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  • I’m still not quite sure who the big bad is. It’s like in part 1 they were still planning for the Mind Flayer to be the main villain but now it seems it’s Vecna? Did Vecna create it? Did it take control of it? Is Vecna still just a soldier for the Mind Flayer? Also I’m in the strong believe that the Upside Down was created by El and that she will need to die for it to disappear.

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    • Originally posted by LittleLinda View Post
      but what I don’t like is that after the initial failure (Max dead, ritual completed), El kinda randomly is able to reanimate her. I get that she’s super powerful, but it takes a toll on the suspense if you ask me.
      No matter what will be at stake during Season 5, my brain will probably go: “Well, this is bad, but El will probably swoop in to save the day, anyway.”
      If the show ends with El being on the brink of death during the showdown and then suddenly “finding new power” through some Mike pep talk and sheer determination, I will be disappointed.
      I dislike it too, but I genuinely don’t believe Eleven can bring people back from the dead. She was there when Max’s heart stopped, so (I’m guessing) she was able to use a surge of energy to get the heart beating again, but there’s nothing so far to suggest she brought Max ‘back’.

      I did think that Max was dead and gone and Vecna will possess her for season five, but a friend point out that it’s made very clear during season four that Vecna consumes his victims and even claims they are with him ‘always’ - suggesting Max’s consciousness has been imprisoned by him and is still out there.

      If that’s true, then Eleven may only be able to reanimate a body rather than actually bringing them back - and I suspect there will be a very powerful scene in season five where the difference is explained and she cannot bring one of the main characters back.

      It would surprise me if that person is Mike - Eleven would be destroyed and she’s taught by 008 that her anger and rage makes her stronger. We also saw it in the flashback in season four when she banished 001 into the upside down following the massacre at the lab.

      It could easily be Hopper, but I just think Mike’s death offers a lot for the rest of them to play off in the closing moments: losing ‘the heart’ of the group etc.
      Exsqueeze me!

      Comment


      • Also, apparently 008’s episode was a back door pilot for a spin off that never materialised - thank god because it was a really weak episode all in all. They are working on spin offs though so I’m wondering if the whole Russia storyline is somehow going to be linked to one of those shows?

        If Eleven dies (or ends up locked in the Upside Down forever) I’d love a Hopper/Murray/Enzo/Yuri spin-off. Even though the storyline was pointless, the four of them (and Joyce) really made it work. Like some sort of weird A-Team
        Exsqueeze me!

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        • Originally posted by Artoo View Post

          I dislike it too, but I genuinely don’t believe Eleven can bring people back from the dead. She was there when Max’s heart stopped, so (I’m guessing) she was able to use a surge of energy to get the heart beating again, but there’s nothing so far to suggest she brought Max ‘back’.

          I did think that Max was dead and gone and Vecna will possess her for season five, but a friend point out that it’s made very clear during season four that Vecna consumes his victims and even claims they are with him ‘always’ - suggesting Max’s consciousness has been imprisoned by him and is still out there.

          If that’s true, then Eleven may only be able to reanimate a body rather than actually bringing them back - and I suspect there will be a very powerful scene in season five where the difference is explained and she cannot bring one of the main characters back.

          It would surprise me if that person is Mike - Eleven would be destroyed and she’s taught by 008 that her anger and rage makes her stronger. We also saw it in the flashback in season four when she banished 001 into the upside down following the massacre at the lab.

          It could easily be Hopper, but I just think Mike’s death offers a lot for the rest of them to play off in the closing moments: losing ‘the heart’ of the group etc.
          I get what you are saying about Max not being truly brought back to life, but it did seem that the ritual got halted by whatever El did. If Vecna has Max’s soul, would the fate of her body even matter?

          Either way, I’m sure Max’s fate will play a key role in Season 5. I don’t think that Mike a.k.a Heart of the Party will ever die, though. If one of the main boys bite the dust my bet is on Will, although I would hate for that to happen.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by LittleLinda View Post
            I get what you are saying about Max not being truly brought back to life, but it did seem that the ritual got halted by whatever El did. If Vecna has Max’s soul, would the fate of her body even matter?

            Either way, I’m sure Max’s fate will play a key role in Season 5. I don’t think that Mike a.k.a Heart of the Party will ever die, though. If one of the main boys bite the dust my bet is on Will, although I would hate for that to happen.
            Well, Vecna mutates the bodies of his victims to the point of death, so Eleven saving Max’s means possibly it can be reversed?

            I don’t think Vecna has her soul, but her mind. Considering Eleven’s and Vecna’s fight happened all in Max’s head, it might not just be her body that needs time to heal.

            I don’t know - but we have two years to figure it out
            Exsqueeze me!

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            • On epi 8, Max mentioned she had an idea of a bright place/memory or a corner of light in her mind where she could hide from Vecna but she never really disclosed where exactly and on that epi El also remembered that Vecna hid in the darkness, so maybe Max hid herself in the darkness just like Vecna did? Only 11 could be the one to find her there I think...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by AndiIversen View Post
                On epi 8, Max mentioned she had an idea of a bright place/memory or a corner of light in her mind where she could hide from Vecna but she never really disclosed where exactly and on that epi El also remembered that Vecna hid in the darkness, so maybe Max hid herself in the darkness just like Vecna did? Only 11 could be the one to find her there I think...
                I assumed that was the memories we saw in episode nine? When she died she wasn’t lost in her mind, she was right there with Lucas… and Vecna was too busy trying to survive being burnt alive to re-possess and take her. That’s why I think she might be actually gone. Although the fact the ritual worked and the world ripped open suggests he might have still been in play at the time…

                Who knows

                In fairness I’m reminded that Eleven actually found a dead Barb in The Upside Down so it’s curious that when looking for Max she couldn’t even see her body.
                Exsqueeze me!

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                • What if it was Vecna's death that opened the giant gates?
                  5.05.2009 / 6.22.2011 / 4.24.2013 / 4.25.2013 / 3.1.2014 / 9.13.2014 / 7.21.2016 / 7.14.2018 / 7.15.2018

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                  • Originally posted by KEY9481 View Post
                    What if it was Vecna's death that opened the giant gates?
                    Of all the things I’m confused about, Vecna being alive is not one of them
                    Exsqueeze me!

                    Comment


                    • 5.05.2009 / 6.22.2011 / 4.24.2013 / 4.25.2013 / 3.1.2014 / 9.13.2014 / 7.21.2016 / 7.14.2018 / 7.15.2018

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                      • 2024?

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                        • That’s fan made but it won’t debut before 2024 - they take ages between seasons.
                          Exsqueeze me!

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                          • The finale two episodes had some really high points but I think it went on for too long after the 'final battle'. It was almost, okay, now we're back to normal...or are we... for half an hour or so. Almost like the first however minutes of the next season.
                            "What goes around comes back around my baby"

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by aaliyahman View Post
                              The finale two episodes had some really high points but I think it went on for too long after the 'final battle'. It was almost, okay, now we're back to normal...or are we... for half an hour or so. Almost like the first however minutes of the next season.
                              I actually love that they spend a significant amount of time with them after the final battle - it gave the characters a chance to breathe and finally put everyone back together again in one place, something we haven’t seen this season (Mike and Nancy don’t talk to each other this season and it’s the only scene they share). Some shows end far too soon after the main drama is over so I like that we get to visit with them a bit longer here.
                              Exsqueeze me!

                              Comment


                              • Good season finale.
                                Akini's Top 100 Albums of All-Time: [#58]
                                Akini's Favourite Films: [50-46]
                                Your Billboard Top Ten: #1 As It Was [6 weeks]
                                AlbumClash 2.0: [Beyoncé vs. Ari Lennox vs. Rina Sawayama]

                                Yeah, they smile to your face and Prop-8 you in the back.

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                                • Originally posted by Artoo View Post

                                  I actually love that they spend a significant amount of time with them after the final battle - it gave the characters a chance to breathe and finally put everyone back together again in one place, something we haven’t seen this season (Mike and Nancy don’t talk to each other this season and it’s the only scene they share). Some shows end far too soon after the main drama is over so I like that we get to visit with them a bit longer here.
                                  Good for you.
                                  "What goes around comes back around my baby"

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                                  • I've been avoiding this thread until I saw the remaining two episodes because of spoilers, and oh wow that was a lot to unpack. I kind of wish it had been split into four episodes so I could digest it a little more. But Hawkins splitting with the "earthquake" was a pretty epic finish.

                                    Jason is hot garbage I'm so annoyed that the headphones got crushed in that fight.


                                    Originally posted by aaliyahman View Post

                                    Good for you.
                                    Good for me too ! I liked the closure at the end

                                    Comment


                                    • I loved this season. I really liked how it was handed, giving time to each story to develop. The three paralel lines shone, each character had a spotlight. Pretty solid!

                                      I was expecting even more drama in the end to be honest, but I feel relieved a couple of characters I was afraid were going to be over made it to the final season.

                                      I do thik next season is going to hurt...
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                                      FIRST CYCLE or SECOND CYCLE


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                                      • I also loved the final scene! Getting back together, like calm before the storm. And the end scene was perfect. I would not have enjoyed everything over right after the battle.
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                                        FIRST CYCLE or SECOND CYCLE


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                                        • Originally posted by Jason2379 View Post
                                          I’m still not quite sure who the big bad is. It’s like in part 1 they were still planning for the Mind Flayer to be the main villain but now it seems it’s Vecna? Did Vecna create it? Did it take control of it? Is Vecna still just a soldier for the Mind Flayer? Also I’m in the strong believe that the Upside Down was created by El and that she will need to die for it to disappear.
                                          Yep, I do believe UD is strongly connected to El and that she will see that next season. The Mind Flyer is the real enemy imo, what El will have to face right at the end. And probably it is in fact part of El... so killing it will mean also ending El.
                                          CHECK UKMIX RETRO Chart Facts
                                          FIRST CYCLE or SECOND CYCLE


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                                          • Originally posted by cheapthrills View Post
                                            I've been avoiding this thread until I saw the remaining two episodes because of spoilers, and oh wow that was a lot to unpack. I kind of wish it had been split into four episodes so I could digest it a little more. But Hawkins splitting with the "earthquake" was a pretty epic finish.

                                            Jason is hot garbage I'm so annoyed that the headphones got crushed in that fight.




                                            Good for me too ! I liked the closure at the end
                                            It was so satisfying seeing him die in the earthquake. But I wish it was slow and painful after him trying to strangle Lucas to death.

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by Jason2379 View Post
                                              I’m still not quite sure who the big bad is. It’s like in part 1 they were still planning for the Mind Flayer to be the main villain but now it seems it’s Vecna? Did Vecna create it? Did it take control of it? Is Vecna still just a soldier for the Mind Flayer? Also I’m in the strong believe that the Upside Down was created by El and that she will need to die for it to disappear.
                                              Yes that confused me too. Earlier on in the season they said he was a footsoldier for the Mind Flayer but now it seems like he is the big bad?? I don't really understand...

                                              I did like how they used references from other films, like the first Halloween when Vecna disappears after being thrown out the window, exploding balloons from It and even I Know What You Did Last Summer when Max says "What are you waiting for"

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                                              • I think the final episodes confirmed that the big bad is 100% Vecna.

                                                Back when he was a kid, Vecna was obsessed with spiders and we saw him drawing pictures of a giant spider like creature. Decades later when Eleven banishes him into The Upside Down, we see him discover a Dust Monster who he connects to psychically and manipulates into the same spider like creature of his childhood. Thus, the Mind Flayer was born and is seemingly under the control of Vecna.

                                                Dustin, who has always been right (and the creators mouthpiece for simplifying what’s going on), appears to have it backwards this time - The Mind Flayer is a minion of Vecna. The fact more wasn’t made of this (within the show) is odd, so we don’t know if the characters have put the pieces together yet. Therefore I’m guessing this might be a plot point in season five - if Vecna can mind control the Mind Flayer, what’s to stop Eleven doing the same?

                                                We don’t know if the Mind Flayer has any sort of agency, beyond being a central point for the hive. It might even be possible that the Mind Flayer hates Vecna and wants nothing to do with the war he’s raging against Eleven. Seeing as Eleven was able to control the vines in the final episode (and access the hive, freeing Steve, Robin and Nancy physically and freeing herself mentally - as Eleven wasn’t physically there with Vecna when she was tied up), my guess is she has already tapped into mind controlling the Mind Flayer without even realising it.

                                                I also think that every time the Mind Flayer has spoken, it was always Vecna.

                                                That’s my take on it.
                                                Exsqueeze me!

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by cheapthrills View Post
                                                  I've been avoiding this thread until I saw the remaining two episodes because of spoilers, and oh wow that was a lot to unpack. I kind of wish it had been split into four episodes so I could digest it a little more. But Hawkins splitting with the "earthquake" was a pretty epic finish.

                                                  Jason is hot garbage I'm so annoyed that the headphones got crushed in that fight.




                                                  Good for me too ! I liked the closure at the end
                                                  Moderators unite.
                                                  "What goes around comes back around my baby"

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Originally posted by Artoo View Post
                                                    I think the final episodes confirmed that the big bad is 100% Vecna.

                                                    Back when he was a kid, Vecna was obsessed with spiders and we saw him drawing pictures of a giant spider like creature. Decades later when Eleven banishes him into The Upside Down, we see him discover a Dust Monster who he connects to psychically and manipulates into the same spider like creature of his childhood. Thus, the Mind Flayer was born and is seemingly under the control of Vecna.

                                                    Dustin, who has always been right (and the creators mouthpiece for simplifying what’s going on), appears to have it backwards this time - The Mind Flayer is a minion of Vecna. The fact more wasn’t made of this (within the show) is odd, so we don’t know if the characters have put the pieces together yet. Therefore I’m guessing this might be a plot point in season five - if Vecna can mind control the Mind Flayer, what’s to stop Eleven doing the same?

                                                    We don’t know if the Mind Flayer has any sort of agency, beyond being a central point for the hive. It might even be possible that the Mind Flayer hates Vecna and wants nothing to do with the war he’s raging against Eleven. Seeing as Eleven was able to control the vines in the final episode (and access the hive, freeing Steve, Robin and Nancy physically and freeing herself mentally - as Eleven wasn’t physically there with Vecna when she was tied up), my guess is she has already tapped into mind controlling the Mind Flayer without even realising it.

                                                    I also think that every time the Mind Flayer has spoken, it was always Vecna.

                                                    That’s my take on it.
                                                    I’m pretty with this theory.

                                                    For everyone too, where do we think this story/show will end?

                                                    Right now the town/and world have acknowledged some bad stuff is going on. Yet, can we really wait a few years to see late teenagers/adults playing D&D and creating characters?

                                                    If the next season is the last, what do you think will make it substantial.
                                                    "What goes around comes back around my baby"

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