U.K. Politics: Nadine Dorries resigns her post as MP - or does she?

[AlphaMale]

"The intention is clearly (or obviously) for Brexit to be either cancelled or to be an enormous failure" from both sides I might add.
Of course the EU wouldn't be laying the red carpet for the UK to leave, that's obvious, but the UK isn't making it easier for themselfs either.

[jio]

"The intention is clearly (or obviously) for Brexit to be either cancelled or to be an enormous failure" from both sides I might add.
Of course the EU wouldn't be laying the red carpet for the UK to leave, that's obvious, but the UK isn't making it easier for themselfs either.

Well if we accept that a successful Brexit poses an existential threat to the EU (and in my view it does), then what we have here is a zero sum game. And when there is a zero sum game the UK cannot "make it easier for itself". That's not a possibility because one's gain is another's loss. So if Brexit is not cancelled then it has to be disastrous for the UK and since the UK would never propose a disastrous Brexit for itself, there is no way they can make it easy for themselves.

The whole discussion on the way Brexit goes both here and in media in general forgets that this is a negotiation with 2 sides. It focuses on the British side, on their weaknesses and strengths and on their tactics but forget to analyze similarly the other side (which is far more complicated than the UK in terms of structure, goals and decision-making processes)

[Artoo]

French news magazine Le Point is reporting that President Emmanuel Macron will block Theresa May's request for an extension.

"For Macron, it is decided: it is necessary to stop beating around the bush, and refuse the British any postponement of Brexit," the publication writes.

"This is in any case the position he will express on Thursday at the European Council."

Hunger Games.

[jio]

...which confirms everything I said before.

[heppolo]

so Macron isn't willing to offer any extensions, which is expected

[jio]

Actually Macron has said that France will grant an extension only if May can guarantee the deal will pass. Which is a very bizarre position for France to take because:
1) it makes a complete mockery of the democratic processes within an EU state. How can May guarantee a deal will pass when the deal has already been rejected by the most democratically representative institution in her country?
2) If May cannot guarantee to circumvent her country's democratic processes and Macron doesn't grant an extension a no-deal Brexit will follow which will create a hard border in Ireland and would essentially constitute a hostile move against the interests of a fellow EU state, i.e. the Republic of Ireland

In any case the UK is still an EU state and France's stance is very much against the ideal of solidarity but very much in line with everything the EU has been doing the past 10 years or so.

[Rihab]

so Macron isn't willing to offer any extensions, which is expected

King tbh.

[AlphaMale]

Brexit delay news: EU will allow short Article 50 extension but only if MPs vote for Theresa May's deal

[jio]

Brexit delay news: EU will allow short Article 50 extension but only if MPs vote for Theresa May's deal

That's according to Donald Tusk. Ireland has already voiced its opposition in this prospect so I am wondering can the president of the European Council decide alone on this? I suppose he cannot and I didn't notice any council meeting...

In truth he is simply using his power to call for such a meeting (which is necessary to approve an extension) in order to blackmail the UK in the name of some (i.e. France for example) and not all (i.e. Ireland and others) EU states. So basically we have the same dilemma as in Greece a few years back: do as the EU want and violate democracy or pay the price. And essentially this sums up why the EU is in the state it is in the past 10 years...

I do hope May opts for a no-deal Brexit. This is totally unacceptable and against the very basic ideals the EU was built upon in the first place

[AlphaMale]

European Council president Mr Tusk, speaking in Brussels, said: "In the light of the consultations that I have conducted over the past days, I believe that a short extension would be possible.but only if...
No council, but consultations

[jio]

Consultations with who? And I am wondering is he morally justified not to be calling a meeting to decide on such an important matter? This is basically a coup

[AlphaMale]

What?

[jio]

It's a coup (metaphorically) because we have the council's president taking away the power from the Council (where all EU members are represented) to decide on the extension. He essentially refused to call for a Council meeting unless the UK agrees to all (in which case the Council will have nothing to discuss about). Given that there are EU states such as France opposing an extension and others such as Ireland supporting an extension, this is essentially some countries deciding for all without the proper decision procedure being followed IMO. The European Council should have decided on the UK's request, not Tusk alone after informal consultations.

[beredy]

UK is so annoying. They want all the good things of being the member of the EU, but without giving anything up. I hope EU does not approve any extension. Also the whole parliament (or whatever political body was voting for the agreement, I'm not fully into the whole UK political structure) is dumb as ****. There was no way UK was going to leave without having to make many compromises. Their stance is so unrealistic and basically they're throwing May under the bus. They would throw anyone in her position though. They're just too afraid to go for it and try to make the best out of the exit.

[AlphaMale]

I don't believe that he has said this, if he hadn't already knew what is going to be decided.
This situation is no surprise, it was bound to end like this and I'm sure the EU already had tons of informal conversations

[jio]

And yet a simple search reveals that most EU states have publicly said they would support an extension including Portugal, Croatia, Ireland, Netherlands, Spain, Italy and others. In fact the only states I could find opposing an extension is France and Belgium (and always important Germany not expressing any opinion) but I didn't look at all states of course. So at a minimum there is disagreement which should be dealt with with a formal procedure instead of consultations that are informal and subject to all kinds of pressures. I mean come on now

The funny thing is that the EU itself is not supporting a no-deal Brexit (except certain states), it just uses that threat to blackmail the UK into May's unbalanced deal. So I am wondering what will happen if the UK actually opts not to compromise.

[jio]

OK I kept looking and besides the countries already mentioned I found public statements also from the governments of Sweden, Estonia, Latvia, Czech R., Slovenia, Austria, Cyprus, Malta and Bulgaria supporting an extension. Notice: I only found statements from France, Belgium, Denmark, Lithuania and Slovakia indicating they would oppose an extension. A simple search didn't reveal anything for the remaining countries.

[DnBLover]

How about they just stop this bullshit. Is it that hard?
Admit it was a mistake. And stop it. Simple.

[heppolo]

OK I kept looking and besides the countries already mentioned I found public statements also from the governments of Sweden, Estonia, Latvia, Czech R., Slovenia, Austria, Cyprus, Malta and Bulgaria supporting an extension. Notice: I only found statements from France, Belgium, Denmark, Lithuania and Slovakia indicating they would oppose an extension. A simple search didn't reveal anything for the remaining countries.

They should have a Eurovision-style vote.
France - "No Extension"... douze points

[jio]

How about they just stop this bullshit. Is it that hard?
Admit it was a mistake. And stop it. Simple.

Well the EU has been in constant crisis since 2010. Brexit is just another step in that crisis. So even if it magically disappears the next crisis is never that far away (it's probably Italy at this point) so...

[beredy]

They should have a Eurovision-style vote.
France - "No Extension"... douze points

This would be perfect.

[Wayne]

How about they just stop this bullshit. Is it that hard?
Admit it was a mistake. And stop it. Simple.

More than half of the voters voted in favour of exit - that isn't a mistake, that's a serious number of people disengaged with the European Union. Even allowing for a proportion of those having been misled, there's still a massive number of people that aren't happy. It's not a mistake, a bad decision - possibly - but not a mistake.

The EU needs to change for the good of the EU.

[jio]

They should have a Eurovision-style vote.
France - "No Extension"... douze points

I think that's what they are doing anyway... lol

[Wayne]

Theresa May due to make a statement from Downing Street at 20:15 this evening.

It is not expected to be a general election announcement, she is expected instead to go over the heads of MPs and appeal to the country to get behind this deal, I guess by exerting pressure on their MPs (we have local elections coming up for e.g.).

[Artoo]

Theresa May due to make a statement from Downing Street at 20:15 this evening.

Clearly making use of that 30 minutes between Corrie episodes