The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

[Splodj]

I tend to use it when there's a lot more posts have been written and the subject matter appears to have died,

If a lot more posts have been written the comment is more likely to be missed. I have seen some of your comments only weeks later when I happened to be looking back at an old page. I think the best way of replying is in a new post, with the bit you are replying to quoted at the top.

[Metalweb]

^

According to Nanda Lwin's Canadian Chart Book Elton's single spent a total of 45 (non-consecutive) weeks at No.1 on the SoundScan Top 200 singles chart (beginning on 21/9/97).

[Gambo]

Talking about the longest running number one, the original version of 'Bambino' by Dalida spent 45 weeks at number one in France. A world record?

The Springfield's were soon to become the first British group to make the Billboard Top 20 with 'Silver threads and golden needles' which appears to have flopped in the UK.

Sounds likely although I remember reading around the turn of the century that Elton John's re-recorded 'Candle In The Wind' to mark the Princess of Wales' passing had racked up 45 weeks at No 1 in Canada druing 1997-'99! I have not checked this so don't know if it was correct, whether it was using Canada's official chart, whether it was consecutive or aggregated, etc. But if it is, it would at least match the tenure of 'Bambino' in France.

[Robbie]

I tend to use it when there's a lot more posts have been written and the subject matter appears to have died, I assume that site supporters can't comment on their own posts, hence why Robbie in that instance couldn't comment.

I can comment on my own post (I've just tried it, I didn't even think of doing that to be honest!) but I don't know if it sends a notification to yourself. I'm assuming it doesn't, in which case you wouldn't know I had replied to your comment.

[Robbie]

Test

[Graham76man]

Yeah I deliberately choose not to use it for the very reason Robbie mentions above, that you cannot use the comment as a quote to expand on a topic.

I tend to use it when there's a lot more posts have been written and the subject matter appears to have died, I assume that site supporters can't comment on their own posts, hence why Robbie in that instance couldn't comment.

Having just posted this post, I find that my last statement to be incorrect, as the comment option does appear on my own posts. This means that you could add a comment to somebody else's comment, you just need to add something like: "re:name" to the comment as it won't let you quote directly. If you can't comment and you are allowed, then contact UKMIX and report a fault.

[Splodj]

Talking about the longest running number one, the original version of 'Bambino' by Dalida spent 45 weeks at number one in France. A world record?

The Springfield's were soon to become the first British group to make the Billboard Top 20 with 'Silver threads and golden needles' which appears to have flopped in the UK.

[MrTibbs]

Jimmy Crawford charts with I Love How You Love Me while the superior Paris Sisters original is ignored here

[MrTibbs]

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 9th 1961

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 9th 1961								NME	RM	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	80	60	110	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC				TOP	30	Scored
3	1	Tower Of Strength - Frankie Vaughan					1	1	1	1	1	1	9900
2	2	Take Good Care Of My Baby - Bobby Vee					2	3	2	2	2	4	9430
1	3	His Latest Flame / Little Sister - Elvis Presley					3=	4	3	3	3	2	9190
5	4	Moon River - Danny Williams					3=	2	4	4	4	5	9040
4	5	Big Bad John - Jimmy Dean					5	6	6	5	5	3	8500
6	6	The Time Has Come - Adam Faith					6	10	5	6	6	6	7990
8	7	Take Five - Dave Brubeck					8	5	7	8	10	8	7790
7	8	Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro					7	9	8	7	7	7	7700
11	9	Midnight In Moscow - Kenny Ball					9	8	10	10	8	9	7220
13	10	I'll Get By - Shirley Bassey					10	7	9	11	11	10	7070
9	11	The Savage - The Shadows					11	12	11	9	9	11	6840
18	12	Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk					12	11	13	14	12	16	5950
24	13	You're The Only Good Thing - Jim Reeves					14	15	12	19	14	19	4950
12	14	Runaround Sue - Dion					13	13		13	13	13	4860
14	15	Hit The Road Jack - Ray Charles					15	18	18	16	16	17	4640
10	16	When The Girl In Your Arms Is The Girl In Your Heart / Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard					17	24	16	12		12	4120
15	17	Mexicali Rose - Karl Denver					19	20		18	17	14	3520
21	18	My Friend The Sea - Petula Clark					16	25		17	15	15	3300
NEW	19	Johnny Will - Pat Boone						17	15	20			3290
NEW	20	So Long Baby - Del Shannon					18	21		15	19		3160
NEW	21	Charleston - The Temperance Seven						16	14				2220
NEW	22	Toy Balloons - Russ Conway						23	17				1480
NEW	23	I Cried For You - Ricky Stevens					20	14					1360
NEW	24	I Love How You Love Me - Jimmy Crawford						28			20	18	1180
26	25	Don't Bring Lulu - Dorothy Provine						18					1040
NEW	26	Let True Love Begin - Nat King Cole						28	19				960
RE	27	Everlovin' - Ricky Nelson							20			23	900
23	28	I'm A Moody Guy - Shane Fenton and The Fentones									18	25	830
17	29	You Must Have Been A Beatiful Baby - Bobby Darin						22				28	810
NEW	30	Bambino - The Springfields						27				20	650
		Moon River - Henry Mancini						25					480
		Sucu Sucu - Laurie Johnson										21	300
		This Time - Troy Shondell										22	270
		Tall Dark Stranger - Rose Brennan						28					240
		Let's Get Together - Hayley Mills										24	210
		Creole Jazz / Stars And Stripes - Mr. Acker Bilk										26	150
		Wild Wind - John Leyton										27	120
		I Understand - The G-Clefs										29	60
		Bless You - Tony Orlando										30	30

[MrTibbs]

Until Acker Bilk, Frankie Laine held the record for consecutive week chart residency, 36 weeks for I Believe in 1953, Only NME of course compiled a record chart at that time and it was only a Top 12 with much less competition.

Still to date, I Believe is the all time record holder for weeks at the top of the singles chart. 18 weeks. A few have got within striking distance but fell at the last hurdle. It was in 3 runs at the top though, 9 weeks, 6 weeks, and 3 weeks.

[MrTibbs]

Yeah I deliberately choose not to use it for the very reason Robbie mentions above, that you cannot use the comment as a quote to expand on a topic.

[InFamous]

^

I thought the Comments feature had been withdrawn anyway?

Site supporters can use it. Although Wayne did say it should be only sparingly.

[Metalweb]

^

I thought the Comments feature had been withdrawn anyway?

[Robbie]

Graham76man commented
Today, 11:21

I think you are forgetting Frank and My Way which unlike Acker is still selling these days.

I posted "The chart run of 'Stranger On The Shore' is amazing. Its chart longevity not only dwarfs anything that had gone before but also, at least until the digital era, most of what came afterwards." for the very reason that I had remembered 'My Way'.

(as a side note, this is the worst thing about the Comments feature, it's not possible to directly reply to a comment)

[Splodj]

That was the BBC rule effectively - odd-one-out rather than majority. But as you set out the points it is easy to see on your charts which has the most anyway. I think it is telling that even with RR having it at 5 Vee gets most points (just).

The BBC did not only invoke their rule for the Beatles up to 'Help'. They also used it for 'House of the RIsing Sun' and 'The Last Time', when in both cases RR had them at number 6. With the Beatles, the rule stopped RR preventing the records entering at number one. With the other two, the rule stopped RR preventing the records climb to number one after entering.

[MrTibbs]

Ironically Acker was in the same position as many of The Beatles singles later, #1 in all charts except RR, surprise surprise.

With regard to Bobby Vee, its the same situation as The Temperance Seven, Helen Shapiro, The Monkees, Barry Ryan to name a few among others, all qualified for #1 on points but lost out in the 3 point rule. For these records I'm still torn as to what was right, maybe what I should have done at the start of this is to go by points entirely as the fairer method with the only exception being where a record is #1 in ALL charts except one, and discount the single outlier.

[Splodj]

Thanks Brian. On reflection I think Acker is a clearer cut case than Bobby. Did he sneak in while Elvis was on the wane? Difficult to tell.

NME doesn't help because its positions are also out of kilter with the consensus. However their 'ahead of the game' reputation can explain their differences - with Vaughan and Williams (the risers) being higher and Presley and Dean (the fallers) being lower. Whereas the 'behind the game' reputation of RR cannot really explain Vee at 5.

[MrTibbs]

RR bias against Bobbie Vee is preventing him from being number one in the Ultimate.

A similar thing will happen with Acker. On the week 'Stranger on the shore' goes to number one on the others it falls back to 8 in RR. Although the 3 point rule may save it in the Ultimate. RR then have it spring back to number 2 for 3 straight weeks, but it is too late to be top because of Cliff's entry at number one.

The BBC may have thought that on both occasions they were lucky not to be including RR.

As you know I work ahead to ensure I can post a new chart every day, so I am able to give you some immediate confirmation and indeed reassurance on this. On 6th January 1962 Mr. Acker Bilk will succeed in achieving #1 status despite RR placing him at #8 that week.
He does not even need the 3 point rule as he will achieve it outright on 9690 points with nearest competitor Danny Williams on 9390.
Acker that week holds #1 on all other 4 charts which comfortably throws out the RR outlier.

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending January 6th 1962								NME	RM	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	80	60	110	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC				TOP	30	Scored
3	1	Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk					1	1	1	1	1	8	9690
1	2	Moon River - Danny Williams					2=	2	2	3	4	1	9390

But yes the following week he will lose out to Cliff entering at No 1.

[Graham76man]

I think you are forgetting Frank and My Way which unlike Acker is still selling these days.

[Splodj]

RR bias against Bobbie Vee is preventing him from being number one in the Ultimate.

A similar thing will happen with Acker. On the week 'Stranger on the shore' goes to number one on the others it falls back to 8 in RR. Although the 3 point rule may save it in the Ultimate. RR then have it spring back to number 2 for 3 straight weeks, but it is too late to be top because of Cliff's entry at number one.

The BBC may have thought that on both occasions they were lucky not to be including RR.

[Robbie]

The chart run of 'Stranger On The Shore' is amazing. Its chart longevity not only dwarfs anything that had gone before but also, at least until the digital era, most of what came afterwards.

[MrTibbs]

A future monster record debuts this week, Mr. Acker Bilks' Stranger On The Shore. Its chart longevity will dwarf anything that has gone before.

[MrTibbs]

Here is the next Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending December 2nd 1961

The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending December 2nd 1961								NME	RM	MM	DISC	RR	Total
Last	This		The Sound Survey				Stores	80	60	110	50	30	Points
Week	Week		The Top 30 Singles Chart				BBC				TOP	30	Scored
1	1	His Latest Flame / Little Sister - Elvis Presley*					2	4	2	1	1	1	9600
2	2	Take Good Care Of My Baby - Bobby Vee					1	1	1	2	2	5	9620
5	3	Tower Of Strength - Frankie Vaughan					3	1	4	3	4	2	9320
3	4	Big Bad John - Jimmy Dean					4	5	3	4	3	3	8970
7	5	Moon River - Danny Williams					5	3	5	5	5	6	8710
6	6	The Time Has Come - Adam Faith					6=	6	6	6	8	7	8120
4	7	Walkin' Back To Happiness - Helen Shapiro					6=	7	7	7	6	4	8060
8	8	Take Five - Dave Brubeck					8	8	8	9	9	9	7400
10	9	The Savage - The Shadows					9	12	9	8	7	10	7200
9	10	When The Girl In Your Arms Is The Girl In Your Heart / Got A Funny Feeling - Cliff Richard					11=	13	11	10	11	8	6640
13	11	Midnight In Moscow - Kenny Ball					10	9	12	11	12	13	6590
12	12	Runaround Sue - Dion					11=	11	13	13	10	11	6310
16	13	I'll Get By - Shirley Bassey					13	10	10	12	15	16	6280
11	14	Hit The Road Jack - Ray Charles					14	14	15	14	13	12	5660
14	15	Mexicali Rose - Karl Denver					15	15	16	15	16	14	5200
21	16	Let's Get Together - Hayley Mills					17	19		17	18	21	3450
20	17	You Must Have Been A Beatiful Baby - Bobby Darin					18	16		18		19	2990
NEW	18	Stranger On The Shore - Mr. Acker Bilk						22	18	19			2820
26	19	This Time - Troy Shondell					20=	17	14			23	2380
15	20	Sucu Sucu - Laurie Johnson					16	18			14	15	2370
28	21	My Friend The Sea - Petula Clark					19	25		16		25	2310
19	22	Married - The Brook Brothers							19	20			1930
22	23	I'm A Moody Guy - Shane Fenton and The Fentones					20=	23			17	24	1550
NEW	24	You're The Only Good Thing - Jim Reeves						24			19	22	1430
17	25	Wild Wind - John Leyton									20	17	970
25	26	Moon River - Henry Mancini						20					880
NEW	26	Don't Bring Lulu - Dorothy Provine						20					880
NEW	28	September In The Rain - Dinah Washington							17				840
27	29	Fool No 1 - Brenda Lee							20				660
18	30	Bless You - Tony Orlando						28				20	570
		* 3 Point Rule applied
		I Cried For You - Ricky Stevens						25					480
		You'll Answer To Me - Cleo Laine										18	390
		Helen (EP) - Helen Shapiro						27					320
		Charleston - The Temperance Seven						29					160
		My Boomerang Won't Come Back - Charlie Drake										26	150
		Susu Sucu - Nina and Frederick										27	120
		Creole Jazz / Stars And Stripes - Mr. Acker Bilk										28	90
		Jeannie Jeannie Jeannie - Eddie Cochran						30					80
		Let True Love Begin - Nat King Cole										29	60
		I Love How You Love Me - Jimmy Crawford										30	30

[MrTibbs]

[QUOTE=Splodj

PS – RRs low placing of Bobby Vee each week looks like they have something against him![/QUOTE]

I think that's a really valid point. Looking back the weeks since Bobby Vee charted with Take Good Care RR has consistently placed it considerably lower than every other chart. It really is a great injustice.

[Splodj]

Recordings of POTP from the Trad Tavern period are extremely rare, but here is one from this week’s show ...
https://www.mixcloud.com/terry-obrien2/pick-of-the-pops-1961-11-25-alan-freeman-33-mins-from-the-live-trad-tavern-show/

PS – RRs low placing of Bobby Vee each week looks like they have something against him!