U.K. Politics: Nadine Dorries resigns her post as MP - or does she?

[Blondini]

posting error

[ManicFan2k]

back in time I was once a devout tory supporter and even party member but I haven't been for the last 5-6 years or more. Although I have moved slowly and slowly more over to the left in my maturing years I did ultimately decide to vote blue again this time.... as a 'better the devil we know' vote

I think the tory government but with the lib dems keeping them in check was a successful 5 years so reasoning, it would be another hung parliament and felt another tory/lib dem collation was still the best option for us again. I still felt the conservative campaign they ran had a lot of scare tactics in it etc but ultimately I can't admit it on social media (facebook) as I'd be committing social suicide I am pleased with the result and ultimately think it is for the best.


The ''I'm left wing and anyone who isn't is a .... and I will ram that view down you're throat'' vile bile that I've seen all across social media the last two days I think these people are horrible, nasty people who can't accept that some people have a different opinion to them at the end of the day

[Brad]

Michael Gove becoming the new Justice Secretary is a disaster.

[Blondini]

Nobody can really complain about the electoral system.

There was a referendum on A.V. a while back and the public decided they wanted to keep an electoral system that was likely to generate a parliamentary majority. So yeah, we can grumble but it is our own fault and if we didn't vote for it back then, then we can't really complain if it worked exactly as we wanted.

Bolded

People are more informed now. The upsurge for UKIP and Greens proves they won't stand for it.

Also - i said there'd be more anti government / anti-tory protests. There's been some today, in fact.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/an ... es-5670515

Why should the SNP have so much power when it's all coming from a concentrated small area? How is that fair?

Non-biased London protests link:
http://www.ibtimes.com/london-protests- ... ce-1915527

I am not even going to read that...its in the Daily Mirror...you may as well have posted a link to Socialist Worker. Of course it will be anti Conservative.

We are more informed now??!? .That's nonsense. There were weeks of dicsussion on TV, radio and press in the lead up to the referendum. The only people that were not informed were either deliberately avoiding the debate or living under a rock. Yeah...the Greens and UKIP suffered this time but it has always been thus...smaller parties with broad but shallow support get less votes than in a PR system.

FPTP vs PR
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32601281

Why should the SNP have so much power with so small an area of votes? How is that fair?

Non-biased London protests link:
http://www.ibtimes.com/london-protests- ... ce-1915527

[Blondini]

Michael Gove becoming the new Justice Secretary is a disaster.

Yes. :evil:

Things can only get worse.

[UKMusicLova]

Michael Gove is probably my least favourite MP. Something just so slimy about him, so I'm not happy that he's been given that position at all.

[Wayne]

The David Cameron story



David Cameron has proved the doubters in his own party and beyond wrong by winning a majority of his own at the 2015 general election.

When he was elected Conservative leader in 2005, he was seen as the party's answer to Tony Blair, a young, modern leader, who would shake off the party's "nasty" image and turn it back into the election winning machine that had dominated much of 20th century British politics.

But despite big advances at the 2010 election, he was forced to form a coalition with the Liberal Democrats, handing ammunition to those on the right of the party who hated his brand of "Liberal Conservatism" and yearned for a more traditional Tory programme.

Mr Cameron's presentational skills were never in doubt.

His easy charm and ability to appear "prime ministerial" at news conferences and summits helped ensure his personal poll ratings remained well ahead of the Conservative Party's ratings.

But critics complained that it was difficult to pin down what he actually believed in.

Read more - I know you want to: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32592449

[Erotica]

A win for the Conservatives :/ same mess like in Germany

[Madgefan]

Michael Gove becoming the new Justice Secretary is a disaster.

I remember when he was Education Secretary, teachers despised him. I love the book 'Everything I know about teaching' by Michael Gove .....over 90 blank pages of Gove's teaching wisdom
I know we should give some of these people a chance but going by their past record doesn't inspire confidence.

[Graham76man]

I like the FPTP system - it keeps the likes of UKIP and the BNP out of power.

A proportionate, popular voting system would spell doom for the UK.

There members are mostly ex Torry and have infiltrated that party in the past and will no-doubt in the future. In fact the Torries themselves are racist and homophobic in themselves. Many of the conservatives are are not in favour of the EU as it is much more left than they like. Have you forgotten clause 4? The only reason the Conservatives wouldn't have more immigration controls is that the EU doesn't allow them or they would break UN agreements.
The first past the post system could easily put one of these parties in power too, they just need the money required to win an election. The Torry's I know get there money by sending out to everyone registered as Company Directors letters asking for party donations. I know this for certain, because I had to become a Company Director of a Charity. And they sent me one!

As for referendums they are a joke! They are easily hijacked into giving the leading party precisely what it wants. It's easily done. You fix the thing. Media manipulation for one thing. Scare stories, which are not true. They only have one if they know they are going to win it in the first place.
The previous one on electoral reform had little backing from the parties. The Conservatives even knew Labour wouldn't back it! Labour simply thought it would give the Liberals more seats. The other parties who need the reform have no media backing them. As for the public, most don't vote, they have completely lost faith in the election system. They regard MP's as bent, child abusers or sex mad, thick as two planks of wood and completely out of touch so they are not interested in how these people are elected. UNTIL it hurts them!

[Blondini]

I'm gonna have to exit this thread cause it could get ugly and i'm not one for arguing (despite what past posting history might suggest).

Here's a report of the Cardiff protest with Charlotte Church. Yes, it's the Mail but only because they are thorough. Can't be bothered to look for "unbiased" links, unpick your own bias. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... y-men.html

Here she is speaking passionately at a "Bring Back The NHS" event hosted by Sir Ian McKellen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00hVhR1Qf3o

Charlotte Church @charlottechurch · May 7
The politics of fear is the politics of control and we've given the reigns to the bogey men.
1,522 retweets 1,230 favorites
Reply Retweeted1.5K Favorite1.2K
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Charlotte Church @charlottechurch · May 7
Devastated. #lostfaithinhumanity
450 retweets 618 favorites
Reply Retweet450 Favorite618
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Tory snobs can sneer all they want but she has the profile to influence and is actually saying something unlike "i changed my mind again" Russell Brand.


*quote from 1976 film Network*


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61% of people in a poll by The Independent (is that unibased?) before the election result wanted electoral reform:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 24354.html

It's a poll but it's not an exit poll.

A majority of people support electoral reform amid growing fears of chaos after Thursday’s general election, according to a survey for The Independent.

Politicians in all parties admitted there will be a renewed debate about voting reform if the first-past-the-post system produces the stalemate suggested by the opinion polls. Only four years ago, Britain voted by 68 to 32 per cent in a referendum against a switch to the alternative vote system.

Pollsters ORB, who questioned more than 2,000 people between May 1-3, found that 61 per cent believe the system should be reformed so that smaller parties are better represented in parliament, while 39 per cent think it should remain as it is, with MPs chosen directly by their constituents.

Vince Cable, the Lib Dem Business Secretary, has called for a debate (Getty) Vince Cable, the Lib Dem Business Secretary, has called for a debate (Getty)
Men (63 per cent) are slightly more likely to support change than women (59 per cent). There is majority support for electoral reform among all age groups, although 18-24 year-olds (68 per cent) are more likely to back change than those 65 and over (52 per cent). Reform is endorsed by all social class groups and in every region of Great Britain.

How election results would look under proportional representation voting system

[JimJim]

http://i62.tinypic.com/2gtr8rq.jpg

*quote from 1976 film Network*

Nah, I'm pretty sure she got it from everyone's favourite Pia Toscano smash hit

[Wayne]

Defacing a war memorial

Women of World War II memorial on Whitehall has been scrawled with the message "F**k Tory scum"

Pretty much sums how idiotic these protests have turned, and how pathetic some of those people are.

[Marius]

Michael Gove becoming the new Justice Secretary is a disaster.

I remember when he was Education Secretary, teachers despised him.

Because he made them more accountable (through the creation of independent schools) and tried to dismantle their unions. Not sure why bad teachers cannot be let go, just like any other employees? That's what Gove wanted.

[Thriller]

Although driving up standards is what everybody wants, I don't think Gove had any interest in the views of teachers and those actually working in education - instead he bulldozed in with his own ideologies. There have been so many education reforms recently I just don't want anymore, they need to let the dust settle.

I like the idea of free schools and academies to an extent but there's the risk of them becoming elitist (typical Tories) the use of unqualified teachers is a slap in the face to people like me who have spent 3/4 years learning, training and practicing in order to become qualified and ready to teach.

[Rihab]

Shouldn't this be moved to News & Gossip? The US, German and Australian election threads all ended up there.

[Graham76man]

^ No unless people keep commenting on protests. They should post them on the news thread. The title should not have been added on to it either. That made it news story.

Back to what this thread should be about Election issues.

I don't think the PR results were a true reflection of what would have happened if the election had used that system. For one thing the first past the post system encourages tactical voting especially in marginal seats. So people might vote for another party simply to stop one getting in that seat. The Labour party could have suffered from this with Liberal voters voting for UKIP to one punish their own party, but stop Labour getting in.
With PR it wouldn't make any difference as you could vote for who you like and not vote for a party you had no belief in at all just to stop a party getting in.

Nevertheless I don't think the PR systems suggested would make it more democratic.
This is personally what I think the system should be:
First scrap the regional elections. These are pointless and based on a system that simply could not add up the votes in large numbers.
Instead I would create an Electoral Agency. This would be responsible for ensuring everyone could vote and collecting all the votes in. It would no longer be done by Town Halls and in Town Halls.
The system for voting would work like this:
The Total number of seats in Parliament - so if this was say 700 - there would be 700 MPs needed to be elected.
Each Party would put up 700 candidates. They would be named and submitted to the Electoral Agency for checking. Each candidate would be numbered the Party leader would be top (1) - compulsory - all the rest order decided by the party itself. If the party can not front 700 people then they could not stand or would have to join with another party that could put up the rest. For each of the 700 there would be a fee like now. But they would not get the money back if they win any seats or not. This would be used in part to fund the Agency.
The Election voting paper would show only the names of the parties standing for election. None of the candidates names would be shown. The vote would be for one party - one cross.
The results would then be added up. Then divided by the seats available. So if takes 15,000 votes to take each seat, the party with the largest votes would take there seats and so on till there was none left. What it would take to get a seat would depend on how many people voted (something that is not taken into account now) the share of the vote among the parties.
If a party got 321 seats then the first 321 people on the list of 700 will be elected.
To take in the needs of independent candidates wishing to stand for election. They would have to only put half the money need to stand 700 persons. There would be a second ballot paper with all the independent ones on. Plus another box saying none of the above. Again only one X on this paper and you can still vote for a party - though this could be changed if it was a problem. If you do not wish to vote for an Independent then you have to put an X in the "none" box. Any blank papers will be deemed void and the person vote in both parts voided too. There would also have to be a "none" box on the list of parties - but that would only be X if you wanted to vote for the independent candidate only. These none X votes would be applied to all of the independent candidates and would be used to reduce the vote share each when counting.
I don't think it would be necessary for local government elections to use this system. But to make the MPs more accountable I propose those elected would have to sit on Local Councils. These would be divided up between the parties on areas where they are represented best in the local elections. The MP would only sit on the full council meetings - not on sub committees etc. The MP would have a list of the issues that are to be discussed in Parliament and that would be debated in the Council meeting. The Councill would then tell the MP how they would like them to vote or raise concerns about the issues. The MP then acts or doesn't on these concerns and feeds back to the Council the outcomes. If the Council finds that the MP is not working for them they can ask for them to replaced. The MP would then face the chop and candidate 322 on the Electoral Role list would be elected to replace them. This would be the case if an MP dies or steps down.
Elections every 5 years of course.
Also the election results would all go the Electoral Agency. The election results counted without party politicly people interfering, the next working day after the polls close - not during the night! The results issued on the day three after close. To allow a full check to be made.
Postal votes would be sent in and counted while the election was running. These could be used to show the state of the parties.

In order to reduce costs of some of the parties that will only get small amounts of votes. On the next election the fee for a party that failed to get sufficient votes to gain a seat would have it's fee reduced for that election and any other election where they didn't get enough votes. Perhaps based on any party that failed to get a percentage of the vote cast?

[Wayne]

Awful idea.

[hun]

Shouldn't this be moved to News & Gossip? The US, German and Australian election threads all ended up there.

[Brad]

Defacing a war memorial

Women of World War II memorial on Whitehall has been scrawled with the message "F**k Tory scum"

Pretty much sums how idiotic these protests have turned, and how pathetic some of those people are.

One idiotic person defacing the memorial shouldn't define these protests. It's a shame most of the media outlets actually reporting on it are trying hard to do so.

[ShayLaB]

Defacing a war memorial

Women of World War II memorial on Whitehall has been scrawled with the message "F**k Tory scum"

Pretty much sums how idiotic these protests have turned, and how pathetic some of those people are.

One idiotic person defacing the memorial shouldn't define these protests. It's a shame most of the media outlets actually reporting on it are trying hard to do so.

It does make you wonder how many of those protesters were out campaigning for their local candidate of choice before the election. Not many I suspect,

[Graham76man]

Awful idea.

A right wing fascist would say that

[Wayne]

Awful idea.

A right wing fascist would say that

I am not a right wing fascist - don't make these assumptions based on who I choose to vote for or what electoral system I choose to support.

[Wayne]

One idiotic person defacing the memorial shouldn't define these protests. It's a shame most of the media outlets actually reporting on it are trying hard to do so.

I watched another video earlier of a protester kicking a fence at a police officer, and then in another video a protester throwing a cone at a police officer's head.

[Brad]

One idiotic person defacing the memorial shouldn't define these protests. It's a shame most of the media outlets actually reporting on it are trying hard to do so.

I watched another video earlier of a protester kicking a fence at a police officer, and then in another video a protester throwing a cone at a police officer's head.

And there are also videos of police targeting individuals not doing anything. As usual. The coverage is always one-sided and there's no denying it unless you're a walking Daily Mail.

It does make you wonder how many of those protesters were out campaigning for their local candidate of choice before the election. Not many I suspect,

Yep and I think they could be doing more useful things now to tackle the Tories than this protest.

It's understandable why people are upset / angry / disappointed when most did not want this government (only 37% did) but they should have been doing more before the election.