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UK OCC Charts Midweeks Thread: 2021

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  • So Wham! is currently no.1 without ACR. Mariah 2, Ed and Elton 3, Pogues 4 and possibly Adele at 5 (depending on Shakin' Steven's "sales"!
    Last edited by braindeadpj; Mon December 6, 2021, 19:38.

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    • Kelly Clarkson looks like she’ll have her best outing for Underneath The Tree this year despite the fact she has a brand new Christmas album.
      1 Harry Styles |2 Ochman |3 Purple Disco Machine |4 Go_A |5 Becky Hill

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      • Originally posted by MadNuno View Post
        Streaming have too much power and so have old christmas songs.

        If Streaming points were cut in half like in Germany (200 streams are a chart sale instead of 100 streams) and older songs points are cut to half (all songs older than 3 years and that charted during that period of time) then we could have the problem solved. Older songs that are revivaled only once would still chart high until being cut and older songs that come back every year on Holidays due to playlists streams would not be hugelly favored by it (they are already very promoted and so they also sell well too).
        But in Germany it's the same problem: Mariah, WHAM, Melanie Thornton, John Lennon, Rolf Zuckowski...every year.

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        • Originally posted by huhu78 View Post

          But in Germany it's the same problem: Mariah, WHAM, Melanie Thornton, John Lennon, Rolf Zuckowski...every year.
          Sure because they don't have the policy of older records having half the streams and counting less points for chart (as UK have) but just the different ratio one (for both charts and awards certifications).

          I was defending having both (the different stream ratios and the reduced weight of streams of old songs).

          As far as I can see streams will soon make new records and some of these oldies christmas songs some of the most certified awards records as wel (many already have streaming points being 5 times more than pure sales and the difference increases year after year). The streaming certification changes are now certifing the most played songs instead of the best selling songs and as streaming increases songs that are seasonaly played over and over on holiday seasons by shops playlists 24/7 will get ahead in half a dozen years.

          If there are no changes by 2030 most probably most of the TOP 10 most certified songs of all time in UK will be christmas songs when before streaming only "Do They Know Is Christmas?" was among TOP 10 best selling singles ever. In less than 15 years this generose streaming weight ratio will change almost completely the way the All Time Chart 100 most certified songs looked for over 60 years (as it already changed almost 50 of the 100 most certified songs already). Kind of very unrealistic and much appreatiated by the music industry that is marketing to control that the way they need to make more money. Sad how they are trying to re-write history - nothing new.
          Last edited by MadNuno; Tue December 7, 2021, 11:50.

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          • Originally posted by MadNuno View Post

            Sure because they don't have the policy of older records having half the streams and counting less points for chart (as UK have) but just the different ratio one (for both charts and awards certifications).

            I was defending having both (the different stream ratios and the reduced weight of streams of old songs).

            As far as I can see streams will soon make new records and some of these oldies christmas songs some of the most certified awards records as wel (many already have streaming points being 5 times more than pure sales and the difference increases year after year). The streaming certification changes are now certifing the most played songs instead of the best selling songs and as streaming increases songs that are seasonaly played over and over on holiday seasons by shops playlists 24/7 will get ahead in half a dozen years.

            If there are no changes by 2030 most probably most of the TOP 10 most certified songs of all time in UK will be christmas songs when before streaming only "Do They Know Is Christmas?" was among TOP 10 best selling singles ever. In less than 15 years this generose streaming weight ratio will change almost completely the way the All Time Chart 100 most certified songs looked for over 60 years (as it already changed almost 50 of the 100 most certified songs already). Kind of very unrealistic and much appreatiated by the music industry that is marketing to control that the way they need to make more money. Sad.
            But sales are becoming increasingly negligible. Would you rather no songs becoming certified at all?

            If you reduce the weight of streaming, it should be for all songs not just for "old" songs. After all, one could easily make the argument it is more difficult for "old" songs to perform well on streaming than songs by newer (whiter, male) artists.
            See The Mariah Carey Discography Rate
            See The Report Card - Weekly Top Songs

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            • Originally posted by bm08 View Post

              But sales are becoming increasingly negligible. Would you rather no songs becoming certified at all?

              If you reduce the weight of streaming, it should be for all songs not just for "old" songs. After all, one could easily make the argument it is more difficult for "old" songs to perform well on streaming than songs by newer (whiter, male) artists.
              As I said, reduce the weight of streaming for all songs and old seasonal songs that charted last season shouldn't have more weight than songs released 13 weeks ago like "Shivers".

              Comment


              • Originally posted by MadNuno View Post

                As I said, reduce the weight of streaming for all songs and old seasonal songs that charted last season shouldn't have more weight than songs released 13 weeks ago like "Shivers".
                There is no objective reason streams should be differently weighted, especially for certification purposes, simply because a song was released more than "13 weeks ago".

                This is ageist in practice, especially given the fact that older songs already face difficulty being playlisted, being played on tv and radio, etc.
                See The Mariah Carey Discography Rate
                See The Report Card - Weekly Top Songs

                Comment


                • Originally posted by bm08 View Post

                  But sales are becoming increasingly negligible. Would you rather no songs becoming certified at all?

                  If you reduce the weight of streaming, it should be for all songs not just for "old" songs. After all, one could easily make the argument it is more difficult for "old" songs to perform well on streaming than songs by newer (whiter, male) artists.
                  This is not true when it comes to Xmas songs. As that poster rightful pointed out every shopping centre and store is playing all those Xmas playlists on loop across the country and that's all being counted for the charts now.
                  " And i think you should take a second just to look at your reflection
                  Baby maybe you're the problem "

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                  • Originally posted by InFamous View Post

                    This is not true when it comes to Xmas songs. As that poster rightful pointed out every shopping centre and store is playing all those Xmas playlists on loop across the country and that's all being counted for the charts now.
                    But why is that relevant only for Christmas songs? As another user pointed out, this isnt the only time of year when shopping centres and stores play music from playlists.
                    See The Mariah Carey Discography Rate
                    See The Report Card - Weekly Top Songs

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by bm08 View Post

                      But why is that relevant only for Christmas songs? As another user pointed out, this isnt the only time of year when shopping centres and stores play music from playlists.
                      It is highly unlikely that every store in the country is playing the same genre playlist containing the same songs literally 24/7 at any other time of the year. Its not remotely the same.
                      " And i think you should take a second just to look at your reflection
                      Baby maybe you're the problem "

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by InFamous View Post

                        It is highly unlikely that every store in the country is playing the same genre playlist containing the same songs literally 24/7 at any other time of the year. Its not remotely the same.
                        Yes, because we have data to support that every store in the country is playing the same genre playlist containing the same songs literally 24/7 this time of year.

                        This is quite frankly hyperbolic.
                        See The Mariah Carey Discography Rate
                        See The Report Card - Weekly Top Songs

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by bm08 View Post

                          Yes, because we have data to support that every store in the country is playing the same genre playlist containing the same songs literally 24/7 this time of year.

                          This is quite frankly hyperbolic.
                          Lol I know you are extremely invested in protecting the Christmas songs so youre not going to see this rationally.
                          Walk into any shop, anywhere in the country from Dec 1st and they all have the same Christmas music playing on loop. Trying to deny this is.. a choice.
                          " And i think you should take a second just to look at your reflection
                          Baby maybe you're the problem "

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by InFamous View Post

                            Lol I know you are extremely invested in protecting the Christmas songs so youre not going to see this rationally.
                            Walk into any shop, anywhere in the country from Dec 1st and they all have the same Christmas music playing on loop. Trying to deny this is.. a choice.
                            Firstly, you have no idea what I am "extremely invested" in so not sure what that has to do with this. It would be preferable to not assume this.

                            Secondly, whether the same songs are playing on loop is irrelevant to the fact that those songs are being streamed based on the rules given.

                            My point is simple. Apply the rules to all songs at all times of the year. If the issue is passive consumption of music, then remove its impact on the charts for all songs. Just because it is being 'abused' this time of year doesnt mean it isnt also abused other times of the year. It is narrow sighted to simply say the system is broken only 1 month of the entire year.
                            See The Mariah Carey Discography Rate
                            See The Report Card - Weekly Top Songs

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by bm08 View Post

                              Firstly, you have no idea what I am "extremely invested" in so not sure what that has to do with this. It would be preferable to not assume this.

                              Secondly, whether the same songs are playing on loop is irrelevant to the fact that those songs are being streamed based on the rules given.

                              My point is simple. Apply the rules to all songs at all times of the year. If the issue is passive consumption of music, then remove its impact on the charts for all songs. Just because it is being 'abused' this time of year doesnt mean it isnt also abused other times of the year. It is narrow sighted to simply say the system is broken only 1 month of the entire year.
                              Ok.

                              But the effect is clearly exaccerbated when it comes to the Christmas songs.

                              A quick look at the charts will tell you that. Also, I personally am not remotely bothered by the Christmas songs resurging for a month every year, but it is clear that it would not happen without the extreme passive listening. I mean is anyone really putting on Christmas songs at home now ? A massive percentage of the streams are simply passive ambient listening and I dont believe this is true for other songs at other times of years to the same extent.
                              " And i think you should take a second just to look at your reflection
                              Baby maybe you're the problem "

                              Comment


                              • They should just create a new chart for catalog songs updated every week and call it a day. YouŽd still have charts based on consumption and, at the same time, adapted to a streaming-driven market.
                                Beauty is beauty, whether is black or white

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                                • Originally posted by Beautyisbeauty View Post
                                  They should just create a new chart for catalog songs updated every week and call it a day. YouÂŽd still have charts based on consumption and, at the same time, adapted to a streaming-driven market.
                                  But then what about all the "old" albums that appear on the album charts due to streaming also. Once you start applying rules you would have to apply them to all areas.
                                  " And i think you should take a second just to look at your reflection
                                  Baby maybe you're the problem "

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                                  • I often read here that christmas playlists are played in shops f.e. In Germany Spotify is not allowed to be played in shops and/or public spaces, I don't know how the other Streaming Provider handle that and how the rules are outside Germany. Considering that, shops may not be the reason for such high streaming numbers (but I don't know how many shops take the rules seriously).

                                    Comment


                                    • You can’t use Spotify in shops in the UK. You also need a licence to broadcast music in a shop and even if they ignored all this and still played Spotify, an individual shop can still only contribute 10 streams per song per day.

                                      The biggest driver behind Christmas streaming is still personal consumption. I switch it Christmas music almost exclusively in December, because it’s the only time to listen to it. We saw the impact when downloads came into play on the charts, but streaming shows just how much we consume Christmas music.

                                      As for the chart rules, I disagree with most of them. It doesn’t matter how old a song is, this ACR is a load of rubbish. From the above, we can see Wham is outperforming Ed and Elton - it doesn’t matter if the song is almost 40 year old. It’s chart manipulation in favour of new releases which is wrong.
                                      Straight white men rule everything around me

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                                      • I'm guessing that Christmas is a time when more people listen to playlists for longer than at any other time of the year. That is certainly the case for me. It would help account for the sheer volume of Christmas tracks that chart inside the top 100. If I wanted, I could skip some tracks but if I'm busy doing something else or just relaxing I don't usually bother when it is Christmas music.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by Artoo View Post
                                          You can’t use Spotify in shops in the UK. You also need a licence to broadcast music in a shop and even if they ignored all this and still played Spotify, an individual shop can still only contribute 10 streams per song per day.

                                          The biggest driver behind Christmas streaming is still personal consumption. I switch it Christmas music almost exclusively in December, because it’s the only time to listen to it. We saw the impact when downloads came into play on the charts, but streaming shows just how much we consume Christmas music.

                                          As for the chart rules, I disagree with most of them. It doesn’t matter how old a song is, this ACR is a load of rubbish. From the above, we can see Wham is outperforming Ed and Elton - it doesn’t matter if the song is almost 40 year old. It’s chart manipulation in favour of new releases which is wrong.
                                          exactly my thoughts!
                                          KUBA'S CHART

                                          Comment


                                          • Originally posted by Artoo View Post
                                            You can’t use Spotify in shops in the UK. You also need a licence to broadcast music in a shop and even if they ignored all this and still played Spotify, an individual shop can still only contribute 10 streams per song per day.

                                            The biggest driver behind Christmas streaming is still personal consumption. I switch it Christmas music almost exclusively in December, because it’s the only time to listen to it. We saw the impact when downloads came into play on the charts, but streaming shows just how much we consume Christmas music.

                                            As for the chart rules, I disagree with most of them. It doesn’t matter how old a song is, this ACR is a load of rubbish. From the above, we can see Wham is outperforming Ed and Elton - it doesn’t matter if the song is almost 40 year old. It’s chart manipulation in favour of new releases which is wrong.
                                            You need a licence but once you have YOU ARE ALLOWED TO PLAY SPOTIFY OR APPLE MUSIC OR ANY OTHER STREAMING SERVICE (or a CD or a vinyl or a cassette or a iTunes track you bought).

                                            If you DON'T HAVE A LICENCE you are only allowed to PLAY RADIO.

                                            MOST SHOPS HAVE A LICENCE THAT ISN'T THAT EXPENSIVE.

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by MadNuno View Post

                                              You need a licence but once you have YOU ARE ALLOWED TO PLAY SPOTIFY OR APPLE MUSIC OR ANY OTHER STREAMING SERVICE (or a CD or a vinyl or a cassette or a iTunes track you bought).

                                              If you DON'T HAVE A LICENCE you are only allowed to PLAY RADIO.

                                              MOST SHOPS HAVE A LICENCE THAT ISN'T THAT EXPENSIVE.
                                              In the UK this is incorrect.
                                              Straight white men rule everything around me

                                              Comment


                                              • Originally posted by Artoo View Post

                                                In the UK this is incorrect.
                                                You cannot possibly think anyone takes any notice of that lol. Everyone is playing music via Spotify in stores shopping centres barbers gyms. It's not like it's possible to check.
                                                " And i think you should take a second just to look at your reflection
                                                Baby maybe you're the problem "

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by InFamous View Post

                                                  You cannot possibly think anyone takes any notice of that lol. Everyone is playing music via Spotify in stores shopping centres barbers gyms. It's not like it's possible to check.
                                                  In store music is a huge business strictly controlled by licences. It’s really easy to check who has what licence and the fines aren’t small either. It’s also in Spotify’s under agreement that you can’t use your Spotify account for commercial purposes.

                                                  A lot of larger chain stores get sent pre-approved music licensed at head office level. It’s been a while since I had to look into it, but I believe you can get royalties if your song is played in shops etc.
                                                  Straight white men rule everything around me

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Originally posted by Artoo View Post

                                                    In store music is a huge business strictly controlled by licences. It’s really easy to check who has what licence and the fines aren’t small either. It’s also in Spotify’s under agreement that you can’t use your Spotify account for commercial purposes.

                                                    A lot of larger chain stores get sent pre-approved music licensed at head office level. It’s been a while since I had to look into it, but I believe you can get royalties if your song is played in shops etc.
                                                    There's def a commercial licence you can get for Spotify. I read about it last night unless that's only in the US. I just know a lot of places I go to use Spotify to stream music hooked up to mini speakers.
                                                    " And i think you should take a second just to look at your reflection
                                                    Baby maybe you're the problem "

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