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  • Originally posted by davetaylor
    Funny you should mention that, but that 973,000 was the figure mentioned by David Jensen, on the Network Chart in January 1989. Which (as it 'appens) is just 4,000 short on the x20 figure I got, before I reduced the multiplier. The 977,000 I got to x20, would basically match the figure in the NME Book, where (again) some of the multipliers of MRIB, have also been marked too high. Seems MRIB, loved big figures. Probably the 831,000 on a MRIB x17, would make more sense, which would cover 88/89 in full. Alan Jones suggests both Cliff in 88 (& Rick Astley in 87) both sold the same amounts...but then says that 18 is his multiplier for 1987, so Rick sold a tad under 800,000 under his (then) rules. Had he continued with that idea, then Cliff also sold, just under 800,000 in 88/89. Sounds feasible. Sometimes the multiplier may have been spot on, others not. According to BPI it only ever got a silver disc for 250,000 sales! It's the same thing for 1979,
    Is this a reference to Cliff or Rick? Both singles are listed as gold, but for Mistletoe And Wine you have to click on the "More" tab of the silver disc entry to see it.

    Comment


    • Removed
      Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

      Comment


      • 1. OCC preferred Millward Brown's plans to do away with the panel sales and multiplier system in favour of the defined universe method of expressing sales we have had since 1997.

        Gallup claimed they were offering to do something like this as well, but they had been doing the charts for 10 years already and hadn't done it yet.

        On the other hand, the BPI's decision to exercise a break clause in the contract with Gallup, to take effect from mid-1990, in order to cut costs and have a cheaper chart with far fewer shops sampled probably didn't give Gallup much confidence in expanding the sample.

        2. The new contract was to have different ownership rights. The BPI had owned the charts, while Gallup had owned the data, and charged a lot for it, apparently. In 1990 OCC had wrested ownership of the charts from the BPI and retained Gallup as the compiler, with the same rights and an extended contract. The new chart contract, from 1994, was to have the data ownership rights also held by OCC. Perhaps OCC feared this would become an issue if Gallup were still the compiler, and decided a new compiler would be better.

        Comment


        • The Sheena Easton bit. We're talking 9 to 5, I guess?

          The record was released in April 1980 & took several months to make the charts. The early copies were very "certain" area sales & particular shop related, so were probably out of BMRB's chart panel. In the same way Crass, never achieved any hits for BMRB, but had a handful with Record Business Research. Define as "Lost Sales" indeed.

          Basically (whatever anyone says) I don't consider any chart, to be that accurate. I used to get annoyed extremely, when Radio One were harping on about "Official" & "Chart That Counts", when neither Gallup or MRIB, were any better than the other. Even to this day, i'm asking "what happened to the sales of this record". Even, this week "Walking On Air" by Katy Perry. Why is it not in the "official" top 40? It was #23 on iTunes for the week...So, what happened?

          By the way. Guess what happened to BMRB & Gallup? Well, they were both swallowed up into the Milward Brown group, some years back & no longer exist, as separate companies. Not much chance, Milward Brown will lose the chart contract, now.

          Comment


          • Removed
            Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

            Comment


            • I thought you would have known that Graham. The Official Chart Company owns copyright on all chart data from the first Record Retailer Top 50 dated 10 March 1960.

              Comment


              • Not totally true. They choose to use charts from Record Retailer (when charts were not based on actual sales, anyway) because it belongs to Music Week publications.

                The "Official Charts Company" (formerly CIN) is an overseeing body that contracts out chart compilation to the Millward Brown group. All the BMRB & Gallup reports have been locked away somewhere for years & OCC hasn't actually seen them. They just base their old figures on what the BPI has to offer & people like Alan Jones. I doubt even reckon Milward Brown has any access to the reports, or even that they still exist.

                Vaults tend to vanish, when companies get swallowed up. Remember all those specially sequenced bits, that took you into the commercial breaks on ITV (back in the day) i.e, the captions on The New Avengers, Return Of The Saint & most ITC shows? Try asking ITV4 to dig them out with their current showings. They can not, for the actual companies that made these shows, no longer exist & the captions have been hidden away or destroyed. Same with chart reports from 1969 to 1993. All gone & out of sight.

                Comment


                • Those chart reports were in the BPI Library at The Riverside Building in London. OCC moved into the same building in 2009 and the reports were apparently relegated to a corridor.

                  Comment


                  • 1987 (Gallup)
                    01 NEVER GONNA GIVE YOU UP - RICK ASTLEY 759,000
                    02 NOTHING'S GONNA STOP US NOW - STARSHIP 698,900
                    03 I WANNA DANCE WITH SOMEBODY - WHITNEY HOUSTON 612,000 -
                    04 CHINA IN YOUR HAND - T'PAU 559,100
                    05 YOU WIN AGAIN - BEE GEES 557,200
                    06 RESPECTABLE - MEL & KIM 544,900
                    07 STAND BY ME - BEN E. KING 513,000
                    08 ALWAYS ON MY MIND - PET SHOP BOYS 502,000
                    09 IT'S A SIN - PET SHOP BOYS 466,000
                    10 STAR TREKKIN' - THE FIRM 451,400
                    11 PUMP UP THE VOLUME - M/A/R/R/S 425,900
                    12 I KNEW YOU WERE WAITING - ARETHA FRANKLIN & GEORGE MICHAEL 419,300
                    13 UNDER THE BOARDWALK - BRUCE WILLIS 415,500
                    14 LET IT BE - FERRY AID 400,400
                    15 GOT MY MIND SET ON YOU - GEORGE HARRISON 385,300
                    16 CAN'T BE WITH YOU TONIGHT - JUDY BOUCHER 374,900
                    17 LA ISLA BONITA - MADONNA 371,100 -
                    18 LA BAMBA - LOS LOBOS 368,300 -
                    19 HOLD ME NOW - JOHNNY LOGAN 355,100
                    20 WHO'S THAT GIRL - MADONNA 352,200
                    21 EVERYTHING I OWN - BOY GEORGE 350,300
                    22 DOWN TO EARTH - CURIOSITY KILLED THE CAT 349,400
                    23 WHEN A MAN LOVES A WOMAN - PERCY SLEDGE 319,200
                    24 HEARTACHE - PEPSI & SHIRLEY 317,300
                    25 ALWAYS - ATLANTIC STARR 316,400
                    26 IS THIS LOVE - ALISON MOYET 308,000 ----
                    27 WHENEVER YOU NEED SOMEBODY - RICK ASTLEY (a mrib #1) 306,900
                    28 TOY BOY - SINITTA 301,300
                    29 I GET THE SWEETEST FEELING - JACKIE WILSON 299,400
                    30 FAITH - GEORGE MICHAEL 297,500
                    31 JACK YOUR BODY - STEVE "SILK" HURLEY 284,000
                    32 I JUST CAN'T STOP LOVING YOU - MICHAEL JACKSON/SIEDAH GARRETT 282,400
                    33 LIVE IT UP - MENTAL AS ANYTHING 279,500
                    34 LOVE IN THE FIRST DEGREE - BANANARAMA 277,700
                    35 CROCKETT'S THEME - JAN HAMMER 274,800
                    36 WHEN I FALL IN LOVE - RICK ASTLEY 274,000
                    37 ALONE - HEART 272,900
                    38 WIPEOUT - FAT BOYS & THE BEACH BOYS 271,000
                    39 MALE STRIPPER - MAN TO MAN MEETS MAN PARRISH 270,000
                    40 CALL ME - SPAGNA 269,100
                    41 LET'S WAIT A WHILE - JANET JACKSON 267,200
                    42 FAIRYTALE OF NEW YORK - POGUES & KIRSTY MACOLL 264,200
                    43 GREAT PRETENDER - FREDDIE MERCURY 257,800
                    44 LEAN ON ME - CLUB NOUVEAU 255,900
                    45 WAY YOU MAKE ME FEEL - MICHAEL JACKSON 254,000
                    46 WHAT HAVE I DONE TO DESERVE THIS - DUSTY SPRINGFIELD 252,200
                    47 SOME PEOPLE - CLIFF RICHARD 250,200
                    48 BOY FROM NOWHERE - TOM JONES 248,400
                    49 WITH OR WITHOUT YOU - U2 246,500
                    50 WISHING WELL - TERENCE TRENT DARBY 241,700
                    51 NO MORE THE FOOL - ELKIE BROOKS 232,000
                    52 HEART & SOUL T'PAU 230,400
                    53 BIG FUN - GAP BAND 228,000
                    54 NEVER CAN SAY GOODBYE - COMMUNARDS 227,800
                    55 FULL METAL JACKET (I WANNA BE YOUR DRILL INSTRUCTOR) 227,600
                    56 LOVE LETTERS - ALISON MOYET 226,800
                    57 BAD - MICHAEL JACKSON 225,700
                    58 YOU'RE THE VOICE - JOHN FARNHAM 225,500
                    59 LIVING IN A BOX - LIVING IN A BOX 223,800
                    60 CRY WOLF - A-HA 223,000
                    61 LITTLE LIES - FLEETWOOD MAC 221,900
                    62 CRITICIZE - ALEXANDER O'NEAL 220,100
                    63 ALMAZ - RANDY CRAWFORD 217,000
                    64 SWEET LITTLE MYSTERY - WET WET WET 216,200
                    65 SHATTERED DREAMS - JOHNNY HATES JAZZ 212,500
                    66 TRUE FAITH - NEW ORDER 210,600
                    67 ROCKIN' AROUND THE CHRISTMAS TREE - MEL SMITH/KIM WILDE/GRIFF RHYS JONES 206,000
                    68 HERE I GO AGAIN - WHITESNAKE 87 & 82 VERSIONS 205,000
                    69 I FOUND LOVIN' - FATBACK BAND 204,000
                    70 CRUSH ON YOU - JETS 199,200
                    71 I WANT YOUR SEX/HARD DAY 12 INCH - GEORGE MICHAEL 198,300
                    72 JACK MIX II/III - MIRAGE 198,000
                    73 IF YOU LET ME STAY - TERENCE TRENT DARBY 197,300
                    74 LABOUR OF LOVE - HUE & CRY 197,100
                    75 RUNNING IN THE FAMILY - LEVEL 42 197,000
                    76 SOMETHING INSIDE SO STRONG - LABI SIFFRE 186,100
                    77 WHAT DO YOU WANT TO MAKE THOSE EYES AT ME FOR - SHAKIN' STEVENS 185,000
                    78 CAUSING A COMMOTION - MADONNA 183,200
                    79 I'VE HAD THE TIME OF MY LIFE - BILL MEDLEY & JENNIFER WARNES 183,000
                    80 MY BABY JUST CARES FOR ME - NINA SIMONE 182,200
                    81 SO EMOTIONAL - WHITNEY HOUSTON 176,600
                    82 LETTER FROM AMERICA - PROCLAIMERS 175,600
                    83 WEAK IN THE PRESENCE OF BEAUTY - ALISON MOYET 174,700
                    84 FRENCH KISSIN' IN THE USA - DEBBIE HARRY 173,000
                    85 FLM - MEL & KIM 172,800
                    86 SLIGHTEST TOUCH - FIVE STAR 170,900
                    87 MONY MONY - BILLY IDOL 168,100
                    88 C'EST LA VIE - ROBBIE NEVIL 168,000
                    89 SOMEWHERE OUT THERE - LINDA RONSTADT & JAMES INGRAM 166,200
                    90 HOUSE NATION - HOUSEMASTER BOYZ 165,200
                    91 ANIMAL - DEF LEPPARD 163,400
                    92 WISHING I WAS LUCKY - WET WET WET 162,300
                    93 SO COLD THE NIGHT - COMMUNARDS 162,000

                    Pretty much the same trends. With Rick Astley achieving better with MRIB. Breaking off with #93 in this revised post, as the figures disappear in the 1987 exercise books.

                    Comment


                    • Dave, I was going to ask you what chart you felt was the more accurate but you have already answered that in full and it would appear you didn't have much faith in either being accurate. Although on a weekly basis the relative positions weren't really that much different.

                      Although not a massive seller one odd Cliff Richard record was 1985's She's So Beautiful which was in MRIB top 10 for a few weeks but never got higher than #17 on Gallup.

                      It does seem that perhaps overall estimates are on the high side. The Motown Top 30 Selling Singles in the UK around about 2008(?) produced by OCC does provide a rough guide to some of their sales. Assuming this chart is right and presumably they will have taken sales from the record company and added any downloads, Upside Down by Diana Ross 1980 for example is on around 460k at this date so if downloads were excluded the total is even less than this while MRIB are coming up with 483k and BMRB maybe something similar.

                      Shireblogger on Havenforum had estimated this record's sales in 1980 at around 410k and it could be this is a more realistic figure. Hmm..............

                      Are you able to give me an MRIB figure for Chain Reaction for the 1986 calendar year?

                      Comment


                      • In 1993, Barry Lazell & Luke Crampton brought outthe book the Top Ten Of Music (off shoot of Top Ten Of Everything), containing hundreds of sales lists, and giving some MRIB sales to go with it. I bought it and spent many hours scratching my head trying to fit their sales figures into Gallup sales lists not understanding why they didnt fit. Of course back then as a mere teenager I wasn't aware of how the sales were derived and that there were two different sets of figures. If only I'd known then what I know now...

                        Looking forward to the rest of the Gallup years!

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by rubcale
                          Dave, I was going to ask you what chart you felt was the more accurate but you have already answered that in full and it would appear you didn't have much faith in either being accurate. Although on a weekly basis the relative positions weren't really that much different.

                          Although not a massive seller one odd Cliff Richard record was 1985's She's So Beautiful which was in MRIB top 10 for a few weeks but never got higher than #17 on Gallup.

                          It does seem that perhaps overall estimates are on the high side. The Motown Top 30 Selling Singles in the UK around about 2008(?) produced by OCC does provide a rough guide to some of their sales. Assuming this chart is right and presumably they will have taken sales from the record company and added any downloads, Upside Down by Diana Ross 1980 for example is on around 460k at this date so if downloads were excluded the total is even less than this while MRIB are coming up with 483k and BMRB maybe something similar.

                          Shireblogger on Havenforum had estimated this record's sales in 1980 at around 410k and it could be this is a more realistic figure. Hmm..............

                          Are you able to give me an MRIB figure for Chain Reaction for the 1986 calendar year?
                          If I'd pick a chart of (what I preferred) I'd always say Record Business Research. Although MRIB was an off-shoot, Barry Lazell was not so good with it. Even their multiplier's are boosted a little too high. I think (after doing Gallup) I should go back through MRIB's panel sales via Mike Robinson (who also worked for MRIB). He should be able to lend an expert hand.

                          Another person says the Motown list had "Upside Down" on 480,000! We'll check it out soon enough, for BMRB in 1980. Chain Reaction to x18 is at 631,000.

                          "She So Beautiful" at #9 in 1985 is because you're going by the Network Chart, including some 10% of airplay of Independant Radio stations. To which it was never off the air of ILR in 1985. They played it constantly. Take away the airplay & it never made the top 10. The whole of the Network Chart included airplay from 1 to 75 & those sliding scale fullers, that were thrown out of the chart totally, if they'd lost sales for 2 weeks running & dropped out of the top 30, You'd have to go to the chart in Sounds to note the differences. There were few in the top 10. "She's So Beautiful" is one to note.

                          Comment


                          • Removed
                            Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by fiesta
                              In 1993, Barry Lazell & Luke Crampton brought outthe book the Top Ten Of Music (off shoot of Top Ten Of Everything), containing hundreds of sales lists, and giving some MRIB sales to go with it. I bought it and spent many hours scratching my head trying to fit their sales figures into Gallup sales lists not understanding why they didnt fit. Of course back then as a mere teenager I wasn't aware of how the sales were derived and that there were two different sets of figures. If only I'd known then what I know now...

                              Looking forward to the rest of the Gallup years!

                              I never put too much reliance on that book - there seemed to be an awful of things which just were not right.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by davetaylor
                                "She So Beautiful" at #9 in 1985 is because you're going by the Network Chart, including some 10% of airplay of Independant Radio stations. To which it was never off the air of ILR in 1985. They played it constantly. Take away the airplay & it never made the top 10. The whole of the Network Chart included airplay from 1 to 75 & those sliding scale fullers, that were thrown out of the chart totally,
                                Far be it for me to query you but are you absolutely sure?

                                I had the same understanding as Graham that the top 10 was always sales based, airplay only kicking in from #11.

                                Comment


                                • 1986 (Gallup) while doing this list, I came across a British Forces Broadcastinf Services Gallup chart. It went up to w/k ending 27th Dec 1986, but as well as sales, it also featured sales projections for singles that were still in the current top 200. They also did the same for 1985. Unfortunately some of their "projections" were way out!
                                  01 DON'T LEAVE ME THIS WAY - COMMUNARDS 713,000
                                  02 EVERY LOSER WINS - NICK BERRY 669,800
                                  03 I WANT TO WAKE UP WITH YOU - BORIS GARDNER 666,800
                                  04 REET PETITE - JACKIE WILSON 665,800
                                  05 LIVING DOLL - CLIFF RICHARD & THE YOUNG ONES 634,100
                                  06 CHAIN REACTION - DIANA ROSS 611,000 in 1986 (660,000 by 1989)
                                  07 LADY IN RED - CHRIS DE BURGH 608,000 in 1986 (628,000 by 1989)
                                  08 WHEN THE GOING GETS TOUGH - BILLY OCEAN 602,500
                                  09 TAKE MY BREATH AWAY - BERLIN 554,000
                                  10 PAPA DON'T PREACH - MADONNA 538,300
                                  berlin 3rd
                                  11 SO MACHO/CRUISIN' - SINITTA 494,800
                                  berlin 27th Dec BFBS
                                  12 TRUE BLUE - MADONNA 491,100
                                  13 CARAVAN OF LOVE - HOUSEMARTINS 490,100
                                  14 FINAL COUNTDOWN - EUROPE (not a mrib #1) 489,000
                                  15 A DIFFERENT CORNER - GEORGE MICHAEL 445,400
                                  16 ROCK ME AMADEUS - FALCO (not a mrib #1) 442,900
                                  17 WE DON'T HAVE TO TAKE OUR CLOTHES OFF - JERMAINE STEWART 437,200
                                  18 WEST END GIRLS - PET SHOP BOYS 433,500
                                  19 SPIRIT IN THE SKY - DOCTOR & THE MEDICS 415,500
                                  final countdown 3rd Jan
                                  final countdown 27th Dec BFBS
                                  reet petite 3rd
                                  20 RAIN OR SHINE - FIVE STAR 372,900
                                  caravan of love 3rd
                                  21 SOMETIMES - ERASURE ( a mrib #1) 368,000
                                  22 THE SUN ALWAYS SHINES ON TV - A-HA 362,300
                                  23 WALK LIKE AN EGYPTIAN - BANGLES 354,100
                                  24 CHICKEN SONG - SPITTING IMAGE 352,200
                                  25 ON MY OWN - PATTI LABELLE & MICHAEL MCDONALD (a mrib #1) 346,800
                                  walk like an egyptian 3rd Jan
                                  walk like an egyptian 27th Dec BFBS
                                  26 IN THE ARMY NOW - STATUS QUO 342,000
                                  27 LESSONS IN LOVE - LEVEL 42 341,800
                                  reet petite 27th Dec BFBS
                                  28 GLORY OF LOVE - PETER CETERA 331,500
                                  29 EDGE OF HEAVEN E.P. - WHAM! 318,200
                                  30 ALL I ASK YOU - CLIFF RICHARD & SARAH BRIGHTMAN 311,600 314
                                  31 SLEDGEHAMMER - PETER GABRIEL 311,100
                                  caravan of love 27th Dec BFBS
                                  32 HOLDING BACK THE YEARS - SIMPLY RED (a mrib #1) 309,000
                                  33 YOU KEEP ME HANGIN' ON - KIM WILDE 308,400
                                  all i ask of you 3rd 306
                                  34 TOUCH ME - SAMANTHA FOX 303,100
                                  35 WONDERFUL WORLD - SAM COOKE 302,200 307.7
                                  36 A KIND OF MAGIC - QUEEN 300,300
                                  sometimes 27th Dec BFBS
                                  kim wilde 3rd
                                  kim wilde 27th Dec BFBS
                                  37 LET'S GO ALL THE WAY - SLY FOX 290,700
                                  cliff & sarah 27th Dec BFBS
                                  38 WORD UP - CAMEO 289,900
                                  cameo 3rd Jan 289,500
                                  39 MANIC MONDAY - BANGLES 289,400
                                  40 LIVIN' ON A PRAYER - BON JOVI 289,000
                                  word up 27th Dec 288,500 BFBS
                                  41 I CAN'T WAIT - NU SHOOZ 287,400
                                  42 MY FAVOURITE WASTE OF TIME - OWEN PAUL 286,300
                                  43 SHOWING OUT - MEL & KIM 286,100
                                  44 YOU CAN CALL ME AL - PAUL SIMON 279,500
                                  sometimes 3rd Jan
                                  45 I JUST DIED IN YOUR ARMS - CUTTING CREW 269,100
                                  46 YOU TO ME ARE EVERYTHING - REAL THING 262,500
                                  47 BREAK OUT - SWING OUT SISTER 262,000
                                  48 HAPPY HOUR - HOUSEMARTINS 259,700
                                  49 STARTING TOGETHER - SU POLLARD 256,700
                                  50 THE RAIN - ORAN "JUICE" JONES 255,000
                                  51 BORDERLINE - MADONNA 255,000 (this did actually sale some copies in 1985. Not included here, This is what sparked the 1986 re-issue & it sold around 7,500 in the closing months of 1985. Which would put it, just above Swing Out Sister in this list).
                                  52 THORN IN MY SIDE - EURYTHMICS 253,100
                                  53 WALK OF LIFE - DIRE STRAITS 251,200
                                  54 ABSOLUTE BEGINNERS - DAVID BOWIE 236,100
                                  55 HIT THAT PERFECT BEAT - BRONSKI BEAT 233,000
                                  56 AIN'T NOTHING GOING ON BUT THE RENT - GWEN GUTHRIE 232,300
                                  57 ONLY LOVE - NANA MOUSKOURI (a mrib #1) 229,500
                                  58 TOO GOOD TO BE FORGOTTEN - AMAZULU 227,000
                                  59 BROTHER LOUIE - MODERN TALKING 226,000
                                  60 EVERY BEAT OF MY HEART - ROD STEWART 225,000
                                  61 LIVE TO TELL - MADONNA (a mrib #1) 218,100
                                  62 HOW WILL I KNOW - WHITNEY HOUSTON 215,300
                                  63 OPEN YOUR HEART - MADONNA 214,000
                                  64 WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY - JANET JACKSON (a mrib #1) 212,700
                                  65 SHAKE YOU DOWN - GREGORY ABBOTT 212,000
                                  66 ADDICTED TO LOVE - ROBERT PALMER 210,000
                                  67 ELOISE - THE DAMNED 209,600
                                  68 SYSTEM ADDICT - FIVE STAR 209,200
                                  69 HI HO SILVER - JIM DIAMOND 209,100
                                  70 CAMOUFLAGE - STAN RIDGEWAY 205,700
                                  71 LOVE MISSILE F1-11 - SIGUE SIGUE SPUTNICK 204,900
                                  72 LOVE CAN'T TURN AROUND - FARLEY "JACKMASTER" FUNK 195,500
                                  73 BURNING HEART - SURVIVOR 195,300
                                  74 WALK THIS WAY - RUN DMC 195,100
                                  75 CAN'T WAIT ANOTHER MINUTE - FIVE STAR 194,500
                                  76 VENUS - BANANARAMA 193,400
                                  77 EACH TIME YOU BREAK MY HEART - NICK KAMEN 187,000
                                  78 ANYONE CAN FALL IN LOVE - ANITA DOBSON 183,600
                                  79 SECRET LOVERS - ATLANTIC STARR 182,200
                                  80 CAN'T GET BY WITHOUT YOU - REAL THING 181,300

                                  Major differences in the Gallup/MRIB comparison for 1986, are Nick Berry & the Communards. You'd rather of thought, that Nick would not of been so popular in Independant shops, let alone Independant Radio. I did discover that Survivor's "Eye Of The Tiger" managed to sell 5,300, during 1986. Probably largely due to the "Burning Heart" theme of Rocky III (was it?)

                                  There is becoming increasing evidence that the MRIB Top 500 of the 80s (broadcast on Independant stations in late 1989) was practically based on the awards of the BPI. For (we were told) that Frank Sinatra's "Theme From New York New York" had sold 250,000....Unclear, as it wasn't such a big seller in 1986, though did sell some 15,000 in 1980.

                                  Comment


                                  • The Network Chart only had the same sales based top 10 when Neil Fox took over as host from David Jensen in 1993 . They had many different number 1's before that, such 1999/Little Red Corvette by Prince that was only number 2 on the Gallup chart. And if I remember rightly, Bryan Adams was only no 1 on the commercial radio chart for 12 weeks.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by rubcale
                                      Originally posted by davetaylor
                                      "She So Beautiful" at #9 in 1985 is because you're going by the Network Chart, including some 10% of airplay of Independant Radio stations. To which it was never off the air of ILR in 1985. They played it constantly. Take away the airplay & it never made the top 10. The whole of the Network Chart included airplay from 1 to 75 & those sliding scale fullers, that were thrown out of the chart totally,
                                      Far be it for me to query you but are you absolutely sure?

                                      I had the same understanding as Graham that the top 10 was always sales based, airplay only kicking in from #11.
                                      Absolutely sure. The whole thing featured airplay to 5% to 20% from the start. It was dropped a couple years, before it was axed. I'll look for a chart from Sounds & then you can compare it to the Network Top 30.

                                      Do remember (though) Record Business only featured airplay between nos 31 & 130 & that airplay covered all Radio stations in the UK & Top Of The Pops. Where as, the Network Chart's airplay was just Independant Radio airplay (when they used to have decent playlists & not like today's repetive Heart & Capital stuff).

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Top40
                                        The Network Chart only had the same sales based top 10 when Neil Fox took over as host from David Jensen in 1993 . They had many different number 1's before that, such 1999/Little Red Corvette by Prince that was only number 2 on the Gallup chart. And if I remember rightly, Bryan Adams was only no 1 on the commercial radio chart for 12 weeks.
                                        Though (saying that) the #1's were not really much affected by airplay. The only differing one in Sounds, was "A Good Heart" topped the chart in Sounds, but the airplay factor on the Network Chart, had "I'm Your Man" go straight in at #1 & Feargal Sharkey didn't make it to #1.

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by rubcale
                                          Originally posted by fiesta
                                          In 1993, Barry Lazell & Luke Crampton brought outthe book the Top Ten Of Music (off shoot of Top Ten Of Everything), containing hundreds of sales lists, and giving some MRIB sales to go with it. I bought it and spent many hours scratching my head trying to fit their sales figures into Gallup sales lists not understanding why they didnt fit. Of course back then as a mere teenager I wasn't aware of how the sales were derived and that there were two different sets of figures. If only I'd known then what I know now...

                                          Looking forward to the rest of the Gallup years!

                                          I never put too much reliance on that book - there seemed to be an awful of things which just were not right.
                                          To be trueful, a great deal of the book is based on chart position & not always sales (certainly a lot of stuff, for the 50s, 60s & 70s). I noted (at the time) it basically says that "The Winner Takes It All" didn't sale 500,000 & the Rod Stewart top 10, is hilarious. I think the Madonna top 10 is just about right. The bit about "Like A Virgin" being 5,000 in front of "Into The Groove" is something, i'm coming to for 1985 & 1984 Gallup years.

                                          Comment


                                          • So what's the story behind the Gallup 1986 chart then, Dave? Is it a difference of opinion between yourself and, I presume, Alan Jones?

                                            The Gallup year chart published in Record Mirror didn't give any sales. However, they did give a list of the top selling singles artists for the year with figures.

                                            In this they listed an artist's collaborations separately so, for example, Cliff Richard & The Young Ones were on 671k. Since they only had the one release this would be the yearly figure for Living Doll which which was a greater total than that calculated by MRIB.

                                            Have you based your multiplier on aligning the Gallup figures with MRIB or what?

                                            Comment


                                            • The 1986 figures seem to be based on a multiplier of 17. It works for Cliff Richard & The Young Ones, Nick Berry, Patti Labelle & Michael McDonald and several others.

                                              The 1987 figures seem to be based on a multiplier of about 16.8 or 16.9, which is more confusing.

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                                              • They are all based round a x17, but I've only used "o's" & dropped the complete figure, to the nearest next number as in 600,700, is really 600,695 etc. For instance, Ben E. King in 1987 is really 510,901...but who cares about the "1"?! Plus we ae all a bot disgruntled by Alan Jones using 18, when we are told Gallup used a 17, throughout. I think 17 is good enough. Alan probably had other ideas. The Top Selling Duets (a few years back) most certainly used 17 for the chart in the Gallup period.

                                                As I said (before) I took MRIB down to 18 to compare, but now I've had a lengthy conversation (& shown the MRIB figures to Mike), he says that they used x20 from for all their sales reports & books etc. In order to create a show of 6,000 shops, I still think they were wrong to do that & the lot should come down. I originally assumed they'd use a x19 & created the 18, by taking them down from 19 to 18. I've emailed a copy of the 1984 - 88 MRIB figures & asked him to go through them & send them back to me. Then I'm planning on taking them to 17, like Gallup's.

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                                                • Removed
                                                  Education for anyone aged 12 to 16 has made a mess of the world!

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                                                  • Originally posted by Graham76man
                                                    My problem with these figures is the low amount in the charts. For example Dave mentions 6,000 shops. So if each of those shops sells 2 copies of a record per day over 6 days that's 72,000 copies sold.
                                                    Two records in a record shop is hardly and isn't a massive sales rush. But as you see a small seller could be in the top five nationally!
                                                    It's highly unlikely that a record would just sell 2 records a day with a total of 12 in each shop. For a start some shops could clear the 12 copies on Saturday alone. But this leaves me with a huge doubt about the accuracy of a chart that can report a top 20 record sale of under 20,000.
                                                    So when Gallup or MRIB reported a 20K sale at number 20, I think that was at the best a joke, or at worst a massive fiddling of the figures.
                                                    The problem gets worst when you come to best sellers. It's a question sometimes of weeks in the chart. When records hang around for ages they are bound to rack up big sales. But not according to these chart compilers. Because there charts have much lower sales. These chart struggle to have more than one or two million sellers a year. Leading to all time best seller list that only recently went past 100 in total million selling records. I reckon that million sellers are more likely to be at least 5 a year since 1963. I'm not certain about the 50's, but judging from the people I know who bought records and the amount of 78 rpm records that can be found in charity shops, I believe that a good few 50's record sold a million.
                                                    Just think how many records have past 20 weeks in the charts and how many are also million sellers, there's a miss-match and it hints at wrong reporting of sales.
                                                    Not every shop sells the same records. The idea behind sampling a sales universe is to represent what would be sold in the whole amount. You need to have figures about what those 6,000 stores are selling. The BMRB or MRIB would have analysed what each store was selling and would use their sampling to project sales from where they received sales from to project those sales to what all stores would be selling. It wasn't a perfect method but it would indicate trends.

                                                    It didn't mean every store was selling 2 copies of a single per day. It just meant that the likelihood was certain stores were selling, on average, 2 copies per day. Some stores could be selling none while other stores were selling 4 copies. The intention was to show that on average store x was selling y amount of copies and in a store with the same characteristics as store x then it was likely that a similar store which wasn't sampled would be selling a similar amount. It's basic sampling but one that was on the whole fairly accurate.

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