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The Ultimate Averaged Chart - The BBC Chart Re-Imagined

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  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
    We only won in 1966 because Lonnie Donegan sang the song. If they make that a re-release for the next World Cup then we will win. Stands to reason….
    From what I have seen it was more to do with football politics and how the rules were interpreted that England won in 1966. With the technology of today's game they probably wouldn't have won.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post

    Which makes Dana a BMRB-only number one and, in my view, their most suspicious. Perhaps it sold extremely well in a minority of stores.
    That's BS and you know it is! In fact BMRB were a week late in getting Dana top and a week slower getting shut of her from. The higher numbers of the BMRB chart would have been selling all across the board. And BMRB were obsessed with it being a "National" chart. To back this up the Real Chart numbers were 5 April Dana 185K S&G 176K 12 April Dana 191K S&G 155K 19 April Norman 137K Dana 135K.
    So unless you know the full figures either Dana or Norman could have been top it was that close.

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    Football fever breaks out as the England World Cup Squad '70 make the charts with the first in a series of dreadful football songs that will accompany every major tournament. Sadly England will fail to qualify for the 1974 and 1978 finals but at least we will be spared awful football songs (though the Scots will released awful songs instead).
    We only won in 1966 because Lonnie Donegan sang the song. If they make that a re-release for the next World Cup then we will win. Stands to reason….

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    This week NME and MM are ahead with a future BMRB #1.
    Which makes Dana a BMRB-only number one and, in my view, their most suspicious. Perhaps it sold extremely well in a minority of stores.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    Football fever breaks out as the England World Cup Squad '70 make the charts with the first in a series of dreadful football songs that will accompany every major tournament. Sadly England will fail to qualify for the 1974 and 1978 finals but at least we will be spared awful football songs (though the Scots will released awful songs instead).

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    This week NME and MM are ahead with a future BMRB #1. They both place him at the top this week with BMRB following next week.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 25th 1970

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders ''

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 25th 1970 NME MM BMRB Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 125 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    3 1 Spirit In The Sky - Norman Greenbaum 1 1 2 17125
    2 2 All Kinds Of Everything - Dana 2 3 1 16550
    1 3 Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon and Garfunkel 3 2 3 16350
    4 4 Can't Help Falling In Love - Andy Williams 4 5 4 15275
    7 5 Gimme Dat Ding - The Pipkins 5 4 6 15075
    5 6 Knock Knock Who's There - Mary Hopkin 6 6 5 14500
    6 7 Young Gifted And Black - Bob and Marcia 7 7 7 13800
    12 8 Farewell Is A Lonely Sound - Jimmy Ruffin 9 8 9 12900
    16 9 Never Had A Dream Come True - Stevie Wonder 8 10 8 12725
    13 10 When Julie Comes Around - The Cuff Links 10 9 12 12075
    11 11 I Can't Help Myself - The Four Tops 11 11 11 11500
    19 12 Travellin' Band - Creedence Clearwater Revival 12 12 15 10550
    17 13 Good Morning Freedom - Blue Mink 13 16 10 9975
    8 14 Wand'rin Star - Lee Marvin 14 15 13 9650
    9 15 Something's Burning - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition 16 13 18 9125
    15 16 Who Do You Love - Juicy Lucy 17 14 20 8425
    10 17 That Same Old Feeling - Pickettywitch 15 17 19 8200
    23 18 House Of The Rising Sun - Frijid Pink 18 18 14 7975
    26 19 Rag Mama Rag - The Band 20 19 16 7075
    18 20 You're Such A Good Looking Woman - Joe Dolan 23 21 21 5350
    NEW 21 Back Home - The England World Cup Squad '70 21 22 23 5250
    30 22 Daughter Of Darkness - Tom Jones 24 23 17 5150
    14 23 Let It Be - The Beatles 26 20 26 4375
    29 24 The Seeker - The Who 21 25 28 3875
    28 25 Do The Funky Chicken - Rufus Thomas 19 28 30 3275
    20 26 Don't Cry Daddy - Elvis Presley 28 24 25 3100
    NEW 27 I Don't Believe In If Anymore - Roger Whittaker 27 29 22 2425
    24 28 Govinda - The Radha Krishna Temple 30 27 24 2075
    21 29 Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye - Steam 26 29 1500
    NEW 30 I've Got You On My Mind - White Plains 25 30 1450
    B I Can't tell The Bottom From The Top - The Hollies 27 500
    B Brontosaurus - The Move 29 400
    22 Everybody Get Together - The Dave Clark Five
    25 I Want You Back - The Jackson Five
    27 Years May Come Years May Go - Herman's Hermits

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    The origin of the tune's name is rather rude ...
    https://andyalmsley.blogspot.com/2020/07/60-years-of-swinging-cymbals.html

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    One handicap of using other people's chart to make up a chart is that you don't get the records that these charts missed out on. Many of them having a great deal of exposure in the music press or on TV. For example At 21 that week was Elton John - Border Song. And at 20 Slade - Shape of Things to Come. Both of these were all over the TV and they didn't go near any other chart.
    The next week's chart will see Alan Freeman's chart show tune enter again. But it will not get any higher than 78 spending five weeks in the 100. I suppose the reason it never sells big is that although people know the tune from his chart show, nobody knew what to ask for!
    I suspect that many would recognise it, but asked to name what it was called, they wouldn't have a clue.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Strangely though both MM and NME are ahead of the game with Norman Greenbaum, they have it at #3 and BMRB at #5.
    Tom Jones will go top ten with Daughter Of Darkness but then have to wait until late 1971 before he reaches the top ten again. His next few releases will make the top twenty and peak in the middle ten.

    Polly Brown lead singer with Pickettywitch was a hugely undervalued singer. She was worthy of so much more popularity than she achieved but I loved all the Pickettywitch singles showcasing her voice.

    Creedence are spot on with Travellin' Band, and I bought the Steam single months before it charted here.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    For the above chart Dana sold 191,000 S&G 155,000, yet two charts have the top seller wrong, should that be three out of Four?

    Leave a comment:


  • kingofskiffle
    replied
    I like Dana’s song - wonder if it will make 1 on the Ultimate chart? Again it does show the BMRB to be ‘ahead” of the others in a slow Top 30 this week (1 new entry).

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Greetings Pop Pickers

    Here is the Ultimate Averaged Chart for Week Ending April 18th 1970

    Here are all '' the uppers, the downers, the just hanging 'arounders ''

    The Ultimate Averaged Chart - Week Ending April 18th 1970 NME MM BMRB Total
    Last This The Sound Survey Stores 200 250 125 Points
    Week Week The Top 30 Singles Chart TOP 30 Scored
    1 1 Bridge Over Troubled Water - Simon and Garfunkel 1 1 2 17125
    5 2 All Kinds Of Everything - Dana 2 2 1 16800
    7 3 Spirit In The Sky - Norman Greenbaum 3 3 5 15850
    2 4 Can't Help Falling In Love - Andy Williams 4 4 3 15650
    3 5 Knock Knock Who's There - Mary Hopkin 5 5 4 15075
    4 6 Young Gifted And Black - Bob and Marcia 6 6 7 14250
    13 7 Gimme Dat Ding - The Pipkins 7 7 6 13925
    6 8 Wand'rin Star - Lee Marvin 10 8 8 12825
    9 9 Something's Burning - Kenny Rogers and The First Edition 8 9 15 12100
    8 10 That Same Old Feeling - Pickettywitch 9 11 11 11900
    12 11 I Can't Help Myself - The Four Tops 11 10 10 11875
    11 12 Farewell Is A Lonely Sound - Jimmy Ruffin 12 12 9 11300
    20 13 When Julie Comes Around - The Cuff Links 14 14 12 10025
    10 14 Let It Be - The Beatles 13 13 16 9975
    19 15 Who Do You Love - Juicy Lucy 15 15 14 9325
    21 16 Never Had A Dream Come True - Stevie Wonder 18 16 13 8600
    23 17 Good Morning Freedom - Blue Mink 16 17 18 8125
    17 18 You're Such A Good Looking Woman - Joe Dolan 17 18 17 7800
    24 19 Travellin' Band - Creedence Clearwater Revival 19 19 19 6900
    15 20 Don't Cry Daddy - Elvis Presley 20 21 20 6075
    14 21 Na Na Hey Hey Kiss Him Goodbye - Steam 21 20 22 5875
    16 22 Everybody Get Together - The Dave Clark Five 22 22 23 5050
    26 23 House Of The Rising Sun - Frijid Pink 24 24 21 4400
    NEW 24 Govinda - The Radha Krishna Temple 25 26 29 2700
    18 25 I Want You Back - The Jackson Five 29 23 30 2525
    30 26 Rag Mama Rag - The Band 25 25 2250
    22 27 Years May Come Years May Go - Herman's Hermits 27 24 1875
    NEW 28 Do The Funky Chicken - Rufus Thomas 23 1600
    NEW 29 The Seeker - The Who 27 29 1300
    NEW 30 Daughter Of Darkness - Tom Jones 26 1000
    29 Raindrops Keep Falling On My Head - Sacha Distel 28 750
    B Back Home - The England World Cup Squad '70 26 625
    Why ( Must We Fall In Love) - Diana Ross and The Supremes and the Temptations 28 600
    B I've Got You On My Mind - White Plains 27 500
    28 I'll Go On Hoping - Des O'Connor 29 400
    B I Don't Believe In If Anymore - Roger Whittaker 28 375
    25 Let's Work Together - Canned Heat 30 250
    27 Instant Karma - Lennon/Ono and The Plastic Ono Band

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    I just discovered on facebook (thanks Pete Seaton) that the WorldRadioHistory.com site has an update page, whereby you can see what historical music magazines (and otherwise) have been added to the archive, and when. Bookmark it, and check it often !! Go here:

    https://worldradiohistory.com/A-Worl...ry-Updates.htm

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by brian05 View Post
    Two Little Boys still no. 30 on BMRB chart. Hopefully this will be the last week!

    After 5 weeks The Beatles Let It Be is awarded a Silver Disc for 250,000 sales.

    Also, after 7 weeks Bridge Over Troubled Water was awarded a Silver Disc for 250,000 sales.
    That must have been on sales in the 300 shops only of BMRB, for by the 12 April 1970 S&G had sold over a million and the Beatles 697,000.

    Leave a comment:


  • MrTibbs
    replied
    Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
    Youse guys are talking about 2 different David Armstrong books. The one 'membranemusic' is referring to, British Music Charts Vol 1 1947-59, is a sheet music charts book. The one Graham is referring to, Pick of the Pops 1957-69, is the BBC record charts, data pinched from Dave Taylor/Trevor Ager.
    David Armstrong is not a reputable author. He did no research of his own on any of his books and as Robin correctly asserts he simply pinched data from other contributors like Trevor and Dave and quickly cobbled together his books. The POTP one is riddled with errors and I don't mean occasional ones, and the sheet music one has charts missing from 1955. He won't publish any more books, he did a quick hit and run and then vanished.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    I imagine the printer paper was similar to that used in businesses up and down the country, the green and white type that can be seen by clicking on https://thumbs-prod.si-cdn.com/xXRez...-45506-a_1.jpg
    Great picture - brings back memories of University days using punched cards and getting printouts on such paper.

    Leave a comment:


  • brian05
    replied
    Two Little Boys still no. 30 on BMRB chart. Hopefully this will be the last week!

    After 5 weeks The Beatles Let It Be is awarded a Silver Disc for 250,000 sales.

    Also, after 7 weeks Bridge Over Troubled Water was awarded a Silver Disc for 250,000 sales.

    Leave a comment:


  • RokinRobinOfLocksley
    replied
    Youse guys are talking about 2 different David Armstrong books. The one 'membranemusic' is referring to, British Music Charts Vol 1 1947-59, is a sheet music charts book. The one Graham is referring to, Pick of the Pops 1957-69, is the BBC record charts, data pinched from Dave Taylor/Trevor Ager.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by Robbie View Post
    ^

    The book by David Armstrong you mentioned is from 2011. If volume 2 has yet to appear after a decade it suggests it isn't likely to do so.
    The David Armstrong book is not very good. When I got it I told Dave Taylor I had it, he was mad! He said that much of the information in the book was pinched from him and not only that he messed it up! So Dave supplied me with a file of the charts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by Splodj View Post

    This wording is similar to what NME told The Sun reporters in 1964. They emphasised the 300 figure, which was simply the list of shops they had an arrangement with, and kept quiet about the number of shops they actually phoned. If their team of 6 phoned 25 each, the actual survey total was 150.
    Keeping quite didn't work, the NME had a lot of hyped records in the charts they produced. Especially the new entries. The team itself would have been under massive pressure from the record labels with plenty of cash flowing. It would be interesting to see how many staff changes there were on the team. But such things are naturally not available to the public, even if the NME records were stored somewhere. Most archives have 100 year rules to protect living people. That NME book does confirm they had 150 shops on the books by 1967.

    Leave a comment:


  • Robbie
    replied
    ^
    a new thread has already been started which will address some of the points you raised https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...-december-1939

    the sheet music charts up to the 1960s are already available elsewhere so MrTibbs decided not to post them as it would be duplicating what is out there.

    The book by David Armstrong you mentioned is from 2011. If volume 2 has yet to appear after a decade it suggests it isn't likely to do so.

    Leave a comment:


  • membranemusic
    replied
    Hello
    Re: sheet music charts - sorry, a brief diversion away from the terrific UAC again.

    I would love to share my MPA sheet music files. However there one or two issues that we should check before we start a new thread.

    Firstly, checking files in my loft, I notice there are some omissions, notably the whole of 1981 when it went monthly, so apologies for that.

    Back in the 1980s I requested permission from the MPA to collate and publish these charts in a book. However this was politely refused, on the basis that permission had already been given for such a book. This turned out to be “First Hits” by Brian Henson and Colin Morgan, which I thoroughly recommend, but which might be hard to find now.

    Since then author-compiler David Armstrong has published “British Music Charts Volume 1: 1947-1959”, which is readily available, and is a straightforward no-frills listing. Therefore there is no need to post the charts from 1947 to 1959.
    The author clearly states his ambition to prepare a Volume 2, and maybe a Volume 3. If he is close to completion on this project, I would not want to rain on his parade. Does anybody have a contact detail for this author, so we can ask?

    Also, I notice that the OCC do not slap takedowns on the facebook charts thread, because all the reproduced OCC charts there are for 1 week only, and would arguably be deemed as “fair use” in a journalistic/commentary forum. However, the MPA remains a fully functioning organisation that may have a different point of view if they spot a full chronological listing of their data, as opposed to the odd chart. That is why I suggested help in “filling in the gaps”, which arguably would be “fair use”.

    Also, these charts are hard copies and not scanned yet. It will take a little time to scan several years’ worth. And be prepared for the abundance of show tunes, TV themes and other songs never released on a 45rpm record!

    Incidentally, this was not the last of UK music publisher charts. The OCC published a weekly ringtones chart from October 2005 to December 2006, comprising slot-machine-sound renditions of top tunes, to which not one artist or record label contributed anything. Needless to say, the record business wanted to be involved and obliged realtones availability from their artists, sales of which were collated within the OCC singles chart. So it was nasty while it lasted. You won’t find ringtones on the OCC website archive though. Funny that.

    So, your thoughts please on seeing if we can locate the author David Armstrong.

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    duplicate

    Leave a comment:


  • Splodj
    replied
    Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post
    compiled ... from a panel of 300 record shops
    This wording is similar to what NME told The Sun reporters in 1964. They emphasised the 300 figure, which was simply the list of shops they had an arrangement with, and kept quiet about the number of shops they actually phoned. If their team of 6 phoned 25 each, the actual survey total was 150.

    Leave a comment:

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