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  • 14 out of 16 German states are below the incidence of 100 now. Let's hope the other 2 will join by the end of the week .
    Pro: freedom of speech
    Contra: cancel culture

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    • Originally posted by jio View Post

      Well since vaccinated people also spread, I am suggesting any coughing vaccinated person to be locked in as well... he poses a danger to the NHS
      Now you are just being blatantly ridiculos to try and be contrarion or "edgy".

      It has been shown without doubt that the vaccine reduces the chance greatly of serious illness or the need for hospitalization. Therefore even if vaccinated people get covid they can fight it at home and therefore will not need to be hospitalized or put on ICUs.
      Zero tolerance for : bigotry, racism, wilful ignorance.
      Pronouns: He / Him

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      • Originally posted by InFamous View Post

        Now you are just being blatantly ridiculos to try and be contrarion or "edgy".

        It has been shown without doubt that the vaccine reduces the chance greatly of serious illness or the need for hospitalization. Therefore even if vaccinated people get covid they can fight it at home and therefore will not need to be hospitalized or put on ICUs.
        Hmmm... and I repeat, don't you see the obvious fault in your train of thought that ends up calling for protection of the NSH from the unvaccinated?
        jio CHARTS NOW: 3/8/2021: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...9#post10680609

        Comment


        • Originally posted by jio View Post

          Hmmm... and I repeat, don't you see the obvious fault in your train of thought that ends up calling for protection of the NSH from the unvaccinated?
          No my train of thought is flawless. Now I am off for a walk. Bye.
          Zero tolerance for : bigotry, racism, wilful ignorance.
          Pronouns: He / Him

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          • Originally posted by InFamous View Post

            No my train of thought is flawless. Now I am off for a walk. Bye.
            Of course you could have asked for an explanation, gone for a walk without announcing it and then answer whatever whenever you got back, today tomorrow, whenever. Instead you chose to announce it, thus showing no interest in anything which could challenge your point of view and abandoning your opponent (i.e. me). Well, that's a great tactic for scoring points on the most superficial level but it is also a way to refuse engaging in any type of dialogue that might not go as you expect. Which is exactly the problem of today: we prefer to speak to people who agree with us from before and refuse to engage with people that we know they disagree... and thus we remain with our predetermined opinions, regardless of whether they are correct or not.
            jio CHARTS NOW: 3/8/2021: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...9#post10680609

            Comment


            • Originally posted by jio View Post

              Of course you could have asked for an explanation, gone for a walk without announcing it and then answer whatever whenever you got back, today tomorrow, whenever. Instead you chose to announce it, thus showing no interest in anything which could challenge your point of view and abandoning your opponent (i.e. me). Well, that's a great tactic for scoring points on the most superficial level but it is also a way to refuse engaging in any type of dialogue that might not go as you expect. Which is exactly the problem of today: we prefer to speak to people who agree with us from before and refuse to engage with people that we know they disagree... and thus we remain with our predetermined opinions, regardless of whether they are correct or not.
              Pffff do you think we are battling for the UK mix debate championship or something ?

              I couldn't care less about "scoring points". You definitely do though.

              I don't need you to explain anything to me.
              Zero tolerance for : bigotry, racism, wilful ignorance.
              Pronouns: He / Him

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              • Originally posted by InFamous View Post

                Pffff do you think we are battling for the UK mix debate championship or something ?

                I couldn't care less about "scoring points". You definitely do though.

                I don't need you to explain anything to me.
                You are still wasting valuable space with easy punch lines...
                jio CHARTS NOW: 3/8/2021: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...9#post10680609

                Comment


                • Originally posted by jio View Post

                  Then perhaps you should go back to the basics of western society, personal liberties, states of emergency and the illegality of preventive detention and collective punishment as well as proportionality of actions.

                  I am truly shocked at how easily people from the most advanced parts of the world are so ignorant of these.
                  Damn condescension and arrogance much.

                  There are mandatory vaccines in the western world already. Several.
                  I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
                  I'm in the shadows in the corners of my room

                  Comment


                  • Not having the vaccine is a personal choice, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t selfish to refuse life saving treatment. ‘Me first’ doesn’t work when everyone else is working for ‘the greater good’.

                    I will never understand the logic behind not having the vaccine - being cautious is one thing, but where is the logic in being cautious if that caution is the very thing that ends up getting you killed?

                    Boris will not authorise another lockdown. As long as the vaccines hold up against all new variants, he just won’t do it. I can see that ruthlessness in him, and I’m on the fence as to whether it’s a good thing or not.

                    Even if the NHS is overrun next winter, if the data shows its unvaccinated people needing assistance, I honestly don’t think he’ll authorise a lockdown.

                    Never forget at the very start of all this he told Britain that he wanted covid to spread through the population and for us to build up our own immunity to it, even though countries were already locked down and struggling to provide medical assistance. He wanted us to catch it - so next winter, those who opted not to have the vaccine might just end up living that scenario out.
                    “I shouldn’t be in a conservatorship if I can work and provide money and work for myself and pay other people — it makes no sense”

                    #FreeBritney

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by theMathematician View Post

                      Imo, everyone should be allowed to get sick without having to apologize or justify in front of others. So yes, if people decide not to get vaccinated and therefore risk getting infected, it's their right to do so. Everyone else can use all the existing methods to protect themselves.
                      No, they should not. We live in a society. If you have gone rogue, decided that only the things that suit you are true and the rest is not, you should get punished by it. If you get covid, after purposefully doing the best you could to make sure it kept going on, you should pay the consequences. Whatever they are, they need to exist.

                      There are still many people dying. Check Brazil, where children deaths have skyrocketed due to covid and no one knows why. Their president touted many things, including that covid was fake, and after confronted with overwhelming evidence he just said "well everyone is gonna die it's not like we can do anything about it". And then people died, and still die. And families hurt. And the economy suffers.

                      Timmy, you seem to have not understood that covid is much more than just covid. It is disgusting that you say things like "we will see if trying to protect the elderly was worth it in a few years". You don't understand that people did die because hospitals were full of sick people. Because nurses and doctors were drained and exhausted. Because people were afraid of going to hospitals etc. War protocols of prioritizing patients for treatment was activated in Western European countries. You are ignorant and choose to be ignorant. You not wanting to take this vaccine is nothing more that pure selfishness because you perceive that you have no gain for yourself. Considering the lack of empathy you have shown here, this is not at all surprising. But the fact that you keep going on about it and defending the people which are prolonging the crisis, the deaths, the lockdown, etc is tiresome.

                      You have to pay for your decisions. And if those decisions endanger the collective well-being, expect to pay the consequences. You can always live by yourself in the middle of nowhere and you won't need social rules.
                      ​​​
                      I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
                      I'm in the shadows in the corners of my room

                      Comment


                      • DnBLover can speak on my behalf from this point
                        1 Coldplay |2 Galantis|3 Sigrid |4 pnau |5 Agnes

                        Comment


                        • Do I understand correctly that you'd support mandatory vaccination? Not just for Covid but also including other mass viral illnesses? What about maybe HIV?
                          Pro: freedom of speech
                          Contra: cancel culture

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                          • Originally posted by SholasBoy View Post
                            DnBLover can speak on my behalf from this point
                            No no no the world should not be denied your beautiful voice. Vocaroo notes from now on
                            Last edited by InFamous; Tue May 18, 2021, 21:09.
                            Zero tolerance for : bigotry, racism, wilful ignorance.
                            Pronouns: He / Him

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                            • Originally posted by theMathematician View Post
                              Do I understand correctly that you'd support mandatory vaccination? Not just for Covid but also including other mass viral illnesses? What about maybe HIV?
                              Well HIV is not something that’s going to sweep through the country by airborne particles.
                              1 Coldplay |2 Galantis|3 Sigrid |4 pnau |5 Agnes

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                              • Corona virus is still not comparable to HIV and never will be and to keep making that comparison is honestly trolling at this point plain and simple.
                                Last edited by InFamous; Tue May 18, 2021, 21:09.
                                Zero tolerance for : bigotry, racism, wilful ignorance.
                                Pronouns: He / Him

                                Comment


                                • That is correct. I was focussing on DnBLover 's argument that Covid patients require medical treatments that may limit capacities for other medical needs. Theoretically, you could say the same for any viral illness, including HIV.
                                  Covid spreads more easily, but it also needs to be considered that the vast majority of patients thankfully only experience a mild or even asymptomatic case, especially among the aforementioned children.
                                  Pro: freedom of speech
                                  Contra: cancel culture

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                                  • To me, it's telling that in a first world county, with all the freedoms we enjoy, that there are people who outright refuse to do what is considered to be the right and decent thing to do, without having a solid reason for it.

                                    Fear is not a solid enough reason, so far as I can tell. The caution around the newness of the vaccine is probably warranted but the speedy timeline, process and development has already been explained and the information about its efficacy easy to find (if you wanted to).

                                    Which leaves the "it's my right" argument. Look, I'm not a big fan of authority, or being told what to do. But guess what? This is actually not about me. This is about everyone - the few I know personally, and the millions I don't.

                                    Life constantly propositions us to do the the right and decent thing, and I like to think for the majority, us humans try to do it.

                                    This justification for not taking the vaccine seems like a guy who didn't wear seat belts and drove way over the speed limit all the time, but because he never had an accident, and nobody got hurt, he believed he was right to do it. FFS.
                                    Addict. Advocate. Author. Artist.
                                    My journey of R&B, addiction and superheroes....
                                    www.rawirijames.com
                                    #LostBoy album and novel OUT NOW!

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                                    • Originally posted by theMathematician View Post
                                      That is correct. I was focussing on DnBLover 's argument that Covid patients require medical treatments that may limit capacities for other medical needs. Theoretically, you could say the same for any viral illness, including HIV.
                                      no you can't. It's unethical to come to this conclusion.
                                      My Chart

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                                      • Originally posted by Rawiri James View Post
                                        To me, it's telling that in a first world county, with all the freedoms we enjoy, that there are people who outright refuse to do what is considered to be the right and decent thing to do, without having a solid reason for it.

                                        Fear is not a solid enough reason, so far as I can tell. The caution around the newness of the vaccine is probably warranted but the speedy timeline, process and development has already been explained and the information about its efficacy easy to find (if you wanted to).

                                        Which leaves the "it's my right" argument. Look, I'm not a big fan of authority, or being told what to do. But guess what? This is actually not about me. This is about everyone - the few I know personally, and the millions I don't.

                                        Life constantly propositions us to do the the right and decent thing, and I like to think for the majority, us humans try to do it.

                                        This justification for not taking the vaccine seems like a guy who didn't wear seat belts and drove way over the speed limit all the time, but because he never had an accident, and nobody got hurt, he believed he was right to do it. FFS.

                                        Sir Andrew LW recently likened those that want to go back into society without their vaccinations to those that choose to drink drive, I get that.
                                        1 Coldplay |2 Galantis|3 Sigrid |4 pnau |5 Agnes

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by SholasBoy View Post


                                          Sir Andrew LW recently likened those that want to go back into society without their vaccinations to those that choose to drink drive, I get that.
                                          The Lord will set the Phantom on you for such oversight!
                                          “I shouldn’t be in a conservatorship if I can work and provide money and work for myself and pay other people — it makes no sense”

                                          #FreeBritney

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                                          • Well if he’s not a sir, he should be for Jade Ewen alone.
                                            1 Coldplay |2 Galantis|3 Sigrid |4 pnau |5 Agnes

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by DnBLover View Post

                                              Damn condescension and arrogance much.

                                              There are mandatory vaccines in the western world already. Several.
                                              None of which are 6 months old
                                              jio CHARTS NOW: 3/8/2021: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...9#post10680609

                                              Comment


                                              • Originally posted by Rawiri James View Post

                                                Fear is not a solid enough reason, so far as I can tell. The caution around the newness of the vaccine is probably warranted but the speedy timeline, process and development has already been explained and the information about its efficacy easy to find (if you wanted to).
                                                Data about the safety of these vaccines are still emerging. 2 months ago you would know nothing about the clots, now Pfizer is investigated about myocarditis. These are new products we do not know everything about them. Efficacy? We only know about early efficacy, we do not know how long protection lasts.

                                                You may be young and fearless but not all people are. Some people have passed blood clots, heart disease or severe medicine reactions and are simply scared. You could try to be a bit more sympathetic instead of just talking about "not solid enough reason"...
                                                jio CHARTS NOW: 3/8/2021: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...9#post10680609

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                                                • Originally posted by stevyy View Post

                                                  no you can't. It's unethical to come to this conclusion.
                                                  I have to question if he even knows and understands how HIV is transmitted to keep making this ridiculous comparison.
                                                  Zero tolerance for : bigotry, racism, wilful ignorance.
                                                  Pronouns: He / Him

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                                                  • Originally posted by jio View Post

                                                    Data about the safety of these vaccines are still emerging. 2 months ago you would know nothing about the clots, now Pfizer is investigated about myocarditis. These are new products we do not know everything about them. Efficacy? We only know about early efficacy, we do not know how long protection lasts.

                                                    You may be young and fearless but not all people are. Some people have passed blood clots, heart disease or severe medicine reactions and are simply scared. You could try to be a bit more sympathetic instead of just talking about "not solid enough reason"...
                                                    I take your point here. And you're right, with any new treatments and medications, there is going to be side effects that haven't resulted from trials that we see play out in the real world. Categorically, I don't wish any ill on people; and it's dreadful that some people have developed such things as blood clots and impaired heart functioning. To your own point, the data is new and not clear on this - we still don't know that there aren't other factors contributing to this. And while I try to be empathetic (I don't mean to come across as rude or mean in my comments earlier), empathy works both ways. Where is the empathy for those who flagrantly flout the established rules which has lead to injury and death of others?
                                                    Addict. Advocate. Author. Artist.
                                                    My journey of R&B, addiction and superheroes....
                                                    www.rawirijames.com
                                                    #LostBoy album and novel OUT NOW!

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