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  • Originally posted by menime123 View Post

    That’s not how you calculate herd immunity though. You don’t need a vaccine to achieve herd immunity and your figures don’t incorporate natural immunity (e.g. through exposure) to the virus, nor the rate of infection. You also have to consider that the vaccines don’t offer 100% protection and the fact you can still catch covid after having your jabs.
    That's not clear whether you could also achieve herd immunity by having a lot of people infected.
    Anyway, you've got both numbers quoted in Germany, the share of vaccinated adults and the share of vaccinated people within the entire population, though the latter tends to be quoted more often.
    Pro: freedom of speech
    Contra: cancel culture

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    • Originally posted by Hugo View Post
      So the British can't travel to Portugal unless they're willing to stay on quarantine when they return...
      ​​​​​
      Eh... What's the vaccination for, then?

      This is so stupid, politicians can't stand that their people want to spend their summer somewhere else.
      Well considering the loss of income the UK government gets from taxes on international holidays bought and paid for in the UK, I’m pretty sure they want holidays to restart ASAP.

      International travel for recreation in the midst of a global pandemic is stupid when you considering the vaccine is designed to stop serious illness (that requires hospitalisation) rather than stopping transmission of the virus.

      Holidays are a luxury, not a right.
      Bleep Bloop Blop

      Comment


      • Highest infection rates in UK since March.... but we are out of lockdown with pubs bars gyms restaurants shops etc open... what did they think was going to happen I still don’t understand why people are flapping again.
        1 Inna |2 Camila Cabello|3 Wizkid |4 Coldplay |5 Kevin McKay

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        • Originally posted by SholasBoy View Post
          Highest infection rates in UK since March.... but we are out of lockdown with pubs bars gyms restaurants shops etc open... what did they think was going to happen I still don’t understand why people are flapping again.
          It may increase to February levels soon.

          UK Covid live news: new daily cases hit 6,238 as R value rises to between 1.0 and 1.2
          How long will we see this upwards trend?

          Comment


          • Good news on jabbing kids in the UK now. Dirty little COVID spreaders.

            Comment


            • I find it interesting watching This Morning to see a change in the feelings of their guests, this seems to be paralleled with what I have seen on social media too. A year ago people were up in arms about people mixing in supermarkets, not wearing masks, going on holidays, the government should be putting us in lockdown etc...and a year on they're calling for the government to push ahead with June 21st and let us live with the virus and stop further lockdowns.
              1 Inna |2 Camila Cabello|3 Wizkid |4 Coldplay |5 Kevin McKay

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              • European new 14-days infection rates per 100 000 from lowest (#1) to highest (#31) (no micro-states): UPDATE
                1.(1) Malta
                2.(2) Iceland
                3.(4) Romania
                4.(5) Finland
                5.(7) Poland
                6.(3) United Kingdom
                7.(8) Bulgaria
                8.(9) Hungary
                9.(6) Portugal
                10.(12) Slovakia
                ...
                13.(15) Italy
                14.(17) Germany
                17.(16) Spain
                ...
                27.(26) Belgium
                28.(29) Latvia
                29.(28) Netherlands
                30.(31) Lithuania
                31.(18) France
                Last edited by jio; Fri June 4, 2021, 18:15.
                jio CHARTS NOW: 19/10/2021: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...5#post10765535

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                • Originally posted by SholasBoy View Post
                  I find it interesting watching This Morning to see a change in the feelings of their guests, this seems to be paralleled with what I have seen on social media too. A year ago people were up in arms about people mixing in supermarkets, not wearing masks, going on holidays, the government should be putting us in lockdown etc...and a year on they're calling for the government to push ahead with June 21st and let us live with the virus and stop further lockdowns.
                  We can't keep locking down forever. As long as hospitals can cope I say open everything. People are mixing everywhere at this point.
                  Zero tolerance for : bigotry, racism, wilful ignorance.
                  Pronouns: He / Him

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                  • Yup, if we lockdown every time there is a rise in infections or a new variant we are basically locked down forever. Vaccinations are doing well and they’re our only way out so if they work then great and if they don’t let’s enjoy ourselves in the meantime.
                    1 Inna |2 Camila Cabello|3 Wizkid |4 Coldplay |5 Kevin McKay

                    Comment


                    • Yes, we now have the vaccine and this are going well. As long as hospitals can cope and the majority of us have the vaccine, all should be well. Public Health England have reporting just 48 covid deaths over the last seven days, which is a massive reduction. Still 48 too many, but I think if we continue as we are, it should continue to drop.

                      I don’t know what the plan is regarding vaccinating kids, but a single dose in schools come September sounds reasonable - kind of like how we used to get the six pricks and BCG jab.
                      Bleep Bloop Blop

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                      • Reality check: Children should not be vaccinated with any of these vaccines. Astrazeneca and J&J are responsible for blood clots in a frequency increasing with younger age. And the mRNA vaccines have been implicated with myocarditis in people under 30 especially ages 16-19. Also given that the chances a younger kid will be harmed by COVID-19 are small, this is clearly a case of the risk being too high compared with the benefit.
                        jio CHARTS NOW: 19/10/2021: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...5#post10765535

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by jio View Post
                          Reality check: Children should not be vaccinated with any of these vaccines.
                          That’s an opinion, not a reality check.

                          Originally posted by jio View Post
                          Also given that the chances a younger kid will be harmed by COVID-19 are small, this is clearly a case of the risk being too high compared with the benefit.
                          Nope - children getting the vaccine is about preventing transmission and the vaccine is proven to prevent it and is now published on medical literature.

                          The UK and other countries have authorised vaccines for use in children (12+ in the UK).

                          You have been against vaccines consistently from day one so your opinion doesn’t surprise me, but it’s disheartening to see you continue with this wave of anti-vax agenda when greater minds than yours or mine have assessed the data and approved the vaccines.

                          From the figures we can see vaccination is working so I don’t really understand why you continue fighting them - if you don’t want a vaccine that’s fine, but don’t dress up your fears as protecting children because it’s not.
                          Bleep Bloop Blop

                          Comment


                          • ... and of course you answer nothing of what I have said ... the data are there, just read them and then decide whether you will endanger kids or not, it's as simple as that...
                            jio CHARTS NOW: 19/10/2021: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...5#post10765535

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                            • Originally posted by jio View Post
                              ... and of course you answer nothing of what I have said ... the data are there, just read them and then decide whether you will endanger kids or not, it's as simple as that...
                              You didn’t ask any questions and we have debated the blood clot thing before - it’s not a concern. If you think you are more knowledgeable than medical experts and scientists that is your decision. But you are guided by fear, not knowledge, and therefore irrationality - and irrational thinking is not constructive when discussing the safety of children.
                              Bleep Bloop Blop

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by jio View Post
                                ... and of course you answer nothing of what I have said ... the data are there, just read them and then decide whether you will endanger kids or not, it's as simple as that...
                                You act as if menime is personally making the decision. Governments in the US, UK, France and Germany off the top of my head have approved vaccines for children. Are you acting as if they are all intentionally endangering children? You sound to be frank, quite ridiculous.
                                Zero tolerance for : bigotry, racism, wilful ignorance.
                                Pronouns: He / Him

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                                • Darlings, it's really tiring what you are doing... I stated a couple of facts which come from very official sources (or minds better than mine as menime wants to put it) which clearly suggest to me (and to any logical person I guess) that vaccinating children poses a needless risk. I would love to listen to a logical response as to why I am wrong, instead I am getting an answer which talks about efficacy (which is not the issue here), a history of my opinions (as if I am personally judged) and then the ultimate answer (great minds have allowed it so it must be correct but without explaining why it is so), an answer which is also partly wrong as I am going to explain later.

                                  Listen, if someone wants to answer to my points normally, that means by pointing out how my point of view is wrong or what is the great benefit in taking that risk, then you are very welcome. If you wanna answer on personal basis, or on irrelevant basis (efficacy instead of safety) or on the basis of whatever the governments decide is correct and not up for debate (I wonder when did we reach this point), then you are not welcome because simply I aim at a bit more stimulating discussion than that.

                                  Also, the attitude "we debated the clots already" means exactly what? Yes, we debated the clots, so did those greater minds than me that menime mentioned (as if he knows my iq or my profession or my anything) and the conclusion in most countries including the UK was that one of the vaccines that menime is suggesting to be given to children are not to be given to adults under 40 (which really calls into question why menime's opinion is treated as legitimate and not getting questioned). The myocarditis link to the pfizer vaccine was only announced by Israel's (a country nobody can accuse of being against vaccinations) authorities a couple of days ago. Although that did not cancel Israel's plan to vaccinate children, it did lead to a significant change: while before it had been announced that Israel would vaccinate all children age 12 and above, now it will only vaccinate high-risk children and whoever chooses to be vaccinated but not children in general. Which is a prudent stance based on the risk-benefit ratio I mentioned above and on personal choice.

                                  I really don't understand why people here are unable to discuss such obvious questions without getting all worked up. I mean seriously.

                                  Infamous: menime is not making the decisions and neither do I. But any opinion has consequences. Anybody who supports a public policy (any policy) that damages someone may not be legally responsible for that policy but is morally responsible. If I support for example fortress Europe, I am morally responsible for the deaths among migrants in the med. Same here. We have responsibility for what we say and write.
                                  Last edited by jio; Sat June 5, 2021, 00:49.
                                  jio CHARTS NOW: 19/10/2021: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...5#post10765535

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by jio View Post

                                    Also, the attitude "we debated the clots already" means exactly what?
                                    It means I’m not going to go around in circles with you. You want my opinion? Pick a page number and look backwards. I’m too busy looking forward now I’m fully vaccinated.

                                    I really don't understand why people here are unable to discuss such obvious questions without getting all worked up. I mean seriously.
                                    I’m not worked up - you’re just annoyed I’m not playing

                                    Anybody who supports a public policy that damages someone may not be legally responsible for that policy but is morally responsible.
                                    So by the same logic, anyone who doesn’t support a public policy and damages someone is morally irresponsible too. Which is what I said six months ago about people who don’t want to be vaccinated.

                                    Like I said, it’s all just one big circle.
                                    Bleep Bloop Blop

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                                    • The essay.

                                      Goodnight everyone
                                      Zero tolerance for : bigotry, racism, wilful ignorance.
                                      Pronouns: He / Him

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                                      • I see that you both ignored my request of not answering if you have nothing to say... OK...
                                        jio CHARTS NOW: 19/10/2021: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...5#post10765535

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                                        • Originally posted by jio View Post
                                          I see that you both ignored my request of not answering if you have nothing to say... OK...
                                          I didn't read your reply to be honest. Too long winded. And you're against the vaccine anyway so I can't be bothered debating with you
                                          Last edited by InFamous; Sat June 5, 2021, 23:13.
                                          Zero tolerance for : bigotry, racism, wilful ignorance.
                                          Pronouns: He / Him

                                          Comment


                                          • You know the strategy of not answering to valid points but instead resorting to calling others names and characterizations in order to weaken an argument indirectly just shows inability to answer. It's an old and very transparent technique (and may I say not a highly intelligent one).

                                            Btw I am vaccinated.
                                            jio CHARTS NOW: 19/10/2021: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...5#post10765535

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by jio View Post
                                              You know the strategy of not answering to valid points but instead resorting to calling others names and characterizations in order to weaken an argument indirectly just shows inability to answer. It's an old and very transparent technique (and may I say not a highly intelligent one).

                                              Btw I am vaccinated.
                                              I don’t really know how many ways to put it - I don’t want to discuss it with you. It’s not an inability to answer, it’s a lack of interest in having the same conversation again.

                                              What it boils down to is one simple truth: the vaccines are safe and are approved for use. Your objections don’t matter.
                                              Bleep Bloop Blop

                                              Comment


                                              • Menime I am not sure if you get it but if you don't want to discuss with someone, u simply don't answer. If you answer with catch phrases and attitude, it means you want to discuss but have no better (or maybe any) arguments. There are plenty of people who don't want to discuss with me and, unlike you and InFamous, they simply don't answer. It's not that complicated really (especially when I specifically asked you not to answer if you have nothing on point to say).

                                                Me on the other hand, I do want to discuss so I am answering.
                                                jio CHARTS NOW: 19/10/2021: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...5#post10765535

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                                                • Getting my vaccine on Thursday. Glad things are finally speeding up here.
                                                  My Instagram... - Click here

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                                                  • Originally posted by jio View Post
                                                    Menime I am not sure if you get it but if you don't want to discuss with someone, u simply don't answer. If you answer with catch phrases and attitude, it means you want to discuss but have no better (or maybe any) arguments. There are plenty of people who don't want to discuss with me and, unlike you and InFamous, they simply don't answer. It's not that complicated really (especially when I specifically asked you not to answer if you have nothing on point to say).

                                                    Me on the other hand, I do want to discuss so I am answering.
                                                    Maybe if you want to discuss something with someone dont open with " ReALiTy ChEcK"

                                                    Also I said what I had to say on the topic.

                                                    Also it is rather ironic that you are crowing about people getting personal with you then referring to others as unintelligent LOL

                                                    Take a look at your own approach perhaps.
                                                    Last edited by InFamous; Sat June 5, 2021, 20:30.
                                                    Zero tolerance for : bigotry, racism, wilful ignorance.
                                                    Pronouns: He / Him

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