The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[Graham76man]

We only won in 1966 because Lonnie Donegan sang the song. If they make that a re-release for the next World Cup then we will win. Stands to reason….

From what I have seen it was more to do with football politics and how the rules were interpreted that England won in 1966. With the technology of today's game they probably wouldn't have won.

[Graham76man]

Which makes Dana a BMRB-only number one and, in my view, their most suspicious. Perhaps it sold extremely well in a minority of stores.

That's BS and you know it is! In fact BMRB were a week late in getting Dana top and a week slower getting shut of her from. The higher numbers of the BMRB chart would have been selling all across the board. And BMRB were obsessed with it being a "National" chart. To back this up the Real Chart numbers were 5 April Dana 185K S&G 176K 12 April Dana 191K S&G 155K 19 April Norman 137K Dana 135K.
So unless you know the full figures either Dana or Norman could have been top it was that close.

[kingofskiffle]

Football fever breaks out as the England World Cup Squad '70 make the charts with the first in a series of dreadful football songs that will accompany every major tournament. Sadly England will fail to qualify for the 1974 and 1978 finals but at least we will be spared awful football songs (though the Scots will released awful songs instead).

We only won in 1966 because Lonnie Donegan sang the song. If they make that a re-release for the next World Cup then we will win. Stands to reason….

[Splodj]

This week NME and MM are ahead with a future BMRB #1.

Which makes Dana a BMRB-only number one and, in my view, their most suspicious. Perhaps it sold extremely well in a minority of stores.

[Robbie]

Football fever breaks out as the England World Cup Squad '70 make the charts with the first in a series of dreadful football songs that will accompany every major tournament. Sadly England will fail to qualify for the 1974 and 1978 finals but at least we will be spared awful football songs (though the Scots will released awful songs instead).

[MrTibbs]

This week NME and MM are ahead with a future BMRB #1. They both place him at the top this week with BMRB following next week.

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 25th 1970

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders ''

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 25th 1970							NME	MM	BMRB	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	200	250	125	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
3	1	Spirit In The Sky - Norman Greenbaum					1	1	2	17125
2	2	All Kinds Of Everything - Dana					2	3	1	16550
1	3	Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon and Garfunkel					3	2	3	16350
4	4	Can't Help Falling In Love - Andy Williams					4	5	4	15275
7	5	Gimme Dat Ding - The Pipkins					5	4	6	15075
5	6	Knock Knock Who's There - Mary Hopkin					6	6	5	14500
6	7	Young Gifted And Black - Bob and Marcia					7	7	7	13800
12	8	Farewell Is A Lonely Sound - Jimmy Ruffin					9	8	9	12900
16	9	Never Had A Dream Come True - Stevie Wonder					8	10	8	12725
13	10	When Julie Comes Around - The Cuff Links					10	9	12	12075
11	11	I Can't Help Myself - The Four Tops					11	11	11	11500
19	12	Travellin' Band - Creedence Clearwater Revival					12	12	15	10550
17	13	Good Morning Freedom - Blue Mink					13	16	10	9975
8	14	Wand'rin Star - Lee Marvin					14	15	13	9650
9	15	Something's Burning - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition					16	13	18	9125
15	16	Who Do You Love - Juicy Lucy					17	14	20	8425
10	17	That Same Old Feeling - Pickettywitch					15	17	19	8200
23	18	House Of The Rising Sun - Frijid Pink					18	18	14	7975
26	19	Rag Mama Rag - The Band					20	19	16	7075
18	20	You're Such A Good Looking Woman - Joe Dolan					23	21	21	5350
NEW	21	Back Home - The England World Cup Squad '70					21	22	23	5250
30	22	Daughter Of Darkness - Tom Jones					24	23	17	5150
14	23	Let It Be - The Beatles					26	20	26	4375
29	24	The Seeker - The Who					21	25	28	3875
28	25	Do The Funky Chicken - Rufus Thomas					19	28	30	3275
20	26	Don't Cry Daddy - Elvis Presley					28	24	25	3100
NEW	27	I Don't Believe In If Anymore - Roger Whittaker					27	29	22	2425
24	28	Govinda - The Radha Krishna Temple					30	27	24	2075
21	29	Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye - Steam						26	29	1500
NEW	30	I've Got You On My Mind - White Plains					25	30		1450
B		I Can't tell The Bottom From The Top - The Hollies							27	500
B		Brontosaurus - The Move					29			400
22		Everybody Get Together - The Dave Clark Five
25		I Want You Back - The Jackson Five
27		Years May Come Years May Go - Herman's Hermits

[Splodj]

The origin of the tune's name is rather rude ...
https://andyalmsley.blogspot.com/2020/07/60-years-of-swinging-cymbals.html

[Graham76man]

One handicap of using other people's chart to make up a chart is that you don't get the records that these charts missed out on. Many of them having a great deal of exposure in the music press or on TV. For example At 21 that week was Elton John - Border Song. And at 20 Slade - Shape of Things to Come. Both of these were all over the TV and they didn't go near any other chart.
The next week's chart will see Alan Freeman's chart show tune enter again. But it will not get any higher than 78 spending five weeks in the 100. I suppose the reason it never sells big is that although people know the tune from his chart show, nobody knew what to ask for!
I suspect that many would recognise it, but asked to name what it was called, they wouldn't have a clue.

[MrTibbs]

Strangely though both MM and NME are ahead of the game with Norman Greenbaum, they have it at #3 and BMRB at #5.
Tom Jones will go top ten with Daughter Of Darkness but then have to wait until late 1971 before he reaches the top ten again. His next few releases will make the top twenty and peak in the middle ten.

Polly Brown lead singer with Pickettywitch was a hugely undervalued singer. She was worthy of so much more popularity than she achieved but I loved all the Pickettywitch singles showcasing her voice.

Creedence are spot on with Travellin' Band, and I bought the Steam single months before it charted here.

[Graham76man]

For the above chart Dana sold 191,000 S&G 155,000, yet two charts have the top seller wrong, should that be three out of Four?

[kingofskiffle]

I like Dana’s song - wonder if it will make 1 on the Ultimate chart? Again it does show the BMRB to be ‘ahead” of the others in a slow Top 30 this week (1 new entry).

[MrTibbs]

Greetings Pop Pickers

Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 18th 1970

Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders ''

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 18th 1970							NME	MM	BMRB	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey			Stores	200	250	125	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart					TOP	30	Scored
1	1	Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon and Garfunkel					1	1	2	17125
5	2	All Kinds Of Everything - Dana					2	2	1	16800
7	3	Spirit In The Sky - Norman Greenbaum					3	3	5	15850
2	4	Can't Help Falling In Love - Andy Williams					4	4	3	15650
3	5	Knock Knock Who's There - Mary Hopkin					5	5	4	15075
4	6	Young Gifted And Black - Bob and Marcia					6	6	7	14250
13	7	Gimme Dat Ding - The Pipkins					7	7	6	13925
6	8	Wand'rin Star - Lee Marvin					10	8	8	12825
9	9	Something's Burning - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition					8	9	15	12100
8	10	That Same Old Feeling - Pickettywitch					9	11	11	11900
12	11	I Can't Help Myself - The Four Tops					11	10	10	11875
11	12	Farewell Is A Lonely Sound - Jimmy Ruffin					12	12	9	11300
20	13	When Julie Comes Around - The Cuff Links					14	14	12	10025
10	14	Let It Be - The Beatles					13	13	16	9975
19	15	Who Do You Love - Juicy Lucy					15	15	14	9325
21	16	Never Had A Dream Come True - Stevie Wonder					18	16	13	8600
23	17	Good Morning Freedom - Blue Mink					16	17	18	8125
17	18	You're Such A Good Looking Woman - Joe Dolan					17	18	17	7800
24	19	Travellin' Band - Creedence Clearwater Revival					19	19	19	6900
15	20	Don't Cry Daddy - Elvis Presley					20	21	20	6075
14	21	Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye - Steam					21	20	22	5875
16	22	Everybody Get Together - The Dave Clark Five					22	22	23	5050
26	23	House Of The Rising Sun - Frijid Pink					24	24	21	4400
NEW	24	Govinda - The Radha Krishna Temple					25	26	29	2700
18	25	I Want You Back - The Jackson Five					29	23	30	2525
30	26	Rag Mama Rag - The Band						25	25	2250
22	27	Years May Come Years May Go - Herman's Hermits						27	24	1875
NEW	28	Do The Funky Chicken - Rufus Thomas					23			1600
NEW	29	The Seeker - The Who					27	29		1300
NEW	30	Daughter Of Darkness - Tom Jones					26			1000
29		Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head - Sacha Distel						28		750
B		Back Home - The England World Cup Squad '70							26	625
		Why ( Must We Fall In Love) - Diana Ross and The Supremes and the Temptations					28			600
B		I've Got You On My Mind - White Plains							27	500
28		I'll Go On Hoping - Des O'Connor					29			400
B		I Don't Believe In If Anymore - Roger Whittaker							28	375
25		Let's Work Together - Canned Heat						30		250
27		Instant Karma - Lennon/Ono and The Plastic Ono Band

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

I just discovered on facebook (thanks Pete Seaton) that the WorldRadioHistory.com site has an update page, whereby you can see what historical music magazines (and otherwise) have been added to the archive, and when. Bookmark it, and check it often !! Go here:

https://worldradiohistory.com/A-Worl...ry-Updates.htm

[Graham76man]

Two Little Boys still no. 30 on BMRB chart. Hopefully this will be the last week!

After 5 weeks The Beatles Let It Be is awarded a Silver Disc for 250,000 sales.

Also, after 7 weeks Bridge Over Troubled Water was awarded a Silver Disc for 250,000 sales.

That must have been on sales in the 300 shops only of BMRB, for by the 12 April 1970 S&G had sold over a million and the Beatles 697,000.

[MrTibbs]

Youse guys are talking about 2 different David Armstrong books. The one 'membranemusic' is referring to, British Music Charts Vol 1 1947-59, is a sheet music charts book. The one Graham is referring to, Pick of the Pops 1957-69, is the BBC record charts, data pinched from Dave Taylor/Trevor Ager.

David Armstrong is not a reputable author. He did no research of his own on any of his books and as Robin correctly asserts he simply pinched data from other contributors like Trevor and Dave and quickly cobbled together his books. The POTP one is riddled with errors and I don't mean occasional ones, and the sheet music one has charts missing from 1955. He won't publish any more books, he did a quick hit and run and then vanished.

[brian05]

I imagine the printer paper was similar to that used in businesses up and down the country, the green and white type that can be seen by clicking on https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/xXRez...-45506-a_1.jpg

Great picture - brings back memories of University days using punched cards and getting printouts on such paper.

[brian05]

Two Little Boys still no. 30 on BMRB chart. Hopefully this will be the last week!

After 5 weeks The Beatles Let It Be is awarded a Silver Disc for 250,000 sales.

Also, after 7 weeks Bridge Over Troubled Water was awarded a Silver Disc for 250,000 sales.

[RokinRobinOfLocksley]

Youse guys are talking about 2 different David Armstrong books. The one 'membranemusic' is referring to, British Music Charts Vol 1 1947-59, is a sheet music charts book. The one Graham is referring to, Pick of the Pops 1957-69, is the BBC record charts, data pinched from Dave Taylor/Trevor Ager.

[Graham76man]

^

The book by David Armstrong you mentioned is from 2011. If volume 2 has yet to appear after a decade it suggests it isn't likely to do so.

The David Armstrong book is not very good. When I got it I told Dave Taylor I had it, he was mad! He said that much of the information in the book was pinched from him and not only that he messed it up! So Dave supplied me with a file of the charts.

[Graham76man]

This wording is similar to what NME told The Sun reporters in 1964. They emphasised the 300 figure, which was simply the list of shops they had an arrangement with, and kept quiet about the number of shops they actually phoned. If their team of 6 phoned 25 each, the actual survey total was 150.

Keeping quite didn't work, the NME had a lot of hyped records in the charts they produced. Especially the new entries. The team itself would have been under massive pressure from the record labels with plenty of cash flowing. It would be interesting to see how many staff changes there were on the team. But such things are naturally not available to the public, even if the NME records were stored somewhere. Most archives have 100 year rules to protect living people. That NME book does confirm they had 150 shops on the books by 1967.

[Robbie]

^
a new thread has already been started which will address some of the points you raised https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...-december-1939

the sheet music charts up to the 1960s are already available elsewhere so MrTibbs decided not to post them as it would be duplicating what is out there.

The book by David Armstrong you mentioned is from 2011. If volume 2 has yet to appear after a decade it suggests it isn't likely to do so.

[membranemusic]

Hello
Re: sheet music charts - sorry, a brief diversion away from the terrific UAC again.

I would love to share my MPA sheet music files. However there one or two issues that we should check before we start a new thread.

Firstly, checking files in my loft, I notice there are some omissions, notably the whole of 1981 when it went monthly, so apologies for that.

Back in the 1980s I requested permission from the MPA to collate and publish these charts in a book. However this was politely refused, on the basis that permission had already been given for such a book. This turned out to be “First Hits” by Brian Henson and Colin Morgan, which I thoroughly recommend, but which might be hard to find now.

Since then author-compiler David Armstrong has published “British Music Charts Volume 1: 1947-1959”, which is readily available, and is a straightforward no-frills listing. Therefore there is no need to post the charts from 1947 to 1959.
The author clearly states his ambition to prepare a Volume 2, and maybe a Volume 3. If he is close to completion on this project, I would not want to rain on his parade. Does anybody have a contact detail for this author, so we can ask?

Also, I notice that the OCC do not slap takedowns on the facebook charts thread, because all the reproduced OCC charts there are for 1 week only, and would arguably be deemed as “fair use” in a journalistic/commentary forum. However, the MPA remains a fully functioning organisation that may have a different point of view if they spot a full chronological listing of their data, as opposed to the odd chart. That is why I suggested help in “filling in the gaps”, which arguably would be “fair use”.

Also, these charts are hard copies and not scanned yet. It will take a little time to scan several years’ worth. And be prepared for the abundance of show tunes, TV themes and other songs never released on a 45rpm record!

Incidentally, this was not the last of UK music publisher charts. The OCC published a weekly ringtones chart from October 2005 to December 2006, comprising slot-machine-sound renditions of top tunes, to which not one artist or record label contributed anything. Needless to say, the record business wanted to be involved and obliged realtones availability from their artists, sales of which were collated within the OCC singles chart. So it was nasty while it lasted. You won’t find ringtones on the OCC website archive though. Funny that.

So, your thoughts please on seeing if we can locate the author David Armstrong.

[Splodj]

duplicate

[Splodj]

compiled ... from a panel of 300 record shops

This wording is similar to what NME told The Sun reporters in 1964. They emphasised the 300 figure, which was simply the list of shops they had an arrangement with, and kept quiet about the number of shops they actually phoned. If their team of 6 phoned 25 each, the actual survey total was 150.