Coronavirus outbreak

[Wayne]

I’m all for vaccinations, but excluding non-vaccinated people is a whole other topic. I find some measures very extreme. As for the Djokovic case, I don’t know all the details. I suppose something was not right, but still there need to be feasible opportunities for unvaccinated to participate in public life. The anti non vaccinated discours is getting too harsh and it’s severely gonna hurt our democracies. Especially in countries where the health care sector is not under pressure, and also when new possibilities to fight the virus are being released. I don’t get why people don’t get vaccinated, but I do understand that some people just don’t get it out of political principles, and how easily some rights have been stripped down. The situation is very different now in comparison with a year ago.

The Djokovic case was representative of a very important question - in the middle of a pandemic, do those who choose not to get vaccinated have the right to continue living their lives as freely as those who are vaccinated?

It's such a complex question with compelling and frightening arguments on both sides.

[InFamous]

The unvaccinated are all about pro choice so they have to accept government decision to make the choice to limit their movement and impose restrictions on them.
Also there are no religious reasons for someone to not get vaccinated.

[Debs_Wild]

do those who choose not to get vaccinated have the right to continue living their lives as freely as those who are vaccinated?

The answer is very simple - Yes. Why not?

[stevyy]

There are different reasons why people don't want to get vaccinated:
- religious reasons
- rejection of modern medicine
- political reasons
- fear of health consequences
- general scepticism towards 'new things'
- conspiracy theories

1. religious reasons: no religion is against vaccination... those who are, are not religions, but cults.

2. rejection of modern medicine is a choice and does have societal consequences... for example children cannot attend schools and kindergartens if they are not vaccinated against measles.

3. there are no political reasons for anyone to be anti-vaxx... unless you try to undermine the government (which I think is stupid in this case).

4. It's the only vaguely kind-a semi... understandable cause... however, the vaccines are safe (as scientifically proven) and if people are against science... then I have no words.

5. scepticism... is no reason at all, unless your main source for news in Facebook.

6. Conspiracy theories... lie underneath the positions 1-5, therefore... catch 22.

[Wayne]

The answer is very simple - Yes. Why not?

Well for one, science proves that the unvaccinated are a significantly greater burden on medical resources than those who are vaccinated - so in countries where access to medicine is funded by the state, why shouldn't the state be empowered to introduce restrictions on those who choose not to be vaccinated, thus reducing said burden? Not my opinion, but certainly a popular one I've seen by those in favour of restrictions on the unvaccinated.

It's a very complex matter.

[spiritboy]

At this point, hospitals should start normal treatments and give the priority to vaccinated patients. Unvaccinated can look after their own and if they die because of covid, then that's their choice. No need to burden the hospitals with them.

[theMathematician]

1. religious reasons: no religion is against vaccination... those who are, are not religions, but cults.

An unvaccinated co-worker told me friends of hers remain unvaccinated for religious reasons. I never digged deeper because I didn't care, so I can't say where the conflict between taking the vaccination and their religious practise is.

@spiritboy: The German health minister says that the unvaccinated need to protected - even if they don't feel the need for others to protect them. It's a difficult situation...
As I previously wrote: Doctors don't choose their patients from a moral point of view. They are supposed to treat everyone equally. They can only prioritize someone if they reached the maximum of their capacities and that person has got better surviving chances.
Besides, hospitals also treat people with lung cancer after smoking heavy for 30 years. Couldn't you say 'You should've known better?' to them as well?

[BodyShop]

What puzzles me is how someone don't trust science when it comes to a simple vaccine
BUT
Once they're heavily ill they out of sudden trust doctors and science and everything else, rush to hospitals and want an equal treatment ? How's that possible? Hows that not a contradiction ?
in my city, 9 out of 10 patients in hospitals havent been vaccinated so,yeah,there's not a valid argument to stand for this atrocity called 'anti-vaxxers' .
Imo all restrictions are way too mild on them.

[theMathematician]

I guess the easiest answer is: Just ask someone and they'll tell you about their motives!

[BodyShop]

I guess the easiest answer is: Just ask someone and they'll tell you about their motives!

If this is a reply to my post,it makes absolutely no sense.

[Thriller]

The UK media reporting today that all Covid restrictions in England could be (re)removed by the end of January.

Self-isolation for positive tests reduces to 5 days from tomorrow, providing a negative lateral on days 5 and 6.

[InFamous]

If this is a reply to my post,it makes absolutely no sense.

I was thinking the exact same thing

[stevyy]

What puzzles me is how someone don't trust science when it comes to a simple vaccine
BUT
Once they're heavily ill they out of sudden trust doctors and science and everything else, rush to hospitals and want an equal treatment ? How's that possible? Hows that not a contradiction ?
in my city, 9 out of 10 patients in hospitals havent been vaccinated so,yeah,there's not a valid argument to stand for this atrocity called 'anti-vaxxers' .
Imo all restrictions are way too mild on them.

absolutely agree. If they are so anti-science then they should fund and staff their own "hospitals"...

[InFamous]

Deported !!!

[theMathematician]

If this is a reply to my post,it makes absolutely no sense.

How so? You wonder why some people are against vaccinations and still accept medical services when they experience heavy cases. We could assume reasons, but instead of doing so, why don't you just ask one? I'm sure you've got anti-vaccination in your closer environment, haven't you?

[Wayne]

The UK media reporting today that all Covid restrictions in England could be (re)removed by the end of January.

Self-isolation for positive tests reduces to 5 days from tomorrow, providing a negative lateral on days 5 and 6.

Totally makes sense IMO - new case numbers have fallen quite significantly (despite testing capacity being at its highest ever). What England has proven beyond reasonable doubt is that our health systems can cope both with 1) a new variant and 2) exponentially increasing case numbers, with only mild measures needed. And this is because our population is mostly vaccinated (with the highest % of "booster" vaccination uptake in the world) and for the most part, humans can be responsible when they need to be.

What is concerning is the ongoing cost of testing and tracing, eventually I suspect there will come a time where this either stops being required or the cost is somehow passed onto individuals.

[theMathematician]

The UK media reporting today that all Covid restrictions in England could be (re)removed by the end of January.

Self-isolation for positive tests reduces to 5 days from tomorrow, providing a negative lateral on days 5 and 6.

That's great! The responsible people in my country say we can't do so yet because of the many unvaccinated people especially among older generations :/ .

[Thriller]

Totally makes sense IMO - new case numbers have fallen quite significantly (despite testing capacity being at its highest ever). What England has proven beyond reasonable doubt is that our health systems can cope both with 1) a new variant and 2) exponentially increasing case numbers, with only mild measures needed. And this is because our population is mostly vaccinated (with the highest % of "booster" vaccination uptake in the world) and for the most part, humans can be responsible when they need to be.

What is concerning is the ongoing cost of testing and tracing, eventually I suspect there will come a time where this either stops being required or the cost is somehow passed onto individuals.

I think the government are desperate to stop testing on the scale it’s currently at and I reckon by mid-year the cost burden will be passed on to the public, numbers will plummet and it’ll be part of the “living with it” approach that’s been touted for a while now. After this winter, I’m surprised there’s anyone left who’s not had it by now, knowingly or unknowingly!

[BodyShop]

How so? You wonder why some people are against vaccinations and still accept medical services when they experience heavy cases. We could assume reasons, but instead of doing so, why don't you just ask one? I'm sure you've got anti-vaccination in your closer environment, haven't you?

I'll spare myself from trying to explain such a simple thing...
after all, just the other day you were comparing kids who die of covid with kids who die of drowning so... nevermind.
My question still stands and there's not an answer for it. Regardless of "asking them".
Simply because, like everything these people do, it's an irrational response against something they "judge"(?) to be important ,period.

[theMathematician]

There was a time when testing actually was not for free in Germany as well. It was some time in fall 2021 when politicians said: 'Well, you can get vaccinated. You either do that or you have to pay for your test.'. A few weeks later, cases rose again, the German politics panicked once again and tests were made free again.

[theMathematician]

I'll spare myself from trying to explain such a simple thing...
after all, just the other day you were comparing kids who die of covid with kids who die of drowning so... nevermind.
My question still stands and there's not an answer for it. Regardless of "asking them".
Simply because, like everything these people do, it's an irrational response against something they "judge"(?) to be important ,period.

I never did ;) .

I don't like the human image you illustrate here. In fact, it's essentially discrimination because you put 'these people' in one box and simply assume that their response is 'irrational' without even giving them a chance to explain their motives, which basically leads the question you asked before ad absurdum as you already pressume to know it or in actual fact not even care about it.

[stevyy]

That's great! The responsible people in my country say we can't do so yet because of the many unvaccinated people especially among older generations :/ .

by the number of demonstrations those 22 million unvaxxed people will never get vaxxed and we will never get anything good.

I just checked: (14th January)

1st dose: 62,350,942 people ------- population: 84,196,003 (2022)
2nd dose: 60,382,284 people ----- population: 84,196,003 (2022)
3rd dose: 38,739,106 people ------- ...

[stevyy]

I never did ;) .

I don't like the human image you illustrate here. In fact, it's essentially discrimination because you put 'these people' in one box and simply assume that their response is 'irrational' without even giving them a chance to explain their motives, which basically leads the question you asked before ad absurdum as you already pressume to know it or in actual fact not even care about it.

their is no logical motive behind not getting vaccinated, unless you believe your Facebook news feed.

[stevyy]

There was a time when testing actually was not for free in Germany as well. It was some time in fall 2021 when politicians said: 'Well, you can get vaccinated. You either do that or you have to pay for your test.'. A few weeks later, cases rose again, the German politics panicked once again and tests were made free again.

that was the CDU... stupid CDU. I cannot believe anyone would vote for them. Jens Spahn was incompetent as fark. (and corrupt).

[theMathematician]

Among those 22 mio. people are children below the age of 5 which cannot get vaccinated yet. For children below the age of 12, the Stiko only approves the vaccination in the case of health pre-conditions and many infants' doctors still stick with that. A few adults are also waiting for the inactivated vaccine to make it to the market as they do not trust MRNA-based vaccines. So while it is true that a high share of those 22 mio. people chooses to remain unvaccinated, it's not the case with everyone.