The Random Thought Thread

[Timmy94]

In Germany, you need to follow a certain teaching programme that includes 3-5 years of college studies (according to the type of school and the subjects you choose) along with a couple of internships, a thesis and final exams, followed by a practical period taking place at school and some kind of training school that goes on for another 1.5-2 years, which ends again with final exams. And only then, you're allowed to work as an officially recognized teacher - even for primary schools!

normally, u have to go to university for 5 years (3 years Bachelor, 2 years Masters) and afterwards, you enter a training period of 18 months which ends with a final exam (second State Examnation). You will only get paid fully when you succeed at all tests and exams... I think €6,6k per month is the most anyone could earn as a teacher in Germany. (half of what the chancellor makes each month). I am entering the training period this August.. yay..

all in all, it takes 6,5 years to finally become a teacher here, which makes this porfession one of highest professions you can have here.

Not all colleges have adapted the bachelor/master system yet though. I recently had a look at how the theoretical part of the training is built up and it's actually made up of multiple smaller exams that form the final mark of the 2nd Staatsexamen. And yeah, another thesis has to be written .

And yeah, the training in order to become a teacher takes ages, it'd better be worth it...

what ArmyOfMe said, I've never had any prior courses or practice when it comes to teaching, but foreign language schools often hire students as well. I'm learning it all on the go

and now when I'm actually starting to have teaching courses I realize how useless and ridiculous everything here is, and that I would end up having to learn through practice and experience anyway

Reading this and knowing about your academic background, I think the Croatian educational system is kind of lousy. This obviously has nothing to do with you in person or with your skills, but it's a totally different thing to train as a teacher in Germany. I mean, Nackar studies English Studies and he told me that he might have to work as a teacher later on. That alone is already impossible in Germany because the pure English students work in many kind of jobs but NOT teaching; teachers (e.g. with English as subject) have their own programme. So you have to actively want to work as a teacher in Germany and can't accept this option if nothing else works.
The only exception is when it comes to subjects that are in very high demand and there's no teacher for them. In that case, a person that studied the subject in its pure form is allowed to work as teacher as well (well, they enter the programme during the 2nd training phase and so only need to train for 1.5 more years before working as full teachers despite not even started this programme at college). That of course is rather going to happen in the case of. e.g. physics than English. A studied math teacher is always better than a studied mathematician, they simply have different focuses in their training and work.
In the vast majority of cases, you need to do this teaching programme of the subjects for the school type of your choice. Oh yeah, and you can't study teaching he way you study law, you already specialize right from the start. And according to that, you have your scientific and didactic courses as well as courses in educational science. And then you have 4 required internships, some of them supervised by the college staff. Considering all of that, I'm not sure whether it's useful to work as teacher if you lack this distinct background.

what ArmyOfMe said, I've never had any prior courses or practice when it comes to teaching, but foreign language schools often hire students as well. I'm learning it all on the go

and now when I'm actually starting to have teaching courses I realize how useless and ridiculous everything here is, and that I would end up having to learn through practice and experience anyway

Exactly. Keep doing it, I think that's the best way to go.
The process to teach in public schools is very long here too, but what you often meet is unprepared professors that didn't have enough practice. As I said, it's a good thing to balance theory and practice, also because teaching is such a delicate job that doesn't only require knowledge, but also the ability to interact with people. And no Bachelor or Master degree will teach you that.

In Germany, you mostly learn theory during your studies at college. For example, in my scientific math courses, I learned things I'm almost certainly never going to use again because those issues are so far away from the type of math taught at school. But that's required because teachers are supposed to see their disciples as a whole and know what else it has to offer bar the typical school contents. In my didactic math courses, I focus on concrete school contents, how they can be taught, why they are taught and the purpose and goals of math in school. And some of the things discussed in this courses can actually be applied at school. For example, we just dealt with origami and that can be used to make children look into geometry in an active way.
After you've learned all the theoretic stuff, you're finally going to deal with the practical issues at school and at your training school. You give your first lessons and reflect them at your training school and learn some more about concrete applied didactics according to your subjects.

but I do think some people are really naturally great teachers and have more potential and do it effortlessly + one's personality/confidence is also a big thing

I'm definitely not one of those tho so I'll just have to work harder and longer

Yeah, some basics need to be there right from the start. You need to be able to deal with kids, speak in front of an audience, have some kind of teacher personality. But the rest can be learned, otherwise you wouldn't need to do a distinct training in order to be qualified to work as a teacher.

but I do think some people are really naturally great teachers and have more potential and do it effortlessly + one's personality/confidence is also a big thing

I'm definitely not one of those tho so I'll just have to work harder and longer

i agree.. i hated all educational courses during my studies.. idk for the history of education and i think it is an unspoken rule and common sense to not psychologically torture kids... hehe... anybody can be a teacher.. all you need is... to like children and the job of explaining things.

Why did you hate them? Did that include the didactic courses as well? I think it depends on whether your college supports the teaching programmes in a focused way or rather takes them as a side thing. For example, my college used to offer a subject called basic sciences ("Grundwissenschaften") and that one included subjects like sociology, psychology, politology and pedagogics. A few years ago, that subject was switched to educational sciences ("Bildungswissenschaften") and the main disciplines are much more interdisciplinary now and have a greater focus on school (4 fields: judging, teaching, educating and innovating) instead of talking about education in a general way. Now you have courses on e.g. classroom management or the evaluation of tests which is more relevant than just talking about pedagogic theories that don't really help you when you're wishing to be qualified to work as a teacher.

I can only wish teaching was nearly as apprieciated where I come from. Everyone hates teachers, people think tehy only complain, even though they work onyl 20h a week and what not. Not to emntion that street cleaner earns more than teacher...

Street cleaners earn more than teachers in Serbia ? I see why no one wants to work as such there . Reminds me a bit of the US teacher "training" (which isn't really a training the way it's commonly known): From what I understood, you basically study anything, do some additional courses, get yourself a license and that's it already. Pretty random and in no way comparable to what Germans experience as part of the equivalent. I believe that that's why the reputation of teachers in the US is so low since many people apply for this job in spite of a lack of alternatives - great conditions for the kids to be taught :-? . I mean look at US teachers being portrayed in TV shows - Mr. Garrison, Eddy Stark? I had a talk with Kushi on that topic and it sounded like it would be similar.

But in Germany, it's not uncommon that you need a specified training/studies as qualification for certain jobs, while that aspect seems more open in the US. It's clear that you're likely to be a better teacher if you go through a long training that is supposed to prepare you for the work as a teacher than just studying anything and saying "well, what could I do with it? Oh, becoming a teacher."

I had a lecturer who always told us about how awesome the Northern European educational system is. I wonder how the training in order to become a teacher works there. But one thing is sure, with all of its requirements and regulations, the German teaching programme is standing out in the worldwide ranking and once you've actually managed to graduate, you can already be proud of yourself and be likely to be a good teacher as well.

I always wanted to become teacher for primary school, but then I changed my mind, I am not made for this

Why do you think that you're not made for it? Kindergartens (in your case for disabled children) and primary schools of course have different purposes and goals, but I e.g. did an internship in a kindergarten and towards the end, I simply missed the challenge in this practice. It was the same kind of stuff to be done each day; eating breakfast together, singing, playing, drawing... I also felt that I lacked the connection to those young kids. As teacher, you're rather supposed to teach knowledge rather than competences and imo, more variety (= multiple subjects, different classes). But the good thing about education is that there's something for everyone: from kindergarten teacher to lecturer .

Since you like the work with disabled kids: Would special education teacher have been an option for you or is dealing with kids at the typical kindergarten age "your thing"?

[ArmyOfMe]

In Germany

[Carbon]

In Germany

I was wondering if I was the only one who noticed the pattern

[Brad]

In Germany

I was wondering if I was the only one who noticed the pattern in Germany

[biscuits]

Ain't nobody got time to read that sis

[Erotica]

@timmy: I don't like being in front of big groups, I can not deal with that

maybe yes, I think I even tried it, but didn't get in, my grades were too bad

[Rihab]

In Germany

Sorry, but that's so damn annoying. :-?

[ArmyOfMe]

In Germany

Sorry, but that's so damn annoying. :-?

I meant no offence towards any state, it could be any other one indeed.
It was just my way to eloquently state that what happens in a certain place may not necessarily be the best solution for another state with different social, cultural and economic conditions.
Calling the educational system of another state "lousy", without any direct or indirect experience of it, is way more annoying, if you ask me

[Rihab]

In Germany

Sorry, but that's so damn annoying. :-?

I meant no offence towards any state, it could be any other one indeed.
It was just my way to eloquently state that what happens in a certain place may not necessarily be the best solution for another state with different social, cultural and economic conditions.
Calling the educational system of another state "lousy", without any direct or indirect experience of it, is way more annoying, if you ask me

I know!! I was kinda siding with you, seeing 'in Germany', 'in German' and then these huge walls of text in every thread gives me eye cancer.

[ArmyOfMe]

Ah ok then! Sorry sis

[MrRager]

Serby's favorite Austrian musician Leo Aberer

I WANNA PLAY MY BLUES WOOOAAAHHHH YEAH THOSE KANGAROOS!

[oasisbobo]

How old was the original Random Thot Thread? I'm sad all those years worth of conversations are gone forever in the ether. :(

Such a shame! It should be placed in the hall of fame!

[oasisbobo]

Black and White Boy have just released their new single 'A Beautiful Revolution' taken from their upcoming new album 'The Avenue' due for release later this month.

You can download the new single now with all proceeds going to the Africa On The Ball charity. Africa On The Ball is an organisation which uses the power of football as a vehicle for the advancement of health, education and enterprise in deprived areas of Africa.

http://blackandwhiteboy.bandcamp.com/al ... revolution

[Airwrecka]

It's in the Test section if you ever want to read it, George.

[Merci]

Serious question

Did your fave ever make someone so pressed they cried on air???????????????

Hehe

[ArmyOfMe]

Serious question

Did your fave ever make someone so pressed they cried on air???????????????

More like the drugs

[Timmy94]

Ain't nobody got time to read that sis

I involved a lot of effort and time to write this, so yes, you will read and comment on it!

@timmy: I don't like being in front of big groups, I can not deal with that

maybe yes, I think I even tried it, but didn't get in, my grades were too bad

It's useful to be able to speak in front of quite many people if you want to work as teacher, yes, but then again, you might have up to 20 children in your group as kindergarten teacher as well. But that's something you can actually learn. I also thought that I wouldn't be able to stand in front of a big crowd, but during my first school internship, I noticed that I didn't do too much of a bad job. What matters is that you're well-prepared and don't worry too much if things happen that weren't planned as such, just act as if it wasn't a big thing or part of your "show" .

So you applied for the studies in order to become a teacher for special education but weren't accepted?

In Germany

Sorry, but that's so damn annoying. :-?

I meant no offence towards any state, it could be any other one indeed.
It was just my way to eloquently state that what happens in a certain place may not necessarily be the best solution for another state with different social, cultural and economic conditions.
Calling the educational system of another state "lousy", without any direct or indirect experience of it, is way more annoying, if you ask me

Well, I can say it a bit more concretely: Most of the international teaching programmes have got NOTHING on German programme. And especially if I read about how it's handled in other countries, I'm not really surprised about the reputation of teachers there. I mean, there are even people that say that the training of German teachers wouldn't be practical enough when the training focuses on having a teacher that's considered an allrounder (scientific and didactic abilities, educational know how and practical experience).

Of course I talk about Germany since the German system is the one I know the best and I of course need to rely on that one in order to inform other people about it.

Serby's favorite Austrian musician Leo Aberer

I WANNA PLAY MY BLUES WOOOAAAHHHH YEAH THOSE KANGAROOS!

The Austrian icon ! OK, he's yet to get a gold cert even in his own country, but he's got other qualities than the ability to sell, right ?

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Dear Mr. [...],
>
> I just wanted to let you know that I won't be able to attend the seminar on [...]. That day, I'll have a one-time meeting I need to attend in order to get credit for the "[...]"-course by Mrs. [...].
>
> Please let me know whether that's fine!
>
> Best regards,
[...]

Hi,

thanks for your message!

Best,

Prof. [...]

[toni_pest]

Ain't nobody got time to read that sis

I involved a lot of effort and time to write this, so yes, you will read and comment on it!

[flopho]

Ain't nobody got time to read that sis

I involved a lot of effort and time to write this, so yes, you will read and comment on it!

my god

[CrazyCrazy]

Timmy....

[Hugo]

I'm scared of Timmy

[Serby]

timmy, the alpha, dominant amle!

[Rihab]

omg who cares? :-?

[stevyy]

omg who cares? :-?

In Germany, we have a saying for this: niemand!

[Serby]

omg who cares? :-?

In Germany, we have a saying for this: niemand!

Hmm, that's weird. I though you first ahd to go 5 years to uni and send in the thesis?