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  • Originally posted by theMathematician View Post
    I still remember when Spotify got a bigger mainstream appeal how people thought that including it in the charts would result in them becoming more diverse in terms of sounds and ages when, in fact, they've become even more homogenous than before. So yeah, it's basically the same kind of concept but with a different format of consumption.
    The one thing I don’t think anyone counted on was chart companies messing with the streams-per-sale ratios as much as they have done. I really dislike the rules and think they have ruined the charts completely - we are at a point where the charts have lost all relevancy imo.

    The kids don’t care anymore about the charts but more about daily streaming charts - the top 100 on Spotify is their go to playlist because it has all the ‘current’ stuff’, yet fail to recognise that it stays so static because they keep playing the same songs in the damn same playlist.

    I’ve been visiting family over the last few months and spent a lot of time being introduced to ‘Tik Tok songs’ - the teenagers don’t care about the charts as such, but what songs they’re hearing/being introduced to on that app now.

    But I know when streaming first came along I thought it was great because there was a real chance that people of any age could - in part - influence the charts simply by listening to whatever they would listen to. I thought streaming would work in such a way that if enough were still listening to a song like Billie Jean (for example) then it would chart... whereas previously if you just listened to your same album copy from the 1980s then you weren’t being counted.

    Sadly, we know that never came to be and whilst I do blame the chart companies and their rules and algorithms, the other side of the coin is that people who don’t need to listen to the latest new music didn’t come on board - because they already own the damn songs they want to listen to

    Im constantly impressed and amazed at just how much music we all collectively listen to though. I love that we can see on Spotify that songs like Bohemian Rhapsody have had over a billion streams, or that a band like the Spice Girls can have one song with over 500 million streams almost 25 years later.

    It shows music and songs remain relevant in our daily lives long after the charts have had enough of them, and that, in my opinion, is why the charts just aren’t relevant anymore: it says more to me that people have listened to ‘Don’t Stop Believing’ over 910 million times (and continue to listen decades after its original release) than Ed Sheeran’s latest song getting him another billion streams.

    Queuing for Girls Aloud reunion tickets since 2013

    #FreeBritney

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    • It’s not that the kids don’t care about charts anymore .. they never cared, not in the 60s, or the 90s or the 00s.

      In fact, 95% of population don’t care or pay attention to charts (and never did). Only a small % of people like me (and a few others from online forums) pay attention to and follow charts.

      Back when I was growing up there wasn’t Spotify but it didn’t mean kids were checking or caring about the charts either .. what I remember is that the kids would tune MTV and jam to whatever was played in there but no one would ever have an idea which song was #1 on the Hot 100 or how many weeks a song charted or who charted higher than who in the UK charts or any of that.

      In fact, other than me and people in online forums I have never met someone else in actual person that follows, knows or care about charts. People are always clueless about that stuff in general.

      And it’s the same way today just that kids discover music through the current platforms they use (TikTok, Spotify, etc) without caring about charts. It’s always been that way.
      Last edited by MrLeonix; Fri September 25, 2020, 20:20.
      Britney Spears . Michael Jackson . Madonna . Metallica . Radiohead . Led Zeppelin . Oasis . Beyoncé . Soda Stereo

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      • Originally posted by MrLeonix View Post
        It’s not that the kids don’t care about charts anymore .. they never cared, not in the 60s, or the 90s or the 00s.

        In fact, 95% of population don’t care or pay attention to charts (and never did). Only a small % of people like me (and a few others from online forums) pay attention to and follow charts.

        Back when I was growing up there wasn’t Spotify but it didn’t mean kids were checking or caring about the charts either .. what I remember is that the kids would tune MTV and jam to whatever was played in there but no one would ever have an idea which song was #1 on the Hot 100 or how many weeks a song charted or who charted higher than who in the UK charts or any of that.

        In fact, other than me and people in online forums I have never met someone else in actual person that follows, knows or care about charts. People are always clueless about that stuff in general.

        And it’s the same way today just that kids discover music through the current platforms they use (TikTok, Spotify, etc) without caring about charts. It’s always been that way.
        How very sad for you.

        When I was growing up music was big business - I used to buy Top of The Pops and Smash Hits magazines and everything. People took notice of when the song they liked on MTV was going to be released in shops and would try to buy it the week of release (thus pushing up the chart position).

        People and the media watched as the Spice Girls racked up a record 6 consecutive #1 singles, or when two big artists would release songs the same week: everyone remembers the Sophie Ellis Bextor vs Victoria Beckham chart battles, the fights for the Christmas #1 (which used to mean something here) etc.

        20 years ago the charts were fast moving - you debuted high and would drop pretty quickly: yet sell twice as many as any song does now. Radio 1 used to play the full top 40 singles chart, whereas now it’s basically just a highlights edition. Newspapers would report on a Monday who went to #1 the day beforehand, and people would then watch Top of The Pops at the end of the week to watch the #1 act perform.

        Then we had CD:UK on a Saturday morning, where all the artists and bands could come and perform, and encourage kids to go to the shops after and buy the damn song (as Saturday was the last day of sales back then).

        Music and charts were a big part of culture. You knew who was #1 whether you wanted to or not - it was just one of those things you’d hear and pick up on. But now, there’s nothing - there’s no hype and no interest and that’s because there is no audience for such things anymore.

        Queuing for Girls Aloud reunion tickets since 2013

        #FreeBritney

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        • Originally posted by menime123 View Post

          How very sad for you.

          When I was growing up music was big business - I used to buy Top of The Pops and Smash Hits magazines and everything. People took notice of when the song they liked on MTV was going to be released in shops and would try to buy it the week of release (thus pushing up the chart position).

          People and the media watched as the Spice Girls racked up a record 6 consecutive #1 singles, or when two big artists would release songs the same week: everyone remembers the Sophie Ellis Bextor vs Victoria Beckham chart battles, the fights for the Christmas #1 (which used to mean something here) etc.

          20 years ago the charts were fast moving - you debuted high and would drop pretty quickly: yet sell twice as many as any song does now. Radio 1 used to play the full top 40 singles chart, whereas now it’s basically just a highlights edition. Newspapers would report on a Monday who went to #1 the day beforehand, and people would then watch Top of The Pops at the end of the week to watch the #1 act perform.

          Then we had CD:UK on a Saturday morning, where all the artists and bands could come and perform, and encourage kids to go to the shops after and buy the damn song (as Saturday was the last day of sales back then).

          Music and charts were a big part of culture. You knew who was #1 whether you wanted to or not - it was just one of those things you’d hear and pick up on. But now, there’s nothing - there’s no hype and no interest and that’s because there is no audience for such things anymore.
          That was your experience. Just because you bought Top of The Pops and smash hits magazines and stuff like that to see charts and who was at #1 (because you cared about that stuff) doesn’t mean everyone else was doing that exact same thing or caring about it the same way you did.

          People would consume albums and songs but not because they knew by memory who was at #1 or were memorizing chart positions .. but simply because they liked the music they discovered through radio, music channels, TV and through word of mouth.

          I personally liked all of that stuff (knowing about the charts, the numbers, the sales, the certifications, all of that stuff) but most people would be clueless about that. Obviously everyone knew and could deduce who was popular and big by common sense and without checking the charts, like in the year 2000 you didn’t need to check any chart to know Eminem was huge because you would hear about him everywhere (radio, MTV, award shows, TV, etc), so people knew who was hot and who wasn’t ... but from that to people in general actively deeply caring about “charts”? Not really.
          Britney Spears . Michael Jackson . Madonna . Metallica . Radiohead . Led Zeppelin . Oasis . Beyoncé . Soda Stereo

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          • I live for Elton John and he's one of my favourite artists of all-time but his I'm Still Standing performance from earlier this year for the One World... concert is legitimately one of the worst vocals ever.

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            • Elton was a great artist indeed. He has two huge classics that I like a lot (“Tiny Dancer” and “Your Song”).
              Britney Spears . Michael Jackson . Madonna . Metallica . Radiohead . Led Zeppelin . Oasis . Beyoncé . Soda Stereo

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              • Originally posted by MrLeonix View Post

                That was your experience. Just because you bought Top of The Pops and smash hits magazines and stuff like that to see charts and who was at #1 (because you cared about that stuff) doesn’t mean everyone else was doing that exact same thing or caring about it the same way you did.

                People would consume albums and songs but not because they knew by memory who was at #1 or were memorizing chart positions .. but simply because they liked the music they discovered through radio, music channels, TV and through word of mouth.

                I personally liked all of that stuff (knowing about the charts, the numbers, the sales, the certifications, all of that stuff) but most people would be clueless about that. Obviously everyone knew and could deduce who was popular and big by common sense and without checking the charts, like in the year 2000 you didn’t need to check any chart to know Eminem was huge because you would hear about him everywhere (radio, MTV, award shows, TV, etc), so people knew who was hot and who wasn’t ... but from that to people in general actively deeply caring about “charts”? Not really.
                Respectfully, stop trying to invalidate my original point because it doesn’t fit in with your narrative or your experience. I was raised in the UK (pretty sure you aren’t based here) and I’ve explained how charts and music were big news here as I was growing up.

                I never said people were studying charts, memorising statistics or monitoring sales like people do here (you’ll note I’m never in the chart section of this forum), but 20 years ago teenagers did follow the charts simply to follow the charts, as oppose to just dipping in when their favs had a new song out.

                Music was big business and as I said, at times fairly newsworthy: a lot of acts would go on big promotional campaigns the week before and of their single release, as increased visibility meant bigger and better chart success.

                For example, Geri Halliwell rather famously ‘dated’ Chris Evans the same week her single was released, which just happened to be released the same week as Emma Bunton’s solo debut single. 2 Spice Girls head-to-head in a chart battle - everyone knew about it and knew Geri won (she got the #1 and Emma got #2). Big news.

                So if you don’t want to believe me that is absolutely fine. But your solitary experience growing up was not my norm, and most probably not the norm for a lot of people here.


                Queuing for Girls Aloud reunion tickets since 2013

                #FreeBritney

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                • Any other users from UK here? Is it truth that EVERYONE in general would be a chart freak and know everything about charts over there? Like people knew who was at #1 and who were selling more than who all the time and following charts week by week? Were all your friends, co-workers, classmates, family members, boyfriends / girlfriends and people you met in general like that?
                  Last edited by MrLeonix; Fri September 25, 2020, 21:17.
                  Britney Spears . Michael Jackson . Madonna . Metallica . Radiohead . Led Zeppelin . Oasis . Beyoncé . Soda Stereo

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                  • Originally posted by MrLeonix View Post
                    Any other users from UK here? Is it truth that EVERYONE in general would be a chart freak and know everything about charts over there? Like people knew who was at #1 and who were selling more than who all the time and following charts well by week?
                    Not everyone, but most people definitely know generally about charts/chart facts in the UK - the weekly UK chart rundown in the UK was always a major event up until probably 10 years ago and TOTP was once an institution.

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                    • Just listen to that - what a vocal.

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                      • Originally posted by Wayne View Post

                        Not everyone, but most people definitely know generally about charts/chart facts in the UK - the weekly UK chart rundown in the UK was always a major event up until probably 10 years ago and TOTP was once an institution.
                        Thanks for the info. So if you go out with your friends or co-workers for some drinks and you talk about charts all of them would immediately know which songs were #1 and how artists charted over there?
                        Britney Spears . Michael Jackson . Madonna . Metallica . Radiohead . Led Zeppelin . Oasis . Beyoncé . Soda Stereo

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                        • Originally posted by MrLeonix View Post
                          Any other users from UK here? Is it truth that EVERYONE in general would be a chart freak and know everything about charts over there? Like people knew who was at #1 and who were selling more than who all the time and following charts week by week? Were all your friends, co-workers, classmates, family members, boyfriends / girlfriends and people you met in general like that?
                          I didn’t say that - I have repeatedly said I was talking about when I was growing up and in relation to kids and the charts. I really don’t know why conversations have to be so difficult - all I said was kids used to follow the charts and now they don’t, making them virtually irrelevant.

                          If you don’t agree, had a different experience then that’s absolutely fine. But it doesn’t make anything I said incorrect or wrong either.

                          Frankly I can’t believe you’re asking other forum users to validate a claim I’m making about the relationship between the UK teenage public and the nation charts 20 years ago when you aren’t even from the UK - simply because you can’t believe I’m correct (based on your experience growing up in a totally different country)
                          Queuing for Girls Aloud reunion tickets since 2013

                          #FreeBritney

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                          • Originally posted by menime123 View Post
                            Frankly I can’t believe you’re asking other forum users to validate a claim I’m making about the relationship between the UK teenage public and the nation charts 20 years ago when you aren’t even from the UK - simply because you can’t believe I’m correct (based on your experience growing up in a totally different country)
                            Well I found the info interesting so I have to ask other users from the UK (the more opinions the better) ... due to the fact that I’m not from the UK with more reason I can’t just go out there believing any random thing I read ... I have to verify.

                            Don’t take it personal. Wayne kinda explained it better and hopefully more users from UK could share their experiences.

                            Britney Spears . Michael Jackson . Madonna . Metallica . Radiohead . Led Zeppelin . Oasis . Beyoncé . Soda Stereo

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                            • Originally posted by MrLeonix View Post

                              Thanks for the info. So if you go out with your friends or co-workers for some drinks and you talk about charts all of them would immediately know which songs were #1 and how artists charted over there?
                              Probably not to that extent - but for e.g. I have a group of work friends (technically one of them is my boss ) who are proficient at pub quizzes and I could have exactly that conversation (and more) that you just outlined with them. Whereas with another group of friends, I can talk more broadly about charts.

                              Nobody is as passionate about charts as those on UKMIX, so we aren't a representative bunch. but historically, charts are part of British culture - from the weekly chart run down, to TOTP, to television shows hosted by musicians playing their biggest hits, music is a massive part of British culture (and knowledge of big hits and big hit albums just follows that I think).

                              It's really strange to try and articulate.

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                              • Thanks for the info Wayne. Now I have a clearer picture.
                                Britney Spears . Michael Jackson . Madonna . Metallica . Radiohead . Led Zeppelin . Oasis . Beyoncé . Soda Stereo

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                                • Maybe it's an European thing. Growing up I also knew other kids who knew a lot about the charts. Me and a class mate always cut the chart out of the newspaper and marked our favorite songs and chose our own "alarmschijf" (new song of which we thought would do great on the charts). And like the UK had TOTP, we had Countdown. Also, every record store had a sheet with chart information, which you could take for free. And like in the UK, we still have pub quizzes here about music and charts.

                                  One of the most popular radio events in our country is the Top 2000. Everyone can vote for this list. The complete list is broadcast on radio and a selection is aired on tv with lots of chart facts, interviews and memories.
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                                  • My friends don’t care about the charts at all. No one I know cares about them really. But our charts are such a trashy mess so I get why no one would care about them.
                                    Britney Spears • Janet Jackson • Christina Aguilera • Michael Jackson • Selena Gomez • Hilary Duff • Taylor Swift • Justin Timberlake

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                                    • The one thing that was popular here was the TV channels countdowns though. MTV for example would have this equivalent version of TRL for Latin America (it didn’t have that same name but it was pretty much the same thing) and it was this Top 10 they would broadcast weekly (and a Top 20 on weekends) and of course I would follow all that (I was always interested in that stuff) and I do recall other kids I met and classmates checking that stuff... however those TV channel countdowns were not related to any official chart or Billboard or any official data from one particular latin country. It was more about the channel’s own Top list and it wouldn’t be accurate because sometimes the #1 in that countdown wouldn’t necessarily be a #1 or a Top 10 on the Billboard chart. So even if people watched that show they were still clueless about the real official charts.

                                      Also, it was a fact that people did share the same excitement I had about music and many people would also wait and count the days for the album release of their favorite artists here too (those were big music events) and the dates would be repeatedly hyped up and announced on the news, the radio, the tv channels, etc so people always knew about the releases.

                                      ... But from that to say that it was usual to meet people knowing exact chart details, chart-runs, casual people knowing the chart positions and certifications of artists by heart or opening week numbers and stuff like that, not really (I have only found that level of passion regarding following charts in online forums). I’ve found out that most people (99%) I’ve known over the years are not passionate about those numbers or details.
                                      Last edited by MrLeonix; Fri September 25, 2020, 22:42.
                                      Britney Spears . Michael Jackson . Madonna . Metallica . Radiohead . Led Zeppelin . Oasis . Beyoncé . Soda Stereo

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                                      • Originally posted by menime123 View Post

                                        I didn’t say that - I have repeatedly said I was talking about when I was growing up and in relation to kids and the charts. I really don’t know why conversations have to be so difficult - all I said was kids used to follow the charts and now they don’t, making them virtually irrelevant.

                                        If you don’t agree, had a different experience then that’s absolutely fine. But it doesn’t make anything I said incorrect or wrong either.

                                        Frankly I can’t believe you’re asking other forum users to validate a claim I’m making about the relationship between the UK teenage public and the nation charts 20 years ago when you aren’t even from the UK - simply because you can’t believe I’m correct (based on your experience growing up in a totally different country)
                                        It was pretty clear what you were saying, and I agree totally.

                                        Comment


                                        • The Christmas No. 1 singles used to be a big thing in the UK, didn't they?

                                          Regarding Germany: Charts have never been a huge priority in most people's lives, I guess. Some studied them to check out which new stuff is out there, but that's it already. It's indeed more of a thing for the few people who are passionate about it. The thing is that years ago, you could look what's high on the charts and any random person on the street would have any associations with it. The last 4 No. 1 singles in Germany have been 'Frühstück in Paris' by Capital Bra feat. Cro, 'Unterwegs' by KitschKrieg feat. Jamule, '****st mich nur ab' by Bonez MC and 'Mood' by 24kGoldn feat. Iann Dior. I'd bet a 100€ that those songs are basically unknown to the mainstream - I never even heard the latter one's name before. Are those really the most popular songs of all Germans at the moment?
                                          Last edited by theMathematician; Sat September 26, 2020, 01:06.
                                          Is it offensive to fall in love with you and everything you do
                                          and everything you stand for?
                                          Could I break through your invisible wall, could I hide my pride for once,
                                          just to tell you that I see more?

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                                          • Originally posted by theMathematician View Post
                                            Regarding Germany: Charts have never been a huge priority in most people's lives, I guess.
                                            Interesting to know. I guess it was (and is) like this in many places (except for the UK)

                                            I’ve lived in 3 different countries and in none of them I’ve met people (outside of online forums) that are passionate about sales and chart positions. People actually mock that kind of stuff.

                                            In fact, I got into forums because I wanted to find people to discuss about this stuff because it was nearly impossible to do so in “real life”. People I’ve met in person are always clueless and in fact some I’ve met would think (assume) that “Thriller” (song) or “Bad Romance” were #1 Billboard Hit songs just because they were popular, they know nothing (and it’s ok if they don’t know it since I understand many people are not interested in such stuff).
                                            Britney Spears . Michael Jackson . Madonna . Metallica . Radiohead . Led Zeppelin . Oasis . Beyoncé . Soda Stereo

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                                            • I guess people come to online forums to hate on artists also, as it would be weird to do that in real life I guess

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                                              • Actually I’ve met plenty of extreme music snobs in real life.
                                                Britney Spears . Michael Jackson . Madonna . Metallica . Radiohead . Led Zeppelin . Oasis . Beyoncé . Soda Stereo

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                                                • Originally posted by InFamous View Post
                                                  I guess people come to online forums to hate on artists also, as it would be weird to do that in real life I guess
                                                  Yeah I don’t really hate any artist.

                                                  But I get what you mean, I’ve seen some psycho Mariah Carey haters in this forum and it’s like wow.
                                                  Britney Spears . Michael Jackson . Madonna . Metallica . Radiohead . Led Zeppelin . Oasis . Beyoncé . Soda Stereo

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                                                  • Personally I think twitter as a company need to step in and stop the ridiculous "stan twitter" culture that has manifested there in the last five to ten years.
                                                    It is completely ridiculous the battles that go on between stan bases over there. The absolute rubbish people write. Like, who has the time to engage with that.

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