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  • #26
    And then AfD gets 50.1% on a night of a low turnout and marches on
    Waffles are checked cookies

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    • #27
      Erdogan will be happy about this
      Cha Cha Instructor

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      • #28
        Originally posted by heppolo
        And then AfD gets 50.1% on a night of a low turnout and marches on
        This won't happen.
        Even though many foreigners like to joke about Germans being "Nazis" and so on, we haven't had a single right-wing or nationalist party in our parliament for decades while our neighbouring countries usually vote way more right-wing and conservative than we do.

        AfD will be "successful" and I'm quite sure that they will reach 10+ % but I still have faith in my fellow citizens. I'd even say that half of our population argue that CDU is already too "right". We won't have a Trump/Szydlo/Orbán/Brexit/Le Pen scenario here.
        Mainshow Goes Diva: Kylie Minogue

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        • #29
          Queen. I hope she slays the far-right.

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          • #30
            Why is she so loved in Germany???
            Please Stop the Music

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            • #31
              Originally posted by Crackiswack
              Why is she so loved in Germany???
              Is she?
              2019 Year End Charts: The 20/20 Experience

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              • #32
                Mainshow, I agree.

                In addition, AfD would need to find a partner to reign, and I don't think any party is here for that.
                2019 Year End Charts: The 20/20 Experience

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                • #33
                  Originally posted by KokoCollino
                  Originally posted by Crackiswack
                  Why is she so loved in Germany???
                  Is she?
                  Not sure.
                  She clearly was but I have the conception that she's partly the reason why socieites in Germany and Europe got divided and why nationalism is on the rise again.
                  I wouldn't say that she's "so loved"; there are people who respect her; people who think she's a great leader; people who think that there's no real alternative and that's why it has to be Merkel and there are clearly people who dislike her a lot. I'd say that the cimate in Germany is diverse and mixed when it comes to Merkel.

                  The foreign, English-speaking press seem to be in love with her at the moment (especially after Trump's surprising victory) but she's clearly not that well-received among Germans.
                  Mainshow Goes Diva: Kylie Minogue

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                  • #34
                    Ok thanks, I don't understand how the European systems work with these.
                    Please Stop the Music

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                    • #35
                      Originally posted by Crackiswack
                      Why is she so loved in Germany???
                      I cannot talk about Germans (which is what you asked) but I can talk about other Europeans. I think she is admired and respected as a very strong leader with staying power at a time when the vast majority of EU leaders cannot get a second term. But what she represents as policy and vision is generally not liked. It's a bit like respecting Madonna for her staying power but hating all her songs.
                      jio CHARTS NOW:30/3/2020: https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...5#post10369614

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                      • #36
                        Originally posted by KokoCollino
                        Originally posted by Crackiswack
                        Why is she so loved in Germany???
                        Is she?
                        Not anymore

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                        • #37
                          Will be following this but skipping stevyy's posts.

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                          • #38
                            Originally posted by Mainshow
                            Originally posted by heppolo
                            And then AfD gets 50.1% on a night of a low turnout and marches on
                            This won't happen.
                            Even though many foreigners like to joke about Germans being "Nazis" and so on, we haven't had a single right-wing or nationalist party in our parliament for decades while our neighbouring countries usually vote way more right-wing and conservative than we do.

                            AfD will be "successful" and I'm quite sure that they will reach 10+ % but I still have faith in my fellow citizens. I'd even say that half of our population argue that CDU is already too "right". We won't have a Trump/Szydlo/Orbán/Brexit/Le Pen scenario here.
                            That sound very optimistic to me... in the current climate I wouldn't be surprised if the AfD rakes in huge numbers. Thankfully, no one will form a coalition with them, so were pretty much safe. But their numbers will be shocking, I think.

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                            • #39
                              Originally posted by LittleLinda
                              Originally posted by Mainshow
                              Originally posted by heppolo
                              And then AfD gets 50.1% on a night of a low turnout and marches on
                              This won't happen.
                              Even though many foreigners like to joke about Germans being "Nazis" and so on, we haven't had a single right-wing or nationalist party in our parliament for decades while our neighbouring countries usually vote way more right-wing and conservative than we do.

                              AfD will be "successful" and I'm quite sure that they will reach 10+ % but I still have faith in my fellow citizens. I'd even say that half of our population argue that CDU is already too "right". We won't have a Trump/Szydlo/Orbán/Brexit/Le Pen scenario here.
                              That sound very optimistic to me... in the current climate I wouldn't be surprised if the AfD rakes in huge numbers. Thankfully, no one will form a coalition with them, so were pretty much safe. But their numbers will be shocking, I think.
                              To be honest, high numbers of AfD wouldn't shock me; especially since members from CDU, SPD and Grüne like to insult people levelling criticism on Merkel, to make references to a wish for Dresden to be bombed (because all inhabitans are Nazis), flipping the bird to citizens, etc.

                              I just hope that people will understand that voting for the right-wing party AfD is NOT AN ALTERNATIVE.
                              IF people want to make a difference and if they are pissed off by the conduct of well-established politicans, they should go and vote for the underrated and promising FDP & DIE LINKE which will also bring a wind of change; Germany needs a rationally-thinking opposition led by politicans who respect the citizens.

                              That being said, AfD might get some higher numbers in Eastern parts of Germany but I can't see them getting more than 10% in highly populated areas in the Western part, that's why I think that stevvy's estimation of AfD getting %16 is more likely (but also a bit "over-the-top"); everything more like 12% would make me sick to my stomach and would be really shocking.

                              ALSO, Germany usually has a large ballot (70-85%)..unlike the US in which half of the population didn't vote. That's also a plus which is helpful to not let right-wing parties rise.
                              Mainshow Goes Diva: Kylie Minogue

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                              • #40
                                Originally posted by Wayne
                                Will be following this but skipping stevyy's posts.
                                Wise idea.

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                                • #41
                                  I think the AfD could get 15-20%, with the possibility of overtaking the SPD as the #2 party in Germany; and I think they have a chance to become the #1 party in Eastern Germany. The #2 slot in Eastern Germany should be safe for them.
                                  2019 Year End Charts: The 20/20 Experience

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                                  • #42
                                    Originally posted by KokoCollino
                                    I think the AfD could get 15-20%, with the possibility of overtaking the SPD as the #2 party in Germany; and I think they have a chance to become the #1 party in Eastern Germany. The #2 slot in Eastern Germany should be safe for them.
                                    it depends because that party lives off the fear of people and bad news... so if the situation in GER in regards to refugees continues to relax then they will lose their main point of why anyone would vote for them. In early 2015 the AfD was about to dissolve bc nobody reacted to their pessimism because nobody perceived the situation as dire as they claimed it to be. I don't think that the AfD has staying power. It is good for now, but once Angela doesn't make any more mistakes, it is done.

                                    For that to happen, Angela must:

                                    1) keep the refugees in Turkey and strategize their immigration to Germany
                                    2) keep Greece quiet and manage the fiscal crisis of the South
                                    3) keep Russia and USA from tearing each other apart
                                    4) give the UK a great farewell package from the EU while not damaging the EU's reputation in other countries
                                    --

                                    not in her hands:
                                    5) keep France from voting for Front National

                                    In my estimation she should make Mrs May her strongest ally and keep her great relationship with France on lock. Those 3 countries together can influence global affaires like no one else can.

                                    I always wonder why Europe never really uses its power anymore. The big EU countries: UK, France, Spain, Italy and German share so many values and are basically unbeatable when they combine their forces... not in a military way, but in a soft-power way.
                                    My Chart

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                                    • #43
                                      Originally posted by stevyy
                                      Originally posted by KokoCollino
                                      I think the AfD could get 15-20%, with the possibility of overtaking the SPD as the #2 party in Germany; and I think they have a chance to become the #1 party in Eastern Germany. The #2 slot in Eastern Germany should be safe for them.
                                      it depends because that party lives off the fear of people and bad news... so if the situation in GER in regards to refugees continues to relax then they will lose their main point of why anyone would vote for them. In early 2015 the AfD was about to dissolve bc nobody reacted to their pessimism because nobody perceived the situation as dire as they claimed it to be. I don't think that the AfD has staying power. It is good for now, but once Angela doesn't make any more mistakes, it is done.
                                      Fear makes people vote conservative. If you're scared of the future and want things to stay as they are, you won't vote for the far-right or the far-left which stand for 'change' / risks / experiments.

                                      Right now, I don't think there's a lot of fear in this country, though. And that's why AfD is thriving. What I got from talking to people who said they'd vote for AfD is not that they're afraid of refugees, surprisingly not even afraid of Islam (which has been here for decades) or terrorist attacks. They're just pissed off because the government is spending 'their' money on 'other' (brown) people, not them. It's pure anger and selfishness. They don't vote with conviction, they just want to 'send a message' to the establishment, remind them that we still have fat, balding, 40-60 year-old, straight, white, Christian, male farmers, truck drivers and construction workers in this country.

                                      I believe it's the same with Trump, Brexit, Front National, Hofer and Wilders supporters. I don't think they're scared of anything in particular, just angry and selfish.

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                                      • #44
                                        That fear we are talking about had also been provoked and established by Merkel's latest policies. If the supposed conservative party who is also in power is held to be responsible of the current situation, people will vote differently and not the same party.

                                        There is clearly a fear of the political islam around.You are right that Islam has been part od the German society for decades now and that it has never been a problem but we have a status of increasing Muslim findamentalism, reports of attacks by refugees/immigrants/Muslims on a weekly basis at the moment and the fact that salafists don't get really punished (Wuppertal Sharia police, Düsseldorf razzia) isn't helping much. Or discussions by the Green party to abolish the Christmas tree traditions in order to not insult immigrants, etc.
                                        There's a huge difference between the Islam in the 70s in Germany and now. Even though we have a lot of peaceful and assimilated Muslim brothers and sisters, our politicans have clearly no working concept on how to deal with the ones who have chosen to harm Germany and the German society and European values.

                                        I used to vote for Merkel as well but surely, I won't do it this time
                                        (and no, I won't vote AfD).
                                        Mainshow Goes Diva: Kylie Minogue

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                                        • #45
                                          Originally posted by Mainshow
                                          That being said, AfD might get some higher numbers in Eastern parts of Germany but I can't see them getting more than 10% in highly populated areas in the Western part, that's why I think that stevvy's estimation of AfD getting %16 is more likely (but also a bit "over-the-top"); everything more like 12% would make me sick to my stomach and would be really shocking.
                                          They certainly have Saxony on lock (25 %): http://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inla ... 39303.html
                                          Numbers in NRW etc will certainly be lower, but given Brexit and Trump, I wouldn't be too sure about anything.

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                                          • #46
                                            Originally posted by Mainshow

                                            I used to vote for Merkel as well but surely, I won't do it this time
                                            (and no, I won't vote AfD).
                                            finally ^^
                                            I am not trying to seduce you... Would you like me to seduce you? Is that what you're trying to tell me?

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                                            • #47
                                              The worst thing about our political parties right now is the SPD. The SPD has lost all of its core values on all issues. The fact that the AfD was even possible is the fact that the SPD is so weak. I see a lot of similarities between 1933 and today actually. Because back then the SPD was weak as well and their intellectual approach to problems pales in comparison to these quick solutions that the AfD proclaims.

                                              I perceive the AfD as an anti-democratic party. I resent nationalism so much bc of what it did to our country between 1933-1945. How could anybody play with fire like that again? I mean look at what they propose, look at their people and representatives, the AfD is not only conservative, it is dangerous, racist and hardcore nationalistic.

                                              I once voted for them btw, when Bernd Lucke led the party, when they criticized Merkel's austerity measures and tried to fix the Eurocrisis. They had some great visions back then. They wanted to give Greece a debt-cut. That was reasonable in my opinion.

                                              But then Lucke left and this awful woman, Frauke Petry, took over the party and steered into the abyss. The SPD could have changed their points of views and actually propose measures to improve life of families and workers, but they were busy licking Merkel's butt. It's a shame. And if they nominate Gabriel for chancellor then I can see the SPD falling below the 20% mark bc that guy - who for example called the Egyptian leader a "great man" - is unfit to govern anything, including his backyard.

                                              If I would have been a member of parliament of the SPD, I would have resented the PKW-Maut as if it was a matter of life and death. I would never form a coalition with the CDU - that was their biggest mistake. One can only hope that when the AfD makes it into the parliament in 2017, that at least the FDP will make it as well.
                                              My Chart

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                                              • #48
                                                Uh, I don't think we can blame SPD for the rise of AfD. Exit polls from the last few state elections have shown that SPD is not losing as many voters to them as the other parties (CDU and The Left especially). The reason why SPD looks weak (22-24%) right now is because they've lost voters to the Greens and the Left since 2013. They're now at 13% and 10% respectively, when they were both well under 10% in 2013. We have a very strong left-wing in this country today (45%+), it's just split into 3 parties.
                                                Merkel is the one to blame for the rise of AfD, cause she took her centre-right party further and further to the left over the last 16 years and left a vacuum on the right.

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                                                • #49
                                                  Of course, the SPD can be blamed for the rise of AfD as well. They are part of the current government and they sit in the same boot like CDU when it comes to pleasing or annoying the people of Germany.
                                                  Also, SPD hasn't done anything seriously promising or energetic against the PKW-Maut, Gabriel verbally attacked Seehofer in 2015 because the latter demande an "Obergrenze" (limit) for refugees. In 2016, Gabriel demanded the same thing. - Also, even though the SPD demands the same-sex marriage, they haven't really tried to push it even though theoretically, there would be a majority in favor of the same-sex marriage in the Bundestag.
                                                  SPD's Öney, the minister of integration, has levelled criticsm on the latest razzias and ban of a highly Muslim fundamentalist community which had been known to the public, the authorities for years that they try to attract young people and refugees and make them go to Syria to fight for the IS.
                                                  The SPD has become a laughing-stock because of the reasons stevvy and I have mentioned. I can't take a party seriously who works against their real identity. They come across as weak not because of "many voters voting for other parties" but because of their representative. I had a huge respect for the SPD years ago but lately, they have been very useless.

                                                  Also, CDU is NOT a "right" party and has never been one. There's a difference between a "right-wing" party and a "conservative" one. The thing is that the CDU has lost their conservative points of views on many aspects and have drifted into a left kind of way (I agree with you, Rihab, on this one). That's also another reason why Germany does not need a SPD at the moment and that's why that party can be blamed because they haven't really found a way of expressing what they want, what they really stand for and to make it clear to their voters.

                                                  I guess that some people have the feeling that they aren't capable of making a difference to what CDU demands + they do not have a strong, charming leader like CDU, Die Linke, FDP or the Green Party.

                                                  I also have the impression that the SPD hasn't been that weak since over a decade.
                                                  Mainshow Goes Diva: Kylie Minogue

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                                                  • #50


                                                    German Greens pick Göring-Eckardt and Özdemir to lead party in election
                                                    The two party leaders have been nominated by grassroots members. Özdemir's election signals a potential Green coalition with Merkel's Christian Democrats.


                                                    Germany's Green Party announced Tuesday morning that Cem Özdemir and chairwoman Katrin Göring-Eckardt will lead the party into September's parliamentary elections.
                                                    Though she already had the position sealed because of the Green party's one-man-one-woman rule in its leadership positions, Göring Eckardt confirmed her place with an impressive 70.63 percent of the membership vote.
                                                    But the battle among the men for the other role was much tighter. Co-chair Cem Özdemir fought off parliamentary leader Anton Hofreiter and Robert Habeck, environment minister and deputy state premier of Schleswig-Holstein, by an extremely slim margin: Özdemir took 35.96 percent of the vote, to Habeck's 35.74 percent - a gap of only 75 votes. Hofreiter came third with 26.19 percent.
                                                    Some 59 percent of the Green party's 61,000 members took part in the vote.
                                                    "This is the right duo for this time," said Michael Kellner, the Greens' general manager, as the results were announced. "They were both formed by the severe breaks of our time," he added - in other words, Göring-Eckardt was born in East Germany, while Özdemir grew up as the son of an immigrant family.


                                                    Germany's opposition Left party unveils 2017 candidates
                                                    The socialist Left party, the biggest opposition faction in the Bundestag, has presented its two leading candidates for the 2017 election. But can Sahra Wagenknecht and Dietmar Bartsch counter the populist right threat?


                                                    It took a "very animated and lively discussion," according to one of the party's leaders, but after a slight delay on Sunday, the socialist Left party settled on its two parliamentary leaders Sahra Wagenknecht and Dietmar Bartsch (pictured above) as challengers to Chancellor Angela Merkel in next September's general election.
                                                    But the pair won't have it all their own way. As part of the compromise, the election campaign will also be run by the party's two chair-people - Bernd Riexinger and Katja Kipping (the speaker of the above quote at the press conference, and rumored to have fought bitterly with Wagenknecht over the candidacy). "We now have the hope and the ambition to go into action together," the latter added. Riexinger, meanwhile, spoke of fighting for a break in the neo-liberal politics dominating Europe.
                                                    The long negotiations over the leadership question revealed a split between the Left's parliamentary faction and its grassroots. Insider accounts in the German media suggested that the quartet-plan represented a compromise for Wagenknecht and Bartsch, who had previously told their colleagues that they would only accept the candidacy if they had total control of the election campaign - an ultimatum that garnered them some criticism from the party members.
                                                    Smart choices imo.

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