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Streaming leads music industry first growth in 20 years

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  • #26
    Originally posted by menime123
    People tend to forget that piracy didn't happen just because it could - it happened because a casual music fan simply can't afford to spend £10 a month on every album they want.
    People pay this and more on the daily at Starbucks alone

    There's just simply no reason to buy something you can get for free. Nothing to do with music not being affordable

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    • #27
      Music only became affordable in the digital era. In Australia in 2000, a single was $5-8, an album was $20-30... no music fan could consistently fork out that kind of money. Thus why I paid for very little, mainly only albums of my favs, between 2000 and 2008.

      Even now, I think $2.19 (standard single price in Australia digitally) is a bit steep. Albums are affordable now in my opinion (most new releases are $11-15).
      Come Play: GUESS THE VIDEO!

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      • #28
        Originally posted by stevyy
        youtube is the devil.. you can easily download everything and anything from there. it needs to be shut down.

        btw vinyl is the future.
        Gosh you're such a grandma hell to the no at YouTube being shut down...its also where people upload their personal videos you know?
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        The FIRST user to have a thread beat Mariah on the Ukmix Hot 100

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        • #29
          YouTube is life tbh <3
          Come Play: GUESS THE VIDEO!

          Comment


          • #30
            Originally posted by JimJim
            Spotify is life tbh <3

            Comment


            • #31
              I only think the Spotify for free just leads the new entitled generation to believe they are entitled to everything for free.

              Singers make their music to sell it.
              The next person to tell me I won't pay because they already have money bla bla bla, I want to go to where they work, a restaurant or a chain store and demand the product they are selling because they already have money.
              “B**** come here! B**** come here! B**** come here!”

              “I’m staying right here.”

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              • #32
                Originally posted by menime123

                I'll never understand why people are against streaming. Streaming is a platform that provides access to your music - music you need people to hear so that they want to spend money on seeing it performed live. Making music should be seen as an investment, a tool that allows you to put on shows and perform. I don't believe you need to make money from music sales (and let's face it, that's why manufactured pop happened) - you make it from ticket sales.
                nobody is really against it, but it should be allowed to say that singles streams (and download) don't say anything about the album - or the popularity of an album - hence it should be allowed to criticize SPS and the inclusion of singles streaming towards albums sales or pretending like they were actually sales. I mean sales and streaming are apples and oranges, you cannot say one is like the other.. you simply can't. renting a movie is not the same as buying the dvd. and when you stream a show weeks/months later, it also isn't refelcted in an TV show's weekly audience either.. but somehow music is the exception and artists are proud of their new "sales" and present themselves in a manner i find cringe-worthy - better said, their labels are acting as if this n that albums sold this n that amount when it hasn't. It's cringeworthy. I am against that - not against streaming per se.
                My Chart

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                • #33
                  I do think streaming is one of the factors (not the only one) that reflects popularity towards a song, album or artist these days.

                  The industry works very different now and I think a healthy combination of all: Streaming, Sales and Radio reflect overall popularity in the current market.
                  Rock lives forever: Led Zeppelin . Metallica . Pink Floyd . Nirvana . Radiohead . Pearl Jam . Oasis . Iron Maiden . Nine Inch Nails
                  Approved Popstars: Michael Jackson . Madonna . Britney Spears . Beyoncé . Rihanna

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                  • #34
                    Originally posted by MrLeonix
                    I do think streaming is one of the factors (not the only one) that reflects popularity towards a song, album or artist these days.

                    The industry works very different now and I think a healthy combination of all: Streaming, Sales and Radio reflect overall popularity in the current market.
                    that may be true, but it doesn't solve the problem that streams aren't sales. And that we don't have a methodology in place which could reflect albums streams and thereby determine an albums popularity. In the 90's you didn't combined singles sales and albums sales for the albums chart either.
                    My Chart

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                    • #35
                      Originally posted by stevyy
                      that may be true, but it doesn't solve the problem that streams aren't sales. And that we don't have a methodology in place which could reflect albums streams and thereby determine an albums popularity. In the 90's you didn't combined singles sales and albums sales for the albums chart either.
                      Well, the thing is that before, sales were pretty much the only factor that could measure if an album, song or artist was popular. But we can't change the fact things are getting different now and there's a significant amount of music consumers that are using streaming services.

                      And yeah Streaming are not real sales but is one of the ways of consuming music these days and also one of the factors that reflect popularity in the current market. So maybe the charts is what needs to be changed. They need to stop doing charts sales-oriented and trying to pass streaming as sales. What they need to do is simply a "Points" system that properly ballances Streaming and sales and through simply points the charts reflect which songs, albums and artists are the most popular. Changing sales for "points" in this current industry is what I suggest.
                      Rock lives forever: Led Zeppelin . Metallica . Pink Floyd . Nirvana . Radiohead . Pearl Jam . Oasis . Iron Maiden . Nine Inch Nails
                      Approved Popstars: Michael Jackson . Madonna . Britney Spears . Beyoncé . Rihanna

                      Comment


                      • #36
                        In an ideal world I completely, and utterly believed sales were the only true measure. But buying music is no longer has the largest market share when it comes to recording how people are listening to music. I disagree radio plays should be included in a chart position, but methods where people have to actively select the music they want to listen to - streaming, sales, YouTube etc - they should be included.
                        Queuing for Girls Aloud reunion tickets since 2013

                        #FreeBritney

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                        • #37
                          Originally posted by menime123
                          In an ideal world I completely, and utterly believed sales were the only true measure. But buying music is no longer has the largest market share when it comes to recording how people are listening to music. I disagree radio plays should be included in a chart position, but methods where people have to actively select the music they want to listen to - streaming, sales, YouTube etc - they should be included.
                          sales do still have the biggest market share in most music markets around the globe. 75% of all music revenue comes from sales in Germany and Japan because those 2 markets rejected the digital age from the get go. The second and third biggest music markets on the planet have one of the smallest digital markets - or a digital music industry which doesn't reflect their international standing. The US and UK basically dominate the digital era with HUGE sales and streams while other big players are digitally underdeveloped. It is still an oddity if a single sells close to 1m copies in Germany (even if we include streams percentages).. and what does the #1 song on Itunes Japan sell? 10,000 copies?
                          My Chart

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                          • #38
                            Originally posted by stevyy
                            Originally posted by menime123
                            In an ideal world I completely, and utterly believed sales were the only true measure. But buying music is no longer has the largest market share when it comes to recording how people are listening to music. I disagree radio plays should be included in a chart position, but methods where people have to actively select the music they want to listen to - streaming, sales, YouTube etc - they should be included.
                            sales do still have the biggest market share in most music markets around the globe. 75% of all music revenue comes from sales in Germany and Japan because those 2 markets rejected the digital age from the get go. The second and third biggest music markets on the planet have one of the smallest digital markets - or a digital music industry which doesn't reflect their international standing. The US and UK basically dominate the digital era with HUGE sales and streams while other big players are digitally underdeveloped. It is still an oddity if a single sells close to 1m copies in Germany (even if we include streams percentages).. and what does the #1 song on Itunes Japan sell? 10,000 copies?

                            Well I don't know figures because, frankly, it's not something I'm hugely interested in, but I don't think you can look at revenue to determine how people are consuming music because we all know streaming pays a pittance.
                            Queuing for Girls Aloud reunion tickets since 2013

                            #FreeBritney

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                            • #39
                              well, but the fact that 1 billion streaming users across all available formats couldn't overtake physical/digital sales revenues says a lot, don't you think? So i don't get why the music industry tries to ignore us oldies who contribute the most. All of their measures as of late to strenghten streaming negates the importance of buyers. If all buyers would simply stop buying music, the industry would collapse in a heartbeat - like an oil state without oil left to sell.

                              the industry tries to paint a picture of streaming being the future and hip and important while insinuating that those who buy music are old, stubborn and probably anti-music and anti progress. And yet, it is still OUR industry, which WE keep alive.

                              the music industry has an image problem, it tries to sell itself to the teens - musically, artistically and financially. Hence, ageism has become a thing. The industry doesn't support veterans, and yet catalogue sales are dominating US albums sales. Why? Because 12 y.o. are the most fickle music audience while the oldies are the most robust. But we lack representation within the music industry.
                              My Chart

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                              • #40
                                I believe people find it easier to stream things (even if they pay a subscription)....without streaming most people would just download music illegally anyway, in general not many people would actually buy a CD or even an mp3 on iTunes or so...the fact is that music sales are going down anyway, and streaming was a way to adapt to that fact to allow people to have a different alternative from downloading things illegally...while also making at least a portion of the revenue that typical music sales had....better than nothing..
                                Follow Me On Instagram

                                The FIRST user to have a thread beat Mariah on the Ukmix Hot 100

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                                • #41
                                  Originally posted by stevyy
                                  well, but the fact that 1 billion streaming users across all available formats couldn't overtake physical/digital sales revenues says a lot, don't you think? So i don't get why the music industry tries to ignore us oldies who contribute the most.
                                  Because no one cares except a bunch of chart frea...ehm, geeks.

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                                  • #42
                                    Originally posted by ArmyOfMe
                                    Originally posted by stevyy
                                    well, but the fact that 1 billion streaming users across all available formats couldn't overtake physical/digital sales revenues says a lot, don't you think? So i don't get why the music industry tries to ignore us oldies who contribute the most.
                                    Because no one cares except a bunch of chart frea...ehm, geeks.

                                    No, I think charts will always be popular - they can demonstrate where a society is at and music will always be an important part of culture.

                                    The fact there can be 1 billion streams and still the revenue is smaller than an actual sale shows exactly how people prefer to engage with music now and anyone entering the industry needs to know they cannot make their millions just by selling music - it's about retaining the publishing rights etc and making sure you can back up our music with a live show.

                                    In the UK there are no rules on what can and cannot rechart (in terms of older releases) so the chart is still very much demonstrative of attitudes towards music - we just need to adjust how we determine who has 'sold' what.

                                    To be honest I'd rather the UK abandon calling them sales and think of an alternative.
                                    Queuing for Girls Aloud reunion tickets since 2013

                                    #FreeBritney

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                                    • #43
                                      Regarding the idea of artists not making money... seen ticket prices lately? Artists with one album are charging more today than legends did 25 years ago even with inflation. They aren't starving by any measure.
                                      My top 100 artists (2018 edition)

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                                      • #44
                                        Sometimes I feel like I am the only one who don't use Spotify, Apple Music etc.
                                        Whitney Houston

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                                        • #45
                                          Originally posted by NothingFails
                                          Regarding the idea of artists not making money... seen ticket prices lately? Artists with one album are charging more today than legends did 25 years ago even with inflation. They aren't starving by any measure.
                                          To me, seeing Michael Jackson is the perfect example. Saw him in 1988, he was 20 years into his career, the biggest star on the planet and in the middle of a recordbreaking #1 streak off Bad (Man In The Mirror went #1 the week after I saw him), great seats... $22.50.... inflation today would be $50. Today you couldn't get at the back of the nosebleeds and park and everything for $50 for someone that level.

                                          So don't cry for artists "losing money" when tween stars on their first album charge more for general tickets than the King Of Pop did with inflation when he was still #1.

                                          It's why I'm very selective about the artists I see live... someone like Madonna or Springsteen have earned their expensive ticket, some random act on their second or third album and will play less than an hour hasn't IMO. You should earn your concert ticket worth, and IMO $200 with one album out isn't "paying your dues"
                                          My top 100 artists (2018 edition)

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                                          • #46
                                            always on point, John. <3
                                            My Chart

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                                            • #47
                                              This thread aged well, especially during a pandemic.

                                              Just found this article in Forbes:

                                              If You Think Music Streaming Is The Devil, Think Again

                                              It seems like a week doesn't go by without someone from the "old music business" complaining about how small the royalty checks are these days and blaming it all on music streaming. Never mind that the music business paradigm was way different 20 to 50 years ago. Never mind that the music person making noise doesn't believe in aging out. Never mind that the person has no idea how the music streaming business works today. Never mind that their opinions are based on misinterpreted or inaccurate data. To them, it was better back then and it's pretty crappy now.
                                              The False Premise


                                              I think the biggest blind spot in this argument is that just because you had some success and consistent revenue way back when, that it would be the same today even if the business was still based on physical product sales and had not moved into digital. Tastes change and the ones who consume music most have always been in the 12 to 30 year old range. After that, life gets in the way, and no matter how much you may love music, you just don't have the same time and energy to listen. That means that the music veteran who's seen his or her income fall falsely blames streaming when it was going to diminish anyway regardless of the consumption model.

                                              To illustrate, I have a friend who's written several hits for a legendary 60s-70s rock star who recently complained about the fact that the labels are no longer putting out greatest hits albums. Every couple of years in the past one label or another would find a new way to repackage the same songs and sell it once again to more or less the same fans. My friend received a nice royalty check whenever that happened. No more, as you can only sell the same product so many times to the same people (or are consuming less as they get older as well. Not only that, physical product sales continue to fall, the album holds less importance than ever before, and today's listeners care more about playlists anyway.

                                              (...)

                                              FULL ARTICLE: https://www.forbes.com/sites/bobbyow...-is-the-devil/
                                              2019 Year End Charts: The 20/20 Experience

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                                              • #48
                                                In the US, older artists have troubles selling records, this is not the case in Europe though, so more of a local tendency. Regarding greatest hits albums: It depends on the artist. Abba or Bob Marley sold so much of their biggest greatest hits albums, I'm sure they've been sold by all demographics, not just the same people again and again. But yeah, one greatest hits album is enough, not the same album released with 10 different names.
                                                Is it offensive to fall in love with you and everything you do
                                                and everything you stand for?
                                                Could I break through your invisible wall, could I hide my pride for once,
                                                just to tell you that I see more?

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                                                • #49
                                                  Originally posted by theMathematician View Post
                                                  In the US, older artists have troubles selling records, this is not the case in Europe though, so more of a local tendency. Regarding greatest hits albums: It depends on the artist. Abba or Bob Marley sold so much of their biggest greatest hits albums, I'm sure they've been sold by all demographics, not just the same people again and again. But yeah, one greatest hits album is enough, not the same album released with 10 different names.
                                                  rarely anyone releases or released (in the past) the same GH album over and over again. There are remixes, rarities, new songs, remastered songs etc on many of those "same" releases.

                                                  For multi-generational artists - so called legacy acts, who have released music in like 3-6 decades... one GH album truely isn't enough. Imagine Madonna only having TIC (1990) and missing out on all her 90s / 00s hits - and the woman had plenty.

                                                  Thence... for acts like her and other genre acts... it was quite reasonable to release multiple hits packages.

                                                  My Chart

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                                                  • #50
                                                    Originally posted by stevyy View Post

                                                    rarely anyone releases or released (in the past) the same GH album over and over again. There are remixes, rarities, new songs, remastered songs etc on many of those "same" releases.

                                                    For multi-generational artists - so called legacy acts, who have released music in like 3-6 decades... one GH album truely isn't enough. Imagine Madonna only having TIC (1990) and missing out on all her 90s / 00s hits - and the woman had plenty.

                                                    Thence... for acts like her and other genre acts... it was quite reasonable to release multiple hits packages.
                                                    The most famous example is The Eagles Greatest Hits album. One of the best selling albums of all time and it doesn't even include "Hotel California," one of their biggest hits.

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