanks to Alan Smith, I have finally cracked the code, ha. Plus there are 2 new previously unknown factoids to share.

                                              As we have read, Alan had written up in his several chart articles that RR had broken chart position ties based on the rate of change of sales from the previous week. The record with the largest rate of sales increase would be awarded the higher chart position, the other record would get the lower position.

                                              I had erroneously taken this to mean that if 2 records were tied at say #1 this week, then the #1 would go to the record which was LOWER on the chart last week, because it would thus have a higher rate of change week over week. But that is not what Alan said, or meant to say.

                                              After exchanging 8 emails with Alan over this issue in Aug-Sep 2019, sifting it thru my mind, it finally hit me like a lightning bolt yesterday, and it’s all clear now. Here’s the digest of info from Alan:

                                              --Alan had talked with Norman Bates of RR in about 1999 and learned the following info, as chart compiler Jeremy Wilder alas was no longer available.

                                              --chart compiler Jeremy Wilder and editor Roy Parker devised the ‘countback’ tie-breaker system when realizing that using only up to 30 record shops (Mar 1960 thru Dec 1963) for a Top 50 chart would produce many tied positions.

                                              --the tie-breaker was a 3 step process: after the 30 record shop charts were averaged (added) together, there would typically be at least half a dozen tied positions each week. Jeremy would then call up 1 or 2 of the largest retailers in either London or Liverpool, get the rate of change in sales over the previous week of those tied records, and the record with the largest rate of increase in sales was awarded the higher chart position.

                                              --if records were still tied, then Jeremy would break the tie looking at the sales of the current week.

                                              --if the records were still tied (and this did happen on occasion), then they drew lots! That is new factoid #1. Norman laughed about this, but by publication time, there were no ties. (although Alan says sometimes a tie did leak out)

                                              --BIG PROBLEM: it’s possible that for 2 given tied records across the 30 averaged record shop charts, the record with the larger rate of sales increase week over week at the 1 or 2 largest retailers actually did NOT sell the most copies this week at those 1 or 2 retailers !! Example: let’s say Records X and Y tied at #1 on the average of 30 RR record shop charts. At the largest record shop on RR’s list, let’s say Record X sold 200 copies last week, 250 copies this week. Record Y sold 150 copies last week, and 225 copies this week. Record X thus showed a sales increase of 25%, and Record Y showed a sales increase of 50%. According to this formula, Record Y would get the #1 position, Record X would get the #2, YET RECORD X SOLD MORE COPIES THIS WEEK THAN RECORD Y !! This is totally bogus !!

                                              --factoid #2: Alan says these ties are what delayed RR from being compiled on Mondays as were all the other charts. Jeremy had to spend Tuesdays contacting the record shops for rate of change of sales (or sales) figures in order to break ties and finish the chart. So that secret is now out, amazing!

                                              --to reiterate, the rate of change of sales (or sales) of 1 or 2 shops were used to break chart position ties of the 30 shops averaged together.

                                              So mystery solved! But still, it’s mathematical malpractice to use prior week data to establish a current week chart. Last week was last week, it has nothing to do with this week. Period !!

                                              FYI, when RR went to 80 shops in January 1964, there were much fewer instances of ties, so the chart could be passed onto the BBC sooner, in time for Pick/Top of the Pops.

                                              Thanks Alan !!! Sad to say, I haven’t heard from Alan since Sep 2019, though I’ve sent him 6 emails since then. I do hope he’s well, and still with us…

                                              ---

                                              More about the RR ties and errors. Dave Taylor had been in contact with someone who had worked at RR back in the day, who was supplying him with inside chart info and calcs. Dave had posted some of this RR info here on UKMix, and also at other sites, dealing with records that had tied on RR at #1 but were forced into tie-breakers, plus other chart errors. Coincidentally, both Brian and I were in contact with Dave about this at about the same time, but unfortunately Dave’s RR contact person passed away right in the middle of his discussions, sometime in 2012, and the remainder of this info is now apparently lost to history, ugh. Unless Trevor might know something.

                                              Some of what Dave had posted / told us was:

                                              --Please Please Me had indeed tied at #1 for at least 1 week on RR, but lost the tie-breaker

                                              --Likewise for 19th Nervous Breakdown

                                              --the Small Faces “Sha-La-La-La-Lee” should have hit #1 on RR, but due to a math error its chart data got mixed up with Nancy Sinatra’s “Boots”

                                              --there was another instance on RR where Tom Jones got mixed up with Tommy James, on the infamous Aug 31, 1968 chart. This RR error resulted in the 3-way tie at #1 on the BBC average chart, which otherwise would not have happened, and the BBC #1 would have instead gone to The Bee Gees.


                                              Incredibly fascinating, ha…
                                              Last edited by RokinRobinOfLocksley; Tue April 20, 2021, 13:46. Reason: added 'BBC' in last paragraph to clarify...

                                              Comment


                                              • Robin thanks for this detailed and highly informative piece of research. Your findings are eye opening especially that important chart positions sometimes were decided by drawing lots. All the more interesting given that we are talking about what is the purported 'official' chart. Its yet further evidence of what a joke the RR chart was.

                                                So the UK record industry, the BBC, and the OCC, continue to promote a shambolic thrown together chart using a handful of stores and another week's figures for ties and the toss of a coin to decide on a chart position as the chart of choice for the era. If it wasn't so serious I'd be rolling on the floor in stitches.
                                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart. The Definitive Chart Reflecting The Fifties and Sixties.

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