U.K. Politics: Boris Johnson's ethics adviser Lord Geidt quits

[Artoo]

Another day, another scandal and another incidence of Boris being caught telling lies.

[Artoo]

Well that lowered the tone.

[Wayne]

Ugh, revolting!

[greek_boy]

oh mon dieu....


oopsie:

[greek_boy]

Outstanding read if you’ve got a sore 5-10 minutes.

All of that took place in barely 1 week…insanity.

LMAO another day another Tory scandal. Poor BoJo, he genuinely made an effort to be far away from the UK during by-elections + make people forget about his scandals and there you are,you've got another scandal. Just give the man a break!!

Innocent question: are we going to have another by-election now? Is he still an MP?

[greek_boy]

Northern Ireland will be part of Ireland sooner or later, thanks to Tories and Brexit so the union will break. #UnitedIreland

I support an independent Scotland IF there is a plan to exist on its own (currency, economy etc) but I am not sure there is one
I do support a second referendum because things have massively changed since 2014; they did not vote for Brexit and they don't have to suffer the consequences of Brexit (basically that's the reason behind it). if the UK government wants Scotland to remain in the union, they know what to do :-) even though their donors will not let them do it ;-)

[Wayne]

Outstanding read if you’ve got a sore 5-10 minutes.

All of that took place in barely 1 week…insanity.

[Wayne]

I think we’ll start to see lots of these polls, that show views in favour of both sides of the arguments - no single poll will be definitive unless the scale is significant.

[Artoo]

Just to clarify, I don’t want to see the poor becoming poor. If finances work then great, go get your independence. But I know Scotland has hardships:

• 1 in 4 children in Scotland (24%) are living in poverty.
• 1 in 5 working age people (19%) in Scotland are living in poverty.
• 14% of pensioners in Scotland are living in poverty.
• 61% of working age adults in poverty and 68% of children in poverty live in a household where someone is in employment.

source: Scottish Government poverty statistics.

In my opinion, and that’s all I have, independence is only a positive step is the above percentages can be reduced. There would be no benefits to independence (EU membership or not) if it were to increase these figures.

[Artoo]

I don’t think being an EU member is equivalent to being part of the UK in terms of dependence/independence. Apples and oranges.

There are differences, but many similarities. Membership to the EU means submission and legal accountability to a higher legal body, the EU would expect (as per usual process) Scotland to adopt the Euro, a hard border with England would need to be established and free movement restricted etc.

I have nothing against an independent Scotland if it makes sense for Scotland - there is a time and place and no reason why the SNP cannot take steps whilst within the union to develop and implement changes that would strengthen Scotland’s position.

Beyond demands for independence, what have the SNP done to ensure Scotland’s continued security (e.g.financially) to aide a phased independence that doesn’t damage Scotland?

For example, the Scotland Parliament gets more from HMRC than England does (per resident). Surely the first step towards demonstrating independence would be setup a financial system by which Scottish taxes remain in Scotland?

During 2020-21 tax revenue generated in Scotland amounted to about £63 billion, including North Sea oil revenue, and it benefitted from about £99 billion in public spending, a difference of £36 billion.

In 2021 the UK Government announced that its Block Grant funding for the Scottish Government would be the highest since devolution began – around £41 billion for each of the next three years. This means that for every £100 per person the UK Government spends in England on matters devolved to Scotland, the Scottish Government will receive around £126 per person in Scotland.

It just feels like the SNP are blinded on the issue of achieving independence rather than setting Scotland up for independence - which ironically would strengthen the argument.

[LittleLinda]

There’s a certain irony to wanting independence only to give it all to the EU.

I don’t think being an EU member is equivalent to being part of the UK in terms of dependence/independence. Apples and oranges.

[Artoo]

There’s a certain irony to wanting independence only to give it all to the EU.

[Rihab]

Survival is relative - it’s a matter of economics and the figures don’t add up, and the SNP do not have a viable plan: their last plan was rejected in a referendum by the Scottish people, so exactly what are they proposing to do differently if independence is gained this time?

Their last plan would have inevitably taken them out of the EU, this one takes them back into it.

They could also finally film ''Braveheart 2'', set some 700 years after the original. Plym replaces Mel Gibson.

[Artoo]

I think it’s scaremongering about Scotland not being able to survive leaving the UK.

Survival is relative - it’s a matter of economics and the figures don’t add up, and the SNP do not have a viable plan: their last plan was rejected in a referendum by the Scottish people, so exactly what are they proposing to do differently if independence is gained this time?

[westhammer]

It’s horrible to think about a U.K. without Scotland - before long, it’ll be a U.K. without Ireland too.

I hope that if Sturgeon is successful with securing a referendum, the result is against independence.

Just to be clear Ireland isn’t in the UK rather Northern Ireland is.

I think it’s scaremongering about Scotland not being able to survive leaving the UK. I think the situation is quite different in Spain considering Scotland is recognised as a separate country in many regards already (in particular sport)

[Rihab]

I mean it depends on the climate at the time, but I don’t see Spain doing anything to damage Spain.

The EU gaining a reliable 28th member state would benefit Spain, not damage it.

And there‘s been a change of government in Spain since 2014. Sanchez and his minority government actually rely on several smaller separatist parties for support. It‘s a reverse Theresa/DUP situation.

[Wayne]

It’s horrible to think about a U.K. without Scotland - before long, it’ll be a U.K. without Ireland too.

I hope that if Sturgeon is successful with securing a referendum, the result is against independence.

[Artoo]

Doubt it. They‘re saying that now to prevent a successful secession in the middle of Europe from happening. But they‘ll obviously cave once it‘s a political reality. Spain and Cyprus frankly aren‘t in the position to take the other 25 member states hostage. It‘s all fearmongering.

I mean it depends on the climate at the time, but I don’t see Spain doing anything to damage Spain.

[Rihab]

Scotland will not join the EU because Spain will veto the move (and all members must agree) because it has its own breakaway trying to gain independence that its trying hard to subdue.

Doubt it. They‘re saying that now to prevent a successful secession in the middle of Europe from happening. But they‘ll obviously cave once it‘s a political reality. Spain and Cyprus frankly aren‘t in the position to take the other 25 member states hostage. It‘s all fearmongering.

[Artoo]

Plym If you don’t want to engage that’s absolutely fine, but please don’t go twisting a perfectly legitimate and acceptable idiom into something it’s not as an excuse to disengage from a discussion you initiated.

[Plym]

it's one thing to not like someone, but when you start calling her a horse, im not going to bother reading the rest of your oppressive nonsense. we don't wanna be shackled and married to you, and we don't care if you think we'll get into the eu and adopt the euro or not, we would prefer to be poverty stricken and scottish than have our lives and laws decided by our neighbours

[Artoo]

What’s your source on this?

From the horse’s mouth - she believes the SNP won the last election with a clear mandate from the electorate to seek a new referendum. That’s exactly what she said in Holyrood today.

Politics isn’t a series of shocks and revelations (unless you read tabloids). The writing is on the wall for all major decisions long before they happen. The only real political upset in our lifetimes probably was Brexit.

Based on what Sturgeon has said herself today, I don’t actually believe that she believes the Supreme Court will grant her a legal referendum - she went on the attack against Westminster during her announcement rather than discussing her confidence in Supreme Court approval.

As for the EU, Spain must agree to allowing Scotland joining. If it does so, it would encourage Catalan to continue seeking its own independence from Spain as they’d look to join the EU too: and Spain can hardly refuse if it recognises and supported admittance of an independent Scotland.

Then there’s the fact that a condition of membership is making a commitment to adopting the Euro - and I don’t see there being an appetite for new currency in Scotland.

[Plym]

Let’s not pretend The Tories aren’t the second largest party in both Scotland and Wales.

are you aware of the margin?

Sturgeon would still be looking for independence if Labour were in power.

whats your source on this? you're very sure of yourself on everything to do with scotland. scotland won't join the eu, the referendum will be no again, sturgeon would do this and that. you have no idea what's going to happen in the next year and a half.

[Artoo]

clearly not when it's england who keep voting them in over and over and over again

Let’s not pretend The Tories aren’t the second largest party in both Scotland and Wales. The Tories are terrible but independence has nothing to do with them: Sturgeon would still be looking for independence if Labour were in power.

I have long disliked Sturgeon because she doesn’t have a viable plan for an independent Scotland. The economic realities would cripple Scotland and the First Minister’s personal ambitions won’t put food on tables. It seems to always be about achieving independence rather than the viability of being independent.

[theMathematician]

Apparently, the 'Tories' are the UK's conservative party, so I'd probably agree with most of their views, but what's your biggest problem with them? Maybe Artoo ?