U.K. Politics: Gary Lineker v the BBC

[beredy]

You are wrong to think the UK is the weak part in this though

I can say the same for you to think UK isn't the weak part here. Agree to disagree. It's basically how UK functions right now. Get used to it.

[jio]

Agree to disagree is the way to stupidity man. Debate is the way to intelligence

[Artoo]

No deal? lol. Are you even aware of what that would mean for the country! That's worse than this mess we're in right now.

They need to either revoke and hold a general election or extended and hold another election until a leader who is capable of doing their job can negotiate the a stronger deal.

I have no idea why Theresa May would put herself through this kind of humiliation other than sheerly to hold on to the "power" which she doesn't appear to have much of at the moment.

The UK is an absolute mess. I never thought they would allow it to get so badly out of control it's a disgrace.

If we can’t agree on how to work with the EU or what our relationship should be, we need to eradicate the relationship and start anew. That means no-deal to me. Once we are in a position we all agree we don’t want to be (out of the EU with no deal) I think we can begin to unify and actually get some work done.

But I don’t think May is trying to hold onto power - I think she’s always known her time as PM would only be about exiting the EU. If she can get the deal through she might dig her heels in and try to prove herself when the actual work begins, but I doubt it.

Frankly I feel like she probably regrets going for party leader when she did, but has spent so long working on leaving the EU that she wants to see it through. But in terms of fixing the country afterwards? No, I think she’ll have had enough and quite happily retire at that point. I certainly don’t see her winning a 2nd leadership challenge in December 2019 anyway.

Ideally I’d like us to leave the EU then call a general election. Parliament needs a reshuffle before the real work on Brexit begins. I doubt anyone will win a majority, but I bet there’s some new faces after this mess.

[beredy]

Agree to disagree is the way to stupidity man. Debate is the way to intelligence

Yet, your way of debating whenever anyone here points that UK doesn't have it all together is to say that's not it - EU is evil, they're the problem. Basically you leave no option for any other conclusion on this topic other then agree to disagree. The same UK is doing with deal or no-deal. Seems like everybody wants a deal but when one comes along and they don't like it, then it's still a deal, just not THAT one and they don't want to go for no deal. By setting a date EU actually made it easier for the UK which seems stuck in a limbo they can't get themselves out of. Either you vote for the deal on the table, or you go out without a deal and we take it from there. The fact that EU is fine with both options just goes to show that only UK seems bothered how they exit and they're not willing to decide on that.

[jio]

====> menime
Assuming there is a no-deal Brexit and given (not assuming) that is in the benefit of both sides for the UK to have a closer than just WTO relationship with the EU, do you think that the UK's negotiating position will improve once Brexit is complete?

[beredy]

Assuming there is a no-deal Brexit and given (not assuming) that is in the benefit of both sides for the UK to have a closer than just WTO relationship with the EU, do you think that the UK's negotiating position will improve once Brexit is complete?

No. The companies who have been split between UK and other EU territories have already relocated and made necessary arrangements to continue getting the EU benefits, EU agencies have also been relocated. What will UK have to offer that won't be more easily served from some other EU member state? By not shaking hands with EU on mutually agreed upon deal, UK is making things harder for themselves in the future regarding their status with EU. The border in Ireland is the main thing EU will continue to insist upon and I don't see UK changing their stance on it. So any future deals after no-deal exit could be only much more harder.

[jio]

No. The companies who have been split between UK and other EU territories have already relocated and made necessary arrangements to continue getting the EU benefits, EU agencies have also been relocated. What will UK have to offer that won't be more easily served from some other EU member state? By not shaking hands with EU on mutually agreed upon deal, UK is making things harder for themselves in the future regarding their status with EU. The border in Ireland is the main thing EU will continue to insist upon and I don't see UK changing their stance on it. So any future deals after no-deal exit could be only much more harder.

I was asking menime but you posted while I was typing the question. Your response is not interesting to me on this one but it is on my other post which you refused to debate lol.

[Kpop]

If we can’t agree on how to work with the EU or what our relationship should be, we need to eradicate the relationship and start anew. That means no-deal to me. Once we are in a position we all agree we don’t want to be (out of the EU with no deal) I think we can begin to unify and actually get some work done.

But I don’t think May is trying to hold onto power - I think she’s always known her time as PM would only be about exiting the EU. If she can get the deal through she might dig her heels in and try to prove herself when the actual work begins, but I doubt it.

Frankly I feel like she probably regrets going for party leader when she did, but has spent so long working on leaving the EU that she wants to see it through. But in terms of fixing the country afterwards? No, I think she’ll have had enough and quite happily retire at that point. I certainly don’t see her winning a 2nd leadership challenge in December 2019 anyway.

Ideally I’d like us to leave the EU then call a general election. Parliament needs a reshuffle before the real work on Brexit begins. I doubt anyone will win a majority, but I bet there’s some new faces after this mess.

Of course May wants to hold onto power: I don't think she regrets going for PM. May is probably thinking about the book she's going to write when she eventually retires and the money she'll make from that. No deal is a wrecking deal. The best way is revoke article 50 now. That probably won't happen so bring it back to the people with a 2nd Ref.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-brexit-eu-deal-negotiations-philippe-lamberts-a8840541.html

[jio]

Hmm seems to me that a revoke will create more problems in the long run than a Brexit. But I can't say I see it as unlikely to happen.

[BeeBoy]

You are wrong to think the UK is the weak part in this though

Agree to disagree is the way to stupidity man. Debate is the way to intelligence

Those two things don't go together btw

[Artoo]

====> menime
Assuming there is a no-deal Brexit and given (not assuming) that is in the benefit of both sides for the UK to have a closer than just WTO relationship with the EU, do you think that the UK's negotiating position will improve once Brexit is complete?

Yes, by about €39 Billion reasons

[jio]

Those two things don't go together btw

Actually they do. I began a debate by expressing my disagreement with his statement before. But instead of continuing it, beredy closed it by saying "let's agree to disagree". Of course they go together.

[Artoo]

Of course May wants to hold onto power: I don't think she regrets going for PM. May is probably thinking about the book she's going to write when she eventually retires and the money she'll make from that. No deal is a wrecking deal. The best way is revoke article 50 now. That probably won't happen so bring it back to the people with a 2nd Ref.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-brexit-eu-deal-negotiations-philippe-lamberts-a8840541.html

Please re-read my comments instead of cherry picking the words for your own agenda.

[jio]

Yes, by about €39 Billion reasons

Now you lost me completely

[beredy]

Actually they do. I began a debate by expressing my disagreement with his statement before. But instead of continuing it, beredy closed it by saying "let's agree to disagree". Of course they go together.

I apologize for being tired of your: "UK is right, EU is wrong." stance. Neither is fully right or wrong, of course there can be certain additional cessions on both sides. But you're so intent on making it seem like the whole Union is suddenly in a war with UK, when the reality is the EU is tired of Brexit and wants to be done with it one way or another. 3 years have been enough and your own government dropped the ball with all its internal squabbles. UK politicians care more about what they will get out of Brexit and not what the country will get. The general sentiment is that the rest of EU frankly doesn't give a **** about Brexit, but the governing bodies care about keeping EU as strong as they possibly can and make the most for their member countries. Which is exactly as it should be. So now that UK is 1 vs 27 it acts like a child and cries "we can't get what we want, we won't vote for that!". And it's no wonder the media there is managing to sell it like it's EU's fail and not UK's own (as it is).

EDIT: You should be thankful for EU to force Brexit any way because UK government obviously can't deliver on their OWN promises to their OWN people. So EU will be the one to give the people what they voted for (UK leaving EU), not your government.

[Artoo]

Now you lost me completely

Well the UK have to pay £39bn (in what is effectively) a lump sum if the deal is agreed.

[BeeBoy]

Actually they do. I began a debate by expressing my disagreement with his statement before. But instead of continuing it, beredy closed it by saying "let's agree to disagree". Of course they go together.

If you said something different first than it's something else but if you simple state you are wrong that's not how you debate. Give arguments why you think someone's wrong.

[AlphaMale]

Please re-read my comments instead of cherry picking the words for your own agenda.

The Uk will still have to pay or you're be in default and that way it will be harder to get loans and to join the WTO as one big member of that organization is the EU

Don't kid yourself with the No Deal Brexit. If the UK leaves, it will always have to pay!

[jio]

If you said something different first than it's something else but if you simple state you are wrong that's not how you debate. Give arguments why you think someone's wrong.

To be completely honest I was expecting a "how so?" or something and then I would have answered and it would have gone from there... I was really trying to get into a conversation but didn't work at all. "Agree to disagree" is polite for "let's not talk" so I don't think it's fair to make it as if I was not interested to debate.

[jio]

I apologize for being tired of your: "UK is right, EU is wrong." stance. Neither is fully right or wrong, of course there can be certain additional cessions on both sides. But you're so intent on making it seem like the whole Union is suddenly in a war with UK, when the reality is the EU is tired of Brexit and wants to be done with it one way or another. 3 years have been enough and your own government dropped the ball with all its internal squabbles. UK politicians care more about what they will get out of Brexit and not what the country will get. The general sentiment is that the rest of EU frankly doesn't give a **** about Brexit, but the governing bodies care about keeping EU as strong as they possibly can and make the most for their member countries. Which is exactly as it should be. So now that UK is 1 vs 27 it acts like a child and cries "we can't get what we want, we won't vote for that!". And it's no wonder the media there is managing to sell it like it's EU's fail and not UK's own (as it is).

EDIT: You should be thankful for EU to force Brexit any way because UK government obviously can't deliver on their OWN promises to their OWN people. So EU will be the one to give the people what they voted for (UK leaving EU), not your government.

But your whole post makes it sound as if the UK is our enemy. Which was exactly the point I made before thank you

[beredy]

To be completely honest I was expecting a "how so?" or something and then I would have answered and it would have gone from there... I was really trying to get into a conversation but didn't work at all. "Agree to disagree" is polite for "let's not talk" so I don't think it's fair to make it as if I was not interested to debate.

Why would you think that you having stated something without any explanation is actually somehow moving forward the conversation? Just because you expect someone to ask you to clarify and explain that? LOL. That's not how you lead a conversation. I just cut the loses because it seemed you weren't wiling to actually debate something, just repeatedly state your stand of "bow down to UK, because you're wrong EU".

[jio]

The Uk will still have to pay or you're be in default and that way it will be harder to get loans and to join the WTO as one big member of that organization is the EU

Don't kid yourself with the No Deal Brexit. If the UK leaves, it will always have to pay!

Sure but would it be more or less than what we have to pay?

[beredy]

But your whole post makes it sound as if the UK is our enemy. Which was exactly the point I made before thank you

Your politicians are currently your only enemy. They hold the whole UK a hostage to EU and the people of UK because they haven't been able to work out the deal in 3 years.

[jio]

Why would you think that you having stated something without any explanation is actually somehow moving forward the conversation? Just because you expect someone to ask you to clarify and explain that? LOL. That's not how you lead a conversation. I just cut the loses because it seemed you weren't wiling to actually debate something, just repeatedly state your stand of "bow down to UK, because you're wrong EU".

Because in a debate you need two disagreeing parties that state opposing opinions who are willing to exchange ideas. I provided the second party. But there was no will to exchange ideas on your part. After all this time and you still didn't ask why I think the UK is not the weak party in this.

[Artoo]