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UK Politics: MPs back plan to leave EU on 31 January

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  • Originally posted by jio View Post
    That's so true... media decide who we are going to like and who not (politically) without even giving them the benefit of the doubt. I could name some examples but it is beyond the point.

    From a legal point of view there are several ways forward, most of each would annul the previous referendum (such as a new referendum). Ethically however there is no way that the UK could remain in the EU without hurting its democratic traditions. The will of the people was expressed freely and fairly once (yes, one could argue that politicians lied but show me when they don't lie? that means nothing) and since then we had a premier who was supposedly trying to achieve Brexit while never believing in it and now a parliament which is supposedly trying to achieve a Brexit with a deal when they clearly believe that there should be no Brexit at all. If another referendum does take place and Brexit is rejected, then the real question would be how much of the shift in votes was due to people essentially being blackmailed by the anti-Brexit rhetoric of post-Brexit doom (unproven) thus making the second decision one taken under distress plus the question of why the next referendum should be binding and not just attempt to overturn it again since that would have happened to the first one. Tough questions...

    If Parliament clearly believe that there should be no Brexit at all then why did it vote 498 votes to 114 in favour of triggering Article 50?

    You don't know if the will of the people was expressed freely and fairly as your opinion is based on an EU referendum corruptly won. If the referendum had been legally binding then a judge could have made the result null and void. However, since the the referendum was only advisory the result cannot legally be overturned by the courts.



    Comment


    • What exactly makes it "corruptly" won?
      jio CHARTS NOW:27/1/2020: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...3#post10339063

      Comment


      • Originally posted by heppolo View Post
        How ironic that BoJo PM position has been the result of deep divisions within the Conservative Party, yet because of this kaleidoscopic situation BoJo is simply unable to achieve any progress for better or worse.
        The division is mostly within the parliamentary party, though. Party members love BoJo, and he's still leading the polls by 3-14 points.

        As things stand, I think BoJo will resign next month, Damien Rabb will be the "temporary" PM (and Oxford's 29th PM) to request for an extention from the EU. Then he'll probably be elected party leader and eventually, everyone will finally agree to take Theresa May's deal. Then a general election with another hung parliament.
        Originally posted by WhatTheHell
        Voice of the truth here!! :(

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        • Originally posted by jio View Post
          That's so true... media decide who we are going to like and who not (politically) without even giving them the benefit of the doubt. I could name some examples but it is beyond the point.

          From a legal point of view there are several ways forward, most of each would annul the previous referendum (such as a new referendum). Ethically however there is no way that the UK could remain in the EU without hurting its democratic traditions. The will of the people was expressed freely and fairly once (yes, one could argue that politicians lied but show me when they don't lie? that means nothing) and since then we had a premier who was supposedly trying to achieve Brexit while never believing in it and now a parliament which is supposedly trying to achieve a Brexit with a deal when they clearly believe that there should be no Brexit at all. If another referendum does take place and Brexit is rejected, then the real question would be how much of the shift in votes was due to people essentially being blackmailed by the anti-Brexit rhetoric of post-Brexit doom (unproven) thus making the second decision one taken under distress plus the question of why the next referendum should be binding and not just attempt to overturn it again since that would have happened to the first one. Tough questions...
          I'm not saying there should be a second referendum, but if the choices on the second referendum are 1. take May's deal; or 2. no deal, then it's not going to harm the integrity of the first one.

          That'd also avoid people asking for a third referendum on the basis of a second referendum being held. Though the optics would be bad.

          I believe the best way to deal with it democratically would be to have a general election, although I believe with a GE there should also be an extension.
          Originally posted by WhatTheHell
          Voice of the truth here!! :(

          Comment


          • Originally posted by jio View Post
            What exactly makes it "corruptly" won?
            Vote Leave was fined £61,000 after the electoral watchdog ruled that it broke electoral law.

            But was not possible to overturn the referendum result because the referendum was only advisory. Had the result been legally binding it would have been quashed.
            Last edited by Kpop; Wed September 11th, 2019, 11:23.

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            • It seems BoJo lied to the Queen

              https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9100206.html

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              • Originally posted by Kpop View Post
                BoJo casual speeches are so pompous and overblown with hyperbole, the man himself might not completely understand what he is talking about (especially if he was trying to impress the Queen), so ...
                Waffles are checked cookies

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                • ROTFL... Groundhog Day..,

                  https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...23948260983946
                  Last edited by Shadowplay; Fri September 20th, 2019, 08:32.
                  "Despair, regret, and tenderness is what I feel for you"

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                  • https://www.theguardian.com/law/2019...rules-prorogue

                    https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...a9117696.html#

                    Well done to the eleven Supreme Court Judges who have unanimously ruled that our deceitful Prime Minister unlawfully shutdown Partliament
                    Last edited by Kpop; Tue September 24th, 2019, 12:54.

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                    • I hope EU kicks UK without a deal and finishes this saga. I never thought UK politics would ever turn into a bunch of headless chickens running around. Quite an amazing feat.
                      I have received many gifts from God,
                      but this is the first time I have ever received a gift from a goddess
                      .

                      Don McLean on Madonna's version of American Pie

                      Comment


                      • Time to reopen parliament, then resign.

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                        • So if it was unlawful, will he face criminal charges?

                          The “Joris Bonson” leave voter on TV today was a perfect example of why the referendum should never have happened

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                          • I am honestly at loss for words to describe this mess.
                            5.05.2009 / 6.22.2011 / 4.24.2013 / 4.25.2013 / 3.1.2014 / 9.13.2014 / 7.21.2016 / 7.14.2018 / 7.15.2018

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                            • UK politics are a damn mess at the moment.

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                              • Well, has there even been a more disastrous start of a PM tenure in history? Not sure.
                                Waffles are checked cookies

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                                • Originally posted by heppolo View Post
                                  Well, has there even been a more disastrous start of a PM tenure in history? Not sure.

                                  Not sure if we've seen the worst yet:

                                  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...-a9121201.html

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                                  • Civil unrest seems to be when rather than if.

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                                    • The Prime Minister has been reported for misconduct in public office. On the other side of the world, the US President is being investigated with a view to impeaching him.

                                      We live in extraordinary times.

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                                      • oh well, double trouble across the pond
                                        Waffles are checked cookies

                                        Comment


                                        • Apparently a new deal is on the table. Next stop - getting ratified by UK Parliament and EU council.
                                          I have received many gifts from God,
                                          but this is the first time I have ever received a gift from a goddess
                                          .

                                          Don McLean on Madonna's version of American Pie

                                          Comment


                                          • It’s being slated as being worse than May’s.

                                            I don’t fully understand the Ireland stuff if I’m honest.

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                                            • It's gonna be a No Deal scenario, I guess. Boris attempts to sell the kind of deal Theresa had described previously as the one "no British PM would ever accept".
                                              Waffles are checked cookies

                                              Comment


                                              • Originally posted by heppolo View Post
                                                It's gonna be a No Deal scenario, I guess. Boris attempts to sell the kind of deal Theresa had described previously as the one "no British PM would ever accept".
                                                Boris also said the same thing last November. And yet here we are.

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                                                • cause Boris is such a career politician, he would cling on to power
                                                  Waffles are checked cookies

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                                                  • https://www.theguardian.com/politics...twin-amendment

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