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  • Originally posted by clh_hilary View Post
    So basically, you would refuse to accept any evidence unless an unethical study could be done. A study that could potentially cause the loss of lives of your research participants.

    Also, the fact that you are using quotation marks to seemingly suggest they aren't real studies is pathetic. They are published, peer-reviewed studies done by actual university academics.

    I wonder if you believe condoms could prevent the spread of HIV? There has never been a study with control groups to test whether someone is infected by a known HIV positive person with the same viral load by having their HIV negative subjects have sex with that person with or without a condom. Based on your logic, this means we won't know whether condoms could prevent the spread of HIV.

    We also don't know if vaccines work. We haven't had a study to intentionally infect someone with the disease and infect someone else who has been vaccinated. We have only been looking into the trends and numbers. You could do a study on the falling number of pirates and say that's the cause for those diseases to disappear, right?
    @clh_hilary

    Vaccines are scientifically tested, Einstein. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/basics/test-approve.html You don't have to intentionally infect someone for testing. You do need control groups to compare infection rates of vaccinated individuals to the unvaccinated before declaring a benefit. You're saying you'd just let them give you anything than?

    You could do a study on the falling number of pirates and say that's the cause for those diseases to disappear, right?
    You do realize that this is what you've been doing right?

    There were tangible numbers regarding the ability of condoms to block bodily fluids and numerous studies (proper scientific mind you) regarding the ability of condoms to limit STD transmission. This was actually a much smaller leap logically than your claims regarding 13RW. Hilariously, a lot of the early and demonstrably false papers on AIDS were built on flimsy mathematical models and conjecture. Those got published also.

    Not exactly the same thing as A. assuming a group of individuals watched a TV show and B. assuming that a specific action was taken as a result. In this scenario, confirming that the individuals were even aware of the show let alone watched it in totality is critical.

    When you can produce hard numbers regarding an increased number of suicides among viewers of this show, let me know. Until then, take a seat.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by WEBofDESIRE View Post
      @clh_hilary

      Vaccines are scientifically tested, Einstein. https://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/basics/test-approve.html You don't have to intentionally infect someone for testing. You do need control groups to compare infection rates of vaccinated individuals to the unvaccinated before declaring a benefit. You're saying you'd just let them give you anything than?



      You do realize that this is what you've been doing right?

      There were tangible numbers regarding the ability of condoms to block bodily fluids and numerous studies (proper scientific mind you) regarding the ability of condoms to limit STD transmission. This was actually a much smaller leap logically than your claims regarding 13RW. Hilariously, a lot of the early and demonstrably false papers on AIDS were built on flimsy mathematical models and conjecture. Those got published also.

      Not exactly the same thing as A. assuming a group of individuals watched a TV show and B. assuming that a specific action was taken as a result. In this scenario, confirming that the individuals were even aware of the show let alone watched it in totality is critical.

      When you can produce hard numbers regarding an increased number of suicides among viewers of this show, let me know. Until then, take a seat.
      It's not my claim. That's where you are wrong. You keep insisting that this is my view versus your view. When it's the conclusion from 2 published empirical studies against your assertion.

      The only way your suggestion would work is to make it unethical. It's not possible to have control groups after the fact because they would have died. You cannot go ask the dead whether 13 Reasons Why influenced the decision. You cannot test the impact of not watching the show, because you don't know whether they would actually kill themselves.

      I repeat: the only way you suggest a research could be valid would be to let them view a potentially harmful show and see if they would die, with no intervention until they actually are dead.

      And once again, you're acting like there's no basis at all to form the hypothesis in the first place. The hypothesis could be formed because the first season broke almost every established guideline from the scientific consensus of mental health experts.
      Originally posted by WhatTheHell
      Voice of the truth here!! :(

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Hejira View Post
        [MENTION=24353]clh_hilary[/MENTION] I'm just observing your point of view and the agenda is jumping out quite obviously. You're trying to make your point clear with some aggressive examples and opinions while not even considering the other side of the story. That's all.
        So far, I have been the only one providing actual evidence, so forgive me for not listening to what is not being actually presented. The only things I have seen here are:

        a. assertions with absolutely nothing to support them;

        b. the rejection of published results from empirical research with the reasoning being they are not conducted in what would clearly be an unethical method.
        Originally posted by WhatTheHell
        Voice of the truth here!! :(

        Comment


        • Originally posted by clh_hilary View Post
          It's not my claim. That's where you are wrong. You keep insisting that this is my view versus your view. When it's the conclusion from 2 published empirical studies against your assertion.

          The only way your suggestion would work is to make it unethical. It's not possible to have control groups after the fact because they would have died. You cannot go ask the dead whether 13 Reasons Why influenced the decision. You cannot test the impact of not watching the show, because you don't know whether they would actually kill themselves.

          I repeat: the only way you suggest a research could be valid would be to let them view a potentially harmful show and see if they would die, with no intervention until they actually are dead.

          And once again, you're acting like there's no basis at all to form the hypothesis in the first place. The hypothesis could be formed because the first season broke almost every established guideline from the scientific consensus of mental health experts.
          I never acted like there was no basis for a hypothesis, to the contrary you acted (aggressively) like you were presenting an inarguable scientific conclusion. Which, by your own admission, is impossible because the data being analyzed lacks key control elements.

          I never even argued that 13RW S01 couldn't be a problem in this way. In fact, I can see where it could be. Not so much for the suicide scene itself, but more the way the whole thing was romanticized as a way for the victim to have the final say on the bullies. The reality though is that data can be analyzed to make educated guesses, but that is all. No one can say conclusively that X people died, or for that matter that X people were saved by 13RW. Given the specifics available for analysis, even a scientifically credible cause and effect relationship would be unrealistic.

          Comment


          • Also, it seems like there are better venues for this discussion.

            Comment


            • All of this for a teenage show.
              5.05.2009 / 6.22.2011 / 4.24.2013 / 4.25.2013 / 3.1.2014 / 9.13.2014 / 7.21.2016 / 7.14.2018 / 7.15.2018

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              • The mess in here Poor [MENTION=53607]BehindBreakaway[/MENTION] accused of being on the same level as a Stalin supporter

                I also think the bad reviews are unjustified. Yes there are some weak points and yes the time jumps are annoying(especially since the present has this dark washed out vibe) but I thought it was better than S2. Some of the character development was a little out of line but whatever this didn't have a GOT build up.

                Cannot believe the Ani actress had to get off social media. People are freaking dumb how is it possible not being able to separate? Probably also due to the fact that a high percentage of teenagers is watching this but still
                aRat's NUDES LEAKED

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                • Originally posted by KEY9481 View Post
                  All of this for a teenage show.
                  At least I'm working towards a better week on that countdown of posters thing.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by BeeBoy View Post
                    The mess in here Poor [MENTION=53607]BehindBreakaway[/MENTION] accused of being on the same level as a Stalin supporter

                    I also think the bad reviews are unjustified. Yes there are some weak points and yes the time jumps are annoying(especially since the present has this dark washed out vibe) but I thought it was better than S2. Some of the character development was a little out of line but whatever this didn't have a GOT build up.

                    Cannot believe the Ani actress had to get off social media. People are freaking dumb how is it possible not being able to separate? Probably also due to the fact that a high percentage of teenagers is watching this but still
                    Thank you I stopped replying because I just don't care that much lol. I enjoyed the series
                    Love you like a love song!

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                    • Oh my god, Ani is the worst. Patronising, manipulative bitch who judges everybody else on the daily yet is happy to have sex with a rapist.

                      Four episodes left, have avoided all spoilers and Iím plumping for Ani as the killer - originally thought it would be Monty. Monty is absolutely despicable and I hope he gets a comeuppance. The scene between Clay and Tyler where Tyler told him everything was brilliantly moving.

                      Not here for a Bryce redemption sorry, he was an awful person.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Thriller View Post
                        Oh my god, Ani is the worst. Patronising, manipulative bitch who judges everybody else on the daily yet is happy to have sex with a rapist.

                        Four episodes left, have avoided all spoilers and Iím plumping for Ani as the killer - originally thought it would be Monty. Monty is absolutely despicable and I hope he gets a comeuppance. The scene between Clay and Tyler where Tyler told him everything was brilliantly moving.

                        Not here for a Bryce redemption sorry, he was an awful person.
                        Lol funny how I have just finished the 9th episode and actually really like Ani's character and I enjoy the Bryce redemption.
                        I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
                        I'm in the shadows in the corners of my room

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by WEBofDESIRE View Post
                          [MENTION=24353]clh_hilary[/MENTION], the only wishful thinking is in your "studies". They are scientifically meaningless because results are based purely on the circumstance of time and not any direct links to 13RW. I could create a similar "study" when a new ice cream flavor is released.
                          Basically.

                          The way some people here behave like they're the reincarnation of Einstein and feel the need to lecture the rest of us because they've got an overpriced university degree and found 2 'studies' that support their opinion.

                          Literally all of us have at least one degree and know how to read / conduct studies.

                          Comment


                          • So Ani proved me wrong and came good in the end by trying to cover up for Alex and Jess. Loved Jess in this season and warmed to Clay and Justin more.

                            Bryceís beating by Zach and subsequent death was satisfying to watch. He deserved every bit of it and hadnít changed deep down IMO, despite what he said on the tape.

                            Monty was incredibly messed up and I feel a bit sad about his death but he also wouldíve hurt a lot more people in his life after prison.

                            This was a brilliant season, better than the second. It couldíve happily been the final one so Iíll be interested to see what happens in the fourth... how much more can these kids go through?!

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                            • I have finished watching this but I really am tired of this endless plot stretching. This season could have been done in 6 episodes. And now they want to keep stretching it... I guess TV series are really just not for me. At least not in this format
                              I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
                              I'm in the shadows in the corners of my room

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                              • I wasn't expecting it so soon.
                                Love you like a love song!

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                                • Nor me! They've bashed this one out.

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                                  • I could never even get through the first season of this. Only watched like 2/3 episodes, but it was incredibly inaccurate to the book
                                    You drew stars around my scars

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                                    • SEASON 4 TRAILER

                                      5.05.2009 / 6.22.2011 / 4.24.2013 / 4.25.2013 / 3.1.2014 / 9.13.2014 / 7.21.2016 / 7.14.2018 / 7.15.2018

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                                      • So happy this is finally ending.
                                        Akini's Top 100 Albums of the Decade: [80-76]

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                                        • So Clay (and others) are still having hallucinations/flashbacks. Trailer ramping up the thriller aspect. A big change from what it started out as. But we'll see...
                                          Tony's Charts ft Hits / Albums (8th August 20) - Hannah Georgas, Hannah Ferm, Alain Johannes, Arre! Arre!, The Ninth Wave, Taylor Swift ft Bon Iver, The Streets ft Idles, The Psychedelic Furs, Wye Oak, SPC ECO, Max Richter, Rival Consoles, !!!, Jon Anderson, Clint Mansell and Clint Walsh, Hatty Keane, Alanis Morissette

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                                          • This girl had a few similar thoughts to mine in 'decoding' the S4 trailer as far as how they're going to get to some type of 'satisfying' or 'good' ending to this. I hadn't yet posted thoughts on S3 trying to find the best way to articulate - They've all been through so much heavy stuff, but also now they're in really deep and kinda crossing a line with framing Monty and to a certain extent dealing with Tyler by themselves (although its turned out ok with Tyler..... so far).

                                            I liked that the Bryce 'redemption' played out in S3 wasn't totally black and white and flipped a switch - he still had regressive moments (especially with what he did to Zach after finding out about Chloe).

                                            And don't get me wrong, Monty definitely no angel either and in no way excuses what he did to Tyler, but was kinda hoping everything comes out in S4 (through Winston; however misguided he may be if he was trying to rehabilitate Monty from his abusive home life and thinking he wasn't worth it continuing to hurt others and Winston himself) exposing the gangs little secrets that should've been owned up to from the start (although there wouldn't be any drama for the show then).

                                            Like even though an accident (albeit roid-rage induced) Bryce could've been left to freeze to death by Zach if Alex hadn't come along and finished things off and then that would've been partly on him, but the cops are all 'meh, he drowned so you're off the hook. was a rapist anyway'.

                                            At least it would show (since they're dealing with these serious topics) to deal with the consequences (however hard they may be) before it spirals out of control to this point. but theres a bit of moral grey area involved too. I don't know how they're gonna finish it off, will it be a bittersweet/dark ending?

                                            Also this season's 10 eps instead of 13 eps.
                                            UKMIXtapes Vol.3 | ROUND 9!

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                                            • Its out now - heres a predictions video from the FBE reactors to 13 questions.



                                              Might answer some of these before I start.
                                              1. Do you think this season will have a new mystery? I'm leaning towards no, this will basically just deal with all the fallout of the cover ups from S3 and S2 to bring everything to a head. I can't see what else new they would start this late and being the final season with only 10 eps unless it branches off something else.
                                              2. Do you think Justin & Jessica will make it as a couple? in S3 I was thinking how although they have more understanding of each other through their shared experiences with surviving sexual abuse, on the other hand is that really the healthiest thing to bond over in a relationship how they've both been through some pretty f'ed up stuff moving forward? I dunno. Maybe the whole thing with Justin possibly doing some rehab will test their relationship in S4. Maybe she'll end up back with Alex depending on how he finishes out the series.
                                              3. Do you you think Clay and Ani will be a couple? Well aren't they already at the end of S3? Don't know if they will get past the end of the series though, unless some dramah happens in that department during S4.
                                              4. Do you think the authorities will find out about what happened at spring fling? Yes. as I said before I hope it all comes out. whether that will be they actually connect it to Tyler or it will be the scapegoat to cover up something else we'll have to see.
                                              5. Do you think one of the main crew that are left will die this season, or will they all survive? Unclear. There is some kind of body in the trailer but is it a dream sequence?
                                              6. Do you think Alex will hurt or kill someone else in season 4? Depends if he's still using the steroids and how the cover up falling apart affects him I guess.
                                              7. Do YOU think Alex killed Bryce, or could it have actually been somebody else? It's a twist they could go with, but it would be possibly teetering on the verge of realism for the show, as it would be if they bring Monty back.
                                              8. Do you think Alex will go to jail in season 4? If that truth doesn't ultimately come out whether it be by his dad covering still or they clear Monty but ultimately Bryce's death remains unsolved. I'm leaning towards a no on this one, because it was an accident (even though they left him there), unless they find out about the roids.
                                              9. Do you think someone will narrate the final season, just like they've done in the past? Maybe it will be a character per episode, or I've seen a theory maybe Clay's sessions with Dr Ellman will form the throughline for this season, Like Ani talking to Deputy Standall last season.
                                              10. Do you think Bryce may have left his own 13 tapes? Hard no on that one. I think that was a one off. Bryce would then have to have been planning his own demise or known he had a target on his back to put some planning in for something like that regardless.
                                              11. After getting tragically deported, do you think Tony's family will come back in season 4? unsure, this is a storyline thats quite disconnected to a lot of other stuff we have going on, like it was in S3. Although it's been a while, Tony and Bryce spent some time together last season when Bryce heard Hannah's tapes.
                                              12. Do you think Monty is actually dead? Leaning towards yes, it'd be good just for the drama if no, but I could be surprised. Even though it wasn't shown onscreen.
                                              13. Do you think Clay will keep his secrets, or will he eventually tell them? I think he'll come clean, or something will force him to when everything just goes to shiz lets say episode 7 or 8.
                                              UKMIXtapes Vol.3 | ROUND 9!

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                                              • Season 4 is pretty good. Not up there with 1 of course but enough to keep me interested. 1st half is a thriller, 2nd half gets emotional. Ep 7 is pivotal and timely. I did well up on the last ep though not at the point they wanted me to. A certain guest spot.

                                                Weirdly there are no official soundtracks this time - not even an Eskmo score. But Netflix have made a 59 track playlist on Spotify - all pre-existing material. https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2W...Q8-fgFVuoG73Pg
                                                Tony's Charts ft Hits / Albums (8th August 20) - Hannah Georgas, Hannah Ferm, Alain Johannes, Arre! Arre!, The Ninth Wave, Taylor Swift ft Bon Iver, The Streets ft Idles, The Psychedelic Furs, Wye Oak, SPC ECO, Max Richter, Rival Consoles, !!!, Jon Anderson, Clint Mansell and Clint Walsh, Hatty Keane, Alanis Morissette

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                                                • Wow, this season was startlingly good. Best season of the series, honestly. What a way to end!
                                                  Akini's Top 100 Albums of the Decade: [80-76]

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                                                  • Finished, split it up over two days.

                                                    Spoiler!

                                                    Anyways maybe some more comprised thoughts later but has anyone else watched it yet?
                                                    UKMIXtapes Vol.3 | ROUND 9!

                                                    Comment


                                                    • Originally posted by Affillate View Post
                                                      Spoiler!
                                                      Charlie was the MVP of the season for me. His charm rivals Suburgatory's Malik.

                                                      Originally posted by Affillate View Post
                                                      Spoiler!
                                                      Spoiler!


                                                      Originally posted by Affillate View Post
                                                      Anyways maybe some more comprised thoughts later but has anyone else watched it yet?
                                                      Spoiler!

                                                      Akini's Top 100 Albums of the Decade: [80-76]

                                                      Comment


                                                      • Originally posted by JSparksFan View Post
                                                        Spoiler!
                                                        Spoiler!


                                                        UKMIXtapes Vol.3 | ROUND 9!

                                                        Comment


                                                        • I'm surprised that people would think this was up there with the first season. Not at all. S1 were all 10s or 9s for me, this never went higher than an 8 - just like S3.
                                                          S1 had a clear focus and that was kept throughout. This season essentially leads fans down a merry path before revealling its true nature. The acting of those involved kept me involved though and it's by no means bad, just S3 continued.

                                                          Spoiler!
                                                          Last edited by Blondini; Sun June 7, 2020, 21:21.
                                                          Tony's Charts ft Hits / Albums (8th August 20) - Hannah Georgas, Hannah Ferm, Alain Johannes, Arre! Arre!, The Ninth Wave, Taylor Swift ft Bon Iver, The Streets ft Idles, The Psychedelic Furs, Wye Oak, SPC ECO, Max Richter, Rival Consoles, !!!, Jon Anderson, Clint Mansell and Clint Walsh, Hatty Keane, Alanis Morissette

                                                          Comment


                                                          • For me it literally felt like each episode was a different Netflix show. It's like they really lost their way. I just did not enjoy this season very much if I'm honest. I genuinely do not understand how anyone could think this is one of the best seasons. Its not. For me it's at the bottom
                                                            Love you like a love song!

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