The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

Come Together was #1 on its own separately in Cash Box for 3 weeks, Something peaking at #2. In Record World, like I said above, Something/Come Together was #1 for 2 weeks, then it flipped to Come Together/Something for 3 more weeks at #1. So math-wise Come Together is legit.

If I had my druthers, I'd drop The Ballad of John and Yoko, as I flat out do not like it, and replace it with Strawberry Fields Forever and Love Me Do, ha...

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 9th 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 9th 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Please Please Me - The Beatles					1=	2	1	2	3	9690
6	2	Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard					1=	1	4	1	2	9420
3	3	The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee					3=	4	3	3	4	9110
2	4	The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield					3=	6	2	5	1	9050
7	5	That's What Love Will Do - Joe Brown					5	3	5	4	5	8830
12	6	Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury					6	5	8	6	6	8050
4	7	Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan					7	7	7	7	8	7890
5	8	Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan					8	10	6	9	7	7670
8	9	Island Of Dreams - The Springfields					9	9	9	10	9	7210
16	10	Tell Him - Billie Davis					10	12	12	8	14	6410
15	11	Hey Paula - Paul and Paula					11	14	11	13	11	6200
14	12	Hava Nagila - The Spotnicks					12	16	10	11	16	6100
11	13	Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers					13=	15	14	17	10	5480
28	14	One Broken Heart For Sale - Elvis Presley					15	8	18	15	18	5440
17	15	Charmaine - The Bachelors					13=	13	17	14	12	5320
9	16	Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon					16	19	13	16	13	5190
13	17	All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee					17	17	16	19	15	4730
10	18	Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball					18	20	15	18	17	4570
NEW	19	Foot Tapper - The Shadows					19	11	24	12	25	4180
18	20	Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard					20	23	19	20	19	3510
27	21	Cupboard Love - John Leyton					21	18	22	22	23	3340
23	22	Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - Richard Chamberlain					22	24	20	21	20	3180
NEW	23	From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller					23	21	27	24	21	2250
20	24	Like I Do - Maureen Evans					24	27	23	26	24	2060
19	25	Globetrotter - The Tornados					25	29	21		22	1970
NEW	26	Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades					26	22		25	30	1230
22	27	A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk					28=		25	30	28	1040
NEW	28	Say Wonderful Things - Ronnie Carroll					27	25		23		1000
24	29	My Little Girl - The Crickets							26	29		850
30	30	Boss Guitar - Duane Eddy					28=	27	29		27	820
		The Next Time - Cliff Richard						26
21		Don't You Think It's Time - Mike Berry					30=		28		26	600
25		Big Girls Don't Cry - The Four Seasons							30		29	210
B		Pied Piper - Steve Race					30=			27		200
X		My Kind Of Girl - Frank Sinatra								28		150
B		Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva						30				100
26		Dance On - The Shadows
29		Some Kinda Fun - Chris Montez

[MrTibbs]

The Beatles hold for a 3rd straight week at #1 on The Ultimate Chart.

Because of ties the BBC chart has 5 records in the top three. Crazy !

[brian05]

And 3 weeks at no. 1 in the BBC combined chart - yet history (well the OCC using RR chart) says they never even reached no. 1.
A complete travesty!

[MrTibbs]

And 3 weeks at no. 1 in the BBC combined chart - yet history (well the OCC using RR chart) says they never even reached no. 1.
A complete travesty!

Yip ! All the evidence proves this should always have been the official #1 for these 3 weeks.

[braindeadpj]

As much as I agree with The Beatles being no.1, iI wonder whether it should really be Cliff. Beatles win out on points, but Cliff wins out on number of no.1s (2 vs 1), best top 3 (112 vs 122), though they are equal on sum (8).

[Graham76man]

Yip ! All the evidence proves this should always have been the official #1 for these 3 weeks.

But on sales only - not "points" they were only two weeks, they lost out to Cliff Richard that very week. Even the NME and Disc charts agreed on that. How Melody Maker got Cliff at four is beyond me

[MrTibbs]

As much as I agree with The Beatles being no.1, iI wonder whether it should really be Cliff. Beatles win out on points, but Cliff wins out on number of no.1s (2 vs 1), best top 3 (112 vs 122), though they are equal on sum (8).

What has made a difference here is #1 is a three way split brain. The 3 point rule only kicks in when a record is #1 on all other charts but loses out on points, otherwise it's a straight points win.

[brian05]

The BBC had a joint no. 1 so that is fine by me. But still 3 weeks at no. 1 for The Beatles.

[Splodj]

It is one of those instances where what happened (Cliff replaced Beatles) is clearer than when it happened. As POTP was broadcast over a week after the survey period, their joint Beatles/Cliff number one was probably quite appropriate.

What I think is significant is that The Wayward Wind never achieved number one in the BBC chart either, even in a joint position. The only non-RR chart to have it at number one was the NME in one of their many joint-tops. RRs 3-week Ifield reign is an oddity in itself, apart from it blotting out the Beatles.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

It is one of those instances where what happened (Cliff replaced Beatles) is clearer than when it happened. As POTP was broadcast over a week after the survey period, their joint Beatles/Cliff number one was probably quite appropriate.

What I think is significant is that The Wayward Wind never achieved number one in the BBC chart either, even in a joint position. The only non-RR chart to have it at number one was the NME in one of their many joint-tops. RRs 3-week Ifield reign is an oddity in itself, apart from it blotting out the Beatles.

FYI, Disc had The Wayward Wind at #1 on Feb 16...

[Splodj]

oops, that escaped my notice

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 16th 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 16th 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
2	1	Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard					1	1	1	1	1	9900
1	2	Please Please Me - The Beatles					2	2	2	2	2	9570
5	3	That's What Love Will Do - Joe Brown					4	5	3	5	3	8940
6	4	Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury					3	3	5	3	4	8910
3	5	The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee					5	6	4	4	5	8680
19	6	Foot Tapper - The Shadows					6	4	6	6	9	8360
4	7	The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield					7	7	7	7	7	7920
9	8	Island Of Dreams - The Springfields					8	9	8	11	6	7400
11	9	Hey Paula - Paul and Paula					9	11	9	9	8	7090
10	10	Tell Him - Billie Davis					10	13	10	8	10	6730
14	11	One Broken Heart For Sale - Elvis Presley					11	8	13	10	12	6620
7	12	Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan					13	12	11	13	13	6340
15	13	Charmaine - The Bachelors					12	10	15	12	11	6050
8	14	Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan					14	16	12	16	14	5610
12	15	Hava Nagila - The Spotnicks					15	18	14	15	23	4890
13	16	Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers					17	21	16	21	15	4230
23	17	From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller					16	17	22	14	16	4050
26	18	Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades					18	15	23	17	17	3920
16	19	Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon					20	23	17	20	18	3840
28	20	Say Wonderful Things - Ronnie Carroll					19	14	24	18	21	3700
21	21	Cupboard Love - John Leyton					21	20	20	19	22	3620
18	22	Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball					22	22	18	25	20	3480
17	23	All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee					23	25	19	23	19	3160
22	24	Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - Richard Chamberlain					24	24	21	22	24	2860
20	25	Bachelor Boy / The Next Time - Cliff Richard					25	26	25	26	25	1830
NEW	26	Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva					26	28	26	27	26	1400
NEW	27	Brown Eyed Handsome Man - Buddy Holly					27	19		29		1300
NEW	28	Pied Piper - Steve Race					28		27	28	29	810
24	29	Like I Do - Maureen Evans					30=		28		27	570
NEW	30	In Dreams - Roy Orbison					29	27		30	28	540
25		Globetrotter - The Tornados						30	29			400
B		How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers					30=			24		350
X		My Kind Of Girl - Frank Sinatra						29				200
27		A Taste Of Honey - Mr. Acker Bilk							30			150
30		Boss Guitar - Duane Eddy									30	30
29		My Little Girl - The Crickets

[MrTibbs]

Cliff finally captures the #1 position this week but as we all know The Beatles have only commenced their chart campaign.

Another two cracking new entries this week that I still love to this day, Buddy Holly's Brown Eyed Handsome Man, and Roy Orbison's In Dreams. As Cathy McGowan used to say on Ready Steady Go, ' I Think It's Smashing'

[brian05]

My favourite new entry - Gerry and the Pacemakers with How do you do it?
A future no. 1? We shall see.

[MrTibbs]

Yeah if it wasn't for The Beatles it would have been Gerry's year Brian but he was relegated to their shadow.

[Graham76man]

Ironic since if it wasn't for the Beatles, Gerry wouldn't have been signed.

[brian05]

26 Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva

How come this is a double A-side?
Did the flip side make an appearance in any top 50 chart?

[kingofskiffle]

NME (Peak of 28) andPop Weekly Singles (1 wk Peak 30 23 Mar 63)

[Splodj]

Apparently Gerry copied the Beatles arrangement for How Do You Do It rather than that on the acetate demo, so they made a contribution. But Gerry's version is better, mainly because he sounds like he does actually want to sing it!

[MrTibbs]

26 Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva

How come this is a double A-side?
Did the flip side make an appearance in any top 50 chart?

Yeah Brian. Both sides were credited at some point on at least one of the 4 major charts.

[brian05]

In an interview in the Record Mirror on 16th March 1963 Gerry said,



Wonder what happened to that song? Maybe he meant "Hello Little Girl" which was recorded by The Beatles (on Anthology 1) and was later a no. 9 hit for The Fourmost in September 1963. “Hello Little Girl” is the first song ever written by John Lennon, and credited to the Lennon–McCartney song writing partnership. The recording by Gerry & The Pacemakers was not released until the 1991 compilation, The Best of Gerry & the Pacemakers.

[MrTibbs]

I've not heard Gerry's but The Fourmost's version was a really good record.

[brian05]

There is always Spotify! Or YouTube (Gerry and the Pacemakers - Hello Little Girl - YouTube). Alternatively, you can get a 30 second sample on iTunes by listening to The Greatest Beatles Covers.

Fourmost version is best, followed by Gerry, followed by Beatles (used for Decca audition).

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

I think I’ve solved the mystery of the Record Retailer tie-breaker: thanks to Alan Smith, I have finally cracked the code, ha. Plus there are 2 new previously unknown factoids to share.

As we have read, Alan had written up in his several chart articles that RR had broken chart position ties based on the rate of change of sales from the previous week. The record with the largest rate of sales increase would be awarded the higher chart position, the other record would get the lower position.

I had erroneously taken this to mean that if 2 records were tied at say #1 this week, then the #1 would go to the record which was LOWER on the chart last week, because it would thus have a higher rate of change week over week. But that is not what Alan said, or meant to say.

After exchanging 8 emails with Alan over this issue in Aug-Sep 2019, sifting it thru my mind, it finally hit me like a lightning bolt yesterday, and it’s all clear now. Here’s the digest of info from Alan:

--Alan had talked with Norman Bates of RR in about 1999 and learned the following info, as chart compiler Jeremy Wilder alas was no longer available.

--chart compiler Jeremy Wilder and editor Roy Parker devised the ‘countback’ tie-breaker system when realizing that using only up to 30 record shops (Mar 1960 thru Dec 1963) for a Top 50 chart would produce many tied positions.

--the tie-breaker was a 3 step process: after the 30 record shop charts were averaged (added) together, there would typically be at least half a dozen tied positions each week. Jeremy would then call up 1 or 2 of the largest retailers in either London or Liverpool, get the rate of change in sales over the previous week of those tied records, and the record with the largest rate of increase in sales was awarded the higher chart position.

--if records were still tied, then Jeremy would break the tie looking at the sales of the current week.

--if the records were still tied (and this did happen on occasion), then they drew lots! That is new factoid #1. Norman laughed about this, but by publication time, there were no ties. (although Alan says sometimes a tie did leak out)

--BIG PROBLEM: it’s possible that for 2 given tied records across the 30 averaged record shop charts, the record with the larger rate of sales increase week over week at the 1 or 2 largest retailers actually did NOT sell the most copies this week at those 1 or 2 retailers !! Example: let’s say Records X and Y tied at #1 on the average of 30 RR record shop charts. At the largest record shop on RR’s list, let’s say Record X sold 200 copies last week, 250 copies this week. Record Y sold 150 copies last week, and 225 copies this week. Record X thus showed a sales increase of 25%, and Record Y showed a sales increase of 50%. According to this formula, Record Y would get the #1 position, Record X would get the #2, YET RECORD X SOLD MORE COPIES THIS WEEK THAN RECORD Y !! This is totally bogus !!

--factoid #2: Alan says these ties are what delayed RR from being compiled on Mondays as were all the other charts. Jeremy had to spend Tuesdays contacting the record shops for rate of change of sales (or sales) figures in order to break ties and finish the chart. So that secret is now out, amazing!

--to reiterate, the rate of change of sales (or sales) of 1 or 2 shops were used to break chart position ties of the 30 shops averaged together.

So mystery solved! But still, it’s mathematical malpractice to use prior week data to establish a current week chart. Last week was last week, it has nothing to do with this week. Period !!

FYI, when RR went to 80 shops in January 1964, there were much fewer instances of ties, so the chart could be passed onto the BBC sooner, in time for Pick/Top of the Pops.

Thanks Alan !!! Sad to say, I haven’t heard from Alan since Sep 2019, though I’ve sent him 6 emails since then. I do hope he’s well, and still with us…

---

More about the RR ties and errors. Dave Taylor had been in contact with someone who had worked at RR back in the day, who was supplying him with inside chart info and calcs. Dave had posted some of this RR info here on UKMix, and also at other sites, dealing with records that had tied on RR at #1 but were forced into tie-breakers, plus other chart errors. Coincidentally, both Brian and I were in contact with Dave about this at about the same time, but unfortunately Dave’s RR contact person passed away right in the middle of his discussions, sometime in 2012, and the remainder of this info is now apparently lost to history, ugh. Unless Trevor might know something.

Some of what Dave had posted / told us was:

--Please Please Me had indeed tied at #1 for at least 1 week on RR, but lost the tie-breaker

--Likewise for 19th Nervous Breakdown

--the Small Faces “Sha-La-La-La-Lee” should have hit #1 on RR, but due to a math error its chart data got mixed up with Nancy Sinatra’s “Boots”

--there was another instance on RR where Tom Jones got mixed up with Tommy James, on the infamous Aug 31, 1968 chart. This RR error resulted in the 3-way tie at #1 on the BBC average chart, which otherwise would not have happened, and the BBC #1 would have instead gone to The Bee Gees.

Incredibly fascinating, ha…

[MrTibbs]

Robin thanks for this detailed and highly informative piece of research. Your findings are eye opening especially that important chart positions sometimes were decided by drawing lots. All the more interesting given that we are talking about what is the purported 'official' chart. Its yet further evidence of what a joke the RR chart was.

So the UK record industry, the BBC, and the OCC, continue to promote a shambolic thrown together chart using a handful of stores and another week's figures for ties and the toss of a coin to decide on a chart position as the chart of choice for the era. If it wasn't so serious I'd be rolling on the floor in stitches.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers !

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending March 23rd 1963

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending March 23rd 1963								NME	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	100	150	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC			TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Summer Holiday / Dancing Shoes - Cliff Richard					1	1	1	1	1	9900
6	2	Foot Tapper - The Shadows					2	2	2	2	2	9570
3	3	That's What Love Will Do - Joe Brown					3	5	3	3	3	9040
4	4	Like I've Never Been Gone - Billy Fury					4	3	5	4	4	8860
2	5	Please Please Me - The Beatles					5	4	4	5	5	8830
5	6	The Night Has A Thousand Eyes - Bobby Vee					6	9	6	6	6	7950
8	7	Island Of Dreams - The Springfields					7	8	7	7	7	7820
13	8	Charmaine - The Bachelors					8	6	11	9	8	7290
9	9	Hey Paula - Paul and Paula					9	14	8	10	9	6860
17	10	From A Jack To A King - Ned Miller					10	7	14	8	13	6640
7	11	The Wayward Wind - Frank Ifield					11=	13	9	13	10	6630
11	12	One Broken Heart For Sale - Elvis Presley					11=	10	12	11	12	6520
18	13	Rhythm Of The Rain - The Cascades					13	11	13	12	14	6160
10	14	Tell Him - Billie Davis					14	16	10	14	11	6100
20	15	Say Wonderful Things - Ronnie Carroll					15	14	15	16	16	5300
27	16	Brown Eyed Handsome Man - Buddy Holly					16	12	19	17	19	4760
12	17	Loop-De-Loop - Frankie Vaughan					17	19	17	18	15	4430
14	18	Diamonds - Jet Harris and Tony Meehan					19	23	16	22	18	3890
21	19	Cupboard Love - John Leyton					20	21	18	19	22	3820
NEW	20	How Do You Do It - Gerry and The Pacemakers					18	17	24	15	20	3580
26	21	Let's Turkey Trot / Old Smokey Locomation - Little Eva					22	20	22	26	21	3000
16	22	Walk Right In - The Rooftop Singers					21	26	20	23	17	2970
15	23	Hava Nagila - The Spotnicks					23		21	20	27	2170
24	24	Hi-Lili Hi-Lo - Richard Chamberlain					24	25	25	27	24	1910
NEW	25	Robot - The Tornados					25=	18		25		1600
30	26	In Dreams - Roy Orbison					27=	23	27		25	1580
23	27	All Alone Am I - Brenda Lee					27=		23	29	23	1540
NEW	28	The Folk Singer - Tommy Roe					25=	22		21		1400
22	29	Sukiyaki - Kenny Ball					29		26		26	900
19	30	Little Town Flirt - Del Shannon					30=		28	30	28	590
		Old Smokey Locomotion - Little Eva						29
B		So It Will Always Be - The Everly Brothers						26				500
B		Mr Bass Man - Johnny Cymbal					30=			24		350
28		Pied Piper - Steve Race							29		30	330
X		Good Golly Miss Molly - Jerry Lee Lewis						28				300
B		The End Of The World - Skeeter Davis								28	29	210
25		The Next Time / Bachelor Boy - Cliff Richard							30			150
B		Count On Me - Julie Grant						30				100
29		Like I Do - Maureen Evans