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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Come Together was #1 on its own separately in Cash Box for 3 weeks, Something peaking at #2. In Record World, like I said above, Something/Come Together was #1 for 2 weeks, then it flipped to Come Together/Something for 3 more weeks at #1. So math-wise Come Together is legit.

    If I had my druthers, I'd drop The Ballad of John and Yoko, as I flat out do not like it, and replace it with Strawberry Fields Forever and Love Me Do, ha...

    Comment


    • Greetings Pop Pickers !

      Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 9th 1963

      The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 9th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
      Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
      Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
      1 1 Please Please Me - The Beatles 1= 2 1 2 3 9690
      6 2 Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard 1= 1 4 1 2 9420
      3 3 The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee 3= 4 3 3 4 9110
      2 4 The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield 3= 6 2 5 1 9050
      7 5 That's What Love Will Do - Joe Brown 5 3 5 4 5 8830
      12 6 Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury 6 5 8 6 6 8050
      4 7 Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan 7 7 7 7 8 7890
      5 8 Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 8 10 6 9 7 7670
      8 9 Island Of Dreams - The Springfields 9 9 9 10 9 7210
      16 10 Tell Him - Billie Davis 10 12 12 8 14 6410
      15 11 Hey Paula - Paul and Paula 11 14 11 13 11 6200
      14 12 Hava Nagila - The Spotnicks 12 16 10 11 16 6100
      11 13 Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers 13= 15 14 17 10 5480
      28 14 One Broken Heart For Sale - Elvis Presley 15 8 18 15 18 5440
      17 15 Charmaine - The Bachelors 13= 13 17 14 12 5320
      9 16 Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon 16 19 13 16 13 5190
      13 17 All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee 17 17 16 19 15 4730
      10 18 Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball 18 20 15 18 17 4570
      NEW 19 Foot Tapper - The Shadows 19 11 24 12 25 4180
      18 20 Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard 20 23 19 20 19 3510
      27 21 Cupboard Love - John Leyton 21 18 22 22 23 3340
      23 22 Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - Richard Chamberlain 22 24 20 21 20 3180
      NEW 23 From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller 23 21 27 24 21 2250
      20 24 Like I Do - Maureen Evans 24 27 23 26 24 2060
      19 25 Globetrotter - The Tornados 25 29 21 22 1970
      NEW 26 Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades 26 22 25 30 1230
      22 27 A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk 28= 25 30 28 1040
      NEW 28 Say Wonderful Things - Ronnie Carroll 27 25 23 1000
      24 29 My Little Girl - The Crickets 26 29 850
      30 30 Boss Guitar - Duane Eddy 28= 27 29 27 820
      The Next Time - Cliff Richard 26
      21 Don't You Think It's Time - Mike Berry 30= 28 26 600
      25 Big Girls Don't Cry - The Four Seasons 30 29 210
      B Pied Piper - Steve Race 30= 27 200
      X My Kind Of Girl - Frank Sinatra 28 150
      B Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva 30 100
      26 Dance On - The Shadows
      29 Some Kinda Fun - Chris Montez
      The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

      The Biggest Chart Of The Time

      Comment


      • The Beatles hold for a 3rd straight week at #1 on The Ultimate Chart.

        Because of ties the BBC chart has 5 records in the top three. Crazy !
        The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

        The Biggest Chart Of The Time

        Comment


        • And 3 weeks at no. 1 in the BBC combined chart - yet history (well the OCC using RR chart) says they never even reached no. 1.
          A complete travesty!

          Comment


          • Originally posted by brian05 View Post
            And 3 weeks at no. 1 in the BBC combined chart - yet history (well the OCC using RR chart) says they never even reached no. 1.
            A complete travesty!
            Yip ! All the evidence proves this should always have been the official #1 for these 3 weeks.
            The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

            The Biggest Chart Of The Time

            Comment


            • As much as I agree with The Beatles being no.1, iI wonder whether it should really be Cliff. Beatles win out on points, but Cliff wins out on number of no.1s (2 vs 1), best top 3 (112 vs 122), though they are equal on sum (8).
              Last edited by braindeadpj; Sun April 18, 2021, 17:53.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

                Yip ! All the evidence proves this should always have been the official #1 for these 3 weeks.
                But on sales only - not "points" they were only two weeks, they lost out to Cliff Richard that very week. Even the NME and Disc charts agreed on that. How Melody Maker got Cliff at four is beyond me
                Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
                  As much as I agree with The Beatles being no.1, iI wonder whether it should really be Cliff. Beatles win out on points, but Cliff wins out on number of no.1s (2 vs 1), best top 3 (112 vs 122), though they are equal on sum (8).
                  What has made a difference here is #1 is a three way split brain. The 3 point rule only kicks in when a record is #1 on all other charts but loses out on points, otherwise it's a straight points win.
                  The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                  The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                  Comment


                  • The BBC had a joint no. 1 so that is fine by me. But still 3 weeks at no. 1 for The Beatles.

                    Comment


                    • It is one of those instances where what happened (Cliff replaced Beatles) is clearer than when it happened. As POTP was broadcast over a week after the survey period, their joint Beatles/Cliff number one was probably quite appropriate.

                      What I think is significant is that The Wayward Wind never achieved number one in the BBC chart either, even in a joint position. The only non-RR chart to have it at number one was the NME in one of their many joint-tops. RRs 3-week Ifield reign is an oddity in itself, apart from it blotting out the Beatles.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                        It is one of those instances where what happened (Cliff replaced Beatles) is clearer than when it happened. As POTP was broadcast over a week after the survey period, their joint Beatles/Cliff number one was probably quite appropriate.

                        What I think is significant is that The Wayward Wind never achieved number one in the BBC chart either, even in a joint position. The only non-RR chart to have it at number one was the NME in one of their many joint-tops. RRs 3-week Ifield reign is an oddity in itself, apart from it blotting out the Beatles.
                        FYI, Disc had The Wayward Wind at #1 on Feb 16...

                        Comment


                        • oops, that escaped my notice

                          Comment


                          • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                            Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 16th 1963

                            The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 16th 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
                            Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
                            Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                            2 1 Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard 1 1 1 1 1 9900
                            1 2 Please Please Me - The Beatles 2 2 2 2 2 9570
                            5 3 That's What Love Will Do - Joe Brown 4 5 3 5 3 8940
                            6 4 Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury 3 3 5 3 4 8910
                            3 5 The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee 5 6 4 4 5 8680
                            19 6 Foot Tapper - The Shadows 6 4 6 6 9 8360
                            4 7 The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield 7 7 7 7 7 7920
                            9 8 Island Of Dreams - The Springfields 8 9 8 11 6 7400
                            11 9 Hey Paula - Paul and Paula 9 11 9 9 8 7090
                            10 10 Tell Him - Billie Davis 10 13 10 8 10 6730
                            14 11 One Broken Heart For Sale - Elvis Presley 11 8 13 10 12 6620
                            7 12 Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan 13 12 11 13 13 6340
                            15 13 Charmaine - The Bachelors 12 10 15 12 11 6050
                            8 14 Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 14 16 12 16 14 5610
                            12 15 Hava Nagila - The Spotnicks 15 18 14 15 23 4890
                            13 16 Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers 17 21 16 21 15 4230
                            23 17 From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller 16 17 22 14 16 4050
                            26 18 Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades 18 15 23 17 17 3920
                            16 19 Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon 20 23 17 20 18 3840
                            28 20 Say Wonderful Things - Ronnie Carroll 19 14 24 18 21 3700
                            21 21 Cupboard Love - John Leyton 21 20 20 19 22 3620
                            18 22 Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball 22 22 18 25 20 3480
                            17 23 All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee 23 25 19 23 19 3160
                            22 24 Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - Richard Chamberlain 24 24 21 22 24 2860
                            20 25 Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard 25 26 25 26 25 1830
                            NEW 26 Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva 26 28 26 27 26 1400
                            NEW 27 Brown Eyed Handsome Man - Buddy Holly 27 19 29 1300
                            NEW 28 Pied Piper - Steve Race 28 27 28 29 810
                            24 29 Like I Do - Maureen Evans 30= 28 27 570
                            NEW 30 In Dreams - Roy Orbison 29 27 30 28 540
                            25 Globetrotter - The Tornados 30 29 400
                            B How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 30= 24 350
                            X My Kind Of Girl - Frank Sinatra 29 200
                            27 A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk 30 150
                            30 Boss Guitar - Duane Eddy 30 30
                            29 My Little Girl - The Crickets
                            The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                            The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                            Comment


                            • Cliff finally captures the #1 position this week but as we all know The Beatles have only commenced their chart campaign.

                              Another two cracking new entries this week that I still love to this day, Buddy Holly's Brown Eyed Handsome Man, and Roy Orbison's In Dreams. As Cathy McGowan used to say on Ready Steady Go, ' I Think It's Smashing'
                              The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                              The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                              Comment


                              • My favourite new entry - Gerry and the Pacemakers with How do you do it?
                                A future no. 1? We shall see.

                                Comment


                                • Yeah if it wasn't for The Beatles it would have been Gerry's year Brian but he was relegated to their shadow.
                                  The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                  The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                  Comment


                                  • Graham76man
                                    Graham76man commented
                                    Editing a comment
                                    Ironic since if it wasn't for the Beatles, Gerry wouldn't have been signed.

                                • 26 Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva

                                  How come this is a double A-side?
                                  Did the flip side make an appearance in any top 50 chart?

                                  Comment


                                  • kingofskiffle
                                    kingofskiffle commented
                                    Editing a comment
                                    NME (Peak of 28) andPop Weekly Singles (1 wk Peak 30 23 Mar 63)

                                • Apparently Gerry copied the Beatles arrangement for How Do You Do It rather than that on the acetate demo, so they made a contribution. But Gerry's version is better, mainly because he sounds like he does actually want to sing it!

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by brian05 View Post
                                    26 Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva

                                    How come this is a double A-side?
                                    Did the flip side make an appearance in any top 50 chart?
                                    Yeah Brian. Both sides were credited at some point on at least one of the 4 major charts.
                                    The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                    The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                    Comment


                                    • In an interview in the Record Mirror on 16th March 1963 Gerry said,



                                      Wonder what happened to that song? Maybe he meant "Hello Little Girl" which was recorded by The Beatles (on Anthology 1) and was later a no. 9 hit for The Fourmost in September 1963. “Hello Little Girl” is the first song ever written by John Lennon, and credited to the Lennon–McCartney song writing partnership. The recording by Gerry & The Pacemakers was not released until the 1991 compilation, The Best of Gerry & the Pacemakers.

                                      Comment


                                      • I've not heard Gerry's but The Fourmost's version was a really good record.
                                        The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                        The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                        Comment


                                        • There is always Spotify! Or YouTube (Gerry and the Pacemakers - Hello Little Girl - YouTube). Alternatively, you can get a 30 second sample on iTunes by listening to The Greatest Beatles Covers.

                                          Fourmost version is best, followed by Gerry, followed by Beatles (used for Decca audition).

                                          Comment


                                          • I think I’ve solved the mystery of the Record Retailer tie-breaker: thanks to Alan Smith, I have finally cracked the code, ha. Plus there are 2 new previously unknown factoids to share.

                                            As we have read, Alan had written up in his several chart articles that RR had broken chart position ties based on the rate of change of sales from the previous week. The record with the largest rate of sales increase would be awarded the higher chart position, the other record would get the lower position.

                                            I had erroneously taken this to mean that if 2 records were tied at say #1 this week, then the #1 would go to the record which was LOWER on the chart last week, because it would thus have a higher rate of change week over week. But that is not what Alan said, or meant to say.

                                            After exchanging 8 emails with Alan over this issue in Aug-Sep 2019, sifting it thru my mind, it finally hit me like a lightning bolt yesterday, and it’s all clear now. Here’s the digest of info from Alan:

                                            --Alan had talked with Norman Bates of RR in about 1999 and learned the following info, as chart compiler Jeremy Wilder alas was no longer available.

                                            --chart compiler Jeremy Wilder and editor Roy Parker devised the ‘countback’ tie-breaker system when realizing that using only up to 30 record shops (Mar 1960 thru Dec 1963) for a Top 50 chart would produce many tied positions.

                                            --the tie-breaker was a 3 step process: after the 30 record shop charts were averaged (added) together, there would typically be at least half a dozen tied positions each week. Jeremy would then call up 1 or 2 of the largest retailers in either London or Liverpool, get the rate of change in sales over the previous week of those tied records, and the record with the largest rate of increase in sales was awarded the higher chart position.

                                            --if records were still tied, then Jeremy would break the tie looking at the sales of the current week.

                                            --if the records were still tied (and this did happen on occasion), then they drew lots! That is new factoid #1. Norman laughed about this, but by publication time, there were no ties. (although Alan says sometimes a tie did leak out)

                                            --BIG PROBLEM: it’s possible that for 2 given tied records across the 30 averaged record shop charts, the record with the larger rate of sales increase week over week at the 1 or 2 largest retailers actually did NOT sell the most copies this week at those 1 or 2 retailers !! Example: let’s say Records X and Y tied at #1 on the average of 30 RR record shop charts. At the largest record shop on RR’s list, let’s say Record X sold 200 copies last week, 250 copies this week. Record Y sold 150 copies last week, and 225 copies this week. Record X thus showed a sales increase of 25%, and Record Y showed a sales increase of 50%. According to this formula, Record Y would get the #1 position, Record X would get the #2, YET RECORD X SOLD MORE COPIES THIS WEEK THAN RECORD Y !! This is totally bogus !!

                                            --factoid #2: Alan says these ties are what delayed RR from being compiled on Mondays as were all the other charts. Jeremy had to spend Tuesdays contacting the record shops for rate of change of sales (or sales) figures in order to break ties and finish the chart. So that secret is now out, amazing!

                                            --to reiterate, the rate of change of sales (or sales) of 1 or 2 shops were used to break chart position ties of the 30 shops averaged together.

                                            So mystery solved! But still, it’s mathematical malpractice to use prior week data to establish a current week chart. Last week was last week, it has nothing to do with this week. Period !!

                                            FYI, when RR went to 80 shops in January 1964, there were much fewer instances of ties, so the chart could be passed onto the BBC sooner, in time for Pick/Top of the Pops.

                                            Thanks Alan !!! Sad to say, I haven’t heard from Alan since Sep 2019, though I’ve sent him 6 emails since then. I do hope he’s well, and still with us…

                                            ---

                                            More about the RR ties and errors. Dave Taylor had been in contact with someone who had worked at RR back in the day, who was supplying him with inside chart info and calcs. Dave had posted some of this RR info here on UKMix, and also at other sites, dealing with records that had tied on RR at #1 but were forced into tie-breakers, plus other chart errors. Coincidentally, both Brian and I were in contact with Dave about this at about the same time, but unfortunately Dave’s RR contact person passed away right in the middle of his discussions, sometime in 2012, and the remainder of this info is now apparently lost to history, ugh. Unless Trevor might know something.

                                            Some of what Dave had posted / told us was:

                                            --Please Please Me had indeed tied at #1 for at least 1 week on RR, but lost the tie-breaker

                                            --Likewise for 19th Nervous Breakdown

                                            --the Small Faces “Sha-La-La-La-Lee” should have hit #1 on RR, but due to a math error its chart data got mixed up with Nancy Sinatra’s “Boots”

                                            --there was another instance on RR where Tom Jones got mixed up with Tommy James, on the infamous Aug 31, 1968 chart. This RR error resulted in the 3-way tie at #1 on the BBC average chart, which otherwise would not have happened, and the BBC #1 would have instead gone to The Bee Gees.


                                            Incredibly fascinating, ha…
                                            Last edited by RokinRobinOfLocksley; Tue April 20, 2021, 12:46. Reason: added 'BBC' in last paragraph to clarify...

                                            Comment


                                            • Robin thanks for this detailed and highly informative piece of research. Your findings are eye opening especially that important chart positions sometimes were decided by drawing lots. All the more interesting given that we are talking about what is the purported 'official' chart. Its yet further evidence of what a joke the RR chart was.

                                              So the UK record industry, the BBC, and the OCC, continue to promote a shambolic thrown together chart using a handful of stores and another week's figures for ties and the toss of a coin to decide on a chart position as the chart of choice for the era. If it wasn't so serious I'd be rolling on the floor in stitches.
                                              The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                              The Biggest Chart Of The Time

                                              Comment


                                              • Greetings Pop Pickers !

                                                Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 23rd 1963

                                                The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 23rd 1963 NME MM DISC RR Total
                                                Last This The Sound Survey Stores 100 150 50 30 Points
                                                Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart BBC TOP 30 Scored
                                                1 1 Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard 1 1 1 1 1 9900
                                                6 2 Foot Tapper - The Shadows 2 2 2 2 2 9570
                                                3 3 That's What Love Will Do - Joe Brown 3 5 3 3 3 9040
                                                4 4 Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury 4 3 5 4 4 8860
                                                2 5 Please Please Me - The Beatles 5 4 4 5 5 8830
                                                5 6 The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee 6 9 6 6 6 7950
                                                8 7 Island Of Dreams - The Springfields 7 8 7 7 7 7820
                                                13 8 Charmaine - The Bachelors 8 6 11 9 8 7290
                                                9 9 Hey Paula - Paul and Paula 9 14 8 10 9 6860
                                                17 10 From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller 10 7 14 8 13 6640
                                                7 11 The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield 11= 13 9 13 10 6630
                                                11 12 One Broken Heart For Sale - Elvis Presley 11= 10 12 11 12 6520
                                                18 13 Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades 13 11 13 12 14 6160
                                                10 14 Tell Him - Billie Davis 14 16 10 14 11 6100
                                                20 15 Say Wonderful Things - Ronnie Carroll 15 14 15 16 16 5300
                                                27 16 Brown Eyed Handsome Man - Buddy Holly 16 12 19 17 19 4760
                                                12 17 Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan 17 19 17 18 15 4430
                                                14 18 Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan 19 23 16 22 18 3890
                                                21 19 Cupboard Love - John Leyton 20 21 18 19 22 3820
                                                NEW 20 How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers 18 17 24 15 20 3580
                                                26 21 Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomation - Little Eva 22 20 22 26 21 3000
                                                16 22 Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers 21 26 20 23 17 2970
                                                15 23 Hava Nagila - The Spotnicks 23 21 20 27 2170
                                                24 24 Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - Richard Chamberlain 24 25 25 27 24 1910
                                                NEW 25 Robot - The Tornados 25= 18 25 1600
                                                30 26 In Dreams - Roy Orbison 27= 23 27 25 1580
                                                23 27 All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee 27= 23 29 23 1540
                                                NEW 28 The Folk Singer - Tommy Roe 25= 22 21 1400
                                                22 29 Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball 29 26 26 900
                                                19 30 Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon 30= 28 30 28 590
                                                Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva 29
                                                B So It Will Always Be - The Everly Brothers 26 500
                                                B Mr Bass Man - Johnny Cymbal 30= 24 350
                                                28 Pied Piper - Steve Race 29 30 330
                                                X Good Golly Miss Molly - Jerry Lee Lewis 28 300
                                                B The End Of The World - Skeeter Davis 28 29 210
                                                25 The Next Time / Bachelor Boy - Cliff Richard 30 150
                                                B Count On Me - Julie Grant 30 100
                                                29 Like I Do - Maureen Evans
                                                The Record Mirror Chart Re-Calculated, Re-Worked, Extended

                                                The Biggest Chart Of The Time

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