U.K. Politics: Boris Johnson referred to police (AGAIN) over potential Covid rule breaches

[westhammer]

^I think there are many barriers in place for people from backgrounds in succeeding for sure, and some of that relates to the rich elite (Tories) making sure that doesn’t change.

Australia’s current PM was born and raised in social housing

[theMathematician]

The current German government really has room for improvement, I agree ^^ ! Politicians should represent society's needs, so I even agree with you that different socioeconomic backgrounds should be represented within parliament, though I know that in reality that doesn't really happen because poorer people are less likely to want to become politicians in the first place.

[westhammer]

You're moving to a country whose political structures you disagree with?

Johnson's wife is pregnant with his 8th (!) child by the way.

What part of the political structure did I say I disagreed with? I mean you are CONTINUOUSLY moaning about the German government

I agree, we need educated politicians but there also needs to be diversity of background, including those from poorer backgrounds - Rishi/Suala represent ethnic diversity but behind it they are extremely privileged

[Artoo]

It still baffles me how an utter (basically) Oxbridge aristocratic buffoon had so much away over the British public. He is SO unrelatable for the ‘average’ person yet was adored?

Britain needs more down to earth, didn’t go to private school/Oxbridge, political leadership because the rich elite are destroying the country.

I’m moving to the UK shortly so I have a vested interest now

He played the bumbling fool and showed he was game for a laugh (like getting stuck on a zip wire). Basically he’s the kind of guy that is probably pretty entertaining down the pub, and we haven’t had a likeable politician in a long time.

It doesn’t bother me that a politician had a comfortable upbringing and was highly educated (in some ways you want the most skilled people in the top jobs), it’s their lack of awareness on the issues facing the public.

An MP should be a resident of the area they represent, and there should be a minimum residency requirement. They should know the people, their needs and dreams, and should vote in line with what they want, not the party line.

[theMathematician]

You're moving to a country whose political structures you disagree with?

Johnson's wife is pregnant with his 8th (!) child by the way.

[westhammer]

Good. It’s incredible how far he’s fallen, when you consider he was probably the most popular politician of the last twenty years, and had such a large amount of goodwill and public support at the start of the pandemic.

It still baffles me how an utter (basically) Oxbridge aristocratic buffoon had so much away over the British public. He is SO unrelatable for the ‘average’ person yet was adored?

Britain needs more down to earth, didn’t go to private school/Oxbridge, political leadership because the rich elite are destroying the country.

I’m moving to the UK shortly so I have a vested interest now

[Artoo]

Good. It’s incredible how far he’s fallen, when you consider he was probably the most popular politician of the last twenty years, and had such a large amount of goodwill and public support at the start of the pandemic.

[Wayne]

No this isn't deja-vu! (well it is but it isn't). What a surprise, rule breaker in chief broke some more rules that we didn't know about!

Boris Johnson referred to police over potential Covid rule breaches

Boris Johnson has been referred to police by the Cabinet Office over further potential rule breaches during the Covid pandemic.

The department said it made the referral after a review of documents ahead of the Covid public inquiry.

The former prime minister, who was fined last year for breaking Covid rules in 2020, denies any wrongdoing.

The Metropolitan Police said it was assessing information it had received from the Cabinet Office last week.

"It relates to potential breaches of the Health Protection Regulations between June 2020 and May 2021 at Downing Street," the force added.

A spokesman for Mr Johnson said: "Some abbreviated entries in Mr Johnson's official diary were queried by Cabinet Office during preparation for the Covid inquiry.

The spokesman added that Mr Johnson's lawyers had written to the department, as well as the Commons Privileges Committee, "explaining that the events were lawful and were not breaches of any Covid regulations."

The seven-member committee of MPs has been investigating whether Mr Johnson misled Parliament over Covid rule-breaking events in government buildings.

In a statement, the committee said it had received additional evidence from the government last week and asked Mr Johnson for a response, both of which it would now take into account during its probe.

The Cabinet Office said the material it had passed to police came from the "normal" process of reviewing documents to be submitted to the public inquiry into the government's handling of the pandemic.

The public inquiry, which is separate to the privileges committee probe, will begin hearings next month.

The Cabinet Office said officials had been obliged to disclose the documents to the police under civil service rules.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65690243

[greek_boy]

[greek_boy]

[greek_boy]

Sky News state that Labour would be short of a majority in the next election, if their results are similar - but that Sir Keir would likely be Prime Minister.

oh god... i wonder why Labour doesn't have a bigger lead

[theMathematician]

Except in countries where the far-right is rising at the polls = most of Europe.

In Germany, the far-right party is most popular with the mid-agers, meaning between 30 and 60. Younger people tend to vote for the Greens and the Liberals, older ones for the 'traditional' parties Conservatives and Sociodemocrats.

[Wayne]

Video here: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/qNDIUkO-yTI

Porthmadog: Police officer suspended after punching video

A police officer who was filmed seemingly punching a man nine times while restraining him has been suspended by North Wales Police.

The incident occurred during the arrest of a man, 34, in Porthmadog, Gwynedd, north-west Wales, on Wednesday.

In the footage, a male officer was seen with his arm around the man's neck and appeared to punch him in the face.

The Independent Office for Police Conduct (IOPC) said it had launched an independent investigation.

North Wales Police said on Thursday the matter was being "fully investigated".

The man who was being arrested has been released on bail, the force said.

The video appeared to show the suspect being taken to the ground by a male and female officer after a brief altercation.

Separate footage showed the man being led to a police vehicle with a swollen and bruised face.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-65576683

A shocking video, it follows another recent police video where armed police in the UK seemingly shot a couple of dogs when arresting a man.

[jordi_89]

Except in countries where the far-right is rising at the polls = most of Europe.

[Wayne]

Except in countries where the far-right is rising, just by looking at the polls. No maam, I don't want your *generic far-right party* to end up 3rd in the polls just because they slayed the vote with people 16-25.

Is that likely? In the UK, right wing voting is least likely to occur among younger voters, I can't see that expanding the vote to 16-17 year olds would change that.

[jordi_89]

The UK and the US should adopt the d'Hondt electoral system. It's easy-ish. It's representative. It's not overtly complicated. You can even apply to Stats and Constituencies, if you don't wanna to it on a General basis.

[jordi_89]

16 year olds should absolutely be allowed to vote… not that many would, but still!

True.



Except in countries where the far-right is rising, just by looking at the polls. No maam, I don't want your *generic far-right party* to end up 3rd in the polls just because they slayed the vote with people 16-25.

[Thriller]

16 year olds should absolutely be allowed to vote… not that many would, but still!

[westhammer]

I think preferential voting systems are much fairer (where you preference the candidates in order and your vote goes to your #2 if your #1 is eliminated from the count etc)

This first past the post system is crude and basic, very self-serving for the Tories

[Wayne]

That's what I meant. There's a lot of constituencies with not that many people, Tory wins there, and they get those seats. Just like the issue the US has every Presidential election as well. Even if you win the popular vote, if more (smaller) states vote conservative, you still lose. Which is kinda dumb. But that's how the system was built.

Oh and btw I disagree that the representation Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales is disproportionate. They're different nations. Yet they're ruled by the nation of England (which is the majority when it comes to population, votes and seats). But their ideas (or votes) are not a majority in those 3 other nations (well, idk about Wales, they seem to be pretty much assimilated nowadays compared to the other two nations). So as long as they're a part of the UK / Great Britain and its Parliament, they should have a decent amount of representation (call it "over-representation") so that they don't completely disappear or are overruled by England.

I don't disagree that they should be represented but their representation is disproportionate to the amount of overall votes they receive (I know this is an imperfect argument, as the SNP only contest Scottish seats but I'm making a fairly binary point here) - the UK parliament has some policy areas that are reserved, but many policy areas are devolved to the respective administrations of Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales meaning that they already get to decide their own politics in many areas. I don't think devolution in its current form goes far enough personally but the basic point is that the effect of our current electoral system is that the views of Liberal Democrats and the Green Party are under represented, despite them having a greater proportion of the national vote than many smaller parties.

One other way to come at this could be to make proper devolution a thing in England too - i.e. give local authorities actual powers to run their local areas.

[Artoo]

No system is perfect, and the UK’s is certainly flawed. I wish we’d just base it on votes placed. I don’t think a party has ever won an election without the majority of the votes, but I know in 2017 Labour won 40% of the vote in the last election, winning 262 parliamentary seats. The Conservatives won 42% of the vote, securing 327 parliamentary seats.

Personally I’d rather have a percentage system because everyone’s vote would actually count. Quite how that works for constituencies and assigning members to parliament I don’t know, but one problem at a time. I’d also implement a 50% rule and mandatory voting. If this means coalitions and parties working together to serve the people, then so be it.

Whilst I’m day dreaming, I’d also implement mandatory government studies to the national curriculum so that kids were taught how it all worked, and run a twenty year study that allowed sixteen year olds to vote (without it being counted), so we can monitor the implication it would have on the end results. A sixteen year old is allowed to work and pay tax, so they should have a say in who runs the country and treasury.

[jordi_89]

That's possibly some of it, Labour does tend to perform better in larger metropolitan areas where there are fewer constituencies.

But it's more the First Past the Post system - this type of voting system essentially means that the only thing that matters is that you (a party) score 1 more vote in a particular constituency than the next party. If you are the winning party, your candidate becomes MP and all of the second party's votes are irrelevant - now this affects all parties but it affects some more than others. The system also benefits regional parties that have national representation in parliament - parties like the Scottish National Party (the SNP), the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), Sinn Fein and Plaid Cymru get a disproportionate amount of MP seats, relative to their vote counts.

To address your original original point jordi_89, Labour traditionally needs Wales and Scotland to win the election - but both of these have strong national parties with clear agendas which makes the battle for Labour all the more difficult as it is virtually impossible for them to gain a majority in England alone. This voting system essentially means one of two things for Labour in 2024/2025 (whenever the election is called):

• The leading national parties in Scotland and Wales need to perform poorly and those votes need to shift to Labour. Or;
• Labour has a strong performance in the election and forms a coalition government with one or more of the Scottish or Welsh parties.

The need for electoral reform is longstanding and it will take decades to achieve.

That's what I meant. There's a lot of constituencies with not that many people, Tory wins there, and they get those seats. Just like the issue the US has every Presidential election as well. Even if you win the popular vote, if more (smaller) states vote conservative, you still lose. Which is kinda dumb. But that's how the system was built.


Oh and btw I disagree that the representation Scotland, Northern Ireland and Wales is disproportionate. They're different nations. Yet they're ruled by the nation of England (which is the majority when it comes to population, votes and seats). But their ideas (or votes) are not a majority in those 3 other nations (well, idk about Wales, they seem to be pretty much assimilated nowadays compared to the other two nations). So as long as they're a part of the UK / Great Britain and its Parliament, they should have a decent amount of representation (call it "over-representation") so that they don't completely disappear or are overruled by England.

[Wayne]

Because many seats (constituencies?) are rural areas with a small population (that tends to vote Tory), right?

That's possibly some of it, Labour does tend to perform better in larger metropolitan areas where there are fewer constituencies.

But it's more the First Past the Post system - this type of voting system essentially means that the only thing that matters is that you (a party) score 1 more vote in a particular constituency than the next party. If you are the winning party, your candidate becomes MP and all of the second party's votes are irrelevant - now this affects all parties but it affects some more than others. The system also benefits regional parties that have national representation in parliament - parties like the Scottish National Party (the SNP), the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP), Sinn Fein and Plaid Cymru get a disproportionate amount of MP seats, relative to their vote counts.

Take 2019 as an example:

• The Conservative Party received 13,941,086 votes - 363 seats in parliament.
• The Labour Party received 10,292,354 votes - 203 seats in parliament.
• The Liberal Democrats received 3,675,342 votes - 11 seats in parliament.
• The Scottish National Party received 1,242,380 votes - 48 seats in parliament.
• The Green Party received 864,743 votes - 1 seat in parliament.
• The Democratic Unionist Party received 244,127 votes - 8 seats in parliament.
• Sinn Fein received 181,853 votes - 7 seats in parliament.
• Plaid Cymru received 153,265 votes - 4 seats in parliament.

The Conservatives got 43.6% of the national vote and 56% of the seats in parliament.
The Liberal Democrats got 11.5% of the national vote and a measly 1.6% of the seats in parliament.
The Green Party received 2.7% of the national vote and 0.1% of the seats in parliament.

To address your original original point jordi_89, Labour traditionally needs Wales and Scotland to win the election - but both of these have strong national parties with clear agendas which makes the battle for Labour all the more difficult as it is virtually impossible for them to gain a majority in England alone. This voting system essentially means one of two things for Labour in 2024/2025 (whenever the election is called):

• The leading national parties in Scotland and Wales need to perform poorly and those votes need to shift to Labour. Or;
• Labour has a strong performance in the election and forms a coalition government with one or more of the Scottish or Welsh parties.

The need for electoral reform is longstanding and it will take decades to achieve.

[Artoo]

Because many seats (constituencies?) are rural areas with a small population (that tends to vote Tory), right?

Yes, Labour supports seem to be in bigger cities, or places with a history of being devastated by Tory actions. London, for example, votes Labour but all neighbouring areas vote Conservative.

[Artoo]

Yes, Labour has a long way to go still, but a start is a start.