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U.K. Politics: Gary Lineker v the BBC

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  • Originally posted by Wayne View Post
    Wow, brave of Bercow to do that - I'm not sure if it's his place to make that decision but it'll certainly ruffle some feathers.

    I'm at a loss as to where we go from here...I think its either: we leave with no deal on 29th March or we are successful in our application for an extension. Or the government somehow call for a motion of no-confidence in the Speaker to try and overrule his decision?! (I'm not sure if that's even possible).
    But didn't the No Deal situation got ruled out by parliament?
    "Complaining is an advertisement for stupidity"

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    • Originally posted by AlphaMale View Post
      But didn't the No Deal situation got ruled out by parliament?
      We are legally due to exit the EU on 29th March - that is legislation, not parliamentary debate. If the EU doesn't grant the UK an extension, we will de facto exit with No Deal on 29th March. Or we should - who know what will happen?!

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      • All you can do is laugh.

        I have to admit, as much as I hate the spectacle weíre making of ourselves, I do enjoy the drama of it all - but this is all absolutely dire. Upon reflection I think there are too many people wanting a say on Brexit and I feel like the government should have been allowed to use the public mandate and exit on the way they wanted.

        No one was ever going to be 100% happy with how we exit and frankly I donít think the public really care what sort of deal was agreed, as long as we got out and little changed. Now weíre faced with no-deal and all sorts of issues. I personally feel like this has to be a wake up call and we canít just rely on being a country that buys whatever we need - we must start working in house again.

        Anyway, I digress. I hope one of the EU countries goes rogue and refuses us an extension, but I doub it.
        I have a bad feeling about this.

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        • Originally posted by menime123 View Post
          I have to admit, as much as I hate the spectacle we’re making of ourselves, I do enjoy the drama of it all - but this is all absolutely dire. Upon reflection I think there are too many people wanting a say on Brexit and I feel like the government should have been allowed to use the public mandate and exit on the way they wanted.
          That is exactly the issue - parliament should never have been given a vote on this, that's the point at which Brexit became truly messy. There is no unity - MPs who are strongly against Brexit representing constituencies who voted in favour of it, MPs who are strongly for Brexit representing constituencies who are strongly against Brexit.

          This should've been a government-led deal - May should've told parliament how we were exiting, not asked them for their permission. Thus far, none of the Commons votes we've had are legally binding - so in theory, May can still crash out with "no deal" if she wants.

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          • Can you imagine what would happen if she actually didnít ask for an extension on Thursday though?
            I have a bad feeling about this.

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            • Waffles are checked cookies

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              • Originally posted by menime123 View Post
                Can you imagine what would happen if she actually didnít ask for an extension on Thursday though?
                She'd be gone by Friday?

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                • Prime Minister Theresa May is writing to the EU to formally ask for Brexit to be postponed.

                  One ministerial source told the BBC the longer delay could be up to two years, amid reports of a cabinet row, but No 10 said no decision had been made.

                  EU Brexit negotiator Michel Barnier said the EU would not grant a delay without a "concrete plan" from the UK about what they would do with it.

                  Under current law the UK will leave the EU with or without a deal in 10 days.
                  Sheís had over two and a half years, weíve ten days to go, and now sheís writing begging letters. Stupid bitch.

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                  • I donít know that itís her fault, but either way the buck rests with her.
                    I have a bad feeling about this.

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                    • The EU wouldn't dare not grant an extension - I'd love it if they didn't, be chaos all round at that point.

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                      • The fact that everything depends on Italy, Poland and Hungary now..

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                        • Originally posted by menime123 View Post
                          I don’t know that it’s her fault, but either way the buck rests with her.
                          She’s a laughing stock and hasn’t been taken seriously from day one, honestly she’s an absolute waste of time.

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                          • Originally posted by Wayne View Post
                            The EU wouldn't dare not grant an extension - I'd love it if they didn't, be chaos all round at that point.
                            Except itís not quite the EUís decision is it? I know it technically is, but all member states must agree etc. I really wouldnít be surprised if Greece said no (Farage has been talking to them) and if there was ever a time for Spain to get one over on us, itís now - I really wouldnít be surprised if they didnít ask for Gibraltar back over this.

                            That said I do agree that the EU will be in favour of granting one.
                            I have a bad feeling about this.

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                            • Originally posted by Thriller View Post
                              She’s a laughing stock and hasn’t been taken seriously from day one, honestly she’s an absolute waste of time.

                              Iím not sure how she is a laughing stock. She got a deal on the table and parliament then basically stole Brexit from the government and have made it almost impossible for her to succeed.

                              We have some MPs trying to stop Brexit at all costs. We have other MPs trying to get a Ďno dealí Brexit. Then we have another bunch of MPs trying to get another deal on the table, despite no other deal existing. We have sent May back to the EU a number of times trying to get changes to the deal and government solicitors then basically tell MPs not to vote for it. Even The Speaker blocked another vote on the deal, relying on laws from the 1600s.

                              At which point exactly did she fail or under perform as PM? Iím not sure she did. Her party tried to get rid of her and instead it confirmed its confidence in her. Labour raised a motion of no confidence and she won that one too.

                              All MPs wants their own version of Brexit and refuse to compromise. We have MPs voting against what their constituency want, based entirely on their own opinions.

                              The people voted to leave and the government set a date. Parliament had other ideas and thatís why we are where we are. Itís not through a lack of trying.
                              I have a bad feeling about this.

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                              • Yeah I mean I haven't follow her moves in detail but seems to me she is in an impossible situation. OK there is no deal but why is it solely her fault? It's not
                                jio CHARTS NOW: 21/3/2023: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...5#post11132355

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                                • Originally posted by menime123 View Post
                                  Except it’s not quite the EU’s decision is it? I know it technically is, but all member states must agree etc. I really wouldn’t be surprised if Greece said no (Farage has been talking to them) and if there was ever a time for Spain to get one over on us, it’s now - I really wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t ask for Gibraltar back over this.

                                  That said I do agree that the EU will be in favour of granting one.
                                  Greece will say whatever Germany asks it to say. That said it is in the interest of Greece for the UK to leave with a deal since the Greek population of the UK is quite large. I have a feeling that most EU governments would like to see a soft Brexit with the UK ultimately succeeding because it is a major trading partner for many. However there is a number of EU countries which stand to benefit from a problematic Brexit and that includes France and to a smaller extent Germany so with those two standing to gain that's probably the position the EU is likely to take.
                                  Last edited by jio; Wed March 20, 2019, 00:21.
                                  jio CHARTS NOW: 21/3/2023: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...5#post11132355

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                                  • Originally posted by menime123 View Post
                                    I’m not sure how she is a laughing stock. She got a deal on the table and parliament then basically stole Brexit from the government and have made it almost impossible for her to succeed.

                                    We have some MPs trying to stop Brexit at all costs. We have other MPs trying to get a ‘no deal’ Brexit. Then we have another bunch of MPs trying to get another deal on the table, despite no other deal existing. We have sent May back to the EU a number of times trying to get changes to the deal and government solicitors then basically tell MPs not to vote for it. Even The Speaker blocked another vote on the deal, relying on laws from the 1600s.

                                    At which point exactly did she fail or under perform as PM? I’m not sure she did. Her party tried to get rid of her and instead it confirmed its confidence in her. Labour raised a motion of no confidence and she won that one too.

                                    All MPs wants their own version of Brexit and refuse to compromise. We have MPs voting against what their constituency want, based entirely on their own opinions.

                                    The people voted to leave and the government set a date. Parliament had other ideas and that’s why we are where we are. It’s not through a lack of trying.
                                    MP's are elected to act according their principles and conscience. As I've pointed out before, MPs are not our delegates. Parliament is sovereign. May has put the welfare of her party before the welfare of the nation. May is a liar who will not to acknowledge the truth. She set the redlines order to appease the far right of her party. May is a rubbish prime minister. People who voted to leave voted for different things; unlike those who voted to Remain.
                                    Last edited by Kpop; Wed March 20, 2019, 13:56.

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                                    • Originally posted by Kpop View Post
                                      MP's are elected to act according their principles. As I've pointed out before, MPs are not our delegates. Parliament is sovereign. May has put the welfare of her party before the welfare of the nation. May is a liar who will not to acknowledge the truth. She set the redlines order to appease the far right of her party. May is a rubbish prime minister. People who voted to leave voted for different things; unlike those who voted to Remain.
                                      An MP is our chosen representative in Parliament. They serve at their constituents pleasure.

                                      I am not a Tory supporter but by all means tell me what else May could have done to secure Brexit? I donít even know that she had put her party first, considering she refused to leave the top job and thereís a cabinet mutiny every other week.

                                      Trying to get the only deal through Parliament I think was in the countryís interest, especially if you consider everyone hating on a no-deal Brexit. The deal was the best on the table and weíve spat our dummy out and are now hoping something better comes along.

                                      It wonít. We will leave with this deal or no deal.
                                      I have a bad feeling about this.

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                                      • Politicians being politicians that's what it is.
                                        I think Mrs. May made a great job with what was given to her.
                                        The reality is that even brexit politicians don't want to leave and undermine any attempt that is being made.
                                        "Complaining is an advertisement for stupidity"

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                                        • Apparently, she only asked for a 2 month extension. And her explanation is she needs that time to get the same old deal passed she's been trying to get passed since last year - no changes, no election, no referendum. Hope we veto.

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                                          • But why would you veto? Since the UK is an EU member still and a NATO partner and neighbour in the future with strong economic and other ties with several EU members and the EU supposedly cares about the wellbeing of its members and neighbourhood, it should be in its interest to ensure as smooth a Brexit as possible instead of acting like it is something they couldn't be bothered less with... am I wrong?
                                            jio CHARTS NOW: 21/3/2023: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...5#post11132355

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                                            • She has 9 days left to get the deal passed, I don't see how extending that deadline by 2 months would help her with that..

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                                              • Originally posted by menime123 View Post
                                                An MP is our chosen representative in Parliament. They serve at their constituents pleasure.

                                                I am not a Tory supporter but by all means tell me what else May could have done to secure Brexit? I don’t even know that she had put her party first, considering she refused to leave the top job and there’s a cabinet mutiny every other week.

                                                Trying to get the only deal through Parliament I think was in the country’s interest, especially if you consider everyone hating on a no-deal Brexit. The deal was the best on the table and we’ve spat our dummy out and are now hoping something better comes along.

                                                It won’t. We will leave with this deal or no deal.
                                                Not having a plan before triggering article 50: big mistake.

                                                Setting her redlines which were inevitably going to clash with the Good Friday Agreement: another big mistake.

                                                Being in a state of denial about her rubbish withdrawal agreement whilst deliberately running down the clock: another big mistake.

                                                May should have engaged far more in cross party talks rather than turning to the ERG and DUP: another big mistake.

                                                Not being honest with the public about her withdrawal agreement, and failing to admit that if we leave the EU with her withdrawal agreement the UK will be worse off than the current deal we have as a member of the EU: another big mistake

                                                A parliamentary democracy means that MPs do what they think is best for their constituencies; not solely what their constituents want them to do

                                                May is incompetent, devious and dangerous
                                                Last edited by Kpop; Wed March 20, 2019, 14:59.

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                                                • Originally posted by jio View Post
                                                  But why would you veto? Since the UK is an EU member still and a NATO partner and neighbour in the future with strong economic and other ties with several EU members and the EU supposedly cares about the wellbeing of its members and neighbourhood, it should be in its interest to ensure as smooth a Brexit as possible instead of acting like it is something they couldn't be bothered less with... am I wrong?
                                                  And you think this is going smoothly? Do you think business on both sides aren't suffering from this? 2 more months to have the same result won't be good to any side.
                                                  "Complaining is an advertisement for stupidity"

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                                                  • Originally posted by AlphaMale View Post
                                                    And you think this is going smoothly? Do you think business on both sides aren't suffering from this? 2 more months to have the same result won't be good to any side.
                                                    It doesn't go smoothly because there is no intention for it to go smoothly. The intention is clearly (or obviously) for Brexit to be either cancelled or to be an enormous failure so that other members won't even think to attempt it. It is another exercise of power on the side of the EU similar to their attitude when Grexit was a possibility. As they did then they absolutely waste negotiating time with plans and proposals unlikely to be accepted on the other side and wait for reaching the very last moment when they can essentially blackmail because they hold the balance of power. And before someone says the usual (that Greece then or the UK now do not know how to negotiate or do not have a plan or "the EU cannot understand what they want") let me just say that it is totally illogical to think that the UK does not have workable and well thought-out positions for something that will affect it first and foremost. It is just not in the interest of the EU to work out a plan at this point
                                                    jio CHARTS NOW: 21/3/2023: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...5#post11132355

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