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Jesy Nelson Vulture Interview discusses blackfishing

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  • #51
    Hmmm, it’s a tough one and is not a black and white topic (pardon the pun).

    Before watching the video, I was ready to say that it’s all probably been blown out of proportion. After all, what’s wrong with showing your appreciation for other cultures?

    However, now that I’ve seen the video and listened to her voice on the track, I understand the backlash. There’s a difference between appreciating black culture and trying to present yourself as black (for successful gain). Jesy and her team are definitely doing the latter.

    I don’t know who Leigh Anne is or what her documentary is about, but if Jesy hasn’t paid it any mind, it shows that she’s choosing to be ignorant rather than trying to understand the issue.

    I also agree that (probably) the majority of people offended by this are not POC themselves. It happens all the time - white people being offended on behalf of POC when it comes to something like this but most will not do a thing when it comes to confronting racism in their actual lives. Cancelling a pop girl is easier and tastier than supporting black business, for example.

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    • #52
      Tbh, as a white person, I can not say I am upset about the blackfishing because truthfully it doesn't affect me personally. Though as someone who is a fan since the beginning of Little Mix to the point I even imported the Cannonball CD-single despite the song being cheesy crap. And have seen these girls grow into their own women. I am personally just upset to see how someone can lie so much.

      Like I have posted a lot in regard of this blackfishing topic because even though it's not my place to be upset, people of color in the group and around the group have clearly showed that it affects and upsets them, as well as fans. If we add to that, that Jesy has basically be changing her story every few days now and other info coming out. I see nothing back from the girl I once actually supported.

      I never believed LM was rainbows and butterflies, they are people, but I believed in mutual respect and understanding. When I saw Jesy's documentary about mental health. I could not imagine what the pressure of the media and social media could do to someone. But I could relate as someone who has been bullied throughout high school and also deals with other mental health issues that it is a tough lifelong battle.

      When she left, I could place it all, and could understand it with what was told.I was curious and lowkey excited because after so much trauma, I kinda expected her to actually write about that struggle, to tell her story.

      When Leigh Anne's documentary came out and it was radio silence from Jesy's side, it already felt suspicious to me.A documentary about racism, talking about racism in the country, music industry, colorism and more. Then in interviews about her solo career Jesy begin to talk how they needed a distance from eachother. I could also get into that. But then she also didn't liked or posted anything about Leigh's and Perrie's pregnancies.

      Then she came with her grande big solo single 'Boyz', a song sampling a song, copying the musicvideo almost frame-by-frame with questionable lyrics about black men.

      Now we know
      2018 - jesy posted a picture with dreads, got called out for it, loads of blackfishing and cultural appropriating comments, picture gets deleted by her
      2019/20 - Someone close to Leigh Anne has confirmed a few days ago that they tried to educate Jesy for about 2 years, but she didn't wanted to listen
      2020 - Jesy revealed in that ig live with Nicki that Leigh Anne called her out for blackfishing on the set of Sweet Melody, leaves the group soon after. According to someone from LM' team Jesy left the group by not showing up for work, blocking the girls from calling and messaging her when she didn't show up.

      2021 - Jesy releases single and gets accused of blackfishing once again. First gives an interview where she is completely suprised and ensures 'she never wants to hurt anybody' or something around those lines. Few days later changes up story and says 'I never saw comments because my team 'protected' me and shielded me from the comments.

      And that is what irks me personally. If this is really who she feels she is and is really what she feels she should represent than have been honest since the beginning. This twisting and turning, the lies, hardly speaking herself, while she is fully aware that she has upset Leigh-anne and most likely the rest of her 'sisiters' and part of her old team and the girls inner circle. But if she is okay by that, then just be honest and be explicit about it. I would personally not be able to support that but I would 'respect' the honesty at the least, but she really has created an avalanche with trying to stay silent and act brand new.

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      • #53
        Jesy laughing whilst Nicki slagged off Leigh Anne (in a desperate bid to bring attention to anything other than her and her husband’s lawsuit), yikes…

        She’s thrown away 10 years with Little Mix for a solo career that will be over before the end of this year
        Fiat 500

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        • #54
          She could've done this so differently and still get LM and their fans support. She chose to be a toxic person and she's getting what she deserves. I don't believe her mental health issues, not when she collaborates with one of the biggest bullies ever.
          Cha Cha Instructor

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          • #55
            It does feel a bit weird that Leigh hasn't come out and said anything yet.for 10 year LM have been that group that were clearly very close and for it to get so messy and nobody from their camp speak up....mese
            Uk the only way

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            • #56
              I don't really agree that you can't or shouldn't be offended if you're white. That's bull. If you're not offended by blatent blackfishing then you're complacent.
              Rolling back the rivers in time...

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              • #57
                Originally posted by muzik_biz_wiz View Post
                It does feel a bit weird that Leigh hasn't come out and said anything yet.for 10 year LM have been that group that were clearly very close and for it to get so messy and nobody from their camp speak up....mese
                Leigh just had twins though, she probably has different priorities

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                • #58
                  Originally posted by BehindBreakaway View Post
                  I don't really agree that you can't or shouldn't be offended if you're white. That's bull. If you're not offended by blatent blackfishing then you're complacent.
                  You can find blackfishing distasteful and problematic, but it’s not a white person’s position to be personally offended by it.

                  For example, I could find derogatory comments about women disgusting and completely inappropriate, but I’m not personally offended by them because I’m not a woman. It doesn’t mean I’m complacent.

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                  • #59
                    Originally posted by biscuits View Post

                    You can find blackfishing distasteful and problematic, but it’s not a white person’s position to be personally offended by it.

                    For example, I could find derogatory comments about women disgusting and completely inappropriate, but I’m not personally offended by them because I’m not a woman. It doesn’t mean I’m complacent.
                    Why does a white woman being extra tanned and having an afro/braids get to you so badly? I see you liking every post against what I write and don't see how what is being referred to as "Blackfishing" effects you.

                    Not being offended doesn't make to complacent, it makes you a regular person because 99% of the planet wouldn't care about tanning levels and hairstyles.

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                    • #60
                      Originally posted by Ewokguy15 View Post

                      Why does a white woman being extra tanned and having an afro/braids get to you so badly? I see you liking every post against what I write and don't see how what is being referred to as "Blackfishing" effects you.

                      Not being offended doesn't make to complacent, it makes you a regular person because 99% of the planet wouldn't care about tanning levels and hairstyles.
                      Excuse me, but I am one of the very few members on this forum who doesn’t disagree with everything you say and tries to give you the benefit of the doubt.

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                      • #61
                        Originally posted by BehindBreakaway View Post
                        I don't really agree that you can't or shouldn't be offended if you're white. That's bull. If you're not offended by blatent blackfishing then you're complacent.
                        Zero tolerance for : bigotry, racism, wilful ignorance.
                        Pronouns: He / Him

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                        • #62
                          Originally posted by biscuits View Post

                          Excuse me, but I am one of the very few members on this forum who doesn’t disagree with everything you say and tries to give you the benefit of the doubt.
                          Yeah but you actually post replies, they just like everything like a "Blackfish" hating Ninja.

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                          • #63
                            Originally posted by Ewokguy15 View Post

                            Why does a white woman being extra tanned and having an afro/braids get to you so badly? I see you liking every post against what I write and don't see how what is being referred to as "Blackfishing" effects you.

                            Not being offended doesn't make to complacent, it makes you a regular person because 99% of the planet wouldn't care about tanning levels and hairstyles.
                            I mean several people have tried to explain time and time again why we think it's wrong and why blackfishing in general is wrong. You've chosen to ignore everything. I didn't feel the need to comment the same thing that's been said over and over.

                            Also, is that not what the like function is for? Liking comments you agree with? also, it's not personal, I like any comment against things I disagree with. If you just happen to be involved in those comments, then that's a you problem..
                            Rolling back the rivers in time...

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                            • #64
                              Originally posted by BehindBreakaway View Post

                              I mean several people have tried to explain time and time again why we think it's wrong and why blackfishing in general is wrong. You've chosen to ignore everything. I didn't feel the need to comment the same thing that's been said over and over.

                              Also, is that not what the like function is for? Liking comments you agree with? also, it's not personal, I like any comment against things I disagree with. If you just happen to be involved in those comments, then that's a you problem..
                              I didn't say it was personal . . .

                              This is all personal opinions, I am actually really curious why what is being referred to as "Blackfishing" effects you or bothers you?

                              I hadn't even heard of that term until 6 months to a year ago and continue to find it ridiculous, why is sharing culture an issue now when it hasn't been for the past 10,000 years of Human history.

                              Raven from Drag Race is now getting shit for painting and tanning too dark when she looks more like an Egyptian from 2000 years ago than a Black person, I just can't with all this craziness.

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                              • #65
                                Originally posted by Ewokguy15 View Post

                                I didn't say it was personal . . .

                                This is all personal opinions, I am actually really curious why what is being referred to as "Blackfishing" effects you or bothers you?

                                I hadn't even heard of that term until 6 months to a year ago, why is sharing culture an issue now when it hasn't been for the past 10,000 years of Human history.
                                Well I'd say by saying 'I see you liking every post against what i write' you think it'd personal.

                                I think any form of racism, whether that's unconscious bias, blackfishing, using a blackcent ect should bother anyone. And I don't actually understand why you'd need someone to explain why casual racism in all its forms is bad.. And you say you're curious why, but people have explained why. Several times. You're either still really curious or just clueless at this point.
                                Rolling back the rivers in time...

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                                • #66
                                  Originally posted by BehindBreakaway View Post

                                  Well I'd say by saying 'I see you liking every post against what i write' you think it'd personal.

                                  I think any form of racism, whether that's unconscious bias, blackfishing, using a blackcent ect should bother anyone. And I don't actually understand why you'd need someone to explain why casual racism in all its forms is bad.. And you say you're curious why, but people have explained why. Several times. You're either still really curious or just clueless at this point.
                                  I was curious about your personal opinion, other people had actually expressed their opinions, not just likes other peoples.

                                  How is embracing another person's culture racism? it's literally the opposite of Racism, that what I can wrap my head around, we live in a day and age when embracing and showing love for another culture is classed as racism (by a small but vocal portion of the population).

                                  I have had this conversation with quite a few people over the past week and pretty much everyone I've spoken to isn't seeing any issues or couldn't care less, maybe that's an Australian/New Zealand thing?

                                  I'm from a country (New Zealand) where we embrace the Maori culture, we dress up in Maori clothing in school, learn Haka's and the Maori language, I grew up around Maori people and now should I not be allowed to celebrate the Maori culture because I'm not naturally Brown? seems weird.

                                  Celebrating someone else's culture should be celebrated, it shows the world is going forward and not backwards.

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                                  • #67
                                    Originally posted by Ewokguy15 View Post

                                    I have had this conversation with quite a few people over the past week and pretty much everyone I've spoken to isn't seeing any issues or couldn't care less, maybe that's an Australian/New Zealand thing?
                                    I think Australia has a lot of problems with racism and poor treatment of the indigenous population that is still a major issue.

                                    I’m not personally offended by ‘blackfishing’ as it doesn’t directly impact me. But if a group/culture are annoyed at someone making money off their culture/race when they themselves experience abuse/discrimination due to their culture/race then that sounds like a problem. I think most people in their daily lives aren’t ‘profiting’ from others cultures so it’s less applicable. Celebrities potentially are.

                                    I also think it’s important that we stand up for underprivileged/minority/historically abused groups rather than take a neutral stance. History has taught us this.
                                    You say that I must eat so many lemons, cos I am so Bitt-er

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                                    • #68
                                      We need to be clear and not many want to be honest about this. Most who are called out for "blackfishing" do not want to look Black. They want to look Mixed or Latina. Most people wouldn't dare ask to look Black.

                                      There are also some Black women out there that try to look Mixed as well. There are many Black girls that try to stand there eyes with makeup and wear wigs with "baby hair". I call it "Mixed-Fishing."

                                      Nobody wants to be themselves.

                                      Last edited by HouseTargaryen; Wed October 13, 2021, 06:26.
                                      Diva!!!

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                                      • #69
                                        I think it is also good to sometimes realise what kind of priveledge we have. And I am not only talking about white priveledge. Also about the priveledge to grow up in a certain place, to live in a certain place, to work in a certain environment and be surrounded by certain people.

                                        I grew up in a rather sheltered neighbourhood. Went to dominantely white school and have always been surrounded by white people. Ofcourse you meet other people but when you don't hang out with them, their lives and struggles are not something you fully focus on. When my parents divorced a few years ago, my mother started dating a guy from Egypt. He is now my stepfather, great guy. But I already had prejudice, that quickly fade away after getting to know him. But it also opened my eyes to a lot of things I was sheltered from or didn't fully was aware of. My stepfather looks as Arabic as it can get and even though I knew racism/discrimination was a thing, that I knew racial profiling was a thing. The moment you experience it closeby and see someone you love struggle with it, your eyes get opened. The way my stepfather has been dragged from public transportation in Amsterdam and the security/enforcement questioned him whether his bike was his or stolen, and my stepfather took a big file from his back, filled with reciepts from his belongings, because he already was used to having to do that. Or when I was shopping with my mother and my stepfather in Ikea and I didn't had to show my bag, my mother didn't had to show her bag, but my stepfather was hold back and needed to sort out every small pocket of his backpack.

                                        On the other side I worked with a colleague who is maroccan and she has never faced discrimination in the Netherlands, but she grew up in a diverse neighbourhood, went to study and the bubble she lived in, never had to deal witht hat stuff. And she also says she feels priveledged that she was born in that area and never had to face that, also because her parents were fortunate financially etc.

                                        That is also what makes the Jesy situation so weird to me. She worked with Leigh-Anne for almost a decade, she worked multiple times with MNEK in those 9 years, she was made aware by fans it hurted them most explicitely starting in 2018. Leigh-Anne and the girls has been with her side through all her mental health stuff, they all have been through so much. And for some reason her personal preferences outweights the hurt from someone who has been by her side all these years and other people close to them. I couldn't imagine doing that, especially not when it seems it is just for monutary gain.

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                                        • #70
                                          Jesy got absolutely dragged in this Independent article, which I think summarises the whole situation very well

                                          The former Little Mix star’s debut solo single has been met with derision and allegations of blackfishing. Roisin O’Connor explains why Nelson should have brushed up on her history before going it alone
                                          Fiat 500

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                                          • #71
                                            Teen Vogue and the telegraph have similar articles.
                                            Rolling back the rivers in time...

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                                            • #72
                                              Originally posted by Ewokguy15 View Post
                                              I'm from a country (New Zealand) where we embrace the Maori culture, we dress up in Maori clothing in school, learn Haka's and the Maori language, I grew up around Maori people and now should I not be allowed to celebrate the Maori culture because I'm not naturally Brown? seems weird.

                                              Celebrating someone else's culture should be celebrated, it shows the world is going forward and not backwards.
                                              I think the biggest problem whenever a topic such as this gets discussed is that there are always people who either blur the lines or don’t even distinguish between cultural appropriation and cultural appreciation. In the eyes of some, the latter seems impossible, because they get offended as soon as someone embraces any aspect of a foreign culture. That’s not the point and totally missing the mark.

                                              But this here is not about Jesy liking R’n’B or a dark tan. It is about her (apparently) purposefully trying to look and sound racially ambiguous in order to appeal to a wider audience.
                                              You previously mentioned black women straightening their hair, lightening their skin, etc, but I honestly can’t think of any black woman who, as a result, didn’t look like a black woman anymore.

                                              I have never paid attention to Little Mix, up until recently I had no clue who Jesy Nelson is or what she looks like, but from this music video I would’ve never guessed that she is white. And while I’m the last person to tell anyone what hairstyle or clothes they can or can’t wear based on their race, it does feel weird when the whole package looks and sounds entirely non-white. Like it is either extremely calculated for marketing purposes (thereby profiting of a foreign culture without having to face the discrimination that comes along with it) or a case of identity disorder. Either way, it seems to go way beyond her simply liking “urban” looks and sounds.

                                              Certainly not comparable to you learning Maori language or the Haka.

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                                              • #73
                                                I’ll sum up everyone’s opinion: “I’m offended!”

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                                                • #74
                                                  Originally posted by SpyVsSpy View Post
                                                  I’ll sum up everyone’s opinion: “I’m offended!”
                                                  That’s not true at all, if you actually read the whole thread.

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                                                  • #75
                                                    Don't like her, don't support the product. She is being backed by Diddy and Nicki, and apparently her label. I do find it a bit cringe worthy, but I don't think she is hurting anyone by paying homage to the 00s Rap/R&B aesthetics, supported by at least a huge icon of those times.

                                                    Again, isn't it a good sign of the times if someone wants to look black? Doesn't it mean that looking black is a good thing in someone's eyes?
                                                    I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
                                                    I'm in the shadows in the corners of my room

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