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  • Originally posted by jio
    Mmm I would strongly question that. What you have in the US and Latin America is indeed what you describe- deep dissatisfaction of politics as usual and choosing an alternative road. In the EU that's not what you have. In the EU what you have is inability to choose an alternative road by voting alone so extra actions are needed-hence Brexit and whatever exits both the far right and the far left are advocating. The EU is generally seen as changing the will of the people thus hurting democracy for the benefit of a small number of nations and that is not similar to anything that might be happening in the US or Latin America.
    You would be surprised but marginal left and far right advocated for the U.S. to pull out of NAFTA which was one of Trump's selling points, by the way.

    Originally posted by eurobarometer
    At European level the majority of respondents up to 64 years of age find that their voice counts in the EU. Conversely, people aged of 65 or more, obviously the retired respondents, are likely to believe that their voice does not count in the EU.
    Full article: http://www.europarl.europa.eu/at-your-s ... report.pdf
    So the most dissatisfied groups probably do want to take their countries back to 1950s after all, longing not just for the corporate-controlled neocolonialism that we have at the moment but for proper colonialism as a source of decent living standards in those European countries.
    Waffles are checked cookies

    Comment


    • Actually the number in that research is 48%. And the Eurobarometer is just a statistical service (which tends to always come up with data supportive of the EU. I mean you should give a look at their questionnaire if you haven't already). However if we look at every election (where voters keep dropping) and every election results (where pro-EU parties are steadily being punished) across most of the EU one could argue that either the Eurobarometer is missing something or that nobody told all those satisfied citizens there are elections happening every now and then lol.
      jio CHARTS NOW: 13/9/2022: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...1#post10979401

      Comment


      • Originally posted by jio
        Actually the number in that research is 48%. And the Eurobarometer is just a statistical service (which tends to always come up with data supportive of the EU. I mean you should give a look at their questionnaire if you haven't already). However if we look at every election (where voters keep dropping) and every election results (where pro-EU parties are steadily being punished) across most of the EU one could argue that either the Eurobarometer is missing something or that nobody told all those satisfied citizens there are elections happening every now and then lol.
        For like 4 years in a row (2013-2017), Eurobarometer results were actually anti-EU despite the questionnaire, more people were dissatisfied with EU but Brexit provided a shift in this dynamic.
        And if we dig deeper, there is always a whole chunk of apolitical electorate with no particular views on anything in the UK as well, ever since 20% failed to show up for the ''once in a lifetime'' referendum. I guess, they were not motivated enough to change anything, but we can only speculate.
        Waffles are checked cookies

        Comment


        • Well I doubt Brexit causing a shift in continental public opinion on the EU. It's more likely that other factors affected the shifts you describe (such as better economies and the easing of the refugee crisis). That however does not mean that the Eurobarometer is accurate or that the EU itself is not in crisis anymore. Brexit is not an isolated incident it is just another episode on the ongoing EU crisis IMO.
          jio CHARTS NOW: 13/9/2022: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...1#post10979401

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Wayne
            Originally posted by stevyy
            watching these 2 videos really riled me up. How can an entire nation be so brain-washed when they were able to withstand brain washing for the last 2000 years? Were there really no sane people out there who proved the pro Brexit ppl wrong? Why has the whole "fake news" slur become so popular in an educated European country?
            Not everyone that disagrees with your point of view is brainwashed.
            I'm not saying that. All I am saying is that the UK suported 95% of all EU laws since 1999... that is a fact. How can some politicians - or the majority today - speak against it, misrepresent it in their narrative and not be called out for it? The Bank of England and many other institutions procalimed that Brexit would not benefit the middle class or low-income population. Why would people not look deeper into things and just vote on the basis of a gut feeling which only came about through lies?
            My Chart

            Comment


            • Re: UK Politics: Brexit plan rejected; confidence vote table

              Maybe because those politicians and institutions you mention are generally discredited in the eyes of the people?

              Moreover I seriously doubt that politicians and institutions don't "lie". I mean come on now...
              jio CHARTS NOW: 13/9/2022: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...1#post10979401

              Comment


              • Originally posted by jio
                Brexit is not an isolated incident it is just another episode on the ongoing EU crisis IMO.
                It surely isn't, I think Italy and Greece would have voted out of the EU given the chance.

                [youtube:3qlx3ymc]TAz5ocvAn0U[/youtube:3qlx3ymc]
                Waffles are checked cookies

                Comment


                • Re: UK Politics: Brexit plan rejected; confidence vote table

                  Possibly many others too. When was the last time the EU won a referendum somewhere? lol
                  jio CHARTS NOW: 13/9/2022: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...1#post10979401

                  Comment


                  • The confidence vote is due to take place in 15 mins.

                    May is expected to pass, the House is apparently nowhere near full - so there's an absence of drama!

                    Comment


                    • Theresa May - No Confidence Vote

                      Ayes (no confidence): 306
                      Noes (confidence): 325

                      She wins.

                      Comment


                      • Re: UK Politics: Theresa May wins confidence vote (325-306)

                        That was quite close.
                        5.05.2009 / 6.22.2011 / 4.24.2013 / 4.25.2013 / 3.1.2014 / 9.13.2014 / 7.21.2016 / 7.14.2018 / 7.15.2018

                        Comment


                        • So basically many Tories voted against her yesterday and supported her today, just to avoid elections.
                          Coherent and democratic indeed.
                          "Despair, regret, and tenderness is what I feel for you"

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by KEY9481
                            That was quite close.
                            What makes it worse is that if the DUP’s 10 politicians had voted against her, she’d have lost the confidence vote by 1 vote.

                            2 of her own MPs either didn’t turn up or abstained.

                            Comment


                            • Re: UK Politics: Theresa May wins confidence vote (325-306)

                              it was a waste time right from the start, Tories won't give anyone the power
                              Waffles are checked cookies

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                              • 52% voted in favour of May...

                                You couldn’t make it up.

                                Comment


                                • Re: UK Politics: Theresa May wins confidence vote (325-306)

                                  I don’t know if I’d describe it as a win as such
                                  1 Jack Wins |2 Holy Molly |3 Agnes |4 Hailee Steinfeld |5 SG Lewis

                                  Comment


                                  • Re: UK Politics: Theresa May wins confidence vote (325-306)

                                    Lucky bitch.

                                    Comment


                                    • Re: UK Politics: Theresa May “wins” confidence vote (325-306

                                      what does this new vote mean?
                                      DUA LIPA - RIHANNA - THE WEEKND - DOJA CAT
                                      98 - OUT

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by aRat
                                        what does this new vote mean?
                                        Theresa May continues as HBIC.

                                        Comment


                                        • [youtube:zrkppb1q]ae5t1CZFCU8[/youtube:zrkppb1q]
                                          Waffles are checked cookies

                                          Comment


                                          • Originally posted by Wayne
                                            Originally posted by aRat
                                            what does this new vote mean?
                                            Theresa May continues as HBIC.
                                            ok so nothing
                                            DUA LIPA - RIHANNA - THE WEEKND - DOJA CAT
                                            98 - OUT

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by heppolo
                                              [youtube:6hfjsg3k]ae5t1CZFCU8[/youtube:6hfjsg3k]
                                              hm that was kinda hawt
                                              DUA LIPA - RIHANNA - THE WEEKND - DOJA CAT
                                              98 - OUT

                                              Comment


                                              • Interesting video that stevyy posted - it does feel as though the British media, namely the Mail, have been on a 15 year mission to scare the white majority into believing that immigrants (especially Muslims, or those with “brown” skin) are gradually changing Britain for the worse. If you were to collect and believe every story they’ve peddled, we wouldn’t be allowed Christmas trees anymore, churches are being converted into mosques, the Union Jack is banned, no British person has a job because the immigrants have stolen them, all Tescos are now Polish shops and every woman in a burka is wearing a bomb vest.

                                                Combine this with the rise of the far right, Donald Trump’s victory, lies spread by the leave campaign and a general public despair with the political landscape since 2010 and this whole mess seems pretty unsurprising.

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by Thriller
                                                  Interesting video that stevyy posted - it does feel as though the British media, namely the Mail, have been on a 15 year mission to scare the white majority into believing that immigrants (especially Muslims, or those with “brown” skin) are gradually changing Britain for the worse. If you were to collect and believe every story they’ve peddled, we wouldn’t be allowed Christmas trees anymore, churches are being converted into mosques, the Union Jack is banned, no British person has a job because the immigrants have stolen them, all Tescos are now Polish shops and every woman in a burka is wearing a bomb vest.

                                                  Combine this with the rise of the far right, Donald Trump’s victory, lies spread by the leave campaign and a general public despair with the political landscape since 2010 and this whole mess seems pretty unsurprising.
                                                  This is why I ‘read’ The Mail actually - it is always good to know what those you disagree with are thinking. Sadly, the worst part are reading the comments and discovering how horrific actual people are in their attitudes too.
                                                  Exsqueeze me!

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Originally posted by Thriller
                                                    Interesting video that stevyy posted - it does feel as though the British media, namely the Mail, have been on a 15 year mission to scare the white majority into believing that immigrants (especially Muslims, or those with “brown” skin) are gradually changing Britain for the worse. If you were to collect and believe every story they’ve peddled, we wouldn’t be allowed Christmas trees anymore, churches are being converted into mosques, the Union Jack is banned, no British person has a job because the immigrants have stolen them, all Tescos are now Polish shops and every woman in a burka is wearing a bomb vest.

                                                    Combine this with the rise of the far right, Donald Trump’s victory, lies spread by the leave campaign and a general public despair with the political landscape since 2010 and this whole mess seems pretty unsurprising.
                                                    Fox News and Daily Mail, the Rupert Murdoch machine. Plus there are money ties to UKIP. He's making a fortune on bigotry, hatred, fear, division and loathing.
                                                    Waffles are checked cookies

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