War in Ukraine

[franklex]

Mainshow what nato could do is a provide no-fly zone over western Ukraine to protect any missile riches Nato lands and secure western part of Ukraine. I guess Ukraine will very agreed on that.

[Mainshow]

Mainshow what nato could do is a provide no-fly zone over western Ukraine to protect any missile riches Nato lands and secure western part of Ukraine. I guess Ukraine will very agreed on that.

Honestly, that´s the bare minimum Nato should provide and do now.

[franklex]

Looks like Russia is checking Nato. Few kilometers can be a mistake. But not so much. So operator that program coordinates should put a way wrong or he put those he wanted. If missile go out of coordinates it falls. But seems like those were exploded according to locals. So it is a test for Nato. Also that happened hrs ago. So seems like the west knows it wasn't a mistake. They just need a time to discuss response.

[Mainshow]

[franklex]

Honestly, that´s the bare minimum Nato should provide and do now.

I am not sure about that it will happened. We will hear again why we should help Poland it is poor not democracy enough or let's do not escalate or let's talk with putin and so on...

But for selfish reason, nato could do it. And for Ukraine it would be selfish too to allow this at least west of the country would be in safe

[Mainshow]

I am not sure about that it will happened. We will hear again why we should help Poland it is poor not democracy enough or let's do not escalate or let's talk with putin and so on...

But for selfish reason, nato could do it. And for Ukraine it would be selfish too to allow this at least west of the country would be in safe

Latvia already proposes anti-aircraft defence for Poland and some parts in Ukraine.
I honestly believe that after attacking Poland twice today, they need to act (It doesn´t have to be article 5 which would be too extreme, indeed, but NATO needs to make sure that their citizens are safe).

[Mainshow]

Orban/Hungary has convened a special meeting. RuZZia attacked some oil pipeline delivering oil to Hungary:

[Mainshow]

Nato ambassadors to have article 4 meeting on Wednesday - reports


Nato ambassadors will meet on Wednesday at the request of Poland on basis of the alliance’s article 4, two European diplomats have told Reuters.

According to article 4 of the alliance’s founding treaty, members can raise any issue of concern, especially related to the security of a member country.

Investigations continue into the circumstances around an explosion in Przewodów, near Poland’s border with Ukraine that killed two people.

One of the diplomats said the alliance would act cautiously and needed time to verify how exactly the incident happened.

Russia-Ukraine war: Poland raises military readiness after two die in blast within borders following Russian strikes across Ukraine – live (theguardian.com)

[jordi_89]

Orban/Hungary has convened a special meeting. RuZZia attacked some oil pipeline delivering oil to Hungary:

Lol if Hungary finally switches sides it'll be interesting.

[arab]

Some polish media claim/speculate KH-101 missle hit in Poland. I don't know, but it looks strange to me - 450kg and it only destroyed an agricultural tractor?

[Mainshow]

Some polish media claim/speculate KH-101 missle hit in Poland. I don't know, but it looks strange to me - 450kg and it only destroyed an agricultural tractor?

Were were lucky it didn´t hit the residential building nearby

[arab]

[arab]

NATO doesn't know anything hours after this "incident", Ukraine confirms Russia attacked Poland. Hmmm...I have a feeling they won't tell us the truth. I don't believe that the USA has no knowledge of what happened.

[GreekGeek]

^Just like the Nord Stream situation. Russia didn't do it because after all this time we would have an official statement blaming Russia. Someone else did it, so they burried that topic.

In other news, the missiles that hit Poland, according to Biden, weren't likely launched by Russia but from Ukraine.
https://www.euronews.com/2022/11/16/...me-from-russia

Yesterday almost everybody was talking about NATO going officially to war with Russia and the world was on fire once again. In that rushing logic, NATO should attack Ukraine now. Right? Don't get me wrong but I'm really fed up with people rushing in conclusions without evidence ot at least official statements.

At the end of the day, it's devasting that two more innocent people died as a result of this ongoing war. As the days go by, I believe eastern Ukraine situation is going to be similar to Gaza strip.

[arab]

Nov 16 (Reuters) - Initial findings suggest that the missile that hit Poland was fired by Ukrainian forces at an incoming Russian missile, Associated Press reported on Wednesday, citing U.S. officials.
https://www.reuters.com/world/poland...an-2022-11-16/

So who tells the truth. Zelensky confirmed "minutes" after accident that the missile was fired from russia. Now this (exactly what I expected, tbh)...

[Mainshow]

No one in this thread suggested NATO to attack RuZZia and even on Twitter, people demanded a loud and clear response but refrained from attacking RuZZia.

And honestly, such response is still needed.
The missile was Russian-made and just got fired towards one of the 100+ missiles which RuZZia shot to delibaretely kill civilians and destroy Ukrainian cities all over the country. RuZZia attacked Ukrainian cities close to the borders of NATO members on purpose. That's a fact.
NATO still has to make sure that their citizens are safe and thus, it still need to have consequences...like establishing a no-fly zone or providing some anti-aircraft system for Poland and surroundings.

Why should the Eastern part of Ukraine become a new Gaza stripe? Most people living in Eastern Ukraine are ethnically Ukrainians and supported the independence from the Soviet Union and RuZZia and Ukraine is already getting parts of their territories back... that's why RuZZia committed another acts of genocide yesterday and just shot 100+ missiles on Ukraine without making sure where they are going to fall down. RuZZia got frustrated and they are trying to seel the destruction if Ukrainian cities as "victories in RuZZia".
Let us not forget that Ukrainians also died yesterday.

Poland's response of evoking article 4 was the right response.
After Moldova, Croatia and Poland...such incidents can happen again and NATO needs to react and act. It doesn't have to be directly target at RuZZia (like users also mentioned it in this very thread).

[SholasBoy]

So if a Russian missile had strayed into Polish territory we would be looking for some form of retaliation. But if it turns out it was a Ukrainian one, what happens now? It’s written off as an accident?

[franklex]

^Just like the Nord Stream situation. Russia didn't do it because after all this time we would have an official statement blaming Russia. Someone else did it, so they burried that topic.

In other news, the missiles that hit Poland, according to Biden, weren't likely launched by Russia but from Ukraine.
https://www.euronews.com/2022/11/16/...me-from-russia

Yesterday almost everybody was talking about NATO going officially to war with Russia and the world was on fire once again. In that rushing logic, NATO should attack Ukraine now. Right? Don't get me wrong but I'm really fed up with people rushing in conclusions without evidence ot at least official statements.

At the end of the day, it's devasting that two more innocent people died as a result of this ongoing war. As the days go by, I believe eastern Ukraine situation is going to be similar to Gaza strip.

That you claim that russia didnt do it "without evidence ot at least official statements".
No on called to go with war. You do deny that russia is making attack where it wants and people lik you ignore it.
Euronews for a long time is pro russian media in EU. Biden didnt say what you wrote.
similar to Gaza strip. yeah but "strip" with 1200km wide... very similar. And It can be possible if people like you do nothing to solve it but instad only say that all this is bad and wwrong and what you should not to do, And not ask Russian to stop all that it started.

[Mainshow]

So if a Russian missile had strayed into Polish territory we would be looking for some form of retaliation. But if it turns out it was a Ukrainian one, what happens now? It’s written off as an accident?

Again, RuZZia is the one to ultimately blame here and that´s the official statement from your prime minister as well.

What you guys have to understand (who are trying to turn this around by saying that "now, it was Ukraine, what should we do? retaliation? attack Ukraine?") (Sorry for just addressing you now but I blocked that other user above).... Ukraine had to use such missiles to counterattack the 100+ missiles being shot at Ukrainian cities.
It´s not the first incident or "accident" that Ukraine shot down a RuZZian missile and it landed in another country´s territory.
What should Ukraine be doing? Not firing anti-aircraft missiles at RuZZian ones which might have killed their civilians?

It´s clearly something serious which needs some "retaliation" coming from NATO - Again, like all members agreed on this last night - it doesn´t and shouldn´t be like "attacking RuZZia" - but it can be something like sending an Iron Dom or anti-aircraft systems for Poland and other countries bordering Ukraine and such systems could also partly defend Ukrainian grounds.

To put it simple... imagine someone kicks balls at you, targeting your head.. what are you going to do? - You will probably protect your head by placing your hands/arms around your face or you´re trying to push the balls... one of the balls you just pushed away (to protect your face) accidentally hits a child now (that kid was standing nearby).... who fault was it?

Neither Poland nor NATO did blame RuZZia for actively shooting/attacking Poland´s territory. They didn´t do it last night and they aren´t doing it right now, btw.

But it´s clear that this wouldn´t have happend if RuZZia hadn´t committed another act of genocide by firing 100+ missilies into Ukrainian territory without knowing what´s going to happen (they know that their missiles won´t hit "only" military buildings. they know that Ukrainian got some kind of air defense, they also targeted Ukrainian cities in the West...)

[franklex]

So if a Russian missile had strayed into Polish territory we would be looking for some form of retaliation. But if it turns out it was a Ukrainian one, what happens now? It’s written off as an accident?

No you can always say that Ukraine is a true evil that tried to protect itself from massive missile strike. You know, Ukraine is just everyday strikes rockts into Poland with no reason and just for fun. And dont get wrong, it is not a responsible of Russia. Ukraine should do nothing just meet russian misiles with hugs.
**SARCASM**

Or prefered for me case maybe Nato declare a war to Ukrain and will invade Ukraine, this also will end Russian war. Ukraine will be in Nato.

[Mainshow]

Sunak gives wholehearted support to Ukraine and Poland


UK PM Sunak says yesterday at the G20 summit fellow leaders "confronted" the Russian foreign minister with the "illegality of his country's war" in Ukraine.

"Barely two hours later," he says that more than 80 missiles rained down on western Ukraine, "killing civilians and destroying infrastructure".

He says while other leaders were working together, "Putin was launching indiscriminate attacks on Ukraine."

He says an urgent meeting of allies has taken place to "underscore solidarity" with Ukraine and Poland, and said he has offered his "wholehearted support" to Poland.

"None of this would be happening if it weren't for Russia's invasion of Ukraine. This is the cruel and unrelenting reality of this war," he says.

Ukraine war latest: Allies trying to establish facts behind Poland missile hit, says Rishi Sunak - BBC News

That´s the consensus among European leaders - RuZZia is to blame because they also put civilians of NATO members in danger by arbitarily shooting tons of missiles - not knowing if they really hit their "targets" - some of them were aimed at residential areas or committing acts of genocide (hospitals, dams, energy) BUT all members of the EU/NATO (Macron, Sunak,Biden) showed solidarity to Poland and Ukraine, condemned the attacks but also addressed it that "one has to wait until we know all facts".

Anyway, it´s still a dangerous situation and it just shows that NATO needs a better way to protect their citizens.

[Mainshow]

It’s written off as an accident?

It´s not treated as "an accident".

There have been security meetings in several countries (Latvia, Lithuania, Estonia, Poland, Hungary) to discuss the security threat. They all think of different measurements to protect their regions/citizens - Poland has already reacted by border controls. military readiness.

Latvia by demanding an airdefense system for Poland and (Western) Ukraine.

Germany just offered to protect Poland´s air space by supporting the country´s air surveillance

[GreekGeek]

By that point of view we can exclude Greece from the EU. EU will still have all that it has ven without Greece. Or we can by that point exclude almost any country in the EU.

I dont know about othr countris but I know how poor was Poland before 2000s.... Ukrain is Poland of thos years.

I like you, greeks you never beeing in Ukraine and reading only russians propaganda about Ukraine...

1. U are clearly denying that Ukraine brings it lands back.

2 U r saying about how poor is Ukraine ignoring that in the SU it was the 2nd strongest economy. And the only reason that Ukraine is poor now is what russia is doing to Ukraine for a few decads. I would lik to see greek's conomy under the war. Ukraine's economy falls only when russia is attacking Ukraine look 2007-2008 (gas wars), 2013-2014 (Crimea and Donbas) and 2022 now. Even now Ukrainian conomy starts to grow.

You are just much poor then Ukrain and are afraid that EU founds will no longer to go to Greece but to Ukraine instead.

3. Stupid to read that you say "Ukraine destroyed by a war" you do ignore that if we take max 25% of therithory of Ukraine was somehow in the war actions then 75% keep being NOT destroyed. this is like a whole Spain or Sweden or 6xGreece. But u say lik a whole Ukraine is just destroyed....

You're once again attacking another person and overreacting to an opinion different than yours. The truth is that the EU, whose part is also Greece, is sending constantly funds to help Ukraine with this war. So, please stop talking nonsense because at this case you're being unnecessarily harsh.

[Mainshow]

Poland´s president just announced that the missile has likely been shot from Ukrainian ground.
Duda also said that there were no signs of "an attack of Poland".

source: Krieg gegen die Ukraine: + Polen geht von ukrainischer Rakete aus + | tagesschau.de

[franklex]

Here is a photo of Poland's RAT-31DL FADR radar at Łabunie.
This radar is 40 km from Przewodów, where the missiles exploded.
That radar is barely 10 years old and has a 11x7 m antenna. It is one of the best radars NATO has. And it feeds directly into the Polish Air Force's Air Operations Centre in Pyry.
The Poles see in real time EVERYTHING that flies towards their country from the East for 500 km.

Poland knows EXACTLY where those missiles came from.

AND Pyry feeds directly into NATO's Combined Air Operations Centre Uedem.

NATO knows EXACTLY
where those missiles came from.

And the US has a Patriot battery at Rzeszów, which also covers the area of the missiles impacts.

The US knows EXACTLY where those missiles came from.

And there was an AWACS plane in the air... in short: Poland and Ukraine know that if they lie about the missile's origin the US & NATO would all know they lie.
But Poland called the russian ambassador in & asked for Article IV, and the G7 got together for an emergency meeting.

Poland, G7, NATO would not do all this if this was just an errant interceptor missile.

(c) Thomas C. Theiner https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1592699714180632576