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  • #61
    Originally posted by RLAAMJR
    Originally posted by aaliyahman
    I think your reasoning is stupid to be honest.

    Men and women do have naturally different bodies and therefore limits. By your reasoning a man would ALWAYS be best at something that is based on physicality. That isn't true.

    The men have had to compete with other men. When a man gets as many accolades as Serena has, then they can be compared.

    Amongst women I think Serena is the greatest of all time.

    Amongst all that remains to be seen. If anyone can match her singles and doubles wins in slams and legacy then they can have a chance. Serena hasn't always been dominant but she has always been the most 'dangerous' for most of her career.
    but the greatest has to be at least arguably the best. Do you think Serena can have as many titles as she have right now if she doesnt play against female players only but play against male tennis players too?
    Your logic is wrong.

    By your assumption, the greatest in most sports would always HAVE to be a man.

    If you are arguably the greatest amongst all women and you have 23 Slams etc etc. Then the Male who would arguably be the greatest would have to have achieved the same amongst the males as Serena has amongst females. Or gone through an incredibly dominant period i.e. #1 for 5 years etc.

    I didn't follow men's tennis as a child only the past 10 years or so.
    For the fans of male tennis, who has the most slams? Is it around the 23 mark or much higher?
    "What goes around comes back around my baby"

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    • #62
      Originally posted by emilhot
      I'm so excited for Wozniacki's great return to form! Reaching a final last week and very well another final this week is amazing! I think that her current level will give her a great chance in a potential final against Kerber or Svitolina. Though I'm afraid that she will be a bit tired in a potential final, as it would be her 11th match in about the same number of days...

      I love that Wozniacki is back, it really is lovely to see the renaissance of some players!

      She's in the final!
      "What goes around comes back around my baby"

      Comment


      • #63
        Originally posted by aaliyahman
        Originally posted by RLAAMJR
        Originally posted by aaliyahman
        I think your reasoning is stupid to be honest.

        Men and women do have naturally different bodies and therefore limits. By your reasoning a man would ALWAYS be best at something that is based on physicality. That isn't true.

        The men have had to compete with other men. When a man gets as many accolades as Serena has, then they can be compared.

        Amongst women I think Serena is the greatest of all time.

        Amongst all that remains to be seen. If anyone can match her singles and doubles wins in slams and legacy then they can have a chance. Serena hasn't always been dominant but she has always been the most 'dangerous' for most of her career.
        but the greatest has to be at least arguably the best. Do you think Serena can have as many titles as she have right now if she doesnt play against female players only but play against male tennis players too?
        Your logic is wrong.

        By your assumption, the greatest in most sports would always HAVE to be a man.

        If you are arguably the greatest amongst all women and you have 23 Slams etc etc. Then the Male who would arguably be the greatest would have to have achieved the same amongst the males as Serena has amongst females. Or gone through an incredibly dominant period i.e. #1 for 5 years etc.

        I didn't follow men's tennis as a child only the past 10 years or so.
        For the fans of male tennis, who has the most slams? Is it around the 23 mark or much higher?
        Unless a woman beats a man, then yes. Serena as the greatest female tennis player sounds right rather than the greatest tennis player for both sexes.


        Would it be fair if a female weightlifter becomes the greatest weightlifter just because of having more title wins when there are hundreds of men who can lift heavier than the what the female weightlifter had lifted?


        For your other question, federer has the most slams, with
        Celine Marie Claudette Tanguay Dion-Angelil, #BestSellingArtistofthe90s #TheGreatestCanadian #SaviorofLasVegas #QueenofThemeSongs

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        • #64
          Well then, I completely disagree and I think your logic is infantile.

          Also, explain this article;

          https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/ ... a-rio-2016
          "What goes around comes back around my baby"

          Comment


          • #65
            Originally posted by aaliyahman
            Well then, I completely disagree and I think your logic is infantile.

            Also, explain this article;

            https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2016/ ... a-rio-2016
            It's gymnastics which two or more people just needs to show off their gymnastic skills. strnegth and speed doesnt really matter but execution and accuracy. Another example would be bowling, golf and archery. I know there are more examples but i dont want think think further.

            Its not like basketball, boxing, running, tennis, wieghtlifting,etc.
            Celine Marie Claudette Tanguay Dion-Angelil, #BestSellingArtistofthe90s #TheGreatestCanadian #SaviorofLasVegas #QueenofThemeSongs

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            • #66
              Wow you are ignorant. You've said enough to look stupid. Let's quit while you're behind.
              "What goes around comes back around my baby"

              Comment


              • #67
                Originally posted by aaliyahman
                Amongst women I think Serena is the greatest of all time.
                And one of the greatest athletes sport has EVER seen.

                Comment


                • #68
                  Speechless after Murray's win yesterday. That's why he is world number 1!
                  Too Much Music
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                  • #69
                    Kyrgios beat Djokovic, which is also an interesting result
                    Waffles are checked cookies

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                    • #70
                      I am disgusted I *hate* Nick.
                      "What goes around comes back around my baby"

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by aaliyahman
                        Wow you are ignorant. You've said enough to look stupid. Let's quit while you're behind.
                        I dont really know what your stand is but did you mean games should be separate between men and women?
                        Celine Marie Claudette Tanguay Dion-Angelil, #BestSellingArtistofthe90s #TheGreatestCanadian #SaviorofLasVegas #QueenofThemeSongs

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                        • #72
                          Gutted Serena has had to withdraw from IW and Miami.

                          Kerber will be back to number one, by default.
                          Hopefully she will win both tournaments so it won't look like a hollow placing.
                          "What goes around comes back around my baby"

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by aaliyahman
                            Gutted Serena has had to withdraw from IW and Miami.

                            Kerber will be back to number one, by default.
                            Hopefully she will win both tournaments so it won't look like a hollow placing.
                            Only Steffi ever won both in the same year (among Germans), Kerber will drop out in the second round and maybe QF on each. Pliskova will win one of them and be ready to take the #1 come April/May.
                            My Chart

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by aaliyahman
                              Gutted Serena has had to withdraw from IW and Miami.

                              Kerber will be back to number one, by default.
                              Hopefully she will win both tournaments so it won't look like a hollow placing.

                              I hope it pays off... i don't think she will take the French open tbh
                              Forever Young

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                              • #75
                                Idk what's wrong with Angie, but she's been playing horribly lately, there's no way she'll win anything. Same for Bouchard.

                                Comment


                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by Rihab
                                  Idk what's wrong with Angie, but she's been playing horribly lately, there's no way she'll win anything. Same for Bouchard.

                                  Pressure.

                                  A lot of WTA fans have said it all last year when some were rejoicing at how great Angelique was. There was the glaringly obvious point that she has played so many more tournaments than anyone else.
                                  Fair enough she could stand to lose at the warm ups but at the majors she has to be in every final.

                                  Hence why she got clocked out of number 1 with Serena winning the AO.
                                  It is actually Pliskova who has been much more consistent over 2016 to now yet she also HAS to play a lot to secure her points.

                                  The same thing is happening with Andy Murray, yet a lot of his loses seem to stem from his arrogance at playing the same game regardless of who he plays.
                                  "What goes around comes back around my baby"

                                  Comment


                                  • #77
                                    The same thing is happening with Andy Murray, yet a lot of his loses seem to stem from his arrogance at playing the same game regardless of who he plays.
                                    Novak is also experiencing some sort of disregard for less decorated opponents.
                                    Waffles are checked cookies

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                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by heppolo
                                      The same thing is happening with Andy Murray, yet a lot of his loses seem to stem from his arrogance at playing the same game regardless of who he plays.
                                      Novak is also experiencing some sort of disregard for less decorated opponents.
                                      Yes.
                                      It's kind of the reverse pressure he was invincible for so long but when he was snapped it made him consistently nervous.
                                      The first time I saw it was when Wawrinka took him out a few years ago in Wimbledon I believe. That was the start of his descent. Plus he has lost a hell of a lot of weight for some reason.
                                      "What goes around comes back around my baby"

                                      Comment


                                      • #79
                                        Originally posted by Rihab
                                        Idk what's wrong with Angie, but she's been playing horribly lately, there's no way she'll win anything. Same for Bouchard.
                                        Bouchard was never that good.
                                        She took advantage of a few weak draws and did well at a couple majors as a result.
                                        The tennis media then hyped her up like crazy (because lbr, she can sell the sport despite not being very good at it).

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                                        • #80
                                          I love it how Sharapova has a career grand slam
                                          Waffles are checked cookies

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                                          • #81
                                            ^Despite the doping mess, Sharapova is one of the greatest competitors tennis (and even sport) has ever seen and that more than made up for any lack of natural athletic ability.

                                            Comment


                                            • #82
                                              Originally posted by MusicLover88
                                              ^Despite the doping mess, Sharapova is one of the greatest competitors tennis (and even sport) has ever seen and that more than made up for any lack of natural athletic ability.
                                              And oh so constantly beaten by Serena.
                                              Sharapova is a pretty and marketable face of tennis, it's like if Kournikova decided to really try.
                                              Waffles are checked cookies

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                                              • #83
                                                Serena is the GOAT. Kournikova didn't even win a single tournament. Sharapova's achievements speak for themselves; the comparison is insulting tbh.

                                                Next.

                                                Comment


                                                • #84
                                                  Originally posted by MusicLover88
                                                  Serena is the GOAT. Kournikova didn't even win a single tournament. Sharapova's achievements speak for themselves; the comparison is insulting tbh.

                                                  Next.
                                                  Sharapova certainly had it easier because of her looks. If she looked like Serena or Venus, her career earnings would be drastically less.

                                                  If she wasn't a consistent doper, her 'competitive edge' wouldn't be as competitive.
                                                  "What goes around comes back around my baby"

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                                                  • #85
                                                    ^I don't think they change prize money for winning a tournament on the basis of your looks. From a commercial point of view you're right of course, she earned a lot of money because of her looks. I do think Musiclover88 was only talking about her specific achievements on the WTA tour though.

                                                    I'm not Sharapova fan at all... Like I rather dislike her (because I dislike one dimensional power tennis), but calling her a consistent doper is a bit harsh. Yeah she tooks some stuff, but let's not forget that product was legal until what? The start of the 2016 season? All sportspeople take stuff that could be labeled as doping, but they stop taking it when it becomes illegal. A broad range of products become 'doping' every year, so from a retroperspective most tennis players probably took 'doping' at some point. And she paid her dues now, so I'll give her the benefit op the doubt and see what she achieves ''''''without'''''' doping.
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                                                    • #86
                                                      Originally posted by Michiel
                                                      ^I don't think they change prize money for winning a tournament on the basis of your looks. From a commercial point of view you're right of course, she earned a lot of money because of her looks. I do think Musiclover88 was only talking about her specific achievements on the WTA tour though.

                                                      I'm not Sharapova fan at all... Like I rather dislike her (because I dislike one dimensional power tennis), but calling her a consistent doper is a bit harsh. Yeah she tooks some stuff, but let's not forget that product was legal until what? The start of the 2016 season? All sportspeople take stuff that could be labeled as doping, but they stop taking it when it becomes illegal. A broad range of products become 'doping' every year, so from a retroperspective most tennis players probably took 'doping' at some point. And she paid her dues now, so I'll give her the benefit op the doubt and see what she achieves ''''''without'''''' doping.
                                                      Yes, thank you.

                                                      I can't believe some of the crap I'm reading. I was strictly talking about Sharapova's tennis career achievements!

                                                      Comment


                                                      • #87
                                                        Originally posted by MusicLover88
                                                        Originally posted by Michiel
                                                        ^I don't think they change prize money for winning a tournament on the basis of your looks. From a commercial point of view you're right of course, she earned a lot of money because of her looks. I do think Musiclover88 was only talking about her specific achievements on the WTA tour though.

                                                        I'm not Sharapova fan at all... Like I rather dislike her (because I dislike one dimensional power tennis), but calling her a consistent doper is a bit harsh. Yeah she tooks some stuff, but let's not forget that product was legal until what? The start of the 2016 season? All sportspeople take stuff that could be labeled as doping, but they stop taking it when it becomes illegal. A broad range of products become 'doping' every year, so from a retroperspective most tennis players probably took 'doping' at some point. And she paid her dues now, so I'll give her the benefit op the doubt and see what she achieves ''''''without'''''' doping.
                                                        Yes, thank you.

                                                        I can't believe some of the crap I'm reading. I was strictly talking about Sharapova's tennis career achievements!
                                                        None of what was written was 'crap'.

                                                        You never specified that we were purely talking about earnings from WTA matches.
                                                        I believe the initial statement that got you so heated was the comparison to Kournikova which is a fair comparison albeit Kournikova was nowhere near as good.
                                                        She ushered in the age of marketing tennis players to really boost their earnings. That's all I was alluding too regarding their looks.

                                                        Yes Sharapova has achieved a hell of a lot on the court and should be commended for it.

                                                        I do think Michiel, that you are being a little short sighted.
                                                        No one disputes TUE's when athletes are injured and are actually prescribed drugs they need.
                                                        No one disputes or argues that 'Sharapova is a doper because she used a substance only banned recently'.

                                                        The real issue is that she used it for 10 years or so when there is scant documented evidence from medical professionals that she needed it.
                                                        Therefore she was gaining an unfair advantage for as long as she was taking the medication (as she has no chronic documented reason for taking it).
                                                        "What goes around comes back around my baby"

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                                                        • #88
                                                          Originally posted by aaliyahman

                                                          I do think Michiel, that you are being a little short sighted.
                                                          No one disputes TUE's when athletes are injured and are actually prescribed drugs they need.
                                                          No one disputes or argues that 'Sharapova is a doper because she used a substance only banned recently'.

                                                          The real issue is that she used it for 10 years or so when there is scant documented evidence from medical professionals that she needed it.
                                                          Therefore she was gaining an unfair advantage for as long as she was taking the medication (as she has no chronic documented reason for taking it).
                                                          I never said that what Maria (and a lot of athletes mainly from the East of Europe for that matter) wasn't wrong. I said that calling her a consistent doper was a bit harsh. Also I wasn't talking about drugs for injured athletes.

                                                          I was only pointing out the mere fact that it's not that uncommon as you might think. A lot of athletes in the past, but I'm sure there are still some drugs used now that will be labeled as doping in the near future, used drugs that are considered doping anno 2017. But 99 percent of the athletes just stop taking it when it appears on the list of illegal substances for athletes. You never hear those stories because from a legal point of view they did nothing wrong. Yet someone who takes the substance for a month longer is a consistent doper while those who just stopped using it at the end of 2015 get a free pass? This is the social reality of being an athlete. If you think players never took substances that are now considered illegal than you're the one who is short sighted (yes miss Williams included). Don't you think these athletes waved with fake doctor prescriptions to get their hands on it? If Sharapova just stopped using it at the end of 2015, like most athletes, nobody would have known or even cared. And that's what happens in 99 percent of the cases among athletes in all branches of sport.

                                                          And to conclude: What she did was wrong and she was punished for it. If you want to reintegrate a person after he or she committed a crime you can't call him or her an ex-delinquent for the rest of their lives. That's contraproductive in my opinion. And for her specific case there's the complex situation of competitive sports. It's a contextualization, not an excuse. Of course legal instruments can't work retroactive, but is someone who took some forbidden substances morally less wrong just because they dodged the legal benchmark? It's debatable because in essence they all knew it enhanced their performances in an unfairly matter.
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                                                          • #89
                                                            Originally posted by aaliyahman
                                                            Originally posted by MusicLover88
                                                            Originally posted by Michiel
                                                            ^I don't think they change prize money for winning a tournament on the basis of your looks. From a commercial point of view you're right of course, she earned a lot of money because of her looks. I do think Musiclover88 was only talking about her specific achievements on the WTA tour though.

                                                            I'm not Sharapova fan at all... Like I rather dislike her (because I dislike one dimensional power tennis), but calling her a consistent doper is a bit harsh. Yeah she tooks some stuff, but let's not forget that product was legal until what? The start of the 2016 season? All sportspeople take stuff that could be labeled as doping, but they stop taking it when it becomes illegal. A broad range of products become 'doping' every year, so from a retroperspective most tennis players probably took 'doping' at some point. And she paid her dues now, so I'll give her the benefit op the doubt and see what she achieves ''''''without'''''' doping.
                                                            Yes, thank you.

                                                            I can't believe some of the crap I'm reading. I was strictly talking about Sharapova's tennis career achievements!
                                                            None of what was written was 'crap'.

                                                            You never specified that we were purely talking about earnings from WTA matches.
                                                            Umm, I literally said Serena was the GOAT (at TENNIS) and that Kournikova had never even won a single TENNIS tournament. And then I said that comparing her achievements to Sharapova's was insulting. How was I talking about anything other than their tennis achievements?

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                                                            • #90
                                                              As was going off Heppolo and your earlier post too. Not just your last one.
                                                              "What goes around comes back around my baby"

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