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  • Originally posted by rubcale
    Up to a few years ago anyone could go along to the BPI Library in North London and look through files which gave all the panel sales right the way back.

    A number of people did which is why there is exact info.
    Yes, the Gallup weekly reports and some of the BMRB weeklies were on the shelves in the BPI library, which was actually at The Riverside Building, near the London Eye. Before that they were at Savile Row. You could look at any of these reports you wanted to. You had to have made an appointment to be there, though. I imagine Dave Taylor did much the same, or is quoting someone else who did.

    BPI statistics on many aspects of the record industry could be found in the BPI Yearbook series, which was later replaced by the BPI Statistical Handbook series. I have many of these books, but they were also in the BPI library and most of them are at The British Library at St Pancras.

    Back issues of Music Week can also be found at St Pancras, or at The British Newspaper Library at Colindale in north London, another old haunt of mine and there are other regulars posting on here. Westminster Music Library also had back issues, which was useful if I only had time to get to central London. Or you could use these libraries to read back issues of Record Mirror to find out what Alan Jones had written about each week's chart.

    Comment


    • Removed
      Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

      Comment


      • Graham, thank you ever so much!
        Those pdfs are amazing!!! I'm very pleased to see those Indie, Dance, Heavy Metal Charts. Can you post the same various Charts from other years before and after '87?
        There are things which are not clear to me concerning the subject. Record Mirror also was publishing their Indie and Dance Charts. Did both magazines use the same approach in compiling these special Charts as they did with the main pop chart? In fact, not only RM and RB were posting their Special Charts those days. Sounds, NME, MM also were doing this.
        So was there the best (most accurate and most respectable) source for such Charts in your opinion?

        Great articles as well, Graham! Seems like the first article taken from an early Spring of '87 as they reffered to Boy George's "Everything I Own" as recent No.1.
        Nice graphs there explaning the difference in compiling the Charts between the Gallup and MRIB.
        I'm looking for "TOP POPS/MUSIC NOW" and "MERSEYBEAT / MUSIC ECHO" Charts to complete my 60's singles charts collection.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by andrej
          Graham, thank you ever so much!
          Those pdfs are amazing!!! I'm very pleased to see those Indie, Dance, Heavy Metal Charts. Can you post the same various Charts from other years before and after '87?
          There are things which are not clear to me concerning the subject. Record Mirror also was publishing their Indie and Dance Charts. Did both magazines use the same approach in compiling these special Charts as they did with the main pop chart? In fact, not only RM and RB were posting their Special Charts those days. Sounds, NME, MM also were doing this.
          So was there the best (most accurate and most respectable) source for such Charts in your opinion?

          Great articles as well, Graham! Seems like the first article taken from an early Spring of '87 as they reffered to Boy George's "Everything I Own" as recent No.1.
          Nice graphs there explaning the difference in compiling the Charts between the Gallup and MRIB.
          The first article is from Record Mirror dated 9 May 1987.

          The dance charts in Record Mirror were compiled from DJ dance floor reaction returns and had been since the first chart was compiled in something like 1974. By 1987 the chart was compiled mainly by Alan Jones with help from the original compiler, James Hamilton. Alan Jones began to compile the chart by himself from the mid 80s and still does to this day. The indie charts in Record Mirror were compiled by Spotlight Research, an offshoot of Spotlight Publications who were the publishers of Record Mirror, Sounds and Music Week. I have a feeling that Spotlight Research were basically Alan Jones of Record Mirror and Bob McDonald of Gallup. The chart was compiled from sales returns from independent stores and it looks like only singles and albums released on independent labels were able to chart.

          I think Record Business and later its offshoot MRIB compiled its dance charts from purely sales (though whether it was from a subset of record stores I don't know) and the method for compiling its independent charts were exactly the same as that of Spotlight Research, sales of independently released records and sales from independent stores only.

          Comment


          • I like the article that features Mark Goodier, especially where he says of the preparation for the top 40 "We try to make sure we have every single record because we play every single tune in the 40. And luckily we've never been caught out!". A year after this article was published Radio 1 nearly were caught out. Production House, the label behind the massive club hit 'Trip II The Moon' by Acen refused to provide Radio 1 with a copy of the single and when the new chart arrived at Radio 1 on Sunday 2 August 1992 showing that the single had charted at number 38 a production assistant was summoned to go out and find a copy of the single. Given that Sunday trading was uncommon at the time the assistant had to contact the store manager of HMV on Oxford Street to see if he could open up so that Radio 1 could buy a copy of the single! And even then they nearly didn't get to buy the single as the store was down to its last two copies.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Robbie
              The first article is from Record Mirror dated 9 May 1987.

              The dance charts in Record Mirror were compiled from DJ dance floor reaction returns and had been since the first chart was compiled in something like 1974. By 1987 the chart was compiled mainly by Alan Jones with help from the original compiler, James Hamilton. Alan Jones began to compile the chart by himself from the mid 80s and still does to this day. The indie charts in Record Mirror were compiled by Spotlight Research, an offshoot of Spotlight Publications who were the publishers of Record Mirror, Sounds and Music Week. I have a feeling that Spotlight Research were basically Alan Jones of Record Mirror and Bob McDonald of Gallup. The chart was compiled from sales returns from independent stores and it looks like only singles and albums released on independent labels were able to chart.

              I think Record Business and later its offshoot MRIB compiled its dance charts from purely sales (though whether it was from a subset of record stores I don't know) and the method for compiling its independent charts were exactly the same as that of Spotlight Research, sales of independently released records and sales from independent stores only.
              Thank you, Robbie.
              So looks like Record Mirror and Record Business really used the same approach: sales returns from independent stores on the records released by independent labels. And take into consideration the fact, that Sounds was in the same Spotlight Publications coalition along with Record Mirror, quite possible that they used this method too (if not the same Charts as RM).
              So the difference between them was purely the return shops they surveyed... and maybe the amount of such shops.
              I'm looking for "TOP POPS/MUSIC NOW" and "MERSEYBEAT / MUSIC ECHO" Charts to complete my 60's singles charts collection.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by andrej
                Originally posted by Robbie
                The first article is from Record Mirror dated 9 May 1987.

                The dance charts in Record Mirror were compiled from DJ dance floor reaction returns and had been since the first chart was compiled in something like 1974. By 1987 the chart was compiled mainly by Alan Jones with help from the original compiler, James Hamilton. Alan Jones began to compile the chart by himself from the mid 80s and still does to this day. The indie charts in Record Mirror were compiled by Spotlight Research, an offshoot of Spotlight Publications who were the publishers of Record Mirror, Sounds and Music Week. I have a feeling that Spotlight Research were basically Alan Jones of Record Mirror and Bob McDonald of Gallup. The chart was compiled from sales returns from independent stores and it looks like only singles and albums released on independent labels were able to chart.

                I think Record Business and later its offshoot MRIB compiled its dance charts from purely sales (though whether it was from a subset of record stores I don't know) and the method for compiling its independent charts were exactly the same as that of Spotlight Research, sales of independently released records and sales from independent stores only.
                Thank you, Robbie.
                So looks like Record Mirror and Record Business really used the same approach: sales returns from independent stores on the records released by independent labels. And take into consideration the fact, that Sounds was in the same Spotlight Publications coalition along with Record Mirror, quite possible that they used this method too (if not the same Charts as RM).
                So the difference between them was purely the return shops they surveyed... and maybe the amount of such shops.
                I've got a scan of a Record Mirror independent chart from 27 December 1980, back when they published the Record Business version of the chart, and at the bottom of the chart it says "Compiled by RB Research from a nationwide panel of 48 specialist shops. Only independently distributed records are eligible". Coincidentally the compiler of this chart by this point was Alan Jones or at least he was soon to take over compilation duties from Barry Lazell who compiled the first independent charts in January 1980. When Record Mirror began to publish the Spotlight Research version of the chart it looks like they kept the same qualifying criteria. What I don't know is what record stores they used, that is whether they kept the same stores that Record Business were using prior to going out of business or whether Spotlight Research possibly used a subset of record stores from Gallup's own chart panel or even if Spotlight Research used stores that didn't contribute sales information to any other chart including the main Singles and Albums charts.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Robbie
                  Originally posted by andrej
                  Graham, thank you ever so much!
                  Those pdfs are amazing!!! I'm very pleased to see those Indie, Dance, Heavy Metal Charts. Can you post the same various Charts from other years before and after '87?
                  There are things which are not clear to me concerning the subject. Record Mirror also was publishing their Indie and Dance Charts. Did both magazines use the same approach in compiling these special Charts as they did with the main pop chart? In fact, not only RM and RB were posting their Special Charts those days. Sounds, NME, MM also were doing this.
                  So was there the best (most accurate and most respectable) source for such Charts in your opinion?

                  Great articles as well, Graham! Seems like the first article taken from an early Spring of '87 as they reffered to Boy George's "Everything I Own" as recent No.1.
                  Nice graphs there explaning the difference in compiling the Charts between the Gallup and MRIB.
                  The first article is from Record Mirror dated 9 May 1987.

                  The dance charts in Record Mirror were compiled from DJ dance floor reaction returns and had been since the first chart was compiled in something like 1974. By 1987 the chart was compiled mainly by Alan Jones with help from the original compiler, James Hamilton. Alan Jones began to compile the chart by himself from the mid 80s and still does to this day. The indie charts in Record Mirror were compiled by Spotlight Research, an offshoot of Spotlight Publications who were the publishers of Record Mirror, Sounds and Music Week. I have a feeling that Spotlight Research were basically Alan Jones of Record Mirror and Bob McDonald of Gallup. The chart was compiled from sales returns from independent stores and it looks like only singles and albums released on independent labels were able to chart.

                  I think Record Business and later its offshoot MRIB compiled its dance charts from purely sales (though whether it was from a subset of record stores I don't know) and the method for compiling its independent charts were exactly the same as that of Spotlight Research, sales of independently released records and sales from independent stores only.
                  Spotlight Research were also the compilers of the Melody Maker chart in the mid to late 60s, too.

                  That explaination explaining Gallup & MRIB is from the Spring of 1987...Though Gallup (apparently said) they were about increase their poll (but according to MFR, didn't). MRIB (also apparently) going to rise for above 300. Though Mike said they were on 250 at that point. Obviously the 300 shops had to be the same ones as Record Business Research (well it was from the same computer, after all). Perhaps the 300 increased to 350 in mid 88 & not the 300, Mike suggested. Working to an "assumed" 6000 shops, Which (was likely to high a multiplier at 20) & the increase, would of put it much lower, which does really explain the high figure of Cliff Richard.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by Graham76man
                    I find it hard to believe that MFR doesn't or didn't work inside the Industry. The detailed information that he is giving isn't the type that researches can get hold of, unless they have contact with someone on the inside. The OCC site itself clearly states that sales information is confidential between Record Companies, Selling Sites and the Chart Company, so that implies information is hard to get hold on. Unless he just quotes Music Week!
                    Mind you, you know what they say about Newspapers! That you can't believe anything you read in one of them.

                    To answer his point. Adams was in that 1991 period of very high sales in the Real Chart, so with so many tracks competing for a place and perhaps poor distribution patterns, which wouldn't show up in the Chart Shops, he spent only a few weeks at number two, the rest of the time he is up and down like a see-saw.
                    On the top 100 currently posted on the blog site. Bryan Adams is on 4,709,000. But this would included any re-entries run from the download era. I should also point out that this list of best sellers only includes sales while in the top 100. Plus is not a full list of every record that sold 1 million. My current list stands at 299, plus the seven still in the top 100. Actually you can make that 8 as John Newman went to 1,001 when I added them up Thursday, which is when I add the sales totals up shown in the charts.
                    It's odd that as I was writing about the Brian Adams record in the top sellers, I was getting Frank Sinatra's My Way as being just ahead of him. Now I don't have the sales figures for that record, though I do know it went past 100 weeks in the Real Chart. The reason I know this was because I was doing the Real Charts for him, but had to stop after 99 weeks. The column that I used would only take the two figures, to go further would need to adjust every chart! So I gave up!
                    Generally when I get these insights they are the compilers telling me something. However I can't yet confirm that My Way shifted more than 4 million.

                    I don't believe it's one of the 140 that have sold a million. Yet another mystery for the OCC chart if it's not. How many weeks was it in the official charts?
                    My Way (apparently) shifted as little as under 625,000 between 1969 & 1972. Well open to question, I think you'd agree Graham? Though in comparison, this would of not included any information from Woolworths, as they were not part of any panel until 1975. So, a make believe "250" poll is certainly some way out.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by davetaylor
                      Originally posted by Robbie
                      Originally posted by andrej
                      Graham, thank you ever so much!
                      Those pdfs are amazing!!! I'm very pleased to see those Indie, Dance, Heavy Metal Charts. Can you post the same various Charts from other years before and after '87?
                      There are things which are not clear to me concerning the subject. Record Mirror also was publishing their Indie and Dance Charts. Did both magazines use the same approach in compiling these special Charts as they did with the main pop chart? In fact, not only RM and RB were posting their Special Charts those days. Sounds, NME, MM also were doing this.
                      So was there the best (most accurate and most respectable) source for such Charts in your opinion?

                      Great articles as well, Graham! Seems like the first article taken from an early Spring of '87 as they reffered to Boy George's "Everything I Own" as recent No.1.
                      Nice graphs there explaning the difference in compiling the Charts between the Gallup and MRIB.
                      The first article is from Record Mirror dated 9 May 1987.

                      The dance charts in Record Mirror were compiled from DJ dance floor reaction returns and had been since the first chart was compiled in something like 1974. By 1987 the chart was compiled mainly by Alan Jones with help from the original compiler, James Hamilton. Alan Jones began to compile the chart by himself from the mid 80s and still does to this day. The indie charts in Record Mirror were compiled by Spotlight Research, an offshoot of Spotlight Publications who were the publishers of Record Mirror, Sounds and Music Week. I have a feeling that Spotlight Research were basically Alan Jones of Record Mirror and Bob McDonald of Gallup. The chart was compiled from sales returns from independent stores and it looks like only singles and albums released on independent labels were able to chart.

                      I think Record Business and later its offshoot MRIB compiled its dance charts from purely sales (though whether it was from a subset of record stores I don't know) and the method for compiling its independent charts were exactly the same as that of Spotlight Research, sales of independently released records and sales from independent stores only.
                      Spotlight Research were also the compilers of the Melody Maker chart in the mid to late 60s, too.

                      That explaination explaining Gallup & MRIB is from the Spring of 1987...Though Gallup (apparently said) they were about increase their poll (but according to MFR, didn't). MRIB (also apparently) going to rise for above 300. Though Mike said they were on 250 at that point. Obviously the 300 shops had to be the same ones as Record Business Research (well it was from the same computer, after all). Perhaps the 300 increased to 350 in mid 88 & not the 300, Mike suggested. Working to an "assumed" 6000 shops, Which (was likely to high a multiplier at 20) & the increase, would of put it much lower, which does really explain the high figure of Cliff Richard.
                      I didn't know that Spotlight Research were around in the 1960s. I notice in the wikipedia entry for Sounds it says that Spotlight Publications was formed by Jack Hutton and Peter Wilkinson when they left Melody Maker in what seems to be around 1970 with Sounds being their first venture.

                      If that is the case and they were the compilers of the Melody Maker charts in the mid to late 1960s it would suggest that Spotlight Research predates Spotlight Publications and presumably the name of the latter was a direct follow on from the name of the former. I wonder what, if any, charts Spotlight Research compiled in the 1970s? From what I can see it looks like Record Mirror didn't begin to publish any of their charts until the early part of the 1980s and at this point Alan Jones seems to have had some involvement.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by davetaylor
                        Originally posted by Robbie
                        Originally posted by andrej
                        Graham, thank you ever so much!
                        Those pdfs are amazing!!! I'm very pleased to see those Indie, Dance, Heavy Metal Charts. Can you post the same various Charts from other years before and after '87?
                        There are things which are not clear to me concerning the subject. Record Mirror also was publishing their Indie and Dance Charts. Did both magazines use the same approach in compiling these special Charts as they did with the main pop chart? In fact, not only RM and RB were posting their Special Charts those days. Sounds, NME, MM also were doing this.
                        So was there the best (most accurate and most respectable) source for such Charts in your opinion?

                        Great articles as well, Graham! Seems like the first article taken from an early Spring of '87 as they reffered to Boy George's "Everything I Own" as recent No.1.
                        Nice graphs there explaning the difference in compiling the Charts between the Gallup and MRIB.
                        The first article is from Record Mirror dated 9 May 1987.

                        The dance charts in Record Mirror were compiled from DJ dance floor reaction returns and had been since the first chart was compiled in something like 1974. By 1987 the chart was compiled mainly by Alan Jones with help from the original compiler, James Hamilton. Alan Jones began to compile the chart by himself from the mid 80s and still does to this day. The indie charts in Record Mirror were compiled by Spotlight Research, an offshoot of Spotlight Publications who were the publishers of Record Mirror, Sounds and Music Week. I have a feeling that Spotlight Research were basically Alan Jones of Record Mirror and Bob McDonald of Gallup. The chart was compiled from sales returns from independent stores and it looks like only singles and albums released on independent labels were able to chart.

                        I think Record Business and later its offshoot MRIB compiled its dance charts from purely sales (though whether it was from a subset of record stores I don't know) and the method for compiling its independent charts were exactly the same as that of Spotlight Research, sales of independently released records and sales from independent stores only.
                        Spotlight Research were also the compilers of the Melody Maker chart in the mid to late 60s, too.

                        That explaination explaining Gallup & MRIB is from the Spring of 1987...Though Gallup (apparently said) they were about increase their poll (but according to MFR, didn't).
                        This may require another clarification.

                        The number of shops in Gallup's sample did increase. What didn't change was that they continued to report the sales figures in terms of the standard panel of 250 shops, i.e. regardless of how many shops were actually polled, the figures were converted to be the equivalent of a 250-shop-poll for consistency of reporting purposes.

                        Comment


                        • Removed
                          Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                          Comment


                          • Now, i've learnt something Graham. Cheers for that.

                            The question remains did WHSmiths & Boots ever give any information? I very much doubt it. Or did they start doing so around 1981, in the expanded BMRB poll? I was always told they were doing so in 1971....So, perhaps it was 10 years later.

                            Of course, Northern Ireland were not part of any poll (apart from Melody Maker) until Gallup started to poll the country. That could of been the reason various MM charts, had differing #1s.

                            So, the market would of been a small panel, before 1975 anyway. 75% of sales in Woolworths, 10% through Smiths & Boots. Only 15% of shops in the UK surveyed, before '75, & this was supposed to be a true reflection of what we were buying. Though (in that case) there wasn't a large field of shops in the RB/MRIB run, apart from the Independants.

                            With all 3 stores missing, a make believe 5,000 shops certainly didn't cut. Goodness I'd love to see a list of those 250 shops. It could not of been any more accurate than the NME & Melody Maker averaged charts. Then (from 1977) you've got Radio & Record News, but how many stores did they reflect? Probably similar to RB.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by davetaylor
                              Now, i've learnt something Graham. Cheers for that.

                              The question remains did WHSmiths & Boots ever give any information? I very much doubt it. Or did they start doing so around 1981, in the expanded BMRB poll? I was always told they were doing so in 1971....So, perhaps it was 10 years later.

                              Of course, Northern Ireland were not part of any poll (apart from Melody Maker) until Gallup started to poll the country. That could of been the reason various MM charts, had differing #1s.

                              So, the market would of been a small panel, before 1975 anyway. 75% of sales in Woolworths, 10% through Smiths & Boots. Only 15% of shops in the UK surveyed, before '75, & this was supposed to be a true reflection of what we were buying. Though (in that case) there wasn't a large field of shops in the RB/MRIB run, apart from the Independants.

                              With all 3 stores missing, a make believe 5,000 shops certainly didn't cut. Goodness I'd love to see a list of those 250 shops. It could not of been any more accurate than the NME & Melody Maker averaged charts. Then (from 1977) you've got Radio & Record News, but how many stores did they reflect? Probably similar to RB.

                              I don't think Northern Ireland would have made a lot of difference, Dave.

                              It had less than 3% of the total population of the UK and relatively speaking sold fewer records per head.

                              But the sales more or less followed that of the UK as a whole.

                              A local radio station - Downtown - which was the most listened to in the Province compiled a local chart from actual sales in shops throughout the country. We knew the manageress of a local record store who was on the panel and every Thursday morning she would phone into the station with the actual numbers of each single sold from the records they kept. This was definitely bona fide.

                              Downtown collated the sales from the various shops and revealed the new chart on a Thursday night.

                              Obviously the timing Thursday-Wednesday meant that the chart was slower moving than the national chart - new entries would not chart chart as high having only been released on the Monday but would then be slower to drop. But overall there wasn't really a big difference and peak position reached was similar to the full UK chart.

                              You might have expected Irish records to do very well but oddly very few did and those that did make it were usually only towards the bottom.

                              I can't remember that there were many really big differences. Because there weren't any stuck out.

                              Jennifer Rush's The Power Of Love made it to #1 in NI a couple of weeks before the UK as a whole and the strangest one of all was Rita MacNeil's Working Man being a #1 as she was Canadian and had no connections with the Province. But there really wasn't very much divergence.

                              Someone mentioned before that the record store in their town which was on the chart panel was the smallest. I wonder was this the pattern?

                              When NI was polled by Gallup there were 2 stores in the centre of Belfast chosen (supposedly no-one was supposed to know these!) One of these would have been about the middle ranking but the other was the shop which would have sold the least singles of all.

                              By far the two biggest selling single retailers in town were Woolworth and Boots (we didn't have a W H Smith at that stage) but I wonder if Woolworth stores were chosen separately or did they supply a central figure to the chart compilers?

                              Comment


                              • Release days are an important factor, not mentioned much.

                                The release day in the UK, was Fridays (up to the early 80s). I think, the Jam saw a niche to release their singles on a Monday (hence "Going Underground" going in at #1). Though 7 years earlier Slade & Gary Glitter didn't need a niche & could sell some 150,000 in 2 days!

                                Was it 1984, when records were mainly all release on Mondays?

                                I did actually think that Records were always released on Fridays in Northern (& the Republic) of Ireland? Not sure on that.

                                Of course, now we have the niche of downloads being released on Sundays & (still) Fridays over there. Both does us good for our very own Ultimate UK Chart show, across the net on Sundays with Jason Scott. Which is going from strength to strength & has had an increase of 10x the audience across the world in the last 8 months.

                                Got to apologise to MFR....The figures for 1987 are out, because I originally wrote them across small exercise books via top 10 panel sales, top 20, top 30, top 40, top 50, top 60, top 75 & top 100. Much of that 1987 chart is out between 12 to 1,000 sales. I've now recovered another book with the panels from the 51 to 100 positions. So, i've corrected the 1987 post.

                                Comment


                                • 1984 (Gallup) The correct figures to x17.
                                  01 DO THEY KNOW IT'S CHRISTMAS/FEED THE WORLD - BAND AID 2.8m (2.75)
                                  02 RELAX - FRANKIE GOES TO HOLLYWOOD 1.8m (by 1989)
                                  03 I JUST CALLED TO SAY I LOVE YOU - STEVIE WONDER 1.7m (by 1989)
                                  04 TWO TRIBES - FRANKIE GOES TO HOLLYWOOD 1.52 (by 1989)
                                  05 LAST CHRISTMAS - WHAM! 1.27m (by 1989)
                                  06 CARELESS WHISPER - GEORGE MICHAEL 1.26m (by 1989)
                                  07 GHOSTBUSTERS - RAY PARKER JR 820,000
                                  08 HELLO - LIONEL RICHIE 765,000
                                  09 AGADOO - BLACK LACE 746,100
                                  10 FREEDOM - WHAM 689,400
                                  11 LIKE A VIRGIN - MADONNA 668,700
                                  12 WE ALL STAND TOGETHER - PAUL MCCARTNEY & THE FROG CHORUS 640,000 (474,100 in 1984)
                                  13 WAKE WE UP BEFORE YOU GO GO - WHAM! 629,900
                                  14 I FEEL FOR YOU - CHAKA KHAN 612,900
                                  15 POWER OF LOVE - FRANKIE GOES TO HOLLYWOOD 557,000
                                  16 WHITE LINES - GRANDMASTER & MELLE MEL 556,000
                                  17 DRIVE - THE CARS 501,000
                                  18 99 RED BALLOONS - NENA 464,266 (though awarded a gold disc & passed 500,000 by 1987)
                                  19 AGAINST ALL ODDS - PHIL COLLINS (mrib #1) 401,200 passed 500,000 during 1988)
                                  20 AIN'T NOBODY - RUFUS & CHAKA KHAN 386,200 in 2 top 75 runs (though it sold steadily outside the top 75 for 5 years & cleared 452,000 in a 7 year period)
                                  21 THE REFLEX - DURAN DURAN 423,400
                                  22 I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER - JIM DIAMOND 410,900
                                  23 NO MORE LONELY NIGHTS - PAUL MCCARTNEY 399,500
                                  24 WHAT'S LOVE GOT TO DO WITH IT - TINA TURNER 396,800
                                  25 NELLIE THE ELEPHANT - TOY DOLLS 392,000
                                  26 I WANT TO BREAK FREE - QUEEN 387,000
                                  27 HOLE IN MY SHOE - NEIL 383,500
                                  28 TIME AFTER TIME - CYNDI LAUPER 370,200
                                  29 PIPES OF PEACE - PAUL MCCARTNEY 370,000
                                  30 RADIO GAGA - QUEEN 364,800
                                  31 WILD BOYS - DURAN DURAN 361,900
                                  32 TOGETHER IN ELECTRIC DREAMS - GIORGIO MORODER & PHILIP OAKEY 358,600
                                  33 I WON'T LET THE SUN GO DOWN ON ME - NIK KERSHAW 353,000
                                  34 WHEN DOVES CRY - PRINCE 352,400
                                  35 DOCTOR DOCTOR - THOMPSON TWINS 348,600
                                  36 WHAT IS LOVE - HOWARD JONES 345,000
                                  37 SELF CONTROL - LAURA BRANIGAN 344,400
                                  38 WAR SONG - CULTURE CLUB (mrib #1) 340,800
                                  39 GIRLS JUST WANNA HAVE FUN - CYNDI LAUPER 337,300
                                  40 LIKE TO GET TO KNOW YOU WELL - HOWARD JONES 328,400
                                  41 PRIDE - U2 325,800
                                  42 THE RIDDLE - NIK KERSHAW 322,200
                                  43 AUTOMATIC - POINTER SISTERS 321,500
                                  44 THAT'S LIVIN' ALRIGHT - JOE FAGIN 314,200
                                  45 JOANNA - KOOL AND THE GANG 311,600
                                  46 WOULDN'T IT BE GOOD - NIK KERSHAW 306,300
                                  47 STREET DANCE - BREAK MACHINE 301,800
                                  48 TELL HER ABOUT IT - BILLY JOEL 301,000 in the chart run 83/84 (though some 320,000 shipped)
                                  49 SMALLTOWN BOY - BRONSKI BEAT 298,300
                                  50 BREAK MY STRIDE - MATTHEW WILDER 292,900
                                  51 DR BEAT - MIAMI SOUND MACHINE 287,600
                                  52 LET'S HEAR IF FOR THE BOY - DENIECE WILLIAMS 284,000
                                  53 NEVER ENDING STORY - LIMAHL 282,000
                                  54 CARRIBEAN QUEEN - BILLY OCEAN 270,700
                                  55 WHATEVER I DO - HAZEL DEAN 264,500
                                  56 LOST IN MUSIC (1984 RE-MIX) - SISTER SLEDGE 262,700
                                  57 SOMEBODY'S WATCHING ME - ROCKWELL 259,100
                                  pipes of peace 255
                                  58 A LOVE WORTH WAITING FOR - SHAKIN' STEVENS 252,100
                                  59 SEX CRIME (1984) - EURYTHMICS 249,100
                                  60 PASSENGERS - ELTON JOHN 244,100
                                  drive 243
                                  61 YOU TAKE ME UP - THOMPSON TWINS (mrib #1) 237,000
                                  62 IT'S RAINING MEN - WEATHER GILRS 230,300 (though awarded a silver disc)
                                  63 HI ENERGY - EVELYN THOMAS 229,000
                                  64 ALL CRIED OUT - ALISON MOYET 226,300 (though awarded a silver disc)
                                  65 ONE LOVE-PEOPLE GET READY - BOB MARLEY 225,400
                                  66 LOCOMOTION - OMD 221,200
                                  67 AN INNOCENT MAN - BILLY JOEL 219,000 (though awarded a silver disc)
                                  68 EVERYTHING MUST CHANGE - PAUL YOUNG 218,000 (though awarded a silver disc)
                                  69 JUMP FOR MY LOVE - POINTER SISTERS 217,000
                                  70 TEARDROPS - SHAKIN' STEVENS 216,200 (though awarded a silver disc)
                                  71 BIG IN JAPAN - ALPHAVILLE 215,700
                                  72 WHY - BRONSKI BEAT 213,900 (though awarded a silver disc)
                                  73 ROBERT DE NIRO'S WAITING - BANANARAMA 211,200 (though awarded a silver disc)
                                  74 SEARCHING - HAZELL DEAN 209,400 (though awarded a silver disc)
                                  75 DANCING WITH TEARS WITH IN MY EYES - ULTRAVOX 208,600
                                  76 FRESH - KOOL AND THE GANG 203,000
                                  77 THE WANDERER - STATUS QUO 202,400
                                  78 I WON'T RUN AWAY - ALVIN STARDUST 201,200
                                  79 FAREWELL MY SUMMER LOVE - MICHAEL JACKSON 200,600
                                  80 BREAKIN' (THERE'S NO STOPPING US) - OLLIE & JERRY 199,500
                                  81 ONE NIGHT IN BANGKOK - MURRAY HEAD 198,000
                                  82 TOO LATE FOR GOODBYES - JULIAN LENNON 197,500
                                  83 SAD SONGS - ELTON JOHN 196,000
                                  84 HARD HABIT TO BREAK - CHICAGO 195,000
                                  85 WHAT DO I DO - PHIL FEARON/GALAXY 194,000
                                  86 PEOPLE ARE PEOPLE - DEPECHE MODE 193,000
                                  87 THINKING OF YOU - SISTER SLEDGE 192,000
                                  88 FOOTLOOSE - KENNY LOGGINS 191,000
                                  89 YOUNG AT HEART - BLUEBELLS 190,000
                                  90 MISSING YOU - JOHN WAITE 189,000
                                  91 JUMP - VAN HALEN 188,000
                                  92 ONLY WHEN YOU LEAVE - SPANDAU BALLET 187,000

                                  No major differences between Gallup & MRIB in 1984. Remember MRIB only brought the regular singles chart back on w/k ending 7th April 1984, so (obviously) some of the figures were "manipulated" into the MRIB end of year chart, from Gallup I reckon. Though we do see that "Like A Virgin" did not apparently sell more that "Into The Groove". Guess that Crampton & co were going by 1984/85 figures alone, as "Into The Groove" was still selling into 1988.

                                  To compare Alan Jones 1984 percentages, you need to multiply these figures by 1.059.

                                  Comment


                                  • Dave, What did the top 6 sell during the year for 1984?

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by fiesta
                                      Dave, What did the top 6 sell during the year for 1984?
                                      1984 alone, as follows:
                                      Band Aid 2.24m
                                      Wonder 1.52m
                                      Relax 1.51m
                                      Two Tribes 1.45m
                                      George Michael 1.24m
                                      Wham! 800,000

                                      Comment


                                      • I've now entered the MRIB figures (that Mike sent me) on the MRIB 1984 - 1988 charts & (I must say) that are certainly better than the ones I entered. Though "Miistletoe & Wine" doesn't move on 880,000.

                                        I wonder if "I Just Don't Have The Heart" sold any better on MRIB in 1989. I don't have positions outside the top 50 for MRIB's 1989 sellers. I wonder if Graham has the top 75 best sellers of 1989, from No'1 magazine? All the other SAW products are higher, so what about Cliff? I see he comes into the Gallup year end chart at #80, on 169,000, Could he be in the top 60, for MRIB? If you can help solve that, please Graham....

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by davetaylor
                                          I've now entered the MRIB figures (that Mike sent me) on the MRIB 1984 - 1988 charts & (I must say) that are certainly better than the ones I entered. Though "Miistletoe & Wine" doesn't move on 880,000.

                                          I wonder if "I Just Don't Have The Heart" sold any better on MRIB in 1989. I don't have positions outside the top 50 for MRIB's 1989 sellers. I wonder if Graham has the top 75 best sellers of 1989, from No'1 magazine? All the other SAW products are higher, so what about Cliff? I see he comes into the Gallup year end chart at #80, on 169,000, Could he be in the top 60, for MRIB? If you can help solve that, please Graham....
                                          Those new figures seem to be very low - are these official MRIB ones?

                                          You are bringing up some interesting info. here.

                                          I had always thought it was an accepted fact that Cliff Richard sold better in the mainstream market i.e. Woolworth, Smiths etc.

                                          Undoubtedly MRIB made a horlicks of Mistletoe but maybe it is higher than Gallup suggest as the OCC have it on 865k at September 2012 which even allowing for downloads would look to give more than the 750/760k Gallup suggested.

                                          Obviously, the missing Christmas week affects BMRB but Record Business figures for Daddy's Home look to be higher than their's.

                                          Now you are mentioning I Just Don't Have The Heart. That has always puzzled me. Obviously had it immediately shipped 200k then fair enough for a Silver Disc.

                                          The record was released in Aug 1989 and was out of the charts in October. As you say Gallup gave the record a figure of around 170k at the end of the year. There must have been a trickle of sales because the Silver Disc was awarded in April 1990. After 6 months there was no way there were 30k copies of the record in the shops.

                                          So either EMI were being underhand and ignoring returns which had been made, in claiming the award or, Gallup had underestimated the sales. So it would be interesting to know what MRIB came up with.

                                          It seemed to me in the circumstances that the record must have sold close to the 200k.

                                          Maybe the perception that Cliff sold better in the multiples is wrong.

                                          Comment


                                          • Originally posted by rubcale
                                            Originally posted by davetaylor
                                            I've now entered the MRIB figures (that Mike sent me) on the MRIB 1984 - 1988 charts & (I must say) that are certainly better than the ones I entered. Though "Miistletoe & Wine" doesn't move on 880,000.

                                            I wonder if "I Just Don't Have The Heart" sold any better on MRIB in 1989. I don't have positions outside the top 50 for MRIB's 1989 sellers. I wonder if Graham has the top 75 best sellers of 1989, from No'1 magazine? All the other SAW products are higher, so what about Cliff? I see he comes into the Gallup year end chart at #80, on 169,000, Could he be in the top 60, for MRIB? If you can help solve that, please Graham....
                                            Those new figures seem to be very low - are these official MRIB ones?

                                            You are bringing up some interesting info. here.

                                            I had always thought it was an accepted fact that Cliff Richard sold better in the mainstream market i.e. Woolworth, Smiths etc.

                                            Undoubtedly MRIB made a horlicks of Mistletoe but maybe it is higher than Gallup suggest as the OCC have it on 865k at September 2012 which even allowing for downloads would look to give more than the 750/760k Gallup suggested.

                                            Obviously, the missing Christmas week affects BMRB but Record Business figures for Daddy's Home look to be higher than their's.

                                            Now you are mentioning I Just Don't Have The Heart. That has always puzzled me. Obviously had it immediately shipped 200k then fair enough for a Silver Disc.

                                            The record was released in Aug 1989 and was out of the charts in October. As you say Gallup gave the record a figure of around 170k at the end of the year. There must have been a trickle of sales because the Silver Disc was awarded in April 1990. After 6 months there was no way there were 30k copies of the record in the shops.

                                            So either EMI were being underhand and ignoring returns which had been made, in claiming the award or, Gallup had underestimated the sales. So it would be interesting to know what MRIB came up with.

                                            It seemed to me in the circumstances that the record must have sold close to the 200k.

                                            Maybe the perception that Cliff sold better in the multiples is wrong.
                                            Well Mike, took the figures in 20 multiplier down to 18 (which I tried to do) but many I had were already in 20 mode, others were just in Panel sales. I'd took the panel sales to 18 in those I had in that form. The ones that (now) kind of look low are 1984 & 1986 in the Top 25 positions. Though (likely) it could be down to the Independant market was not so good for Madonna (in 1984) & various others. Where as the 1986 records seem to affect people like Nick Berry. Which makes sense (although he was MRIB's best seller of 1986) I can't see he'd of sold massive amounts in your local independant stockist.

                                            We can look at "Mistletoe & Wine" in another way. Remember in the Network Chart sellers of 1988, Cliff was in third place, up to 21st Dec 1988. On that assumption, we can digest he'd sold 615,000 in MRIB's polls (at that point). By the the MRIB run had been 25, 1, 1, 1, 1. Feasible sales for that run. The rest of the MRIB run was (2), 8, Gone. We can suppose (2) is one of them, as Kylie & Jason surely knocked him off in a MRIB missed week. On w/k ending 31st Dec 88 (the Christmas chart) Cliff sold 210,000. What did he sale on the remaining MRIB chart run into 1989? 200,000 at the most. So, that would give him 815,000. Sounds good. Plus a few more during December 1989 (though he didn't re-enter the top 100). Round it up to 820,000 & we've got a nice figure. But it's still short of 60,000. MRIB changed the multiplier in 1989. So, 880,000 would likely lose 12/13,000. I suspect the whole 860,000 would of covered the same 18 multiplier. So, in that equation it takes it to 867,000. Mike says MRIB increased their poll in mid 1988, but did nothing to cover the increase in shops. Take 615,000 down 1 (in multiplier terms) & you've got 580,000. Add on the 200,000 from 1989 & it gives a more realistic 780,000. So, it probably solves the indescrepancy. And probably so. Although "The Only Way Is Up" would fall behind "I Should Be So Lucky". But then, we'd expect that, from a SAW product from Kylie.

                                            Comment


                                            • Alan Jones said in Record Mirror that M&W passed The Only Way Is Up to become the 1988 #1 seller on Christmas Eve.

                                              Comment


                                              • [Quote: Release days are an important factor, not mentioned much.

                                                The release day in the UK, was Fridays (up to the early 80s). I think, the Jam saw a niche to release their singles on a Monday (hence "Going Underground" going in at #1). Though 7 years earlier Slade & Gary Glitter didn't need a niche & could sell some 150,000 in 2 days!

                                                Was it 1984, when records were mainly all release on Mondays?]

                                                As someone who was quite young at that time and recorded most of my singles from the Top 40 rather than bought, I am perhaps not the best candidate to confirm this from living memory of regular trips to music stores. However, judging by the various music press and numerous inlay cards I've read retrospectively, I have established that whilst at the end of 1982 the majority of singles were still issued on a Friday, by the end of '83, this had moved to Monday, and I don't think I've come across a release date cited for 1984 that was a Friday (though of course there are always exceptions, as there are today). So I'd say you're pretty bang on with this estimate.

                                                Maybe it had something to do with the inception of computer compilation and EPOS through Gallup in Jan '83? The boost to labels of picking up more 'definite' sales hits in the earlier days of a Monday to Saturday sales week might've been such that they opted quite emphatically to begin releasing on Mondays soon after Gallup took over 'official' chart compilation knowing it would have a sharper effect on initial chart position.

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by rubcale
                                                  Alan Jones said in Record Mirror that M&W passed The Only Way Is Up to become the 1988 #1 seller on Christmas Eve.
                                                  Well he would of done, because Christmas Eve was a Saturday in 1988. The cut off on the Christmas chart for Gallup. Whilst MRIB used sales to Wedenesday 21st. Kylie Minogue & Yazz were neck & neck anyway. Cliff would of sold in the region of 140,000 in those 3 days of Weds to Sat.. Where in contrast to MRIB, you've got sales from Thursday 15th to Weds 21st, which would equal a lesser sale 210,000 to Gallup in the Mon to Sat period & like 180,000 in Thurs to Weds, for MRIB....taking into consideration my previous post, it would explain how MRIB were too high i.e, the unchanged situation, where they'd not accounted for the change in shops polled.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Removed
                                                    Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

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