U.K. Politics: Gary Lineker v the BBC

[Wayne]

The vote against a no deal Brexit has passed.

They are now voting on a general election FFS.

[heppolo]

Snap general election vote flopped

[heppolo]

[jio]

The law that prevents a no-deal Brexit is the worst thing they could have voted IMO. Irrespective of who is in the government, it just strips the UK of any negotiating power it may have had. Now theoretically the EU could either force whatever deal they want on them or leave them forever in limbo (which will not do much for the UK economy). I am really shocked by that vote...

[heppolo]

^essentially most of MPs think it's better to block BoJo from any potential negotiation, and make Brexit look as unrealistic as possible for the general public so that the support for Brexit eventually dwindles towards a clear minority.

[jio]

I get that... but that raises about a million questions about the place of democracy within the European Union... it's really sad

[Thriller]

Democracy is dead.

[stevyy]

I get that... but that raises about a million questions about the place of democracy within the European Union... it's really sad

huh? Uschi is going to salvage everything.

[shinydiscopaul]

I can't believe the UK's politics is in such a mess, its been years of absolute chaos. They all need to resign and admit they are absolutely terrible at this.

Realistically, at this point - they need to cancel Brexit both big parties need completely overhauled and an election to take place, and then referendum again. It's beyond repair at this point. I'm genuinely scared at the uk's future.

[clh_hilary]

I would've voted for Boris Johnson had I maintained my membership, but this indeed isn't a good look. He hasn't been able to do anything, I wish he could just have the guts to not only say "do or die" for a 31 October Brexit, but that the EU is only going with Theresa May's deal, and so we can just speed up the ineivtability of that deal being finally accepted by the Commons.

I expect May's deal to be resurrected and passed in the end, after further chaos, and possibly another extention. The best deal I can see is one that has a border in the Irish Sea. If China can claim Hong Kong and Macau as its own, I don't why an autonomous Northern Ireland could not work. But May making a mess of her snap election made it impossible to do anything the unionists would not like.

[heppolo]

I get that... but that raises about a million questions about the place of democracy within the European Union... it's really sad

well, is there a place for democracy in the modern times? especially in such a controlled and manipulated media environment.

[heppolo]

I would've voted for Boris Johnson had I maintained my membership, but this indeed isn't a good look. He hasn't been able to do anything

How ironic that BoJo PM position has been the result of deep divisions within the Conservative Party, yet because of this kaleidoscopic situation BoJo is simply unable to achieve any progress for better or worse.

[Kpop]

I can't believe the UK's politics is in such a mess, its been years of absolute chaos. They all need to resign and admit they are absolutely terrible at this.

Realistically, at this point - they need to cancel Brexit both big parties need completely overhauled and an election to take place, and then referendum again. It's beyond repair at this point. I'm genuinely scared at the uk's future.

As far as Brexit is concerned, I think an actual referendum should come first rather than a de facto referendum which is what a G.E would be. The problem with a general election is it also includes too many other policies like NHS, taxes,education, defence, policing, welfare and so on.

With a (basically) single issue election: a referendum. The options could be Remain or Bojo's deal (whatever that will be). Also make the referendum legally binding, unlike the last one which was only advisory.

Then after Brexit has been finally been decided we can have a G.E. May tried to sort Brexit out with a G.E in 2017 and look where it got us: a minority government relying on the D.U.P. There could be another hung Parliament again.

It's also fairer, for example, on Conservative and Labour voters as each party has both Leavers and Remainers to let them decide via a referendum.

[jio]

well, is there a place for democracy in the modern times? especially in such a controlled and manipulated media environment.

That's so true... media decide who we are going to like and who not (politically) without even giving them the benefit of the doubt. I could name some examples but it is beyond the point.

From a legal point of view there are several ways forward, most of each would annul the previous referendum (such as a new referendum). Ethically however there is no way that the UK could remain in the EU without hurting its democratic traditions. The will of the people was expressed freely and fairly once (yes, one could argue that politicians lied but show me when they don't lie? that means nothing) and since then we had a premier who was supposedly trying to achieve Brexit while never believing in it and now a parliament which is supposedly trying to achieve a Brexit with a deal when they clearly believe that there should be no Brexit at all. If another referendum does take place and Brexit is rejected, then the real question would be how much of the shift in votes was due to people essentially being blackmailed by the anti-Brexit rhetoric of post-Brexit doom (unproven) thus making the second decision one taken under distress plus the question of why the next referendum should be binding and not just attempt to overturn it again since that would have happened to the first one. Tough questions...

[Kpop]

That's so true... media decide who we are going to like and who not (politically) without even giving them the benefit of the doubt. I could name some examples but it is beyond the point.

From a legal point of view there are several ways forward, most of each would annul the previous referendum (such as a new referendum). Ethically however there is no way that the UK could remain in the EU without hurting its democratic traditions. The will of the people was expressed freely and fairly once (yes, one could argue that politicians lied but show me when they don't lie? that means nothing) and since then we had a premier who was supposedly trying to achieve Brexit while never believing in it and now a parliament which is supposedly trying to achieve a Brexit with a deal when they clearly believe that there should be no Brexit at all. If another referendum does take place and Brexit is rejected, then the real question would be how much of the shift in votes was due to people essentially being blackmailed by the anti-Brexit rhetoric of post-Brexit doom (unproven) thus making the second decision one taken under distress plus the question of why the next referendum should be binding and not just attempt to overturn it again since that would have happened to the first one. Tough questions...

If Parliament clearly believe that there should be no Brexit at all then why did it vote 498 votes to 114 in favour of triggering Article 50?

You don't know if the will of the people was expressed freely and fairly as your opinion is based on an EU referendum corruptly won. If the referendum had been legally binding then a judge could have made the result null and void. However, since the the referendum was only advisory the result cannot legally be overturned by the courts.

[jio]

What exactly makes it "corruptly" won?

[clh_hilary]

How ironic that BoJo PM position has been the result of deep divisions within the Conservative Party, yet because of this kaleidoscopic situation BoJo is simply unable to achieve any progress for better or worse.

The division is mostly within the parliamentary party, though. Party members love BoJo, and he's still leading the polls by 3-14 points.

As things stand, I think BoJo will resign next month, Damien Rabb will be the "temporary" PM (and Oxford's 29th PM) to request for an extention from the EU. Then he'll probably be elected party leader and eventually, everyone will finally agree to take Theresa May's deal. Then a general election with another hung parliament.

[clh_hilary]

That's so true... media decide who we are going to like and who not (politically) without even giving them the benefit of the doubt. I could name some examples but it is beyond the point.

From a legal point of view there are several ways forward, most of each would annul the previous referendum (such as a new referendum). Ethically however there is no way that the UK could remain in the EU without hurting its democratic traditions. The will of the people was expressed freely and fairly once (yes, one could argue that politicians lied but show me when they don't lie? that means nothing) and since then we had a premier who was supposedly trying to achieve Brexit while never believing in it and now a parliament which is supposedly trying to achieve a Brexit with a deal when they clearly believe that there should be no Brexit at all. If another referendum does take place and Brexit is rejected, then the real question would be how much of the shift in votes was due to people essentially being blackmailed by the anti-Brexit rhetoric of post-Brexit doom (unproven) thus making the second decision one taken under distress plus the question of why the next referendum should be binding and not just attempt to overturn it again since that would have happened to the first one. Tough questions...

I'm not saying there should be a second referendum, but if the choices on the second referendum are 1. take May's deal; or 2. no deal, then it's not going to harm the integrity of the first one.

That'd also avoid people asking for a third referendum on the basis of a second referendum being held. Though the optics would be bad.

I believe the best way to deal with it democratically would be to have a general election, although I believe with a GE there should also be an extension.

[Kpop]

What exactly makes it "corruptly" won?

Vote Leave was fined £61,000 after the electoral watchdog ruled that it broke electoral law.

But was not possible to overturn the referendum result because the referendum was only advisory. Had the result been legally binding it would have been quashed.

[Kpop]

It seems BoJo lied to the Queen

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9100206.html

[heppolo]

It seems BoJo lied to the Queen

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9100206.html

BoJo casual speeches are so pompous and overblown with hyperbole, the man himself might not completely understand what he is talking about (especially if he was trying to impress the Queen), so ...

[Shadowplay]

ROTFL... Groundhog Day..,

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...23948260983946

[Kpop]

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019...rules-prorogue

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...a9117696.html#

Well done to the eleven Supreme Court Judges who have unanimously ruled that our deceitful Prime Minister unlawfully shutdown Partliament

[beredy]

I hope EU kicks UK without a deal and finishes this saga. I never thought UK politics would ever turn into a bunch of headless chickens running around. Quite an amazing feat.

[Rihab]

Time to reopen parliament, then resign.