Coronavirus outbreak

[menime123]

Because I don't want to. My body, my choice. I really don't understand why you guys are having such a hard time accepting that.

When will you realise Covid is bigger than any single individual? The choice you make impacts the world and the people around you. Not to today, but potentially forever if Covid mutates and finds a away to survive - do you really think it’s fair that your choices contribute to changing the world irrevocably?

Inaction takes the choice away from other people. Are you really so selfish that you genuinely believe people who don’t want Covid should stay at home and avoid it? Why is your choice more important than the health of others?

Anyone who doesn’t want the vaccine should be legally required to stay at home. At least this way you wouldn’t be spreading it. But I guess you don’t want that, right? But why should you be allowed into society to spread the virus?

[menime123]

Are you for real? All scientists never speak the same voice.
Inhaling smoke from other people's cigarettes is not always a choice.

I can walk away to avoid passive smoking. I can’t walk away from Covid, as it lives invisibility on surfaces for days after the host has moved on. Cardboard, for example.

I think you’ll find all scientists do speak with one voice on issues like whether the earth is flat or round.

[theMathematician]

I also don't like the idea of society or even law to tell me what to do with my body and what not.
Besides, it is true that Covid traces got found on surfaces, but it's highly unlikely to get infected through touching them as is scientifically proven. It is a virus that spreads through aerosoles and even then, you need to be in close contact with a person for at least a couple of minutes to get infected. You can heavily reduce the risk to get infected by staying distant to strangers, but of course, there's a risk that you may get infected through your loved ones as no one's staying far from their immediate family for a year.

[InFamous]

Because I don't want to. My body, my choice. I really don't understand why you guys are having such a hard time accepting that. You know I like you and respect your opinions DnBLover and InFamous, but I'm starting to feel low-key harassed here.

I'm not saying that I'm definitely never taking the vaccine. But as of November 2020, I'm just not 100% convinced that this thing that's never been done before is safe. Maybe I'll change my mind in 6 months, maybe I'll change it in 6 years. Maybe I'll opt for a non-mRNA vaccine instead, maybe I won't. But if I do, it'll be because I decided that it's safe enough for me, not because that's what the most corrupt American government in history said. Not because an irrelevant Australian airline refused to take my coin. And certainly not because two guys on an online forum tried to portray me as an anti-science crazy person. I'm not the crazy person here, I'm the cautious person. Y'all are free to do to your bodies whatever you want tho (as are old people btw), I'm not judging. Peace. <3

Me harassing you please! I said one thing and I've been asleep all evening since. I don't really care if you take the vaccine or not sweety. Make your own choice. I simply pointed out your eagerness to have everyone vulnerable or old injected with something you are suspicious of yourself, by your own admission. Claiming that I tried to portray you as an anti science person cos of that one singular comment is such an exaggeration, you've been going back and forth with dnblover and menime. I've literally been asleep all evening.
.

[menime123]

I also don't like the idea of society or even law to tell me what to do with my body and what not.

In principle I agree. However - both society and law already told you what to do with your body and you e already complied.

The law mandates that you must receive an education based on a government approved syllabus.

Here in the UK if you aren’t homeschooled, you must be enrolled in a school - and if you do not physically attend, your parents are fined or taken to court and prosecuted, up to and including prison.

At school we wear uniforms and if you break the rules you are disciplined - it is not a choice. Schools also have rules about your appearance - hair colourings are generally forbidden and you are disciplined if you get them. Schools are even allowed to police what you eat for lunch and can confiscate food that they do not approve of.

Obviously this is different to choosing to a vaccine or not, but the principle is the same - up until the age of 18, the government legally requires you to go somewhere you do not want to go and threatens your parents with imprisonment if you do not.

Then the place that you are legally forced to go then has control over how you dress, how you look, and what you eat, whilst delivering government approved knowledge.

So you’ve already spend years being told what to do by the government with your body, from your physical location, your physical appearance and most importantly, your very mind.

Would a mandatory vaccination then be a massive breach of your rights to chose what to do with your body? Let’s not forget that right is taken away in other ways too - abortion for example, remains illegal in many places.

You can heavily reduce the risk to get infected by staying distant to strangers

Not all strangers stay away because not everyone believes COVID is anything to worry about, and therein lies the entire problem.

[Rihab]

When will you realise Covid is bigger than any single individual? The choice you make impacts the world and the people around you. Not to today, but potentially forever if Covid mutates and finds a away to survive - do you really think it’s fair that your choices contribute to changing the world irrevocably?

Inaction takes the choice away from other people. Are you really so selfish that you genuinely believe people who don’t want Covid should stay at home and avoid it? Why is your choice more important than the health of others?

Anyone who doesn’t want the vaccine should be legally required to stay at home. At least this way you wouldn’t be spreading it. But I guess you don’t want that, right? But why should you be allowed into society to spread the virus?

Seems like we've arrived at the kindergarten level of having an argument where we wildly point fingers at everyone whose life choices we disagree with and blame them for spreading covid, so:

I'd like to once again point out that it was carnivores who got us in this situation in the first place. If y'all weren't so keen on keeping animals in terrible conditions to consume their corpses for as little $, € or £ as possible, this pandemic (+ the last 3 iirc) would have never gotten started. So how do you feel about your diet choice killing 1.5 Million people and ruining hundreds of Millions of lives, meat eaters? How do you feel about that chicken you ate today possibly giving us the next, even more deadly pandemic? Imo y'all should all have to stay home, so the next time one of you eats a body part contaminated with a deadly disease, you don't spread it all around the world.

See how childish this way of arguing is?

[InFamous]

Why do you think they don't ban smoking? There's a big industry behind it and the state can generate lots of tax income through them ;) .

Don't you work in the hospitality industry serving alcohol ? Are you calling for alcohol to be banned, seeing as it causes so many health and societal problems also ? Neither alcohol, nor smoking, nor getting hit by a car, nor aids, nor anything else you want to come up with has any single correlation to COVID.

[theMathematician]

Don't you work in the hospitality industry serving alcohol ? Are you calling for alcohol to be banned, seeing as it causes so many health and societal problems also ? Neither alcohol, nor smoking, nor getting hit by a car, nor aids, nor anything else you want to come up with has any single correlation to COVID.

I never recommended banning smoking - it should be up to the adult individual whether to smoke or not. I never said otherwise.

[InFamous]

Seems like we've arrived at the kindergarten level of having an argument where we wildly point fingers at everyone whose life choices we disagree with and blame them for spreading covid, so:

I'd like to once again point out that it was carnivores who got us in this situation in the first place. If y'all weren't so keen on keeping animals in terrible conditions to consume their corpses for as little $, € or £ as possible, this pandemic (+ the last 3 iirc) would have never gotten started. So how do you feel about your diet choice killing 1.5 Million people and ruining hundreds of Millions of lives, meat eaters? How do you feel about that chicken you ate today possibly giving us the next, even more deadly pandemic? Imo y'all should all have to stay home, so the next time one of you eats a body part contaminated with a deadly disease, you don't spread it all around the world.

See how childish this way of arguing is?

Trying to equate someone who eats some chicken at home to someone who goes to a market to eat a live bat is really ridiculous to be frank. Also hasn't there been loads of suspicion regarding soy and those processed proteins that come in squares and rectangles. Dunno if you eat those but i mean come on, do you really know what's going into your body when you cook up something with that stuff ?

[Rihab]

As I see it, we all have 3 options:

a) stay home
b) get vaccinated
c) risk getting the virus

If you don't like option c, go for option a or b. But I fully expect governments to semi-officially endorse option c for non-risk groups sooner or later. Feel free to bookmark.

[InFamous]

As I see it, we all have 3 options:

a) stay home
b) get vaccinated
c) risk getting the virus

If you don't like option c, go for option a or b. But I fully expect governments to semi-officially endorse option c for non-risk groups sooner or later. Feel free to bookmark.

Ok I have one last question and then I am moving on.

So how come you have no qualms about the possible long term effects that the pretty much unknown corona virus may have on your body, particularly on your lungs and breathing ? You are totally prepared to gamble with those side effects ? That is the one thing that I would be most concerned about. I don't want to risk my lungs or respiratory system in any way. As a top I need high levels of stamina.

[theMathematician]

As I see it, we all have 3 options:

a) stay home
b) get vaccinated
c) risk getting the virus

If you don't like option c, go for option a or b. But I fully expect governments to semi-officially endorse option c for non-risk groups sooner or later. Feel free to bookmark.

On point.

[menime123]

Seems like we've arrived at the kindergarten level of having an argument where we wildly point fingers at everyone whose life choices we disagree with and blame them for spreading covid, so:

I'd like to once again point out that it was carnivores who got us in this situation in the first place. If y'all weren't so keen on keeping animals in terrible conditions to consume their corpses for as little $, € or £ as possible, this pandemic (+ the last 3 iirc) would have never gotten started. So how do you feel about your diet choice killing 1.5 Million people and ruining hundreds of Millions of lives, meat eaters? How do you feel about that chicken you ate today possibly giving us the next, even more deadly pandemic? Imo y'all should all have to stay home, so the next time one of you eats a body part contaminated with a deadly disease, you don't spread it all around the world.

See how childish this way of arguing is?

Someone didn’t like having the tables turned on their head

If you really want to go down the meat eating road, the reason the homo species developed into us is because of eating cooked meat - it aided the development of our ancestors dramatically and we wouldn’t exist without it.

Also I condemn people who eat bats just as much as I do those who won’t have the vaccine. That picture on page one is the stuff of nightmares and I’d rather go vegan than even be in the same room as that. It’s on the same level of horror as that time I saw Angelina Jolie eating tarantula legs on a BBQ with her kids. Even thinking about that has just given me chills.

Also just to add - I buy most of my meat and produce directly from British farmers as far as it’s reasonably possible to do so. 2020 has been a nightmare in that respect.

But I raised legitimate questions - why should unvaccinated people be allowed into society? Why should the people who don’t want COVID be the ones who must hide away?

We must all surely be able to agree that not having the vaccine shows down the resolution of this COVID mess - whatever your reasons, it stops us moving forward.

So on that basis, why shouldn’t those who don’t want the vaccine have restrictions placed upon them? You either have your vaccine and go about your happy life, or you don’t (which is perfectly your choice), but you accept that you won’t have the same freedom you had 12 months ago until you do.

Sounds fair to me and you get to say no to the vaccine you oppose.

[DnBLover]

Your liberty stops when it interferes with others' liberties. That's it. If you cause someone's death because you don't give a f*ck, it is still your fault in the end. As a social species we need to be aware of how our individual actions have large scale repercussions than can endanger the whole system. If you drink and drive, you are not only at an increased risk of killing yourself, but killing others too. It's the same thing. The lack of empathy is really saddening to see.

Governments are meant to serve and protect people. Health and safety should always be the top priority.

Regarding the carnivore argument, it is naive to think that everyone in the world can have a vegan diet, or that people eat rats and bats out of personal preference and comfort. That is a whole new discussion but putting the blame on "carnivores"... Apparently it works to clear your conscience.

Anyway, I don't think anyone here is getting vaccinated that soon, but let's see.

[InFamous]

On point.

Yet the country in which you both live is basically forcing you to stay at home as much as possible because everything remains closed and will do until mid January at the earliest so basically the choices have been highly limited by those who are in actual control of the country.

[theMathematician]

Yet the country in which you both live is basically forcing you to stay at home as much as possible because everything remains closed and will do until mid January at the earliest so basically the choices have been highly limited by those who are in actual control of the country. OOPS!

Did either me, Rihab or aRat consider this a good decision by the state at any point?

[menime123]

Your liberty stops when it interferes with others' liberties.

It’s as basic as this. Getting the vaccine doesn’t impact anyone but me. Not getting it has implications for everyone, including you.

Anyway, I don't think anyone here is getting vaccinated that soon, but let's see.

End of January apparently, at least here in the UK. But the government loves a moving target!

[InFamous]

Did either me, Rihab or aRat consider this a good decision by the state at any point?

It's irrelevant whether or not you consider it a good decision. That's the current reality in Alemania.

[spiritboy]

People should have the liberty of not having the vaccine, but they shouldn't be allowed in public places, they should be banned from traveling, bars, clubs, gyms, where they could spread the virus. No one has the right to put other lives in danger so if they choose not to be vaccinated, their lives should be like that until we eradicate the virus.

Also, just because you are in your 20s doesn't mean you won't die from covid. It effects your heart, lungs and even your brain. Even if you had it lightly, you can't know what kind of harm it will leave in your body. Longterm effects of this virus are more worrisome than effects of the vaccine.

[theMathematician]

You sound dramatic again, spiritboy .

[Thriller]

I read earlier that a recent survey showed as little as 50% of NHS workers would want the vaccine at the moment - the main concern being potential side effects that seem as yet unknown.

Good news is the R number is below 1 for the first time since mid-August in England.

Rita Ora's in trouble for throwing a 30th birthday party in a London restaurant with 30 of her family and friends - quite a few celebs seem to think they're above the lockdown laws, I noticed on Instagram in the first lockdown some of them were just showing themselves at parties on their stories.

[InFamous]

^ The restaurant were equally to blame for taking the booking tbh. Certain people always think they are above rules. And that's when it gets messy cos people see certain places and celebs breaking rules and think well if they can do what they want why can't I.

Edit - She has just issued an apology claiming to be "deeply sorry" Sure Rita, sorry you got caught

4 weeks left in 2020. The spike we are going to see in January after the Christmas festivities is going to be bad, unless we just have serious luck and people are somewhat sensible.

[spiritboy]

Read this if you wanna know what happened to a 23 year old person when he contracted covid-19. To say that this is like a flu is ignorance at best and you guys have no difference than Republicans who claim this virus is a hoax. It isn't. Even if you don't have a previous illness, you can be intubated or even die because of the complications it causes. So no, it's not dramatic when i say people who refuse vaccinations should be banned from public life until the virus is eradicated. If they break the rule, i'd say people and governments should be able to sue or/and punish them with involuntary manslaughter.

[InFamous]

People who think I'm young and above this virus need to watch this - the long term effects are a real thing.
And these effects are showing in fit, healthy people.
These people range from 20 to 40, who had not needed to be hospitalized when they had COVID.

[InFamous]

Read this if you wanna know what happened to a 23 year old person when he contracted covid-19. To say that this is like a flu is ignorance at best and you guys have no difference than Republicans who claim this virus is a hoax. It isn't. Even if you don't have a previous illness, you can be intubated or even die because of the complications it causes. So no, it's not dramatic when i say people who refuse vaccinations should be banned from public life until the virus is eradicated. If they break the rule, i'd say people and governments should be able to sue or/and punish them with involuntary manslaughter.

Unfortunately people exist in their own bubble these days. For many it will take someone in their immediate families or a close friend to die for them to wake up and realize how serious this is. Personally I am at a point where I am done and no longer bothered to discuss anything with people who think it's just a flu or deny its seriousness.