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URGENT HELP REQUIRED OCC / Billboard Chart Question 7 October 1979 - 9 October 1979 - 3 Day Chart

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  • #26
    Originally posted by bankcottage001 View Post
    This is the link to the Music Week with explanation on front page. I remember reading about this after my confusion at the time.

    Music-Week-1979-10-13.pdf
    Thank you My Friend bankcottage001

    It states the following

    Album chart updated

    FOR SEVERAL years now the Music Week albums chart has been published ten days after sales returns are computed.
    This has been due to logistics problems caused by printing schedules and, in part, the lesser relevance placed on the
    albums chart as a marketing tool when the chart was set up ten years ago. Now in response to changing market conditions;
    Music Week will publish a chart reflecting album sales in the week prececding publication. This has been made possible
    through the cooperation of chart compilers British Market Research Bureau and our printers, Pensord Press, and as a
    result of the recent creation of Music Week's unique charts section in the centre pages. This week the chart printed as
    usual in the centre section is the new up-to-date chart computed from last week's sales.

    But in order not to interrupt continuity we are also publishing (on Page Four) the chart based on sales week ending
    September 29 which would have been published this week.


    https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Mus...1979-10-13.pdf

    Most respectfully

    Germanicus

    Comment


    • #27
      Dear All

      as presented in my post above as supplied from the link by bankcottage001

      This is the Album Chart from Page 4 as published in Music-Week

      Interesting that there is a joint Position 69

      Presented here for Historical purposes is the Chart.

      ALBUM CHARTS

      The Music Week album chart compiled during the period September 24 to 29 1979. (See explanation on Page One).

      1 (New) Eat To The Beat. Blondie — Chrysalis CDL 1225.
      2 (1) The Pleasure Principle, Gary Numan — Beggars Banquet BEGA 10.
      3 (2) Oceans of Fantasy. Boney M — Atlantic K 50610.
      4 (6) The Raven, Strangiers — United Artists UAG 30262.
      5 (5) Discovery, Electric Light Orchestra — Jet JETLX 500.
      6 (81 Outlandos D'Amour, Police — AtM AMLH 68502.
      7 (New) The Long Run, Eagles — Asylum K 52181.
      8 (4) String Of Hits, Shadows — EMI EMC 3310.
      9 (3) Rock 'n' Roll Juvenile, Cliff Richard - EMI EMC 3307.
      10 (11) Unleashed In The East. Judas Priest — CBS 83852.
      11 (26) Off The Wall, Michael Jackson — Epic EPC 83468.
      12 (7) In Through The Out Door, Led Zeppelin — Swansong SSK 59410.
      13 (17) Down To Earth, Rainbow — Polydor POLD 5023,
      14 (9) The Adventures Of The Hersham Boys, Sham 69 — Polydor POLD 5025.
      15 (12) I Am. Earth Wind and Fire — CBS 86084.
      16 (16) Night Owl, Gerry Rafferty — United Artists UAK 30238.
      17 (14) Replicas. Tubeway Army — Beggars Banquet BEGA 7.
      18 (13) Parallel Lines, Blondie — Chrysalis CDL 1192.
      19 (10) Slow Train Coming. Bob Dylan - CBS 86095.
      20 (19) Breakfast In America, Supertramp — A&M AMLK 63708.
      21 (15) Midnight Magic, Commodores — Motown STMA 8032.
      22 (28) Greatest Hits 1972-78. lOcc — Mercury 9102 504.
      23 (18) Street Life, Crusaders — MCA 3008.
      24 (24) Voulez Vous, Abba — Epic EPC 86086.
      25 (23) Manifesto, Roxy Music — Polydor POLH 001.
      26 (42) A Different Kind Of Tension. Buzzcocks — United Artists UAG 30260.
      27 (50) Stormwatch, Jethro Tull — Chrysalis CDL 1238.
      28 (25) Welcome To The Cruise, Judie Tzuke — Rocket TRAIN 7.
      29 (34) War Of The Worlds, Jeff Wayne - CBS 96000/WOW 100.
      30 (22) Join Hands, Siouxsie and The Banshees — Polydor POLD 5024.
      31 (52) Bad Girls, Donna Summer — Casablanca CALD 5007.
      32 (33) Manilow Magic, Barry Manilow — Arista ARTV 2.
      33 (20) Last The Whole Night Long. James Last — Polydor PTD 001.
      34 (New) Live And Learn, Elkie Brooks - A&M AMLH 68509.
      35 (21) The Best Disco Album In The World, Various — WEA K 58062.
      36 (51) Coming Up For Air, Penetration — Virgin V 2131.
      37 (37) Into The Music, Van Morrison — Vertigo 9102 852.
      38 (47) Dart Attack, Darts — Magnet MAG 5030.
      39 (New) 154, Wire — Harvest SHSP 4105.
      40 (29) Bat Out Of Hell, Meat Loaf - Epic/Cleveland EPC 82419
      41 (55) Dream Police, Cheap Trick - Epic EPC 83522.
      42 (27) Tubeway Army, Tubeway Army — Beggars Banquet BEGA 4.
      43 (39) Sky, Sky - Ariola ARLH 5022.
      44 (30) Cut. Slits - Island ILPS 9573.
      45 (36) Shooting Stars, Dollar — Carrere CAL 111.
      46 (45) The Very Best Of Leo Sayer. Leo Sayer — Chrysalis CDL 1222.
      47 (43) Quadrophenia, Original Soundtrack — Polydor 2625 037.
      48 (57) Rtckie Lee Jones, Rickie Lee Jones — Warner Brothers K 56628.
      49 (31) Kenny Rogers Singles Album, Kenny Rogers — United Artists UAK 30263.
      50 (New) Here, Leo Sayer — Chrysalis CDL 1240.
      51 (32) Bridges, John Williams — Lotus WH 5015.
      52 (New) Love Hunter, White Snake — United Artists UAG 30264.
      53 (53) We Are Family, Sister Sledge — Atlantic K 50587.
      54 (New) Another Kind Of Blues, UK Subs - Gem GEMLP 100.
      55 (46) The Best Of The Dooleys, Dooleys — GTO GTTV 038.
      56 (38) Out Of The Blue/Electric Light Orchestra — Jet JETDP 400.
      57 (New) Laser Love, After The Fire - CBS 83795.
      58 (35) Highway To Hell, AC/DC - Atlantic K 50628.
      59 (44) Nightflight To Venus, Boney M — Atlantic K 50498.
      60 (67) Communique, Dire Straits - Vertigo 9102 031.
      61 (48) Queen Live Killers, Queen, EMI EMSP 330.
      62 (41) Morning Dance, Spyro Gyra — Infinity INS 2003.
      63 (New) Facades, Sad Cafe — RCA Victor PL 25249.
      64 (69) Hot Tracks, Various — K- Tel NE 1049.
      65 (75) The Kick Inside, Kate Bush - EMI EMC 3223.
      66 (81) 20 Golden Greats, The Beach Boys — Capitol EMTV 1.
      67 (54) Rumours. Fleetwood Mac - Warner Brothers K 56344.
      68 (49) Street Machine, Sammy Hagar — Capitol EST 11983.
      69 (94) Bop Till You Drop, Ry Cooder — Warner Brothers K 56691.
      69 (63) The Great Rock And Roll Swindle, Sex Pistols — Virgin VD 2510.


      71 (—) A New World Record. Electric Light Orchestra — Jet JETLP 200.
      72 (40) Some Product Carri On Sex Pistols, Sex Pistols — Virgin VR 2.
      73 (62) Fear Of Music. Talking Heads - Sire SRK 6076.
      74 (—) Rust Never Sleeps, Neil Young and Crazy Horse — Reprise K 54105.
      75 (59) Look Sharp, Joe Jackson - A&M AMLH 64743.

      Most respectfully

      Germanicus

      Comment


      • #28
        Originally posted by Germanicus View Post

        My respects for your comments MickJav and no disinformation intended.

        I truly enjoy and appreciate the website.

        Thank you for your input.

        I did send a PM to Database Dreams about this very Post

        Most respectfully

        Germanicus
        No Problem, Just glad it was pointed out before I unintentionally got myself in hot water with the OCC.

        I would also note that ONLY the current week's charts can be viewed in full by guests, all other weeks are restricted to the first page for guests, But I'm still refining that for charts with charts below 25 entries.

        Most of the data for the 60-70's was added nearly 20 years ago, and I am continually updating where I find errors, To help me with that task I'm thinking of building an error reporting system.
        Anyway thanks to kingofskiffle & OP for pointing out the banner issue.

        All the best

        Mick Database Dreams Music & Charts

        Comment


        • #29
          Originally posted by MickJav View Post

          No Problem, Just glad it was pointed out before I unintentionally got myself in hot water with the OCC.

          I would also note that ONLY the current week's charts can be viewed in full by guests, all other weeks are restricted to the first page for guests, But I'm still refining that for charts with charts below 25 entries.

          Most of the data for the 60-70's was added nearly 20 years ago, and I am continually updating where I find errors, To help me with that task I'm thinking of building an error reporting system.
          Anyway thanks to kingofskiffle & OP for pointing out the banner issue.

          All the best

          Mick Database Dreams Music & Charts
          Thank you MickJav

          No offense intended

          I am actually registered on your website

          Most respectfully

          Germanicus

          Comment


          • #30
            Originally posted by bankcottage001 View Post
            It's just a personal thing for me, but I take no notice of anything on the OCC website. In my opinion they have tried to rewrite chart history.
            Hello bankcottage001

            In relation to your post above.

            What should be used as a more accurate guide or greater point of reference please?

            Most respectfully

            ​​​​​​​Germanicus

            Comment


            • #31
              ^ Anything compiled by KingofSkiffle!!!

              Comment


              • kingofskiffle
                kingofskiffle commented
                Editing a comment
                Thank you! Modesty forbids a response from me on that though!

            • #32
              Originally posted by Gambo View Post
              ^ Anything compiled by KingofSkiffle!!!
              Hello Gambo My Friend

              I have already purchased from kingofskiffle

              UK Albums Volume 1 – 1956-1969
              Decade 1990
              Decade 2000
              Disc Complete Singles Albums
              Melody Maker 1958-1969 Albums
              MM_1960_S_V1
              NME Albums 1962-1969
              NME Singles 1970-79
              The Decade Series - 1970's

              So this reference to kingofskiffle, I agree with you.

              I was thinking more along the lines of an easy access archived website other than UKMIX

              All is good My Friend

              Most respectfully

              Germanicus

              Comment


              • #33
                One of the reasons I produce the books in the first place is that nobody else is doing that. The source for the offixial UK charts is the OCC website and Polyhex for the Top 75. The Big Top 40 maintain their chart archive and that’s largely it. Nobody seems to have a proper archive of the older charts and I tried to plug that gap.

                it’s not the same in America as Cashbox is represented but some of the others such as Record World are sadly lacking as well.
                http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                Comment


                • #34
                  Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
                  One of the reasons I produce the books in the first place is that nobody else is doing that. The source for the offixial UK charts is the OCC website and Polyhex for the Top 75. The Big Top 40 maintain their chart archive and that’s largely it. Nobody seems to have a proper archive of the older charts and I tried to plug that gap.

                  it’s not the same in America as Cashbox is represented but some of the others such as Record World are sadly lacking as well.
                  My respects always kingofskiffle

                  I love your books

                  I appreciate you pointing this out to me OCC website and Polyhex for the Top 75 & The Big Top 40
                  oh and Database Dreams just to add to the mix

                  I agree with your assessment Record World are sadly lacking as well as Variety

                  I appreciate them very much

                  Germanicus

                  Comment


                  • #35
                    One feature that I would like on a chart collection is new release dates. So underneath each chart would be the significant new releases that week, with some info about each one. Then you could see how long it took them to reach the charts and (if applicable) re-enter later. Or, in the case of noteworthy misses (subsequently recognised classics, gaps in an established artist's chart run, turntable hits etc.) how they never reached the charts!

                    Comment


                    • #36
                      Originally posted by Splodj View Post
                      One feature that I would like on a chart collection is new release dates. So underneath each chart would be the significant new releases that week, with some info about each one. Then you could see how long it took them to reach the charts and (if applicable) re-enter later. Or, in the case of noteworthy misses (subsequently recognised classics, gaps in an established artist's chart run, turntable hits etc.) how they never reached the charts!
                      You can see a lot of that info on my Analysis which Is still a work in progress as have additional information to add like covers versions, other releases I.E. remixes that may have charted separately Plus a bit more

                      For all the new entries etc https://www.databasedreams.co.uk/cha...2023-03-16#new

                      Comment


                      • #37
                        ^ I must say, over time I've become much more release-date-focused than chart entry-date-led. I am a bit anally retentive and obsessive about ordering certain parts of my own music catalogue in strict date order, and with the correct, consistent dating system applied throughout. I find it's as good a way as any to order one's music, and while sometimes juxtapositions of certain wildly different songs are awkward, it does throw up some really diverse stuff which wouldn't ordinarily share a playlist based on say genre or a singular artist - such has been the diversity of our pop music over the years.

                        As an example, my 1980s and 1990s selected Top 40 singles compilations are all ordered chronologically by date they entered the 75 in their main chart run, mainly because that was all that was readily available to me when they were assembled retrospectively from various sources, and I didn't dare assume anything else more detailed would ever see the light of day, even online. But that was before I discovered UKMix, Buzzjack et al! So for the my 2000s and 2010s selected singles I opted not to confine them to just the Top 40 or date them by chart entry; rather I ordered them by release date, which was by then far easier to determine and as I was concocting these contemporaneously the task was relatively simple. While the '00s and '10s selections are much longer as they were purchases on download or CD at the time regardless of chart performance, in an ideal world, I'd now prefer to expand my '80s and '90s collections beyond just the Top 40, and reorder them according to original release dates. The latter is I'm pleased to say now more possible thanks to digitisation of old Music Week/Record Mirror/Record Business issues, albeit that it would take a lot of time to research each and every single I want featured. Sadly the former isn't as easy as it should be, as there remain various songs that still don't appear on streaming sites, or even via download, and compiling old school physical compilation CDs from physical formats just isn't realistic anymore given the lack of stores from which to source material not already owned (not to mention the cost). But whatever becomes of this personal pet project, I definitely believe release date orders are the most 'pure' means of managing a catalogue via chronological means, as the charts - and whether or not a single sold enough in any week to chart - are such a fickle thing, and depending the period don't necessarily always reflect what was really being issued afresh at that time.

                        Another project is compiling best-seller charts for years and decades for my own interest, citing certain key information about each song that for better or worse, love it or hate it, has performed well enough to have sold a certain amount, or reached the Top 100 of any given period. Once upon a time, obtaining release data was really tricky (even the published tomes of the past often didn't get this right and would give initial chart entry date for "release" which will really peeve chart obsessives!), but happily, the task of establishing the exact day (or at least week) is much easier and I think an essential piece of info for lists such as these, along with peak chart position, date of peak, and if available, a rough current total tally of overall sales. Sadly the OCC, while not useless by any means and a vast improvement on their previous performance, still simply don't help anywhere near as much as one would expect or hope when researching some of these things. They should be THE main source for this kind of stuff, but alas they're falling well short of that ambition. And so it is very pleasing - in fact I'd say vital - that there are such dedicated folks as KOS around who are willing to devote such large tranches of both time and money to amassing the plethora of useful data on popular music from a myriad of digital and physical sources, and then presenting the relevant results to us, for very little in return really, in a format we can all appreciate, by way of filling the many gaps.

                        If I'd been the head of the OCC, I'd have picked up on some of our users' fine efforts chart-wise and sales-wise years ago and offered them the job of sorting out their historical data and how it's presented via their website! Mind you, I'm not convinced any of them would accept such an offer now even if it came?!!

                        Comment


                        • #38
                          I’d do the job… with the right agreement - 1. Ability to use the data as I choose. 2. Lifetime access to the OCC database
                          http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                          Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                          Comment


                          • #39
                            Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
                            I’d do the job… with the right agreement - 1. Ability to use the data as I choose. 2. Lifetime access to the OCC database
                            The OCC would be in good hands kingofskiffle if that was offered to you.

                            That would be a win - win

                            We as 'consumers' would have the right person for the job, as in you, looking after everyone's best interests

                            That Top 200 would, I am certain, be finally available for all to see.

                            My respects always

                            Germanicus

                            Comment


                            • #40
                              Originally posted by kingofskiffle View Post
                              Actually, the RM chart as a Top 30 was the same top 15 and a breakers chart, sometimes in alphabetical order, sometimes not. I've not researched properly the RM gaps, but they always missed around Easter anyway, although it is thanks to RM I have found that missing chart for 4 Oct 69.
                              Dear kingofskiffle / UKMIX family

                              An ALBUM CHARTS Question.

                              I read what you wrote re 1969 and the Top 15 ALBUM CHARTS

                              I found it incredible that the OCC Chart [Record Retailer] was virtually stable up to a point
                              re Chart Top positions then did a spiral down.

                              I did a deep dive into and thought What the hell happened here

                              These are the actual Top Position Chart numbers / positions for a period of time that the OCC projected.

                              The Chart was a TOP 40 for a period of time as you would be aware.

                              However from 9 February 1969 - 15 February 1969 the Chart drops to a Top 15, then a Top 20 and so on.

                              My question is :

                              Does anyone know if the positions above the Top 15 up to say a Top 40 were ever compiled and has anyone
                              seen these Chart placements.

                              I have highlighted in bold the chart dates I am interested in

                              Your thoughts and assistance please

                              Most respectfully

                              Germanicus

                              Observations I found... not my work.

                              2 February 1969 - 8 February 1969

                              - BBC ENDS ITS OWN AVERAGE CHART

                              - Week Ending 15 February 1969 - 1st Chart of "Official" Era -

                              Record Retailer - BBC / Compiled by British Market Research Bureau (BRMB)
                              BMRB Top 50 / From 15 Feb. 1969 to May 1978

                              Saturday 15th February - The BMRB start providing the 'official' UK Top 50 singles
                              chart to the BBC. Record Mirror publishes the Top 30 and Record Retailer carries
                              the entire Top 50

                              Saturday 15th February - The Record Retailer lists the Top 15 LP albums only

                              Saturday 8th March - The Record Retailer lists separate ,budget' and 'full price' album
                              charts for one week only

                              Saturday 14th June - The Record Retailer lists the Top 20 LP albums

                              Saturday 28th June to 2nd October - The Record Retailer lists the Top 40 LP albums

                              Thursday 9th October - The Record Retailer only lists the Top 32 LP albums, after
                              which its LP chart numbers fluctuate between Top 20 and Top 25 to the end of 1969
                              Melody Maker and NME both reduce their sample pool to 100 outlets and compile their
                              charts on a Thursday/Friday in advance of the BMRB chart issued on Saturdays

                              Not a good start I would think.

                              29 December 1968 - 4 January 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              5 January 1969 - 11 January 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              12 January 1969 - 18 January 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              19 January 1969 - 25 January 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              26 January 1969 - 1 February 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              2 February 1969 - 8 February 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              9 February 1969 - 15 February 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 15
                              16 February 1969 - 22 February 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 15
                              23 February 1969 - 1 March 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 15
                              2 March 1969 - 8 March 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 15
                              9 March 1969 - 15 March 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 15
                              16 March 1969 - 22 March 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 15
                              23 March 1969 - 29 March 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 15
                              30 March 1969 - 5 April 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 15
                              6 April 1969 - 12 April 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 15
                              13 April 1969 - 19 April 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 15
                              20 April 1969 - 26 April 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 15
                              27 April 1969 - 3 May 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 16
                              4 May 1969 - 10 May 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 15
                              11 May 1969 - 17 May 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 15
                              18 May 1969 - 24 May 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 15
                              25 May 1969 - 31 May 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 15
                              1 June 1969 - 7 June 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 15
                              8 June 1969 - 14 June 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 20
                              15 June 1969 - 21 June 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 20

                              22 June 1969 - 28 June 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              29 June 1969 - 5 July 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              6 July 1969 - 12 July 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              13 July 1969 - 19 July 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              20 July 1969 - 26 July 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              27 July 1969 - 2 August 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              3 August 1969 - 9 August 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 32
                              10 August 1969 - 16 August 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              17 August 1969 - 23 August 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              24 August 1969 - 30 August 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              31 August 1969 - 6 September 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              7 September 1969 - 13 September 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              14 September 1969 - 20 September 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              21 September 1969 - 27 September 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              28 September 1969 - 4 October 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 40
                              5 October 1969 - 11 October 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 25
                              12 October 1969 - 18 October 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 25
                              19 October 1969 - 25 October 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 25
                              26 October 1969 - 1 November 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 22
                              2 November 1969 - 8 November 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 24
                              9 November 1969 - 15 November 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 24
                              16 November 1969 - 22 November 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 24
                              23 November 1969 - 29 November 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 24
                              30 November 1969 - 6 December 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 23
                              7 December 1969 - 13 December 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 23
                              14 December 1969 - 20 December 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 23
                              21 December 1969 - 27 December 1969 - Official Albums Chart Top 20
                              28 December 1969 - 3 January 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 20
                              4 January 1970 - 10 January 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 20
                              11 January 1970 - 17 January 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 20

                              18 January 1970 - 24 January 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 58
                              25 January 1970 - 31 January 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 55
                              1 February 1970 - 7 February 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 56
                              8 February 1970 - 14 February 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 55
                              15 February 1970 - 21 February 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 59
                              22 February 1970 - 28 February 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 57
                              1 March 1970 - 7 March 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 54
                              8 March 1970 - 14 March 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 58
                              15 March 1970 - 21 March 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 53
                              22 March 1970 - 28 March 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 47
                              29 March 1970 - 4 April 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 50
                              5 April 1970 - 11 April 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 55
                              12 April 1970 - 18 April 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 60
                              19 April 1970 - 25 April 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 63
                              26 April 1970 - 2 May 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 68
                              3 May 1970 - 9 May 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 67
                              10 May 1970 - 16 May 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 62
                              17 May 1970 - 23 May 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 65
                              24 May 1970 - 30 May 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 62
                              31 May 1970 - 6 June 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 70
                              7 June 1970 - 13 June 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 60
                              14 June 1970 - 20 June 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 63
                              21 June 1970 - 27 June 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 65
                              28 June 1970 - 4 July 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 65
                              5 July 1970 - 11 July 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 73
                              12 July 1970 - 18 July 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 66
                              19 July 1970 - 25 July 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 65
                              26 July 1970 - 1 August 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 77
                              2 August 1970 - 8 August 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 73
                              9 August 1970 - 15 August 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 66
                              16 August 1970 - 22 August 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 72
                              23 August 1970 - 29 August 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 66
                              30 August 1970 - 5 September 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 73
                              6 September 1970 - 12 September 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 75
                              13 September 1970 - 19 September 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 69
                              20 September 1970 - 26 September 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 71
                              27 September 1970 - 3 October 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 70
                              4 October 1970 - 10 October 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 68
                              11 October 1970 - 17 October 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 72
                              18 October 1970 - 24 October 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 66
                              25 October 1970 - 31 October 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 57
                              1 November 1970 - 7 November 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 59
                              8 November 1970 - 14 November 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 46
                              15 November 1970 - 21 November 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 53
                              22 November 1970 - 28 November 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 55
                              29 November 1970 - 5 December 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 55
                              6 December 1970 - 12 December 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 58
                              13 December 1970 - 19 December 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 59
                              20 December 1970 - 26 December 1970 - Official Albums Chart Top 58
                              27 December 1970 - 2 January 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 58
                              3 January 1971 - 9 January 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 53
                              10 January 1971 - 16 January 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 50
                              17 January 1971 - 23 January 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 50
                              24 January 1971 - 30 January 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 50
                              31 January 1971 - 6 February 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 29
                              7 February 1971 - 13 February 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 29
                              14 February 1971 - 20 February 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 30
                              21 February 1971 - 27 February 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 30
                              28 February 1971 - 6 March 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 30
                              7 March 1971 - 13 March 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 29
                              14 March 1971 - 20 March 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 29
                              21 March 1971 - 27 March 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 30

                              28 March 1971 - 3 April 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 50
                              4 April 1971 - 10 April 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 50
                              11 April 1971 - 17 April 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 50
                              18 April 1971 - 24 April 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 50
                              25 April 1971 - 1 May 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 50
                              2 May 1971 - 8 May 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 49
                              9 May 1971 - 15 May 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 50
                              16 May 1971 - 22 May 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 50
                              23 May 1971 - 29 May 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 50
                              30 May 1971 - 5 June 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 50
                              6 June 1971 - 12 June 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 50
                              13 June 1971 - 19 June 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 50
                              20 June 1971 - 26 June 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 50
                              27 June 1971 - 3 July 1971 - Official Albums Chart Top 50

                              Comment


                              • #41
                                I don't know the answer to your question Germanicus, were LP positions up to a Top 40 compiled. I would guess yes, that BMRB did compile them, as they should have had the data, but RR and RM (and maybe the BBC) most likely decided not to use them, in the early days of 1969. BMRB were still working out the kinks, they probably didn't have a lot of shops turning in their data for LPs. Supposedly their goal was to get 250 shops to turn in their data for their SINGLES sales, with another 50 to do a comparison check, but as Alan Smith has speculated based on all the ties on the SINGLES chart, they were lucky to have gotten 50 shops reporting in early 1969. That's why the BMRB SINGLES charts have so many ties in early 1969.

                                So the BMRB LP data was probably equally as suspect, not enough info to compile a meaningful chart, probably a lot of radical chart movements week to week at the lower positions. So in order to avoid lots of questions about what the heck they were doing, they probably just cut it off at 15 positions. In hindsight, RR should have kept their previous LP chart going as it was, a Top 40 based on averaged shop rankings, and only switch over to the sales based BMRB LPs when they got everything stabilized in June 1969. It is definitely a mess there. Along those lines, the OCC should probably drop these BMRB charts as 'official' Feb to June 1969, and instead go with the Melody Maker Top 20 LPs.

                                I don't recall what happened Oct 1969-Jan 1970 off the top of my head, someone else can chime in there. But Feb-Mar 1971 was a postal strike. I think the Guinness books decided years (decades?) later to fill in these missing months (which they originally froze) with the Melody Maker LP charts, after Alan Smith approached them and lobbied for it.

                                Comment


                                • #42
                                  From when BMRB began to compile the charts in February 1969 to some point in 1978 (it may have been May 1978) BMRB compiled a top 120 album list which included albums of all prices, from full price through to mid-price to budget. It looks likely that Record retailer / Music Week compiled its own chart from the listing BMRB supplied. Or perhaps BMRB compiled the chart according to the wishes of RR/MW. In 1969 this meant a full price chart. From some point mid priced albums were included and for a while budget albums were also included before being banished from the charts. Various Artist albums were also included, then excluded then included again over the first 6 years of the BMRB compiled albums chart.

                                  The reason why the albums chart varied in length for a while is most likely those were the albums left after budget albums (and possibly mid-price albums too at some stage) had been removed from the 120 best selling albums list and RR/MW printed them all.

                                  Comment


                                  • #43
                                    Robin above mentions that in the early days of the chart BMRB struggled to get 300 shops to return diaries each week (in order to use 250 as the sample / panel size). From what I have seen this problem continued for a number of years, possibly until the latter half of the 1970s. For the singles charts, the diaries they did get were weighted to produce a panel sales figure that was meant to represent sales in a hypothetical 250 strong panel. For some reason it was not possible to do this for albums and BMRB simply used all the sales diaries they received without weighting being applied. It suggests that perhaps a number of shops didn't provide much in the way of maeningful album sales data. Maybe a number of dealers mainly sold budget albums. It possibly meant that a fair amount of the top 120 of any particular week were excluded and there wasn't enough albums left to compile a proper Top 50 Albums chart.

                                    Comment


                                    • #44
                                      Why does the OCC website use those dates?

                                      For example, the first BMRB singles chart is dated Wednesday 12-Feb-69 but the first albums chart as above is dated Sunday 9-Feb-69.

                                      You could say the singles chart date is the day RR magazine went to press, and the albums chart date is designed so that the 7th day is that specified on RR magazine. But they are completely different criteria for the same week.

                                      Comment


                                      • #45
                                        Dear Splodj

                                        You are absolutely correct and it is very confusing - I do want to scream [SCREAM]

                                        For those who are not aware, the following is what is on the OCC Chart for the singles and album Charts for the week that Splodj is referring to

                                        - 1st Chart of "Official" Era - !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


                                        OCC 9.JPG

                                        -
                                        https://www.officialcharts.com/chart...19690212/7501/

                                        -
                                        OCC 8.JPG

                                        -
                                        https://www.officialcharts.com/chart...19690209/7502/

                                        Most respectfully

                                        Germanicus

                                        Comment


                                        • #46
                                          Originally posted by RokinRobinOfLocksley View Post
                                          I don't know the answer to your question Germanicus, were LP positions up to a Top 40 compiled. I would guess yes, that BMRB did compile them, as they should have had the data, but RR and RM (and maybe the BBC) most likely decided not to use them, in the early days of 1969. BMRB were still working out the kinks, they probably didn't have a lot of shops turning in their data for LPs. Supposedly their goal was to get 250 shops to turn in their data for their SINGLES sales, with another 50 to do a comparison check, but as Alan Smith has speculated based on all the ties on the SINGLES chart, they were lucky to have gotten 50 shops reporting in early 1969. That's why the BMRB SINGLES charts have so many ties in early 1969.

                                          So the BMRB LP data was probably equally as suspect, not enough info to compile a meaningful chart, probably a lot of radical chart movements week to week at the lower positions. So in order to avoid lots of questions about what the heck they were doing, they probably just cut it off at 15 positions. In hindsight, RR should have kept their previous LP chart going as it was, a Top 40 based on averaged shop rankings, and only switch over to the sales based BMRB LPs when they got everything stabilized in June 1969. It is definitely a mess there. Along those lines, the OCC should probably drop these BMRB charts as 'official' Feb to June 1969, and instead go with the Melody Maker Top 20 LPs.

                                          I don't recall what happened Oct 1969-Jan 1970 off the top of my head, someone else can chime in there. But Feb-Mar 1971 was a postal strike. I think the Guinness books decided years (decades?) later to fill in these missing months (which they originally froze) with the Melody Maker LP charts, after Alan Smith approached them and lobbied for it.
                                          Thank you RokinRobinOfLocksley

                                          Don't worry my friend, you are in good hands, I also don't know the answer to my question. :-)

                                          However, what you have stated is informative, as always. Further it has prompted more responses.

                                          Thank you.

                                          It does help me to understand other factors in compiling and publishing the Chart in that period.

                                          I agree with your assessment : -

                                          In hindsight, RR should have kept their previous LP chart going as it was, a Top 40 based on averaged shop rankings,
                                          and only switch over to the sales based BMRB LPs when they got everything stabilized in June 1969. It is definitely a
                                          mess there. Along those lines, the OCC should probably drop these BMRB charts as 'official' Feb to June 1969, and
                                          instead go with the Melody Maker Top 20 LPs.


                                          I also did not know the following either - only switch over to the sales based BMRB LPs when they got everything stabilized in June 1969.

                                          Most respectfully

                                          Germanicus

                                          Comment


                                          • #47
                                            Originally posted by Germanicus View Post


                                            In hindsight, RR should have kept their previous LP chart going as it was, a Top 40 based on averaged shop rankings,
                                            and only switch over to the sales based BMRB LPs when they got everything stabilized in June 1969. It is definitely a
                                            mess there. Along those lines, the OCC should probably drop these BMRB charts as 'official' Feb to June 1969, and
                                            instead go with the Melody Maker Top 20 LPs.


                                            I also did not know the following either - only switch over to the sales based BMRB LPs when they got everything stabilized in June 1969.

                                            Most respectfully

                                            Germanicus
                                            Rockin'Robin is making a suggestion of what RR should've done and is not stating what they did. It (probably) would'nt be such a mess if they'd kept the old system until June when they'd perfected the new system a little more....

                                            Comment


                                            • #48
                                              Originally posted by braindeadpj View Post

                                              Rockin'Robin is making a suggestion of what RR should've done and is not stating what they did. It (probably) would'nt be such a mess if they'd kept the old system until June when they'd perfected the new system a little more....
                                              Thank you My Friend

                                              Yes I understand and i totally agree with your post and Rockin'Robin

                                              Most respectfully

                                              Germanicus

                                              Comment


                                              • #49
                                                Traditionally, when the first Guinness book came out, they took the date that the paper hit the streets, which was a Wednesday, Thursday or a Saturday at various points over the decades until the end of 1969.

                                                When the first albums book came out, Guinness had bene doing the Singles chart books for a few years (Singles came out in 1977 and Albums in 1983 and I have both first editions - well first issues, they may be re-prints at the time sourced off eBay for a few pounds years ago.) So they chose to use a standard Saturday date throughout.

                                                Guinness decided quite a lot about how we view the earlier charts....

                                                Re the chart size: I'd imagine that sales were low or unreliable below the Top 15. The early charts include breakers in alphabetical order (See the intro to my Albums book) and I've alway assumed that sales were minimal below the Top 15 or so in the very early days, so they may well have taken the decision to do a alphabetical order to simply remove any errors. Again, Guinness only used the Top 15 and did not mention anything else...

                                                I have seen one albums listing from 1973 with sales attached and it is a Top 100 at that point (With no indication of additional positions) and sales down at 100 where in the 40's, with multiple positions selling the same number of copies. The Mid Price chart is extracted for this Top 100, which is a chart of all sellers. This largely explains why the Top 50, plus 10 position Mid Price plus 7 position breakers is what they are at the time.

                                                I have seen some printings of Sounds that used the full un-edited listing (They printed a Top 30).
                                                http://thechartbook.co.uk - for the latest are best chart book - By Decade!
                                                Now including NME, Record Mirror and Melody Maker from the UK and some Billboard charts

                                                Comment


                                                • #50
                                                  Originally posted by Robbie View Post
                                                  Robin above mentions that in the early days of the chart BMRB struggled to get 300 shops to return diaries each week (in order to use 250 as the sample / panel size). From what I have seen this problem continued for a number of years, possibly until the latter half of the 1970s. For the singles charts, the diaries they did get were weighted to produce a panel sales figure that was meant to represent sales in a hypothetical 250 strong panel. For some reason it was not possible to do this for albums and BMRB simply used all the sales diaries they received without weighting being applied. It suggests that perhaps a number of shops didn't provide much in the way of maeningful album sales data. Maybe a number of dealers mainly sold budget albums. It possibly meant that a fair amount of the top 120 of any particular week were excluded and there wasn't enough albums left to compile a proper Top 50 Albums chart.
                                                  Hello Robbie

                                                  I enjoyed reading your two posts

                                                  To think they compiled a Top 120. It would be great to see those charts.

                                                  It is this post that I found interesting also.

                                                  in the early days of the chart BMRB struggled to get 300 shops to return diaries each week (in order to use 250 as the sample / panel size)

                                                  I read the following :

                                                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                                  Before 1969 there was no official singles chart. Record Retailer and the BBC commissioned the British
                                                  Market Research Bureau (BMRB) to compile charts, beginning 15 February 1969. The BMRB compiled its
                                                  first chart from postal returns of sales logs from 250 record shops.

                                                  The sampling cost approximately 52,000; shops were randomly chosen from a pool of approximately
                                                  6,000
                                                  , and submitted figures for sales taken up to the close of trade on Saturday. The sales diaries were
                                                  translated into punch cards so the data could be interpreted by a computer. A computer then compiled the
                                                  chart on Monday, and the BBC were informed of the Top 50 on Tuesday in time for it to be announced
                                                  on Johnnie Walker's afternoon show.

                                                  However, the BMRB often struggled to have the full sample of sales figures returned by post. The 1971
                                                  postal strike meant data had to be collected by telephone (and that the chart was reduced to a Top 40
                                                  during this period), but this was deemed inadequate for a national chart; by 1973, the BMRB was using
                                                  motorcycle couriers to collect sales figures.


                                                  Record Retailer - BBC / Compiled by British Market Research Bureau (BRMB) BMRB Top 50 / From
                                                  15 Feb. 1969 to May 1978

                                                  Saturday 15th February - The BMRB start providing the 'official' UK Top 50 singles chart to the BBC.
                                                  Record Mirror publishes the Top 30 and Record Retailer carries the entire Top 50

                                                  --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                                                  The above begs the question, with all their resources at hand, that they struggled to get 300 shops to return
                                                  diaries each week (in order to use 250 as the sample / panel size) out of a pool of 6000
                                                  .
                                                  Seems like it was
                                                  not the correct move at that time.

                                                  Considering that Melody Maker and N.M.E, to a lesser extent Top Pops and Music Now Charts were able
                                                  to compile and release their charts, it appears that the OCC possibly should have not been created at that time
                                                  and that the BBC should have stuck to the format that had been successful.

                                                  More so if you consider that for that strike period in 1971, the OCC / Guinness agreed to accept Alan Smith's
                                                  lobbying Melody Maker LP charts to use that Chart as authentic. Then that in my mind says many things.

                                                  Going back to those Top 15 Charts etc, I believe would have meant that there were many Albums that
                                                  missed out on Charting or Chart runs reduced, which otherwise would have not been the case if there was a
                                                  Top 40 - Top 50

                                                  or as you state :

                                                  The reason why the albums chart varied in length for a while is most likely those were the albums
                                                  left after budget albums (and possibly mid-price albums too at some stage) had been removed from
                                                  the 120 best selling albums list and RR/MW printed them all.


                                                  Wow 6000 shops to chose from and the OCC struggles. I would also say that what they thought they were
                                                  going to achieve, did not occur due to technological restraints.

                                                  Again thank you Robbie. I appreciate your response. I am still learning.

                                                  Most respectfully

                                                  Germanicus

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