Coronavirus outbreak

[aRat]

They have mentioned something like up to 1 year... But who knows. At least a few months. It should be like the normal immunity you get after contracting covid.

So we have to be vaccinated every couple months? A nightmare.

I am still thinking that they should only vaccinate the old and vulnerable and let us young and snatchedT people be.

[SholasBoy]

So we have to be vaccinated every couple months? A nightmare.

I am still thinking that they should only vaccinate the old and vulnerable and let us young and snatchedT people be.

I agree. I'm not opposed to taking the vaccine, I mean i'll have it, but I don't think that life needs to be on hold until we've had it. Today Boris says that life may begin to look "something" like normal by Easter (whatever that means), do they keep pushing it back to each Christian holiday in hope for the return of Jesus?

[menime123]

I think we really need to go back into logical thinking rather than hysterical one. The "I know somebody who died" argument is not a scientific way to view things, because the cold numbers tell another story

That's the case fatality rate though and not the mortality rate, meaning it misses many asymptomatic infections thus is artificially high. The mortality rate can only be an educated estimate and it has been accepted to be 0.6% back in August

Oh come now menime.

Oh come now jio.

You can’t have it both ways. You can’t ask people to stick to facts and figures then contradict facts and figures using an ‘educated estimate’.

The figures are clear - out of all confirmed cases, globally 2.34% people have died. It is what it is no matter how you look at it. Even if you try to use your best educated estimate, 1,439,784 people have died. How can you ask for logical thinking to be applied by people when you try to undermine the impact of a confirmed figure simply because it doesn’t fit in with your narrative?

Even if it is 0.6%, how can you defend catching and transmitting a disease that has already killed so many people?

If we apply logical thinking then it makes zero sense not to have the virus. Logically speaking, the chances of a vaccine failing once and approved and having long term, unexpected side effects is minimal.

Even the 1976 Swine Flu vaccine had a very small number of people with side effects. Many people had the vaccine without any, including President Ford (on camera). 25% of the USA were vaccinated - approximately 40 million with roughly 30 deaths... which of course is much less than your acceptable 0.6% for COVID!

All of the arguments you are providing are simply excuses to hide behind. There is no logical, scientific reason not to have an approved vaccine in 2020.

Your fears and hesitation are based on emotion and it is okay to feel that. I don’t take medicine if I can help it - I don’t even like painkillers and will muddle through until I can’t.

But a vaccine is different. It is the only creditable way of eradicating COVID and if enough people get it, we can suppress the virus potentially out of existence. This needs to happen now - not five years in the future when it has mutated and newer vaccines are needed to treat the mutation. It will be a vicious cycle and one we must avoid.

So it is incredibly important not to listen to your fears and hesitations but to logical thinking rather than hysterical one. There is no scientific reason not to have the COVID-19 vaccine and refusing it allows the vaccine to survive, thrive and kill - and I stand firm in my belief that anyone refusing to take direct action to combat COVID is responsible for the deaths that occur after the vaccination has been offered to them.

The science says the vaccinations are safe. The safety procedures have been followed, all required testing has been done. Once approved, they are safe.

[menime123]

Do we even know how long the protection of these vaccines lasts?

If everyone had it and the virus is eradicated, you’ll never need it again. If people don’t have it and we let the virus continue to spread and potentially mutate, you’ll need the vaccine multiple times as new vaccines will be needed to treat (potentially) nee strains of COVID-19.

So it’s best to have it and get rid of it all together and put this whole sorry mess behind us.

[jio]

Menime I did not question you 1.5 million figure, I just corrected your 2.3% figure. There is nothing scientific into presenting a case fatality rate as the mortality rate and it is very scientific to present educated guesses, especially when coming from WHO or other official bodies.

Other than that the 1976 incident was not a disaster because of the high number of deaths but because of the high number of Gullain Barre syndrome. Those people did not die but they suffered tremendously and that was not acceptable without a good reason then and it is not now.

Other than that, your mention of president Ford taking the vaccine is not relevant, apparently Putin's daughter also took their space vaccine, does that mean something? No it doesn't.

I get your arguments but I do not agree at all. Also I do not agree that this virus can be eliminated completely in a short amount of time, it cannot.We will just have to be vaccinated every now and then and in the end of the day, when people come to their senses they will even stop the vaccinations for young and healthy people and limit them to people of an age and up and special groups.

[menime123]

... when people come to their senses they will even stop the vaccinations for young and healthy people and limit them to people of an age and up and special groups.

So you’re waiting for medical science to come to it’s senses and limit a life saving vaccination that will suppress a global pandemic and push us massively down the path towards normality?

I think this says it all really.

You are welcome to your throne of paranoia and deceit. I’ll just stand over here, 2 metres away, and await my vaccination like a responsible human being.

[jio]

So you’re waiting for medical science to come to it’s senses and limit a life saving vaccination that will suppress a global pandemic and push us massively down the path towards normality?

I think this says it all really.

You are welcome to your throne of paranoia and deceit. I’ll just stand over here, 2 metres away, and await my vaccination like a responsible human being.

Man we were having such a nice conversation, why you have to go and bring the level down with personal attacks, really you can do better, you proved it in the last few pages...

[menime123]

Man we were having such a nice conversation, why you have to go and bring the level down with personal attacks, really you can do better, you proved it in the last few pages...

There is nothing nice about reading about people actively wanting to actively avoid a COVID vaccine. I’ve said repeatedly I believe your position to be wrong and based on emotion and illogical reasoning, that I judge everyone refusing to have a vaccine (that they are eligible to receive) and that inaction contributes direct to unnecessary deaths.

Saying you can sit on a throne of paranoia and deceit isn’t a personal attack - it’s simply a summation of everything I’ve already said with an air of finality to this retched discussion.

[jio]

There is nothing nice about reading about people actively wanting to actively avoid a COVID vaccine. I’ve said repeatedly I believe your position to be wrong and based on emotion and illogical reasoning, that I judge everyone refusing to have a vaccine (that they are eligible to receive) and that inaction contributes direct to unnecessary deaths.

Saying you can sit on a throne of paranoia and deceit isn’t a personal attack - it’s simply a summation of everything I’ve already said with an air of finality to this retched discussion.

Well, for what is worth paranoia is not something that can be proven or disproven but deceit is and in terms of all the data presented by both of us, the only deceitful one was your presentation of the case fatality rate as the mortality rate. Other than that, I have no more comments

[InFamous]

The head of the Moderna vaccine came out and said that even when the vaccine begins to be rolled out, social distance measures and all that will still have to be followed. He said something like that there was no proof that you having been vaccinated stops you passing the virus on to an unvaccinated person.

[theMathematician]

The head of the Moderna vaccine came out and said that even when the vaccine begins to be rolled out, social distance measures and all that will still have to be followed. He said something like that there was no proof that you having been vaccinated stops you passing the virus on to an unvaccinated person.

Wouldn't that be like the point of getting vaccinated though?

[InFamous]

Wouldn't that be like the point of getting vaccinated though?

No. If you get a vaccine it protects you. He specifically said that the trials did not prove conclusively that you could not pass it on to an unvaccinated person. Although they could deduce that it should help.

[menime123]

The head of the Moderna vaccine came out and said that even when the vaccine begins to be rolled out, social distance measures and all that will still have to be followed. He said something like that there was no proof that you having been vaccinated stops you passing the virus on to an unvaccinated person.

Lets quote him:

“Do I believe that it reduces transmission? Absolutely yes, and I say this because of the science,” he added. “But absent proof, I think it’s important that we don’t change behaviors solely on the basis of vaccination.”

The proof won’t come until later, but he trusts the product. He’s just saying it’s not a miracle cure and getting the vaccine doesn’t mean we should stop with safety measures until the rate of infection has dropped.

[spiritboy]

Thankfully, most of major airlines will BAN people who refuse to have the vaccination from travelling on their planes. Qantas is the first major airline that said they will not allow passengers refuse to take the vaccine. So anti-vaxers can take a seat and spread the virus in their home countries.

[theMathematician]

Thankfully, most of major airlines will BAN people who refuse to have the vaccination from travelling on their planes. Qantas is the first major airline that said they will not allow passengers refuse to take the vaccine. So anti-vaxers can take a seat and spread the virus in their home countries.

Isn't that discriminating because of your political orientation or something? I'm sure there's a part in our basic law (@InFamous: I mean our Grundgesetz in case that debate starts again.) that could be interpreted that way.

[InFamous]

Lets quote him:



The proof won’t come until later, but he trusts the product. He’s just saying it’s not a miracle cure and getting the vaccine doesn’t mean we should stop with safety measures until the rate of infection has dropped.

OMG where is that video ? I've been looking for it for the last 40 mins. And yes I know what he is saying. I have been saying something similar for a while, that even in the presence of the vaccine, things will not go back to normal overnight. IT will take time.

[InFamous]

Isn't that discriminating because of your political orientation or something? I'm sure there's a part in our basic law (@InFamous: I mean our Grundgesetz in case that debate starts again.) that could be interpreted that way.

Refusing to take a vaccine has nothing to do with your political orientation.

[jio]

Thankfully, most of major airlines will BAN people who refuse to have the vaccination from travelling on their planes. Qantas is the first major airline that said they will not allow passengers refuse to take the vaccine. So anti-vaxers can take a seat and spread the virus in their home countries.

Are you sure that proof of vaccination is preferable to proof of immunity?

[DnBLover]

Lol being vaccinated is NOT a political orientation, it is about having a brain (obviously metaphor but not being ignorant/sociopathic). It is already mandatory to have several vaccines to be able to live in society, and particularly go to school. This is not going to be different.

Are you sure that proof of vaccination is preferable to proof of immunity?

It might be equivalent I would say. If you do the antibodies test it is probably enough if you do have the proof of immunity.

But I believe that rapid testing becoming widespread and easily available + vaccination will be very effective in containing covid. And the vulnerable people might have to be vaccinated forever.

[spiritboy]

Isn't that discriminating because of your political orientation or something? I'm sure there's a part in our basic law (@InFamous: I mean our Grundgesetz in case that debate starts again.) that could be interpreted that way.

Nope, it you put other people's lives in danger, it's not discriminating.

[theMathematician]

@spiritboy: That sounds like an unknown person automatically is 'put[itting] other people's lives in danger', which is not the case. It would be the case if people knew that they are ill and still get into close contact with others. The human race has always put freedom and social contacts first, which means that you have to live with the risk of getting ill. In fact, in my culture, we say that it's important for children to get used to bacteria early on to build up an immune system because the children who grow up in 'clean and safe' environments tend to get ill and develop allergies easily.

[aRat]

The head of the Moderna vaccine came out and said that even when the vaccine begins to be rolled out, social distance measures and all that will still have to be followed. He said something like that there was no proof that you having been vaccinated stops you passing the virus on to an unvaccinated person.

Does this mean that I can't go to overcrowded, sweaty night clubs right away?

[InFamous]

Does this mean that I can't go to overcrowded, sweaty night clubs right away?

I think you should worry about being allowed to go to a pub in Alemania first, before you think about nightclubs being reopened God knows when the saunas and sex clubs will be allowed to open

[aRat]

I think you should worry about being allowed to go to a pub in Alemania first, before you think about nightclubs being reopened God knows when the saunas and sex clubs will be allowed to open

I don't curr about those. I just want the "normal" ghey clubs to open so I can go drink and dance while nothing but popstitute excellence blasts in the background through the night.

[InFamous]

@spiritboy: That sounds like an unknown person automatically is 'put[itting] other people's lives in danger', which is not the case. It would be the case if people knew that they are ill and still get into close contact with others. The human race has always put freedom and social contacts first, which means that you have to live with the risk of getting ill. In fact, in my culture, we say that it's important for children to get used to bacteria early on to build up an immune system because the children who grow up in 'clean and safe' environments tend to get ill and develop allergies easily.

Again you are misinformed - you can have the virus and transmit it to others without knowing you have it. This was reported by the WHO back in MARCH. These people are referred to as asymptomatic carriers.
Secondly, A pandemic causing virus is not in any way, shape, means of form comparable to "bacteria". You are drawing a false equivalency as one has nothing to do with the other.
You keep referring to your " freedom" yet the country in which you live has recently announced lockdown measures to be extended until the middle of January. Clearly they don't agree with you and have emphasized the safety and well being of the German people over "freedom or social contacts"