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Michael Jackson expose docu "Leaving Neverland"

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  • What the hell???
    Britney Spears • Janet Jackson • Christina Aguilera • Michael Jackson • Selena Gomez • Hilary Duff • Taylor Swift • Justin Timberlake

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    • Wow... Political correctness out of control.
      I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
      I'm in the shadows in the corners of my room

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      • I hope dan reed chokes on it. Only in America... can a fictional movie be awarded in the documentary category. So for all we know, The Blair Witch Project was a documentary as well.
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        • Some of y'all just defend MJ way too hard. Also, the fact that a home was reconveyed without satisfaction of the note should be a huge red flag. These particular accusers have questionable credibility, sure, however that doesn't make their stories false automatically. This is a situation where you need to look at the facts the same way you would if MJ were a random nobody on the street, in which case I think prevailing opinions would be different.

          There are numerous patterns in MJ's behavior that are consistent with that of a serial pedophile. Why were these young boys always replaced with younger models when they came of age? Why did these "friendships" not continue in a meaningful way as the boys reached adulthood? If we are just talking about a case of peter pan syndrome, why were no young girls around (at least to the extent of these boys)?

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          • [MENTION=67436]WEBofDESIRE[/MENTION] their stories have a lot of incongruencies and false details. Those are facts. Don't know if MJ did something or not, but these guys are proven liars. Thus, the documentary is a farse, given the number of exposed lies it contains. Anyone else should be defended from accusations like these. The media keeps promoting this because they want to keep cashing in on his name.
            I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
            I'm in the shadows in the corners of my room

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            • Documentary =/= truth though.
              I have received many gifts from God,
              but this is the first time I have ever received a gift from a goddess
              .

              Don McLean on Madonna's version of American Pie

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              • [MENTION=25215]DnBLover[/MENTION], true that these accusers have provided no indisputable evidence. The flip side of that coin, is that when someone is acquitted of a crime they are not proven innocent, but merely presumed innocent due to the lack of evidence to prove guilt. My point wasn't so much that he was guilty, but just that too many that love his music refuse to see the situation at all. His behavior was beyond odd to say the least.

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                • Originally posted by WEBofDESIRE View Post
                  [MENTION=25215]DnBLover[/MENTION], true that these accusers have provided no indisputable evidence. The flip side of that coin, is that when someone is acquitted of a crime they are not proven innocent, but merely presumed innocent due to the lack of evidence to prove guilt. My point wasn't so much that he was guilty, but just that too many that love his music refuse to see the situation at all. His behavior was beyond odd to say the least.
                  Odd behaviour is not something illegal or something to fabricate a story around. Why did the media not pick up Mariah allegedly urinating on her assistant or #Me2-ing her manager and bodyguards by running around in her home naked.

                  His behaviour seemed odd to the outside... nobody knows who he was when there was no camera. Just because one can assume the worst doesn't make it a fact in reality.

                  The story you were trying to spin of there being no girls is just what the media told you to think when there are tons of images and videos with girls, girls who also slept in his bedroom.

                  Every MJ fan would agree with the notion that he was not normal and lived no normal life. But I think that a lot of that has to do with just how famous he was... he literally couldn't be around random people for the sole reason of him being out and about in public would stir mass hysteria among the public in that area. No other celebrity that we know today has or had that kind of restrictions. Ever since his 20s - when already was a legend in the entertainment industry due to his LONG career that began in 1969, he was surrounded by people who were selling him out and sold stories to tabloids.

                  There are dozens upon dozens of former employees out there being paid for stories about him.

                  My biggest problem with the whole documentary is not that they exposed his struggles, my problem is the amount of lying that is going on and which nobody in the media is addressing.

                  If he really were a pedophile and did all the things that those two individuals claim he was doing to them, there would be some sort of proof, also their stories wouldn't have evolved and changed as much as they did. I don't find them convincing for the sole reason of the heavy editing that was going on in the documentary and the lies that were exposed.

                  If you do not remember something, just say you do not remember it... don't invent a story which can be proven wrong so easily.

                  The fact that especially the two individuals in the film have never filed a criminal case, but only filed a civil one for money is so odd to me. The fact that all of their cases have been thrown out of court with Robson case even be laughed at by the judge speaks louder than the lies that Robson whistled.

                  Also why are the parents always so deranged and dubious? I mean what are they hiding? Even that Arvizo mother... all she had to do in 2005 in her court case was to appear sane and sad... and she couldn't even do that.

                  All that Jordan Chandler's dad had to do, was being sad and appear mentally sane. But... according to the phone snipped we have, he literally said that all he wants is milking him dry... like literally... he sad that.

                  All that Dan Reed had to do, was fact check his clients stories... and he couldn't even do that and for every lie that was exposed, he told a new one, going as far as testifying on behalf of Safechuck and Robson, like it suddenly became his story... and well... oh well... it somehow is his story now.

                  All of which Oprah had to do was talking about abuse in a sane and sincere way... and not calling for the GP to take out their pitchforks and lynch a black man. I will never forget how self-assured she was and how smug and how deranged and condescending she was. What a snake and utter sensationalist. All she saw were those $$ signs too. She didn't care one bit about the truth... she wanted to tell HER truth and slid into the conversation as if someone had asked her. What a tool. She is dead to me.

                  I find it sad that you were falling for all of this by blaming him - the victim - who brought it onto himself by being so "odd".

                  Reminds me of Jesse Williams' speech about racism:

                  But freedom is somehow always conditional here. “You’re free,” they keep telling us. But she would have been alive if she hadn’t acted so… free.

                  translated for Michael's case:

                  But innocence is somehow always conditional here. "You're innocent", they keep telling us. But he would have been more innocent if he hadn't acted so... oddly.
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                  • That's quite a wall of words there @stevyy.

                    There were girls around Neverland, but his chosen ones always seemed to be boys. There is countless video of him jet-setting with this boy or that one right at his side. And I agree that the parents should be ashamed to have ever put their children in this position to begin with, but they liked the money and perks that came with it. I can remember thinking this was ridiculous when I was only 10 or 11 years old.

                    It's best to look at these situations with the celebrity removed. MJ was a 30+ year old man that wanted the constant companionship of prepubescent boys. That in itself is so absurd that it makes allegations against him much easier to believe. But, like you said, oddities aren't illegal. And since most victims of rape (especially m/m rape where the victims do not identify as gay in adulthood) rarely come forward and often lie out of shame/embarrassment, it's difficult for evidence to exist. Although, if all this had happened a decade or two later, more things would have popped up IMO.

                    We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

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                    • Give it a few years, once the fan anger and reaction die down, some things will be clearer

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                      • The thing is, his image is tarnish forever at this point, no matter how much lying going on, people who watch that documentary believes it. I don't know how the Jacksons plan to counterattack that documentary, if they plan to do it, they have to do a monumental campaign.
                        Cha Cha Instructor

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                        • Imo an adult can talk about what happened to him or what someone did to him when he was 11 or 12 (for example), and it is very likely that he will get certain timelines or facts wrong. That doesn’t mean they’re lying. In MJ’s case, if its all about the money, why is it that no woman or girl has come out to accuse him of sexual abuse or predatory behavior?

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                          • Originally posted by SpyVsSpy View Post
                            Imo an adult can talk about what happened to him or what someone did to him when he was 11 or 12 (for example), and it is very likely that he will get certain timelines or facts wrong. That doesn’t mean they’re lying. In MJ’s case, if its all about the money, why is it that no woman or girl has come out to accuse him of sexual abuse or predatory behavior?
                            the narrative is that he was sexually abusing the kids up until they reached a certain age... however... in Safechuck's case... he is off by years and years... when he said, he had sex in the train station which was built 3-4 years after the timeline he was initially giving.

                            What is more credible... that he was simply mistaken when it occured or that the whole thing was a lie?

                            When it comes to Robson, he described encounters with Jackson when either he himself wasn't there or when MJ wasn't even in the country.

                            If times and places are not important in these cases... then anyone can claim anything at this point.

                            I mean when you are a murder suspect, but it turns out you weren't even in the country at the time that it occured, doesn't it say that you are innocent?

                            In Robson's case... he has edited his story so many times over that nobody knows what the truth is anymore, not even he himself... I mean when he and his family were visiting Mount Everest... Robson was claiming that the abuse started then and there... bc MJ sent his family on that trip to get him alone... but it now turns out that Robson's sister was also at Neverland and also slept in his bedroom... so what is the truth?

                            When Safechuck and the whole documentary claim that young boys were replaced after hitting a young age how could it be that he was abused as a teenager at 15 or 16 years of age when that train station was completed and opened?

                            It is a farce.
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                            • Originally posted by WEBofDESIRE View Post

                              We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
                              I think this is sad... bc when you have a case in which someone was a vivid defender of the accused for decades and then miraculously remembered that he was actually raped for years on end bc he became a father himself, I find this the most ridiculous story ever. In 2005, Robson was already in his 20s. He could have brought him to justice and save the Arvizos and give them solace... however... he didn't... how does that fit in one's consciousness?

                              Kids who were raped show signs of emotional distress. Robson must be one of those cases of people who were not phased by the occasional raping... well.. until he got money problems of course.
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                              • Originally posted by stevyy View Post
                                I think this is sad... bc when you have a case in which someone was a vivid defender of the accused for decades and then miraculously remembered that he was actually raped for years on end bc he became a father himself, I find this the most ridiculous story ever. In 2005, Robson was already in his 20s. He could have brought him to justice and save the Arvizos and give them solace... however... he didn't... how does that fit in one's consciousness?

                                Kids who were raped show signs of emotional distress. Robson must be one of those cases of people who were not phased by the occasional raping... well.. until he got money problems of course.
                                This kind of rape (statutory) can be consensual even though the victim is not of age to consent. A lot of times this will go unnoticed, it's not as traumatic as a forced assault, at least initially. Most of the victims are groomed to think they have a "special relationship" with the pedo, thus the psychological problems generally start after the victim is spurned (replaced with a new and younger victim). Why most assault victims choose to never come forward or do so years, often decades later, is a valid question. Though in the books I've read regarding the Catholic church, most of the victims are heavily coached to believe that any discovery of the relationship will effectively end the victims life along with that of the pedo.

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                                • Whether Michael Jackson is guilty or not, that documentary was utter rubbish and should not have won an Emmy. It's quite clear to me that it merely was recognized for its topic, not for being a quality documentary.

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                                  • In my opinion it’s thought-provoking that so many can judge someone on such a weak basis. It’s a bit scary that the facts matter so little to many people, if they early on have invested themselves in a guilty narrative. Of course we can’t say 100% for sure that MJ never abused anyone but you can’t say that about others either. MJ deserves to be presumed innocent in my opinion, but I have realised that many will continue to think otherwise.

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                                    • ^ People judge everything at every second. We couldn't function or survive otherwise. This includes making character judgements. While we shouldn't be out lynching someone on a personal hunch, it's also naive to think that no opinions should be formed other than those supported by the court. Life rarely presents us with truly unique situations or people, thus patterns of behavior can easily be placed in or outside the "normal" box based on prior experience.

                                      And that is perfectly okay.

                                      If some 35-40 year old dude moved in across the street and started taking an unusual interest in my children, I'm taking precautions to ensure he can't harm them and instructing them to stay away from the man (regardless of whether he has a record or not). It's normal.

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                                      • Originally posted by SpyVsSpy View Post
                                        Imo an adult can talk about what happened to him or what someone did to him when he was 11 or 12 (for example), and it is very likely that he will get certain timelines or facts wrong. That doesn’t mean they’re lying. In MJ’s case, if its all about the money, why is it that no woman or girl has come out to accuse him of sexual abuse or predatory behavior?
                                        He was accused by a woman at the time that Rob$on and $afechuck filed their initial lawsuits but she backed out. This is rarely mentioned, probably because most people don't know about it. Kinda destroys the boylover narrative a tad too which I suspect is why the media don't like to report it.

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                                        • Just before $afechuck realised that he'd been abused by MJ, after seeing Wade accusing MJ on television, the Safechuck family were sued for $24 million for defrauding the shareholders of their business. That's quite the incentive to sue a dead billionaire's estate.





                                          https://twitter.com/JuliaBerkowitz1/...18167675596800

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                                          • Originally posted by BushBoy View Post
                                            He was accused by a woman at the time that Rob$on and $afechuck filed their initial lawsuits but she backed out. This is rarely mentioned, probably because most people don't know about it. Kinda destroys the boylover narrative a tad too which I suspect is why the media don't like to report it.
                                            Why did she back out?

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                                            • Originally posted by SpyVsSpy View Post
                                              Why did she back out?
                                              No idea. We never even found out her name.

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                                              • YAS AS THEY SHOULD
                                                Britney Spears • Janet Jackson • Christina Aguilera • Michael Jackson • Selena Gomez • Hilary Duff • Taylor Swift • Justin Timberlake

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                                                • Good piece of satire here in Michael's favour.

                                                  https://shameshameshameshame.com/201...ilk-and-money/

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                                                  • https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxNDb2PVcoM

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                                                    • This is incredible and incredibly moving. I think it is an IQ test these days... those who believe the allegations and are not even willing to sit thru any of these new documentaries about the accusers... and the circumstances... obviously have no intelligence.

                                                      What I take away from this, is that Jordan Chandler was indeed a victim... not by Michael but his own father.

                                                      I think the whole thing with MJ and pedophilia is most well-researched case in history.

                                                      How the media made a complete innocent man into a devil... is something to behold. I hope nobody else has to ever go thru this again.
                                                      My Chart

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                                                      • Originally posted by stevyy View Post
                                                        This is incredible and incredibly moving. I think it is an IQ test these days... those who believe the allegations and are not even willing to sit thru any of these new documentaries about the accusers... and the circumstances... obviously have no intelligence.

                                                        What I take away from this, is that Jordan Chandler was indeed a victim... not by Michael but his own father.

                                                        I think the whole thing with MJ and pedophilia is most well-researched case in history.

                                                        How the media made a complete innocent man into a devil... is something to behold. I hope nobody else has to ever go thru this again.
                                                        Would be great if we could found out who is behind the continuing attempt to destroy his legacy and why.

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                                                        • Originally posted by BushBoy View Post
                                                          Would be great if we could found out who is behind the continuing attempt to destroy his legacy and why.
                                                          I have no idea who is behind all of this... I guess... Evan Chandler started it all and from there on out and MJ*s own mistakes in how he handled the first case... (i mean he had no other choice...) he opened pandora's box.

                                                          Jordan Chandler is the only one who could put a stop to this all... if he would only come out and tell the truth... but I guess he would be forced to give all the money back.
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                                                          • This new documentary "Square One" is a must see for everyone, who is willing to know about the facts regarding how the allegations started. It is laid out very well with a timeline, and it also includes very interesting interviews from witnesses that are not discredited and have no financial incentive to lie unlike the men in "Leaving Neverland".

                                                            It is very sad how the media does not really seem to care, even when the facts are served to them on a platter with "Lies of Leaving Neverland" and "Square One". A story of sexual abuse is apparently much more interesting to them no matter how weak the accusers' cases are. I wish that it would be different, but it's probably right, when some say that these counter-documentaries will mostly serve historical purposes. In 50 years people will probably know better, but for now people who can benefit from the allegations and a guilty-agenda will continue to push them hard.

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                                                            • Originally posted by emilhot View Post
                                                              This new documentary "Square One" is a must see for everyone, who is willing to know about the facts regarding how the allegations started. It is laid out very well with a timeline, and it also includes very interesting interviews from witnesses that are not discredited and have no financial incentive to lie unlike the men in "Leaving Neverland".

                                                              It is very sad how the media does not really seem to care, even when the facts are served to them on a platter with "Lies of Leaving Neverland" and "Square One". A story of sexual abuse is apparently much more interesting to them no matter how weak the accusers' cases are. I wish that it would be different, but it's probably right, when some say that these counter-documentaries will mostly serve historical purposes. In 50 years people will probably know better, but for now people who can benefit from the allegations and a guilty-agenda will continue to push them hard.
                                                              It is so shocking how the reporter exposed testified that news outlets ran entire fake stories and would pay so called "witnesses" to alter their stories and make them more dramatic and incriminating. So... what I don't get is that the media is fully aware that they are spreading fake stories which they have edited, told by paid witnesses... so why couldn't they stop with it after the first run in 1993-1994... why did they have to repeat this in 2003-05 and 2018-2019.
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