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The Definitive Combined Music Papers Chart 1955 - 1969

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  • The Definitive Combined Music Papers Chart 1955 - 1969

    Greetings Pop Pickers

    Welcome to ‘The Definitive Combined Music Papers Chart’ 1955 – 1969

    To begin it is important to define the difference between this chart and my previous Ultimate Averaged Chart. The UAC as was defined right from the beginning was an ‘upgraded’ BBC chart. It used the same Inverse Point compilation methodology as the BBC, and allowed both sides of a record to chart in the mid-fifties as did the BBC.
    So The UAC:
    - Weighted contributory charts according to store returns
    - Started earlier than the BBC Chart
    - Included RM and RR throughout
    - Amended calculation errors.

    It therefore justifiably still stands as the ‘Ultimate BBC Chart’.

    So, to The Definitive Combined Music Papers Chart.

    Much work and collaboration has gone into devising this project.
    Unlike the UAC which was devised as a ‘specialist’ BBC chart this goes further. The problem with Inverse Points was always that it was over simplistic in relation to proportional sales between each chart position. For example, for a Top 10 chart Inverse Points assumed a #1 sold 10 times more than a #10. For a Top 30 chart, Inverse Points assumed a #1 sold 30 times more than a #30.
    We know this was not the case, sales were much, much closer than that. Like the Extended RM Chart The Definitive Chart will use the Gallup Points System.
    A detailed explanation on the Gallup Points System v Inverse Points is given on the post immediately following this one for those of you who may want more information on how it works.
    Briefly for here, the Gallup Points System provides a far more accurate means to establish point differential and likely sales proportion in the absence of the actual sales themselves. Once more it is important that store returns are then factored in to balance the chart against the proportion of store returns each music paper used.

    THE CHART GUIDELINES
    This is a record chart so split sides are now combined by simply adding their individual points together to get a combined chart position.
    LP's are excluded as this is a singles chart and also both MM and RR always excluded LP's from their chart.
    EP’s are included as most charts always included them and all charts included them for at least some of the time.
    When only one chart excludes EPs (like MM between 1959 and May 1963 or RR until December 1967) and that is the only chart to have a blank position for a particular EP, a calculated average position will be assigned. In all other cases blank EP positions will be considered as non-charting.

    In summary, this is the most comprehensive chart possible covering that era of 1955 to 1969. Any one music paper of the time collected their individual proportion of dealer returns and converted these into their own chart. But this is a Super Chart because it takes all their charts and combines them into an all-embracing definitive one. So, in 1955 it uses the results of over 100 dealers, by 1956 over 140 dealers, by 1958 over 190 dealers, by 1960 over 300 dealers and by 1964 over 600 dealers.
    Alan Smith, much respected as a chart historian with many contacts inside the record business thoroughly researched over a number of years how many stores were used by the music papers, so it is his evidence of figures that is again used here for the purposes of this chart. By further adding Gallup’s mathematical sales proportion calculations to this delivers a chart unequalled anywhere for this pre BMRB era. No other chart for the time comes close to this ‘Definitive’ chart.


    In conclusion I need to thank the guys from UKMIX who assisted me with this monumental work, without their particular skills, knowledge, advice, debating, and countless emails of information pouring back and forward we would not have the Definitive chart result that we are now proud of. So, I take my hat off to Robin, Lonnie, Kjell, David and Nick for their valuable assistance in pulling all this together.

    So, enjoy the ride all the way from October 1955 to February 1969. Like all journeys there are often surprises along the way. The journey begins here !

    Brian
    To The Definitive Music Paper Chart

  • #2
    THE GALLUP POINTS SYSTEM

    Let me explain more about the Gallup Points System in support of our decision to use this for our Definitive Combined Music Papers Chart.

    After much research and testing, comparing multiple ways of assigning proportional sales points to chart positions (including using values from limited BARS/BMRB data, ChartWatch, Record Business, and Gallup), we decided to go with the 1983 actual Gallup data of record sales per chart position, averaged across 51 consecutive weeks, and ratioing them for a Top 30 (or for the earlier months a Top 20) chart. Gallup therefore delivers a much more reliable chart performance outcome which is more sales related.

    From the BARS/BMRB data in Michael Cable's book "The Pop Industry Inside Out", the RESULTS of using the Inverse Points method is very close to actual sales, but the Gallup method will offer more precise results. To offer a simple explanation, the closer the component chart positions (NME, RM, MM, Disc, RR) are to each other for a given record, then the Inverse method could at times exactly agree with the Gallup method. But when the component chart positions vary more widely, then the Gallup method will deliver much better real-world results.

    The following 2 graphs help demonstrate the relationship between sales differential and chart positions between Gallup and Inverse.



    GallupPointsImage.png
    To The Definitive Music Paper Chart

    Comment


    • #3
      First Chart will be posted shortly guys and a new chart almost every day.
      To The Definitive Music Paper Chart

      Comment


      • #4
        Greetings Pop Pickers

        The Definitive Combined Music Papers Chart 1955 -1969


        Welcome To The Chart Of All Charts

        The Chart For Week Ending Saturday 1st October 1955

        THE DEFINITIVE MUSIC PAPERS CHART Dealers
        CHART Compiled Using Gallup Points System/Store Volume Size NME RM Gallup Inverse Inverse
        THIS October 1955 to February 1969 60 52 Points Points Chart
        WEEK Chart For Week Ending Saturday 1st October 1955 30 Scored Scored Position
        1 Rose Marie - Slim Whitman 1 2 2898.2 3308 1
        2 Cool Water - Frankie Laine 2 1 2827.2 3300 2
        3 Learnin' The Blues - Frank Sinatra 3 4 1812.2 3084 3
        4 The Man From Laramie - Jimmy Young 5 3 1691.4 3016 4
        5 Everywhere - David Whitfield 4 5 1586.6 2972 5
        6 Indian Love Call / China Doll - Slim Whitman * 6 6 1327.4 2800 6
        7 The Breeze And I - Caterina Valente 7 6 1263.2 2740 7
        8 Blue Star - Cyril Stapleton 9 8 1063.5 2516 8
        9 Close The Door - The Stargazers 6 18 986.9 2176 11
        10 Strange Lady In Town - Frankie Laine 10 9 985.4 2404 9
        11 Evermore - Ruby Murray 8 14 935.5 2264 10
        12 Every Day Of My Life - Malcolm Vaughan 13 10 860.4 2172 12
        13 Love Me Or Leave Me - Sammy Davis Jnr 14 13 759.4 1956 13
        14 Hey There - Rosemary Clooney 17 12 722.2 1828 14
        15 That Old Black Magic - Sammy Davis Jnr 16 14 697.4 1784 15
        16 John And Julie - Eddie Calvert 12 20 694.0 1712 16
        17 Hummingbird - Frankie Laine 11 407.5 1040 17
        18 Stars Shine In Your Eyes - Ronnie Hilton 15 374.3 960 18
        19 Yellow Rose Of Texas - Mitch Miller 14 343.1 884 19
        20 That's How A Love Song Was Born - Ray Burns 19 305.7 720 21
        The Dam Busters March - The Band Of The R.A.F. 17 292.9 728 20
        The Man From Laramie - Al Martino 20 289.2 660 23
        Hernando's Hideaway - Johnnie Ray 18 275.8 676 22
        Indian Love Call - Slim Whitman* 11
        China Doll - Slim Whitman* 18
        * Joint sides points combined so a # 6 awarded.
        To The Definitive Music Paper Chart

        Comment


        • #5
          Another great thread Mr Tibbs! Looking forward to seeing how combining sides and adding a sales-related index will affect the overall chart positions.

          Comment


          • #6
            It's a great start guys, 6 likes already. If anyone else looking in likes what they see please add your like to the 6 already there on the first post to let me know I'm on the right track for the next chart tomorrow.
            To The Definitive Music Paper Chart

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            • #7
              Greetings Pop Pickers

              The Definitive Combined Music Papers Chart 1955 -1969


              Welcome To The Chart Of All Charts

              The Chart For Week Ending Saturday 8th October 1955


              THE DEFINITIVE MUSIC PAPERS CHART Dealers
              CHART CHART Compiled Using Gallup Points System/Store Volume Size NME RM Gallup Inverse Inverse
              LAST THIS October 1955 to February 1969 60 52 Points Points Chart
              WEEK WEEK Chart For Week Ending Saturday October 8th 1955 Top 30 Scored Scored Position
              4 1 The Man From Laramie - Jimmy Young 2 1 2827.2 3300 1
              1 2 Rose Marie - Slim Whitman 1 3 2696.4 3256 2
              2 3 Cool Water - Frankie Laine 3 2 2132.5 3188 3
              3 4 Learnin' The Blues - Frank Sinatra 4 5 1586.6 2972 4
              5 5 Everywhere - David Whitfield 5 4 1572.9 2964 5
              8 6 Blue Star - Cyril Stapleton 6 6 1327.4 2800 6
              7 7 The Breeze And I - Caterina Valente 7 9 1123.7 2584 7
              6 8 Indian Love Call - Slim Whitman 10 7 1069.4 2508 9
              19 9 Yellow Rose Of Texas - Mitch Miller 9 8 1063.5 2516 8
              9 10 Close The Door - The Stargazers 8 11 1000.0 2420 10
              12 11 Every Day Of My Life - Malcolm Vaughan 12 10 884.2 2232 11
              NEW 12 Hernando's Hideaway / Hey There - Johnnie Ray* 20 7 849.9 1908 14
              NEW 13 Hernando's Hideaway - The Johnston Brothers 11 14 813.3 2084 12
              13 14 Love Me Or Leave Me - Sammy Davis Jnr. 13 15 743.9 1912 13
              14 15 Hey There - Rosemary Clooney 18 12 702.4 1768 15
              10 16 Strange Lady In Town - Frankie Laine 15 17 667.2 1688 16
              16 17 John And Julie - Eddie Calvert 16 19 619.3 1524 17
              11 18 Evermore - Ruby Murray 14 395.8 1020 18
              17 19 Humming Bird - Frankie Laine 13 363.6 936 19
              NEW 20 Hey There - Lita Roza 17 338.0 840 20
              Hey There - Sammy Davis Jnr. 19 305.7 720 21
              Stars Shine In Your Eyes - Ronnie Hilton 20 289.2 660 22
              The Dam Busters March - The Band Of The R.A.F. 20 250.6 572 23
              Hernando's Hideaway - Johnnie Ray* 16
              Hey There - Johnnie Ray* 18
              * Joint Sides Points Combined #7 awarded.
              To The Definitive Music Paper Chart

              Comment


              • #8
                Grerat thread MrTibbs. i love the use of colour in the various columns, it helps me to be able to read across and down the various rows and columns much quicker.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Officially RM expanded to a Top 20 this week (8-Oct-55) as shown in books and threads hitherto. However the previous week RM revealed it's 11-20 positions in their chart commentary column, so it is great to be able to include this and move the Top 20 start date back a week.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Johnnie Ray's low NME position is a quirk of the fact that Hey There is outside the Top 20 so gets no points, whereas next week it will enter and get points, moving it closer to the RM position.

                    Indian Love Call falls because its flipside China Doll has fallen off the NME 20; I think the flipside should still be included on the definitive combined chart though because RM lists it as a two-sided entry at #7.

                    Why does RM have 52 and 30 in its dealer rows?
                    Last edited by Satchmo76; Sat February 25, 2023, 14:57.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Robbie View Post
                      Grerat thread MrTibbs. i love the use of colour in the various columns, it helps me to be able to read across and down the various rows and columns much quicker.
                      Thanks Robbie. I can't lay claim to the colour idea, I had it all in grey and white initially till the other guys helping jumped on it and suggested the colours for the reason you describe and the outcome is much better.
                      To The Definitive Music Paper Chart

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Satchmo76 View Post
                        Johnnie Ray's low NME position is a quirk of the fact that Hey There is outside the Top 20 so gets no points, whereas next week it will enter and get points, moving it closer to the RM position.

                        Indian Love Call falls because its flipside China Doll has fallen off the NME 20; I think the flipside should still be included on the definitive combined chart though because RM lists it as a two-sided entry at #7.

                        Why does RM have 52 and 30 in its dealer rows?
                        Ah Yes let me explain that Satchmo, both are actually unrelated. The 52 is the dealer numbers for RM, the 30 has to be there in that position because the chart will eventually become a top thirty and this box tells the spreadsheet how long the chart is. I have named this Top 30 now to clarify this.
                        To The Definitive Music Paper Chart

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Satchmo76 View Post
                          Indian Love Call falls because its flipside China Doll has fallen off the NME 20; I think the flipside should still be included on the definitive combined chart though because RM lists it as a two-sided entry at #7.
                          Good point Satchmo76. Maybe Brian could list the record as "Indian Love Call / China Doll (RM only) - Slim Whitman", as this situation will surely arise many more times going forward.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
                            Good point Satchmo76. Maybe Brian could list the record as "Indian Love Call / China Doll (RM only) - Slim Whitman", as this situation will surely arise many more times going forward.
                            I already do that guys. If you look at the bottom of the chart in question it lists both sides as only being listed on Record Mirror.
                            To The Definitive Music Paper Chart

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                            • #15
                              I'm delighted to see how well this chart is being received and viewed by you all. 11 likes already. Wow. Keep those likes on the first post coming guys and show me how many more guys are following this too
                              To The Definitive Music Paper Chart

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                              • #16
                                Originally posted by MrTibbs View Post

                                I already do that guys. If you look at the bottom of the chart in question it lists both sides as only being listed on Record Mirror.
                                Not on the 8th October, which is the chart I mean. You do it with Johnnie Ray but not with Slim W.

                                Robin, my understanding is the chart doesn't need to say "RM only' because the orange coding of the cell already does that (see Johnnie Ray)

                                Comment


                                • #17
                                  Originally posted by Satchmo76 View Post

                                  Not on the 8th October, which is the chart I mean. You do it with Johnnie Ray but not with Slim W.

                                  Robin, my understanding is the chart doesn't need to say "RM only' because the orange coding of the cell already does that (see Johnnie Ray)
                                  Ah, Brian is correct for Oct 8 !! The b-side China Doll does not appear on NME nor RM on Oct 8. Only the a-side Indian Love Call does, NME #10, RM #7.

                                  Satchmo, true that the colour coding, asterisk, and note will alert us when a split single has been combined.

                                  But Brian, let's look at Oct 1 again. For NME, you show Indian Love Call / China Doll, #11 combined with #18 = #6. All well and good. But look at RM at #6. We don't know for sure what is going on here. Are both sides listed together at RM #6, or is one side by itself at RM #6? We can't tell by what is shown. From the actual RM chart, we see that only the a-side Indian Love Call is at #6 this week.

                                  So we need to figure out how to indicate these several different possible situations into something easy to read and understand. I know from chart history, ha, for a given double sided hit across multiple component charts in the same week, sometimes 1 component chart will split the sides into 2 chart positions, while another component chart will list both sides together in 1 chart position, and another component chart may show just the a-side or just the b-side. I can think of 2 situations off the top of my head:

                                  Cliff Richard "I Love You / D in Love" in Dec 1960: split on NME; only the a-side on RM, MM, RR; only the b-side on Disc.

                                  Then The Yardbirds famous situation of "Evil Heart You / Still I'm Sad" in Oct 1965: split on NME; both together on MM and RR; only the a-side on Disc.

                                  Just need to figure it out, I'm sure it can be done...

                                  Edit: Unless it's not important for original component chart listings to distinguish between both sides together or only one side. The more important thing to note is when split sides are combined together into one chart position...

                                  Comment


                                  • #18
                                    Interesting, as the RM extended chart does have both sides listed on the 8/10/1955 chart, suggesting that China Doll just didn't make the Top 20 in RM (as most RM records are currently split in 1955), but did appear on at least 1 dealer this week (though will be absent for the next 3 week).

                                    Comment


                                    • #19
                                      And that brings up another interesting point braindeadpj: for the Definitive Chart, should Brian use the historical RM chart, or the RM extended chart? Well, seeing as how the RM extended charts are only done up to Nov 1955...

                                      Comment


                                      • #20
                                        I think it's better to stick with the official RM chart.... while there are differences, they are typically similar and the RM chart is recognized by all. Using a different chart could be seen by some to cheapen the value of this chart, though it may be interesting to see how/if things change if you do use the extended.....

                                        Comment


                                        • #21

                                          I don't really agree Robin that the Slim Whitman positioning isn't clear on 1st October.

                                          We need to think of this as one record not two sides. The record, no matter what side, placed on RM at #6 that week. NME split the sides to 11 and 18 so by adding the points together for both sides to make it just one record the total points combined estimated it would have placed at #6 on NME that week too. So 'the 'record' is now ranked as being at #6 on both charts and therefore achieves Gallup Points for the two #6's towards 'The Definitive Chart'. The combined position for NME is highlighted and explained. The original individual chart positionsfor NME are present also, so I don't see how this can be made any clearer.

                                          This is how it will work for any split sides charted on any chart going forward. Where both sides are mentioned on any chart the title on The Definitive Chart will name both sides as a double sided record. It is the fairest and most transparent way to manage such occurances.
                                          To The Definitive Music Paper Chart

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                                          • #22
                                            Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post
                                            I think it's better to stick with the official RM chart.... while there are differences, they are typically similar and the RM chart is recognized by all. Using a different chart could be seen by some to cheapen the value of this chart, though it may be interesting to see how/if things change if you do use the extended.....
                                            Yeah the official RM chart needs to be used here. The Extended Chart only uses the dealer charts as printed in the paper and is primarily a chart to indicate how every record on these charts would have charted.
                                            To The Definitive Music Paper Chart

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                                            • #23
                                              On split sides, the sales-profiled shape of the Gallup curve should provide a more accurate means of combining. This will be particularly useful in these early years when split sides were common and chart compilers had yet to come to a (non-NME) consensus that combining was best.

                                              Comment


                                              • #24
                                                Greetings Pop Pickers

                                                The Definitive Combined Music Papers Chart 1955 -1969


                                                Welcome To The Chart Of All Charts

                                                The Chart For Week Ending Saturday 15th October 1955


                                                THE DEFINITIVE MUSIC PAPERS CHART Dealers
                                                CHART CHART Compiled Using Gallup Points System NME RM Gallup Inverse Inverse
                                                LAST THIS Chart Based On Over 110 Dealers Returns 60 52 Points Points Chart
                                                WEEK WEEK Chart For Week Ending Saturday 15th October Top 30 Scored Scored Position
                                                1 1 The Man From Laramie - Jimmy Young 1 1 3360.0 3360 1
                                                3 2 Cool Water - Frankie Laine 2 2 2365.5 3248 2
                                                2 3 Rose Marie - Slim Whitman 4 3 1794.0 3076 3
                                                6 4 Blue Star - Cyril Stapleton 3 5 1723.3 3032 4
                                                9 5 Yellow Rose Of Texas - Mitch Miller 5 4 1572.9 2964 5
                                                12 5 Hernando's Hideaway / Hey There - Johnnie Ray* 5 4 1572.9 2964 5
                                                5 7 Everywhere - David Whitfield 6 6 1327.4 2800 7
                                                4 8 Learnin' The Blues - Frank Sinatra 7 8 1160.4 2636 8
                                                15 9 Hey There - Rosemary Clooney 10 7 1069.4 2508 10
                                                7 10 The Breeze And I - Caterina Valente 8 9 1069.2 2524 9
                                                13 11 Hernando's Hideaway- The Johnston Brothers 11 10 911.1 2292 11
                                                10 12 Close The Door - The Stargazers 9 18 825.9 1996 13
                                                NEW 13 Rock Around The Clock - Bill Haley and His Comets 13 12 803.7 2068 12
                                                8 14 Indian Love Call - Slim Whitman 14 13 759.4 1956 14
                                                11 15 Every Day Of My Life - Malcolm Vaughan 15 15 698.7 1792 15
                                                14 16 Love Me Or Leave Me - Sammy Davis Jnr. 17 17 630.9 1568 16
                                                18 17 Evermore - Ruby Murray 18 318.2 780 17
                                                19 18 Humming Bird - Frankie Laine 16 307.1 780 17
                                                NEW 19 I'll Come When You Call - Ruby Murray 19 305.7 720 19
                                                NEW 20 Go On By - Alma Cogan 20 289.2 660 20
                                                20 20 Hey There - Lita Roza 20 289.2 660 20
                                                Hey There - Sammy Davis Jnr. 19 264.9 624 22
                                                Love Me Or Leave Me - Doris Day 20 250.6 572 23
                                                Yellow Rose Of Texas - Ronnie Hilton 20 250.6 572 23
                                                Hernando's Hideaway - Johnnie Ray* 11 10
                                                Hey There - Johnnie Ray* 16 14
                                                *Joint Sides Points Combined so # 5 and #4 awarded
                                                To The Definitive Music Paper Chart

                                                Comment


                                                • #25
                                                  I think the way the colours highlight the split sides being combined is good. It highlights that something has been done and the introduction is very clear on the rule applied here. One of the things that this chart does is smooth the multiple sides. Today the download era makes the singles charts a tracks chart rather than a release chart. Here, in the 1950’s, we have the single small black round disc with two (or more of EP’s but not discussing those) tracks on it, one per side. The original charts split those sometimes and didn’t split other times. That’s not great and also reduces the relative sales of a record compared to everybody else.

                                                  In short therefore I think sides have to be combined here when it is the same record given the rules of the chart in the first post.
                                                  http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                                                  Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

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