War in Ukraine

[Rihab]

irresponsible move

[mykka]

Terrible

[GreekGeek]

This mushroom-like explosion is terrifying to watch.
Some say that at that site were stored depleted uranium bombs given by the UK...
https://news.yahoo.com/gigantic-fire...200459329.html

[stevyy]

The west should not escalate the war by sending long range missiles.

[theMathematician]

stevyy : Too little too late...

[stevyy]

stevyy : Too little too late...

not with weapons that could reach Russia. I mean if Ukraine can do it on their own... so be it, but foreign powers should not support that.

[theMathematician]

The argumentation from the pro weapons side had been 'providing heavier and heavier weapons = giving Ukraine the right to self-defense in order to protect European values' right from the start. There have been critics that warned that this could escalate, but they either were not heard or labeled as pro Russia.

[Michiel]

I support it tbh. Of course it is scary as to which this can accumulate to, but I also have trust in our leaders. Which might silly to some. I am ok with the trade-off for a myriad of reasons.

[Artoo]

I really don’t see the issue. Russia has assaulted Ukraine with almost everything it has and now we’re worried about the Ukraine being able to retaliate in kind? I don’t know how far Zelensky intends to take it, but Russia needs to be made aware that it isn’t a case of waiting the war out for a victory - Ukraine has friends and will use everything it can to force Russia’s hand to end the war.

I still believe that peace talks and negotiations are ultimately the only way forward (because this isn’t the dark ages where one side will surrender and the other claim total victory), but something substantial needs to change, such as Ukraine being able to launch a counteroffensive. Ukraine shouldn’t have to go down this road, and it’s worth remembering that. Russia started it, and you reap what you sow.

[theMathematician]

I really don’t see the issue. Russia has assaulted Ukraine with almost everything it has and now we’re worried about the Ukraine being able to retaliate in kind? I don’t know how far Zelensky intends to take it, but Russia needs to be made aware that it isn’t a case of waiting the war out for a victory - Ukraine has friends and will use everything it can to force Russia’s hand to end the war.

Do you think this is a realistic goal after all? I have doubts about that.
At this point, everyone knows that what Russia has done is highly wrong - from a legal point and from a humanistic point. However, I've come to the conclusion that a free Ukraine on paper means nothing if the whole population is wounded, traumatized or dead. An occupied Ukraine is not the worst scenario if it prevents further suffering imo.

[Artoo]

Life has no meaning if it’s not of your own choosing.

[jordi_89]

It's either that or Ukraine will cease to exist in the long run. Tbh I'm fine with that.

[Rihab]

From a psychological perspective, I'm extremely intrigued by people who:

• must be aware that they themselves would be among the first to be sent to Siberian camps if Putin got his will
• but still tell others that letting Putin win is the best option

Are they too dense to see the former? Or too egoistic / incapable of sympathy to care when it's not their own life that's going to sh*t? Dumb or psychopathic, which one is it?

[Artoo]

From a psychological perspective, I'm extremely intrigued by people who:

• must be aware that they themselves would be among the first to be sent to Siberian camps if Putin got his will
• but still tell others that letting Putin win is the best option

Are they too dense to see the former? Or too egoistic / incapable of sympathy to care when it's not their own life that's going to sh*t? Dumb or psychopathic, which one is it?

I mean it’s basic fight or flight isn’t it? If childhood is to blame for everything, I’d argue it’s probably a reflection on how they dealt with bullies growing up.

[franklex]

The argumentation from the pro weapons side had been 'providing heavier and heavier weapons = giving Ukraine the right to self-defense in order to protect European values' right from the start. There have been critics that warned that this could escalate, but they either were not heard or labeled as pro Russia.

Damn what do you mean? So when Ukraine did not have long range missiles russia did not send missiles into civilians, they have stopped, thed did not anex more regions??? Damn, what do you mean? Do you understand that the only thing that russia is can do is only a nuclear strike? Or declare a war on Nato... "critics" are idiots that live in their own fantasies and helping russia to erase Ukraine and stopping Ukraine from libiration its own therithory and people.

And they labled pro russian becose no reason if they are stupid or idiots if it work for russia to achive their goal.

[franklex]

I support it tbh. Of course it is scary as to which this can accumulate to, but I also have trust in our leaders. Which might silly to some. I am ok with the trade-off for a myriad of reasons.

This is scary when people are spending their times in caffes and clubs, but after a year at wa with russia you stat to see that russia already used all it could. All those nuclear threats ars useless, if they would like to find a reason to use it, theey would find it already or imagine it anytime without any prove.

btw thnks for support, at least someone here is against this stupid positions of creazy war let russia beat Ukraine but no no Ukraine you should not response just get destroyed we will supporting you.

[franklex]

Do you think this is a realistic goal after all? I have doubts about that.
At this point, everyone knows that what Russia has done is highly wrong - from a legal point and from a humanistic point. However, I've come to the conclusion that a free Ukraine on paper means nothing if the whole population is wounded, traumatized or dead. An occupied Ukraine is not the worst scenario if it prevents further suffering imo.

Can you tell me what happened to the people of Donbass that russia occupied? You do not understand that if russia will occupied Ukraine locals here will be taken for others wars that russia is planning, damn... This position of let russia beat Ukraine over and over without seriouse actions like long range missiles, firejets and NATO integration only allows this madness to freaze in time and let russia to attack uUkraine over and over while someone can not decide to help. This will make more and more people leave Ukraine, and the resst will not able to resist, so russia will occupy all of Ukraine with people that will "enemies" for russia and without any protection.... I am just wondering what do you think will happened next?? Dont you think about "Camps of denazification" or "prisioners" that will join russian army...

[franklex]

Biden tells G7 allies the US will support joint F-16 training effort for Ukrainians

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/05/19/p...ine/index.html

If someone will think that this is anothe irresponsible move, then here what I would tell:

Almost week ago, Ukraine fall down russian the newest firejets and very impostant helicopters on russian therithory near the border. In public, we do not know what hit them, but there is a buzzle that they ve got catched with PATRIOT system that ukrainians located nearby the border and it reached those firejets all togeether withing 20 mins. And it seems like it were a risk if it works Ukraine go next if doesnt then the West would say they did not know about it, but never belive in this due to what happened next. So:

First. Ukraine shut down 2 modern russian firejets, russians hiding this information and do not understand how and with which weapon type.
Second. When they probably finding out this they do massive missile stricke on Kyiv with 6 super sonic missiles that russia never send somuch at the same attack and never to the one specific location.
Next. PATRIOTS shut down all super sonic missiles and Kyiv shows 100% resistance on latest russian missile attacks.
Futher. The west start seriouse talks on the firejets for Ukraine. The Netherlands, the Uk and now the US are on board.
Meanwhile russia have arrested scientist that worked on russian super sonic missiles that petentially should go pass throught american airdefense systems and make a nuclear threat to anyone.

So now in Ukraine is a "safe" place that can hold firejets that are needed for ukraine's offencive compaign and russian can do nothing with it.

[franklex]

The images of starving people fetching food at distribution points in Britain are shameful.

Italy's ice cream parlors closing because they can't afford electricity is maddening.

All this for fascist slavs to kill themselves and self-destruct...

And we still have a gay man celebrating here on the forum like it's a board game.

It is the photograph of a moment of Global North that the rest of the planet shows total disapproval, such as Brazil, India, China, Arab countries, black Africa, etc.

Omg, concentared russian propaganda, again! Damn.

And, this gay man is not celebrating, this gay man living under shellings and any time can go to the war, this is you playing in board game in you caffes on the other side of the globe! And telling us about some mysteriouse nazis and some mysteriouse nationalist that concuer polish region and you do not name it was soviet army that occupied also Baltic states and also took a fight with Finland. but you tell us about some ukrainian nationalist that come from Ukraine wich was occupied an rulled by Russia.

I do think that you are just another russian troll, knowing nothing about Poland or Ukraine, probably not even Brazilian, If I am wrong then here area some news for you:


Zelensky Attends Arab League Summit in Saudi Arabia
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/19/w...di-arabia.html

India's Modi to meet Ukraine's Zelenskiy on sidelines of G7 summit
https://www.reuters.com/world/indias...18-2023-05-19/

Global North I just assume that news spreads in some regions with lower speed.

[franklex]

The central issue is that the entire European population is making an extraordinary effort to support this war, even if it helps a country with a hybrid regime and on paths of fascistization.

Poland will be able to take the region that was taken from it in a future division of that country that has become crumbs, if the war does not reach a viable solution to the Ukrainian National State.

At the moment, everyone's goal is to weaken the greatest enemy, which is and always has been the Russian Empire.

So place of Russia will take Poland? And become another agressor??? This is what do you think about Poland? And please do not response on this I alredy know what you will tell better read this:

Mariusz Paździora - Own work 1. Eugenjusz Romer POWSZECHNY ATLAS GEOGRAFICZNY, Książnica-Atlas, Lwów-Warszawa 1928 (mapa 48 ludność) 2. ATLAS HISTORYCZNY POLSKI, PPWK Warszawa-Wrocław 1998 (mapa na str. 46 narodowości).

[SholasBoy]

Kind of infuriating that Putin says the drone attack on Moscow is an act of terrorism and that Ukraine are trying to frighten the Russian people…after everything Russia has done in Ukraine over the last 18 months.

[Wayne]

It appears as though the promised major counteroffensive from Ukraine might have begun (Ukraine will not announce it). Already, Russia has its spin doctors in the media stating that the offensive has failed in the Donetsk region, with 250 Ukrainian soldiers killed, with no comment from Ukraine.

I hope it isn’t true, and I hope the counteroffensive is successful as if it isn’t, I don’t know how much longer the rest of the world will be willing to wage their own proxy wars with Russia (it’s a terrible thing to say but countries like the US, the U.K. have major elections coming up and in the next 12-18 months and war doesn’t play well in elections).

Ukraine should not be forced to cede any territory and the west should support it until it wins but Ukraine needs to prove it is able to win back its territory with this counteroffensive.

[Artoo]

I hope not. You never know with what Russia say.

[jio]

My honest opinion is that the European Union should have been an honest mediator in this and not a side of the war supplying Ukraine endlessly with weapons and now with attack fighter jets thus escalating the fight. Ukraine is not part of the European Union or NATO for us to be bound with any collective defense treaty with them, it is just another country that has been invaded contrary to international law (just like Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Syria, Georgia and so on and so forth). I do agree that it was of paramount importance for Russia to sustain some level of defeat on the battlefield, as well as sanctions but those should have been used along with leverage on the Ukrainian side (which clearly has its share of the blame as well) so the two sides can sit down and reach an agreement. However, the goal seems to be total defeat for Russia and total win for Ukraine. That would leave Ukraine in shambles but it would also prove Putin correct in that Ukraine did pose a lethal threat for Russia in the first place. Interestingly we have:

1) unprecedended strengthening for NATO and the US role in Europe
2) total dependence on western powers for arms supply as all Russian/Soviet-made weapons NATO countries had, have been given to Ukraine
3) total european dependence on USA and its non-european allies for gas supply in increased cost (funny thing is that some such as Saudi Arabia is buying cheap Russian oil while selling the EU expensive Saudi oil)

Meanwhile the EU continues shifting to the right, whereas refugee camps funded by the EU have increasingly become prisons of the worst kind in most places, Ukrainian refugees are giving free pass in the EU in a (successful) attempt for the Ukrainian public opinion to continue supporting this war.

My opinion has always been extremely low for all the right-wing leaders of the EU of the past 10 years or so, but the "left" shift in the US funnily enough has led us to the worst war since Bush Jr., albeit just because the democrats are in lead now, nobody talks about endless lives lost and violations of human rights that could have been avoided, had the west just chosen to be an honest broker.

This isn't about human rights and international law at all. If any of us would care about that we would have been looking at Palestine or at Syria first.

[Artoo]

My honest opinion is that the European Union should have been an honest mediator in this and not a side of the war supplying Ukraine endlessly with weapons and now with attack fighter jets thus escalating the fight.

The EU isn’t a military or defensive union, so wasn’t it just member states supply items? I can’t remember that far back, but The EU has no say over who member states support militarily as it isn’t a part of the treaties (as far as I’m aware).

However a more basic truth exists - Ukraine is a sovereign nation recognised by almost every nation in the world. When Iraq was invaded, for example, nobody wanted to redefine its borders and remove it from the world map. Russia wants to remove Ukraine. That is something worth fighting for and I’m very pleased the UK and other countries have helped provide Ukraine with the materials it needs to protect and defend itself.

History has taught us you cannot (and should not) erase a nation, a people, or a culture. Russia wants to do all three. Forget politics, this war is about the very right to exist. How exactly could the EU stand by and let that happen on its doorstep?