U.K. Politics: Boris Johnson referred to police (AGAIN) over potential Covid rule breaches

[Brad]

The current education system doesn't equip anyone with the knowledge of real life skills before the age of 18 (buying a house, good financing, etc. etc), but I think Graham is going to the extreme.

I'm still not convinced it is now the function of the education system to teach someone about buying a house for e.g. Though I do think the life skills bit is worth consideration.

Buying a house is a life skill. Why not make it a function of the education system? It's better that people learn how to do these things as it's necessary unlike a vast number of things learnt at school. I think it has always been necessary as most young people are pretty much clueless about these things after they've left school and need to know them. They learn that hard way. It's something that has needed to be done for many, many years and what better time to do it than now after the financial crisis we have faced?

[Wayne]

The current education system doesn't equip anyone with the knowledge of real life skills before the age of 18 (buying a house, good financing, etc. etc), but I think Graham is going to the extreme.

But it has never been necessary for the education system to do this before - the last time we had an election, we were just starting on the road to austerity. And 4 years before that, recession was just a buzzword. So I guess it's never really been an issue.

I'm still not convinced it is now the function of the education system to teach someone about buying a house for e.g. Though I do think the life skills bit is worth consideration.

I definitely think that as part of the socialization of young people, there needs to be a balanced input of both primary and secondary influences, and I think education does need to become more vocational - perhaps a more balanced curriculum that allows regular time for work experience. Education shouldn't just be academia. But the secondary influences can only truly impact if the primary influences are steadfast - good parenting, good values, being the best you can be.

It's frustrating that nobody is really talking about this - I can't recall one strong education message from any party during the current campaign.

[Brad]

The current education system doesn't equip anyone with the knowledge of real life skills before the age of 18 (buying a house, good financing, etc. etc), but I think Graham is going to the extreme.

Apart the fact that the suicide rate is highest in teenagers as they cope with problems such as bullying in schools
Education also fosters racism, extreme radical views

These aren't problems with the eduction system, but the people in it due to socialisation.

There was a massive problem with bullying and racism at my high school when I was younger, but it wasn't down to the education system. The children had simply inherited the views and ideologies of their parents. Some have grown to be entirely different due to the education system doings its best to educate them on such issues (it certainly tried in a class we had called Citizenship at my school).

[Wayne]

Bloody hell.

[Marius]

Education also fosters racism, extreme radical views

Yeah, all UKIP / BNP / EDL supporters, are known to hold PhDs and MBAs...

[Graham76man]

Since I don't know you much Wayne I can't say precisely what the Education system has done to you. HOWEVER it is destroying the UK. It contributes to most of the UK problems, most of which are being discussed in this election.
Apart the fact that the suicide rate is highest in teenagers as they cope with problems such as bullying in schools, or trying to get an exam to give them a job when they are thrown back into the real world, which they probably didn't really need in any case.
Education also fosters racism, extreme radical views - you only have to walk past a university to see that. I could go on and on about how bad Education, but what I do know about you Wayne - clearly as a result from the education you have had - it would be a waste of time.
But consider what the education system has produced: You might be familiar with one - the Peer group. Is this forum one of them I wonder? :-?
‘Peer’ types are familiar to all. Here are a few common names and types for them: teacher’s pet, cheerleader, the geek, the rebel, bullies, nerds, swots, larking about and the practical joker. Imagine a culture based on that lot! Hello! Welcome to the 21st Century.

Still think education is good for the UK? Try working in a inner city areas, where gangs are as common as muck and the drug dealers make money from the kids, trying to convince someone to get an O level will magic away their problems. While at the same time knowing the gangs were created by the education system and the drugs were a by-product of it.

As for the money, since you probably pay Council Tax, then since over 50% of any council's budget is for education, combined with the tax system itself. I would say that £100 pounds is about right - as a guess! Of course if you the consider all the problems that education contributes greatly too then, then you need to factor those costs in. Crime for example, drug treatment on the NHS etc....

[Wayne]

Would you sooner have a 15 year old earning £100 a week than learning about dead poets costing you a £100 pound a week?
Your choice

I would much, much rather have the 14/15 year old in school. I also don't know where your £100 per week figure comes from?

Making 14 and 15 year olds work is regressive and stupid in my mind.

The extra two/three years I spent at school/college allowed me the opportunity to right a lot of wrongs/mistakes I'd made. Had I left at 14, I dread to think where I'd have ended up. School isn't for everyone, but everyone deserves the same opportunities - our education system isn't perfect but the solution will not be found in shortening the education of those most in need of it. The education system costing me money doesn't phase me - I'm happy to put back into a system that did a great deal for me.

I don't know why I let you do this to me.

[Brad]

Yeah, I expect Labour to win Heeley. I'll be voting Green in Central. The Lib Dems will probably lose Hallam to Labour.

[Graham76man]

Who are you voting for? Which Sheffield constituency are you in?

I'm in the Heeley constituency and the Green leaflet says it's Rita Wilcock, plus we have a local job as well and Mike Herbert is doing that for the Green's. We have only had one other leaflet for the TUC. Last time the main parties sent their leaflets out too late, since we are all postal voters in our house and sent them off. However the Green party doesn't get a great amount of votes in Heeley. Mostly Labour voters unfortunately. Labour tend to complain that the vote for Green is allowing the Liberals in, when last they got in. But it's no longer the Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire.

[Brad]

Who are you voting for? Which Sheffield constituency are you in?

[Graham76man]

What makes anyone certain we need to cut back on spending? At the end of the day the figures Governments produce are just that. Most of the economics ones brought out by a bunch of overpaid accountants. It's time to start questioning the "need" for cuts and to question those who put up these figures.

You are not of this world, Graham.

Oh dear Wayne - you are on the turn Of becoming a politician

Governments just mess about with figures, they don't tackle the real issues, simply because they are up for election every five years or so. Often they claim to tackle the issues, such as telling us we need spending cuts. However reducing the school leaving age back to 14 would in the long run reduce spending and create more jobs, simply because more young people would be spending things on a wage that is greater than some allowance they get now. Since young people tend to spend money on none essentials, more than adults, that would boost the economy creating more work. The side effect of this would be that these kids would grow up better because they would mix more with adults. Learning more about life, rather than William Shakespeare.
Would you sooner have a 15 year old earning £100 a week than learning about dead poets costing you a £100 pound a week?
Your choice

[Wayne]

What makes anyone certain we need to cut back on spending? At the end of the day the figures Governments produce are just that. Most of the economics ones brought out by a bunch of overpaid accountants. It's time to start questioning the "need" for cuts and to question those who put up these figures.

You are not of this world, Graham.

[Graham76man]

However, in more recent years I have found myself questioning many of their policies, and it makes me incredibly nervous thinking about them under estimating how much we need to cut back as a country to become balanced again.

In short, this year I have no idea who I'm voting for as each party is too scant on detail and seem to be saying the buzz words to capture votes. I really don't agree with the Conservatives overall ideology however, the last 5 years haven't been tough for me personally and the UK seems to be getting back on its feet so job well done. That said, the second wave of cuts to come should they get into power with a majority government could prove devastating to public services and the prospect of the NHS under threat fills me with dread!

What makes anyone certain we need to cut back on spending? At the end of the day the figures Governments produce are just that. Most of the economics ones brought out by a bunch of overpaid accountants. It's time to start questioning the "need" for cuts and to question those who put up these figures.
Monetary figures have often been brought up in the past. 1970's Governments use to blame inflation figures on high wage settlements, but there was no evidence for this. In the 80's the government blamed inflation on too much money circulating in the economy.
I think future generations will simply look back on this need to cut spending and laugh about it as some silly theory that gullible public believed, while the real cause was ignored - whatever that is actually is still to be determined.

[Thombus]

That was a really interesting survey. I've always been surrounded by Labour voters and coming from Manchester I've seen first hand how positive the investment from New Labour has been to the City, so from a local perspective I'd always lean to Labour. However, in more recent years I have found myself questioning many of their policies, and it makes me incredibly nervous thinking about them under estimating how much we need to cut back as a country to become balanced again.

In short, this year I have no idea who I'm voting for as each party is too scant on detail and seem to be saying the buzz words to capture votes. I really don't agree with the Conservatives overall ideology however, the last 5 years haven't been tough for me personally and the UK seems to be getting back on its feet so job well done. That said, the second wave of cuts to come should they get into power with a majority government could prove devastating to public services and the prospect of the NHS under threat fills me with dread!

I'll be very interested in reading manifestos over the coming weeks and seeing if they sway me.

I got 75% Labour and 25% Conservative on that survey, btw.

[Marius]

My results (quite surprising, tbh, would have thought LibDems would do better)

Conservatives 60% (Crime, Democracy, Education, Foreign Policy / Defence, Health / NHS, Welfare)
Labour 20% (Environment, Immigration)
Green 10% (Europe)
Liberal Democrats 10% (Economy)

So yeah, if Tories drop their idiotic opposition to immigration and dislike of EU, i may even become a paying member

Russell Brand - i think he has about as much talent for politics as Ed Milliband has for stand-up comedy. I am always a bit pissed off with rich people who go on about inequality - if they mind it so much, they should give away all their wealth to charity and convince other rich people to join. Or just make a massive donation to HMRC.

I personally think inequality is good, as long as:

- it is not arrived at through robbery / pilferage (see oligarch style inequality started by privatising national resources by selling them to a few insiders - ie Russia of today)
- it is not imposed through coercion (Gov kills anyone who tries to reduce it - see some African countries today)
- appropriate controls are in place to prevent massive inter-generational accumulation of wealth (ie high inheritance taxes)
- it is not extreme (ie a country has 100 billionaires and 500m people without running water and toilets - aka India)
- it is accompanied by basic democratic rights (freedom of speech, free elections, alternance of parties in power etc)

Or, to put it shorter we should aim for equality of opportunity and inequality of outcome. That is the environment that will allow people with skills that are in demand to prosper (even dodgy skills like Russell Brand's). I'd say this is where we are now in the EEA countries, Switzerland, US, Canada, Japan, South Korea, Australia and New Zealand.

[Madgefan]

This is a helpful site. It shows the policies for each party without revealing which belong to which on all the important areas

I throw that site at everyone who can't decide who to vote.

It was interesting to take the survey although I already know who I am voting for. I got 80% Labour/20% Green which is not really a surprise to me

[Blondini]

^I took that survey - i came up personally as 66% Green and 34% Labour. What was more interesting / annoying is that Greens came a close second in the Stockton North constituency results yet we can't vote for them. :x Indeed, Greens did well on every result - England, National. Conservatives have done very badly.

Yeah, i meant non-doms in previous post.

Marius, what do you think of this: (i know he's not a politician but he ought to be given his current influence)
[youtube:jz6u1pzp]DEzVDDatibk[/youtube:jz6u1pzp]

[Brad]

This is a helpful site. It shows the policies for each party without revealing which belong to which on all the important areas

I throw that site at everyone who can't decide who to vote.

[Graham76man]

One policy that seems ludicrous is that Labour have offered to raise minimum wage from around £6.50p/h to £8p/h while UKIP said it would be £10p/h by 2020. As someone who has managed smaller businesses, I know that they can not afford to pay this, it was lead to peoples hours being cut or even losing their jobs altogether. It won't suddenly mean everyone is a bit better off, prices will rise, businesses will close. Seems so foolish.

The conservatives were going to raise the minimum wage anyway. They probably will too at some point. They don't care about smaller businesses, only the one's that pay for the Torry party.
Many small business will suffer when they build the High Speed Rail links. When that goes into City areas they will cause absolute chaos with the road system. I know this because when they built Supertram in Sheffield, shops and the like got little or no compensation from having the roads closed, traffic diverted etc. Having seen plans for HSR the entire Attercliffe Corridor will be disrupted for ages. Especially around Meadowhall. They won't like that, with the internet already taking trade from the high street shops. And these rail projects are all over the Country!
Also the money for this will come at great expense to us all, with these projects being often built with cash from the taxpayers at much greater cost using the private finance thing. That's where for example a door that should cost about £90 actually costs £300.

[SholasBoy]

One policy that seems ludicrous is that Labour have offered to raise minimum wage from around £6.50p/h to £8p/h while UKIP said it would be £10p/h by 2020. As someone who has managed smaller businesses, I know that they can not afford to pay this, it was lead to peoples hours being cut or even losing their jobs altogether. It won't suddenly mean everyone is a bit better off, prices will rise, businesses will close. Seems so foolish.

[SholasBoy]

This is a helpful site. It shows the policies for each party without revealing which belong to which on all the important areas.

My results were
40% Conservative
40% Labour
10% Green
10% Lib Dem

Which was pretty helpful considering I was thinking between Conservative and UKip and it appears I didn't actually choose any of UKIP's policies. At this point I feel that I will probably vote Conservative.

[Blondini]

OK maybe i don't know about how finance works, but Labour's rhetoric about "nom-doms" today is a step in the right direction.

Check out this hilarious boyband parody by the Greens (it's on TV tomorrow, i think). You can download it from here free
[youtube:12sh19se]PPgS7p40ERg[/youtube:12sh19se]

I swear, if Stockton North has no Green candidate - it is listed as "nominations" on their site - i will be livid. Forced to watch the "revolution" from the sidelines. I use quotation marks cause i fear Graham is right. The public won't vote for change, they never do. They did in 1997 and look what eventually happened. Or we'll get another crappy compromised coalition.
I voted Green in recent local elections, before that i was Liberal for years. They're everywhere else in the North East bar a few places.

[oasisbobo]

I think the poll is pretty spot on.

How can it be there are no Lib Dems votes I know they might not be popular, but they will still get a great deal of seats in the house from areas that will always vote for them. The poll only shows that the conservatives will be the biggest party and the rest of the country voted against them. Exactly what happened last time, but since they didn't get a majority we had a hung parliament.

I think if you ask 20 or so random people one or two are bound to vote UKIP or the Lib Dems. You could share the three Scottish voters between those parties and that would represent the English votes.

[Graham76man]

I think the poll is pretty spot on.

How can it be there are no Lib Dems votes I know they might not be popular, but they will still get a great deal of seats in the house from areas that will always vote for them. The poll only shows that the conservatives will be the biggest party and the rest of the country voted against them. Exactly what happened last time, but since they didn't get a majority we had a hung parliament.

[oasisbobo]

I think the poll is pretty spot on.