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  • Blondini
    replied
    posting error

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  • Blondini
    replied
    Originally posted by Wayne
    I like the FPTP system - it keeps the likes of UKIP and the BNP out of power.

    A proportionate, popular voting system would spell doom for the UK.
    You would say that, you're a Tory. The BNP are practically non-existent now, UKIP are a laughing stock after Farage - Suzanne Evans is even worse an example of a leader than him. There can't be a third "racist, homophobic, etc" party ready to take over.

    And this constant reasoning of "the public voted for it therefore they can't complain" is really short-sighted and patronising. Not all of the public thinks the same way - that was then, this is now. Where there as many active anti-government protests then? No. Today's protests are the start of the fightback. The election result was more to with running scared from a Scotland split than preference for Conservatives.

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  • ShayLaB
    replied
    Originally posted by Blondini
    Originally posted by ShayLaB
    Nobody can really complain about the electoral system.

    There was a referendum on A.V. a while back and the public decided they wanted to keep an electoral system that was likely to generate a parliamentary majority. So yeah, we can grumble but it is our own fault and if we didn't vote for it back then, then we can't really complain if it worked exactly as we wanted.
    Bolded

    People are more informed now. The upsurge for UKIP and Greens proves they won't stand for it.

    Also - i said there'd be more anti government / anti-tory protests. There's been some today, in fact.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/an ... es-5670515
    I am not even going to read that...its in the Daily Mirror...you may as well have posted a link to Socialist Worker. Of course it will be anti Conservative.

    We are more informed now??!? .That's nonsense. There were weeks of dicsussion on TV, radio and press in the lead up to the referendum. The only people that were not informed were either deliberately avoiding the debate or living under a rock. Yeah...the Greens and UKIP suffered this time but it has always been thus...smaller parties with broad but shallow support get less votes than in a PR system.

    FPTP vs PR
    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32601281

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  • Wayne
    replied
    I like the FPTP system - it keeps the likes of UKIP and the BNP out of power.

    A proportionate, popular voting system would spell doom for the UK.

    Leave a comment:


  • ShayLaB
    replied
    Originally posted by Graham76man
    Originally posted by ShayLaB

    Nobody can really complain about the electoral system.
    The only parties that are not complaining are the Torry and Labour Parties, because it gives them massive majorities on only a small percentage of the vote. :x
    However the tide is turning. And will continue to do so after this election result. I saw trade unionists talking about the result and they were appalled that this election had once given power to a Torry Government to do all the thing that Tony outlined above. They expressed concern that the first past the post system isn't working and that they will be pressing for the change to it.
    If a conservative can get elected by having 423 more votes than the second place candidate, as what happened in Leeds, then the election system is screwed up and everyone should complain about it. :evil: :evil:

    I repeat this Government doesn't represent the PEOPLE and no Government will till it has 51% or over of the British Public vote. That's called democracy and at present we don't have it. This Country is NOT a democratic Country. Get that into your heads!
    ...except the people were asked what type of electoral system they wanted and this is what they chose. Some parties get under represented, some over represented...but that is the electoral system we voted for.

    You can't claim the public is being disenfranchised or it is undemocratic when we (democratically) voted for this system in a referendum that gave us two very explicit choices. For goodness sakes...this is the first election since that referendum. You may think it is unfair or distorting but the majority of people wanted it. This election result is the manifestation of our democratic expression of will.

    Don't forget that it was the Conservative party that was part of the government that offered gave us the referendum. Yeah...it may have been the Liberals policy but the Tories were willing to put it to the country to vote upon. They may have campaigned against it but we were given the choice.

    I don't like the FPTP system and I voted against it but I don't see how we have any grounds for complaint.

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  • Blondini
    replied
    Originally posted by ShayLaB
    Nobody can really complain about the electoral system.

    There was a referendum on A.V. a while back and the public decided they wanted to keep an electoral system that was likely to generate a parliamentary majority. So yeah, we can grumble but it is our own fault and if we didn't vote for it back then, then we can't really complain if it worked exactly as we wanted.
    Bolded

    People are more informed now. The upsurge for UKIP and Greens proves they won't stand for it.

    Also - i said there'd be more anti government / anti-tory protests. There's been some today, in fact.

    http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/an ... es-5670515

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by ShayLaB

    Nobody can really complain about the electoral system.
    The only parties that are not complaining are the Torry and Labour Parties, because it gives them massive majorities on only a small percentage of the vote. :x
    However the tide is turning. And will continue to do so after this election result. I saw trade unionists talking about the result and they were appalled that this election had once given power to a Torry Government to do all the thing that Tony outlined above. They expressed concern that the first past the post system isn't working and that they will be pressing for the change to it.
    If a conservative can get elected by having 423 more votes than the second place candidate, as what happened in Leeds, then the election system is screwed up and everyone should complain about it. :evil: :evil:

    I repeat this Government doesn't represent the PEOPLE and no Government will till it has 51% or over of the British Public vote. That's called democracy and at present we don't have it. This Country is NOT a democratic Country. Get that into your heads!

    Leave a comment:


  • ShayLaB
    replied
    Originally posted by Graham76man
    Originally posted by Blondini
    Originally posted by Graham76man
    My sources tell me that this Torry Government will last under two years and after that they will struggle to get back in
    It's a kind of prediction
    We know about some of your "sources", Graham. REALly reliable. It's Tories, BTW. Know your enemy.

    There's been other people saying as such, anyway. I can see real public dissent happening, more protests than ever. 12 billion more welfare cuts, folks. The rich get richer, poorer get poorer, the victimisation of the unemployed, disabled, the mentally ill and pregnant single mothers continues.
    You don't know about my sources. There's a great deal I have not explained and I am never going to say about them. Plus things about myself and people that would surprise people if they knew and be shocked too.
    I have not said anything about what might cause the prediction to come true and it's a waste of time guessing. That's due to the fact that most people don't understand how history works. Most people follow the straight line effects. Such as horse - car - plane when thinking about say the future of transport for example with the next step being spacecraft in the sequence. But this approach is all wrong. History and the Future don't go in straight lines.

    This election has proved something that anyone who uses samples to predict the outcome in a poll of any kind will be wrong in the conclusion when it comes to the result. I don't see the Official Charts being any different in the way it produces a chart that suppose to reflect the UK public buying of records. After all it user a thing called the "defined universe" which is the same as the opinion polls of this election. Lets not forget too that in the past these polls were run by Gallup who used to the charts and Millward Brown are no different to them.
    Think on that before you scoff at the Real Charts my ladd
    There was a guy on Sky News a short while ago from a pollster company who said that they conducted a survey the day before the election that had a result that was closer to the actual outcome than any that came before, They thought that, being so out of kilter with all previous polls, that it was an outlier and should be ignored.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by Blondini
    Originally posted by Graham76man
    My sources tell me that this Torry Government will last under two years and after that they will struggle to get back in
    It's a kind of prediction
    We know about some of your "sources", Graham. REALly reliable. It's Tories, BTW. Know your enemy.

    There's been other people saying as such, anyway. I can see real public dissent happening, more protests than ever. 12 billion more welfare cuts, folks. The rich get richer, poorer get poorer, the victimisation of the unemployed, disabled, the mentally ill and pregnant single mothers continues.
    You don't know about my sources. There's a great deal I have not explained and I am never going to say about them. Plus things about myself and people that would surprise people if they knew and be shocked too.
    I have not said anything about what might cause the prediction to come true and it's a waste of time guessing. That's due to the fact that most people don't understand how history works. Most people follow the straight line effects. Such as horse - car - plane when thinking about say the future of transport for example with the next step being spacecraft in the sequence. But this approach is all wrong. History and the Future don't go in straight lines.

    This election has proved something that anyone who uses samples to predict the outcome in a poll of any kind will be wrong in the conclusion when it comes to the result. I don't see the Official Charts being any different in the way it produces a chart that suppose to reflect the UK public buying of records. After all it user a thing called the "defined universe" which is the same as the opinion polls of this election. Lets not forget too that in the past these polls were run by Gallup who used to the charts and Millward Brown are no different to them.
    Think on that before you scoff at the Real Charts my ladd

    Leave a comment:


  • ShayLaB
    replied
    Originally posted by Graham76man
    Originally posted by roeleek
    C'est ridicule! The NHS needs to be cut but to do that we need proper regulation on 1) poisonous elements in our foods 2)alcohol & Drugs abuse 3) Stopping people being lazy 4) Workers stealing from NHS stock 5) More junior doctors and nurses so that in the next few years we can fire more expensive ones for the cheaper/younger ones and finally 6) get rid of patents and switch low cost versions of some medicines.

    With things like diabetes and hiv (unless its inherited from parents) avoidance can save multimillions in the long run! Safer sex, more testing/ more people being treated for it would lead to new cases going down. In terms of diabetes. unless its heridetary you can easily avoid getting diabetes by controlling diet. Its ridiculous that so many people are stupid enough poison themselves so easily.
    This thread is turning somewhat into debates not on the election and it's result, but on issues. The above being an example of a thread that could be started on this section of the Forum on the NHS. Perhaps roeleek should start it with that opinion. Suggested title "The Future of the NHS".

    The only thing left to debate on this thread is why is it possible that a party with only 37% of the vote gets to dictate it's policies to two thirds of the country.
    Another name for this new Government is simply "The Bullies". For if it was a group of ordinary people that's what we would call them
    Nobody can really complain about the electoral system.

    There was a referendum on A.V. a while back and the public decided they wanted to keep an electoral system that was likely to generate a parliamentary majority. So yeah, we can grumble but it is our own fault and if we didn't vote for it back then, then we can't really complain if it worked exactly as we wanted.

    Leave a comment:


  • Yoshie
    replied
    Originally posted by Brad
    I think it's delusional to think this country will prosper under a Tory government so I'll bookmark this.
    It is, and hopefully next time around Britain will be more politically educated and the country's decline will be steep enough for the nation to realise they need to make a better decision in the future.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blondini
    replied
    ^
    Al Murray at Thanet South count - speech



    Ken Barlow
    ?@I_am_KenBarlow
    #ThanetRigged I think @almurray knows more than he's saying....

    Leave a comment:


  • Blondini
    replied
    Originally posted by Graham76man
    My sources tell me that this Torry Government will last under two years and after that they will struggle to get back in
    It's a kind of prediction
    We know about some of your "sources", Graham. REALly reliable. It's Tories, BTW. Know your enemy.

    There's been other people saying as such, anyway. I can see real public dissent happening, more protests than ever. 12 billion more welfare cuts, folks. The rich get richer, poorer get poorer, the victimisation of the unemployed, disabled, the mentally ill and pregnant single mothers continues.


    Originally posted by Blondini
    Greens have done well, though so i'm glad of that (nice to see them joint second here, too! ). And my local Stockton North denied our ridiculous ABBA murdering singing witch UKIP candidate her expected second place . I suspect there were substantial spoiled ballots by denied Greens like me that contributed to the difference.
    It seems i may have done our leader (i officially joined the Greens on Friday morning having waited for finance to clear) a disservice by suspecting her third place means she'll stand down - her result was a "record" personal total according to Party emails. That roasting she got on Channel Four by Mitchell and Paxman was horrendous. One bad interview and they never let you forget.

    Secondly, that unbelievably dense UKIP woman Mandy Boylett was also ridiculed on Gogglebox this week after a report where she "stated the obvious" about Stockton-on-Tees town (which was used as an example of extreme poverty yet again).

    Originally posted by UKMusicLova

    UKIP are going to be really pushing for electoral reform, with the huge number of votes they had. I see where they are coming from I guess because between them and Greens they had 5 million voters but 2 seats between them. Still on this occassion, I'm glad because otherwise we'd have had much more horrid UKIP MPs
    This. The battle for Greens is to convince people THEY are the alternative. I hope Farage being deposed signals the downfall of the party. You saw how fast the BNP disappeared recently...

    Al Murray The Pub Landlord (FUKP) got 318 votes in the Thanet South region! His "mockumentary" (which has a repeat tonight on Dave with the result added) was great. Bez's We Are The Reality Party got 126. Bez didn't stand in his constituency in the end but Nigel Askew did here (in a "battle of the Nigels") - he had the cheek to take Murray to task for treating the election as a joke - no, he was making a serious satirical point. Farage is a joke and not a funny one.

    Leave a comment:


  • roeleek
    replied
    Originally posted by Graham76man
    Originally posted by roeleek
    C'est ridicule! The NHS needs to be cut but to do that we need proper regulation on 1) poisonous elements in our foods 2)alcohol & Drugs abuse 3) Stopping people being lazy 4) Workers stealing from NHS stock 5) More junior doctors and nurses so that in the next few years we can fire more expensive ones for the cheaper/younger ones and finally 6) get rid of patents and switch low cost versions of some medicines.

    With things like diabetes and hiv (unless its inherited from parents) avoidance can save multimillions in the long run! Safer sex, more testing/ more people being treated for it would lead to new cases going down. In terms of diabetes. unless its heridetary you can easily avoid getting diabetes by controlling diet. Its ridiculous that so many people are stupid enough poison themselves so easily.
    This thread is turning somewhat into debates not on the election and it's result, but on issues. The above being an example of a thread that could be started on this section of the Forum on the NHS. Perhaps roeleek should start it with that opinion. Suggested title "The Future of the NHS".

    The only thing left to debate on this thread is why is it possible that a party with only 37% of the vote gets to dictate it's policies to two thirds of the country.
    Another name for this new Government is simply "The Bullies". For if it was a group of ordinary people that's what we would call them
    Its how the first past the vote system works. otherwise we would have election on election coalitions.

    Leave a comment:


  • Graham76man
    replied
    Originally posted by roeleek
    C'est ridicule! The NHS needs to be cut but to do that we need proper regulation on 1) poisonous elements in our foods 2)alcohol & Drugs abuse 3) Stopping people being lazy 4) Workers stealing from NHS stock 5) More junior doctors and nurses so that in the next few years we can fire more expensive ones for the cheaper/younger ones and finally 6) get rid of patents and switch low cost versions of some medicines.

    With things like diabetes and hiv (unless its inherited from parents) avoidance can save multimillions in the long run! Safer sex, more testing/ more people being treated for it would lead to new cases going down. In terms of diabetes. unless its heridetary you can easily avoid getting diabetes by controlling diet. Its ridiculous that so many people are stupid enough poison themselves so easily.
    This thread is turning somewhat into debates not on the election and it's result, but on issues. The above being an example of a thread that could be started on this section of the Forum on the NHS. Perhaps roeleek should start it with that opinion. Suggested title "The Future of the NHS".

    The only thing left to debate on this thread is why is it possible that a party with only 37% of the vote gets to dictate it's policies to two thirds of the country.
    Another name for this new Government is simply "The Bullies". For if it was a group of ordinary people that's what we would call them

    Leave a comment:


  • ShayLaB
    replied
    I suspect the Tories will make a mess of their insidious plans to dismantle the NHS.

    There have been 40 years of Tory govt since the NHS was created and it is still a national treasure.

    It's either incompetence or they are taking their sweet flippin' time about it.

    Leave a comment:


  • roeleek
    replied
    C'est ridicule! The NHS needs to be cut but to do that we need proper regulation on 1) poisonous elements in our foods 2)alcohol & Drugs abuse 3) Stopping people being lazy 4) Workers stealing from NHS stock 5) More junior doctors and nurses so that in the next few years we can fire more expensive ones for the cheaper/younger ones and finally 6) get rid of patents and switch low cost versions of some medicines.

    With things like diabetes and hiv (unless its inherited from parents) avoidance can save multimillions in the long run! Safer sex, more testing/ more people being treated for it would lead to new cases going down. In terms of diabetes. unless its heridetary you can easily avoid getting diabetes by controlling diet. Its ridiculous that so many people are stupid enough poison themselves so easily.

    Leave a comment:


  • HA3
    replied
    I'm gakd we got a tory majority and not a coalition as I think a coalition can hold back a government. To say that we'll be worst off under a tory goverment I think is unfair considering that both said they were going to makes cuts all labour said wasn't it wasn't going to be as deep, ed miliband also said that he would be the first labour prime minister not to increase spending so it's not like labour would be completely different. Plus when it comes to the nhs labour wouldn't pledge the extra money it, supposedly needs, unlike the rest, and it's not like it worked that well in the 13 years under labour anymore than it did under the last government. If the tories plan works then yes the 2 years the will be deep cutsand it will be difficult but then they should be able to have got rid of the deficit and then the next 3 years will be about improving the country for everyone.

    on Europe I feel it's important the question is asked whether you want to say or not, there seems to be the majority of the country talking aboutit and I think it fair for us to be ask so we can put it to bed and move whether that be leaving Europe or staying.

    Leave a comment:


  • AceReject
    replied
    Originally posted by Marius
    Originally posted by Airwrecka
    Originally posted by UKMusicLova
    I'm definitely happier with a Tories government over a Labour one (especially one lead by Milliband). However I was hoping for Lib Dems presence still to keep David Cameron in check...but this has happened before across Europe where the smaller part of a coalition government is wiped out.
    I didn't know that; although it's not really something I'd thought of, to be honest. Do you know of any examples? I would be interested to read a bit more.
    The FDP in Germany is the first example that comes to mind. From being the CDU partner in a coalition to not making the threshold for entering the Bundestag (5% i think) in one electoral cycle.
    Ah yes, that vaguely rings a bell now that you mention it. Thank you!

    Leave a comment:


  • Marius
    replied
    Originally posted by Madgefan

    The country prosper? I doubt it. The rich elite prosper ...absolutely !
    So annoying to hear this communist nonsense. Most people would be better off under Tories; for example, I will gain a lot from reduced taxes and welfare yet i am not rich at all: i do not own a house, don't even have a car, don't have huge savings etc. Anyone who owns a home in London, even a studio is richer than me in terms of wealth (assuming that the flat is fully paid off).

    Leave a comment:


  • Marius
    replied
    Originally posted by Serby
    I know there's lot more to ti, but for me, EU means visa-free travel within it and euro, but UK is neither of those. It always felt like you guys aren't part of it.
    EU does certainly not mean euro, 9 of the 28 countries don't have it. Most are supposed to eventually join it but given what is happening in Greece, the enthusiasm is waning fast.

    For visas, yes, i agree and it pisses me off too (i don't need a visa since i am an EU citizen, but travelling with an Eastern European passport subjects me to idiotic questions from customs officials, questions that Brits / French / Germans etc don't get).

    Leave a comment:


  • ShayLaB
    replied
    Originally posted by UKMusicLova
    I'm definitely happier with a Tories government over a Labour one (especially one lead by Milliband). However I was hoping for Lib Dems presence still to keep David Cameron in check...but this has happened before across Europe where the smaller part of a coalition government is wiped out.

    UKIP are going to be really pushing for electoral reform, with the huge number of votes they had. I see where they are coming from I guess because between them and Greens they had 5 million voters but 2 seats between them. Still on this occassion, I'm glad because otherwise we'd have had much more horrid UKIP MPs

    SNPs - what a night for them! Almost wiped out the Westminster institutions out of Scotland. Disappointingly for them, they won't have a great deal of power now there is a Tories majority. Still might benefit them in the long run....

    It will definitely be a rocky road for the Tories though with such a small majority. It is not uncommon for them for their MPs to jump ship, not to mention their opinionated back benchers. David Cameron might need to keep the DUPs very close by
    Re: UKIP and electoral reform...they can push all they want but there was a referendum only four years ago and it was rejected.

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-13297573

    Leave a comment:


  • ShayLaB
    replied
    Originally posted by Madgefan
    Originally posted by Brad
    Originally posted by Wayne
    the country will prosper under a Conservative government.
    I think it's delusional to think this country will prosper under a Tory government so I'll bookmark this.
    The country prosper? I doubt it. The rich elite prosper ...absolutely !
    Cameron could be looking at being the last PM of the UK and also the PM that took us out of the EU ..... not what I would call the country 'prospering'.
    Not quite...the British voting public will take us out of Europe...not David Cameron. What he is offering is reasonable given the way that the EU has such an impact on the running of the country.

    Leave a comment:


  • Serby
    replied
    I know there's lot more to ti, but for me, EU means visa-free travel within it and euro, but UK is neither of those. It always felt like you guys aren't part of it.

    Leave a comment:


  • Madgefan
    replied
    Originally posted by Brad
    Originally posted by Wayne
    the country will prosper under a Conservative government.
    I think it's delusional to think this country will prosper under a Tory government so I'll bookmark this.
    The country prosper? I doubt it. The rich elite prosper ...absolutely !
    Cameron could be looking at being the last PM of the UK and also the PM that took us out of the EU ..... not what I would call the country 'prospering'.

    Leave a comment:

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