U.K. Politics: Nadine Dorries resigns her post as MP - or does she?

[Artoo]

Whilst there are definitely racist Tories, I genuinely don’t believe that was a deciding factor in Rishi’s defeat in the initial leadership bid. He only lost the membership vote by 8%, and had become a divisive and somewhat controversial figure in the build up to Boris leaving.

I think he was too close to Boris, complicit in some of Boris’ mistakes, and was also guilty of breaking lockdown laws he helped create (investigated and fined by the police). People just wanted a fresh break from the Boris era.

[jordi_89]

won't be used by any party for what purpose?

As a "selling point" for their candidate to try to gain votes. It's been all the rage in the US for years and in other countries some parties have also adapted this strategy because they think it always works. I'd rather they just explained their policies better for the average voters.

[greek_boy]

I know, but now that element (their race & gender) won't be used in the next election by any party because (some) minorities have been in power already.

won't be used by any party for what purpose?

[jordi_89]

There were no other candidates. It was between Sunak and Truss first (the Tory members clearly voted for Truss because she is a WHITE woman), then it was Sunak on his own (he got the support of Tory MPs). None of them were voted by the UK public in general elections.

I know, but now that element (their race & gender) won't be used in the next election by any party because (some) minorities have been in power already.

[greek_boy]

The UK has had 2 prime ministers from minorities back to back, both of them conservative. Quite funny when you think about it. But at the same time it's a good thing because that way we won't have to go through yet another campaign where one "progressive" politician uses their identity as a way to gain votes.

There were no other candidates. It was between Sunak and Truss first (the Tory members clearly voted for Truss because she is a WHITE woman), then it was Sunak on his own (he got the support of Tory MPs). None of them were voted by the UK public in general elections.

[theMathematician]

I would disagree with you here, but I guess that's a topic you could write dissertations about ^^ .

[jordi_89]

Which minority status has Liz Truss got?

Woman.


I know they're 50-52% of the population, but in positions of power they are a minority.

[theMathematician]

The UK has had 2 prime ministers from minorities back to back, both of them conservative. Quite funny when you think about it. But at the same time it's a good thing because that way we won't have to go through yet another campaign where one "progressive" politician uses their identity as a way to gain votes.

Which minority status has Liz Truss got?

[ferrero]

mess. can't she choose another portfolio?

[Wayne]

I definitely spoke too soon…news breaking this morning:

• We’ve found out that Liz Truss’ personal phone was hacked and compromised by the KGB and the then Prime Minister Boris Johnson and Cabinet Secretary Simon Case both suppressed the story as Liz’s leadership campaign might’ve been affected otherwise.
• Home Secretary Suella Braverman ignored official advice and illegally detained asylum seekers in terrible conditions - this will inevitably bolster calls for her to go.
• Current Prime Minister Rishi Sunak - having decided he himself will not attend COP28 - now faces a show down with Boris, who has apparently decided he WILL be attending. All the whole, Downing Street have maintained their advice that King Charles also doesn’t attend.

[Thriller]

It has been relentless. I don’t watch much news but every time I walked into the work kitchen over the last month (which plays BBC News all day), it’s just been pure politics.

[Wayne]

Aside from the continuing noise around “leaky Sue”, the back to back, wall to wall coverage of U.K. politics appears to have subsided, at least for now (which can only be a good thing). I actually heard lots of other news stories this morning on the radio, was pleasantly surprised!

[Artoo]

She spotted her opportunity and took it

[jordi_89]

The UK has had 2 prime ministers from minorities back to back, both of them conservative. Quite funny when you think about it. But at the same time it's a good thing because that way we won't have to go through yet another campaign where one "progressive" politician uses their identity as a way to gain votes.

[theMathematician]

The problem with an old vs young political divide is that in a lot of developing populations the older population is increasing - people are living longer, so the younger generation would find it harder to introduce their desired changes. I think in the UK politics is based more on location than age group, with the youth vote being dominated by a party’s position on global issues (e.g. climate change), before probably progressing to more domestic issues like affordable housing.

On the other hand, many members of the older generation believe that the younger generation shouldn't have impact on possible changes because they assume that young folks are too inexperienced and naive to make decisions that match the interest of many people for a long time. After all, that's the reason why certain political offices with high responsibilities can only be reached once you hit a certain age. I'm sure many of you have heard phrases like: 'You'll change your mind once you walk in my shoes.' and that's true to some extent. There are still a few ideals I share with my younger self, but the older you get, the more you understand your parents' or grandparents' habits and in some cases even adapt them yourself.

[Artoo]

The problem with an old vs young political divide is that in a lot of developing populations the older population is increasing - people are living longer, so the younger generation would find it harder to introduce their desired changes. I think in the UK politics is based more on location than age group, with the youth vote being dominated by a party’s position on global issues (e.g. climate change), before probably progressing to more domestic issues like affordable housing.

[stevyy]

British Politicians are welcome to the party but always overstay their welcome. We know they try to do their best it’s just that ultimately, their best is never good enough. Politics is a thankless game.

I think that 90% of all politicians never truly realized or believed in representing the views of their voters or doing the best for the country as a whole.

We've had so many scandals here in my country, too many to count. And from what I've heard... Boris seemed very selfish and scandalous as well.

There are a lot of backroom deals and what not... corruption is running high among those who hold power - America being a prime example of that.

Which leads me to the young vs. old people debate:

I think that there is no reason to vote against eco-friendly policies, social policies, LGBTQ / POC / Immigration policies etc. There is NONE.

Britain for Brits, Germany for Germans, America for Americans etc... it simply doesn't work like this anymore and there is no going back to the 1950s, there simply is not. It's either... go with the times and adjust or stop existing... because if you are against the things I've listed above... our countries will implode and vanish.

I hate that we have so many stooopid parties in our governments or parliaments who simply just lie and an 80 y.o. voting for the most comfortable and easy solutions CAN do so because he will never face the consequences.

Democracy is therefore doomed to fail. We see it in the US where the Republicans are working hard on changing the voting rights in such a way that they cannot lose anymore.

Germany has the worst government it ever had right now
Britain has the most unstable government it ever had right now
Italy has the most far-right government it had since WW2
and America is effectively dissolving itself as we speak.

I think that we are living in very dark times and to some extent, it seems like we are losing.

[Artoo]

British Politicians are welcome to the party but always overstay their welcome. We know they try to do their best it’s just that ultimately, their best is never good enough. Politics is a thankless game.

[theMathematician]

Beyond that we are deeply sceptical of politicians - we all know it’s only a matter of time before they screw us over.

Apparently, it's the total opposite in Italy. I once read in an article that Italy is always euphoric when new politicians step on the scene. Pretty much like the UK with female artists...

[Artoo]

The Conservative Party doesn’t seem as extreme in their views as a lot of other right wing parties around the world, which is what makes them all the more dangerous in my opinion. It’s a party that adapts to survive, and does so successfully.

The irony of British politics is that the British public doesn’t actually care about politics - all we want is someone competent that will find a way to keep taxes low and run public services well. We can forgive a lot if these are well looked after.

Beyond that we are deeply sceptical of politicians - we all know it’s only a matter of time before they screw us over.

Pre-Brexit the understanding was The Tories would balance the books and then Labour would come in and spend it on social progression. But that all went out the window after Brexit.

[theMathematician]

The thing is that young generations have always been known as 'the rebels'. In fact, I've heard quite a few times that the current generation is much more adjusted than it's been the case with previous young generations. So yeah, I believe that something happens in life that may not make you walk to the other extreme of the political extreme, but at least reconsider previous views of yours. Probably more life experience, work, having a family, politicial surprises and failed expectations, social movements... Otherwise, our grandparents' generation would still be self-declared hippies nowadays, and while a few may still be, most aren't.

[Rihab]

People don't become more politically conservative as they grow older, that's a myth that's been debunked in countless studies from various countries. Political attitudes (not necessarily party affiliation) are remarkably stable over time, which makes sense as one's world view and identity don't change often, if ever. Our brains hate to be wrong and will generally seek reinforcement.

Sure there's a bit of wiggle room in most cases and the right candidate or some kind of major crisis might convince you to change over to the opposite camp once in a blue moon, but someone who identifies as a progressive, pro-EU, pro-LGBT, pro-immigration, pro-choice environmentalist and marches with Greta today certainly won't drop all of their principles and vote for Brexit or the likes of Le Pen, Meloni or AfD tomorrow. That would be considered schizophrenic.

[theMathematician]

You're making the same mistake many people do in argumentation, and that is believing that young people are screwed in elections by being demographically underrepresented yet having to live with the results longer.
There's always a subliminal message that sounds like: 'Once the older generation is no longer around, the views of the now young generation will represent political majorities.'. And that's wrong because it assumes that someone at 20 will have exactly the same political views at 50 or 80. Many people develop more conservative views as they mature.
Think of it that way: Who were the people who influenced the protests of 1968? Young people with left and green views. Come back to 2022: What are those very people, 50 years later, voting for these days?

[greek_boy]

Scotland will never become independent. It would be logical, but so was voting remain... Old white men and their Karens always vote for the wrong thing and their population is increasing by the minute. Young people are screwed.

Voting remain was logical but the campaign for Remain was a big failure because they did not expect the Leave campaign to be more popular. The Leave campaign was paid by some suspicious donors from Russia and far right-wingers in US. The Remainers (incl. Tories in favour of EU) thought they wouldn't lose the referendum. They didn't expect the online misinformation would play such major role in Brexit. Also, let's not forget that people were told that UK won't lose access to single market and movement to Europe because 'they need us more than we need them'. Plus, the millions available on a weekly basis for NHS. Based on those fat lies, a second referendum should take place.

Anyway, I think Scotland can be independent because the worst is yet to come and they're suffering for policies they didn't vote for. Wales and Northern Ireland are also regions with disappointed voters. Scottish people are more and more in favour of leaving the union than ever. They hate Tories.

Young people are screwed and it's a shame that older people got to decide on the future of the young generations by voting for Leave (it doesn't affect the old people who got to enjoy the benefits of EU membership) but at the same time young people are all against Conservatives [latest poll showed that only 8% of people under 50 (I think) would vote for Conservatives.]

There is a small hope but honestly, the country needs a fresh mandate and general elections. Otherwise, they're doomed.

[stevyy]

You're fine to call that reasonable and kind, I'm just saying that not everyone thinks like that, including young people. I guess you remember which party was the most popular among first voters during the last election in Germany, don't you?

I remember, but those who voted for the that party must be mentally ill...

Let's not derail this topic any further.