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  • Originally posted by delapuerta View Post

    We've talked a lot about the state of her voice without bringing up a pessimistic tone or like "she's over" because she's not. She has nodules, she's aware of that, but for a singer it's a hard topic to talk about and it's up to her.
    I've seen her live several times (12) in the last 10 years. Singing average to great, having mediocre and good days. But it is what it is.
    It's probable that her voice is back (the mid range was really on during the rehearsal).
    Better than throwing her under the bus at every time she doesn't fulfill your expectation, why not embracing and celebrating her being there as the legend she is?

    See this is what I was talking about. Discussing her voice isn’t ‘throwing her under the bus’. I never said anything negative. I certainly didn’t say ‘she’s over’ and I certainly don’t feel that way! Caution is a great album and one of its strengths is that the vocal arrangements are true to her current voice. Even if she had zero medical issues, to even have to try and sing her classics the way she did in the studio is beyond demanding. The expectations are crazy. We know she has nodules but not much beyond that. The trajectory of her voice from 1990 to 1995 fascinates me too - the changes from ‘94 to ‘95 are extreme! I can’t think of another singer who has had so many ‘vocal eras’. I also feel like we’ll never know what actually happened and can’t help but wonder if surgery would be able to restore some of what she’s lost…

    I agree with you about how important her confidence is. I watched her Grammy performance of “If It’s Over” last night. THAT was a night she should have been nervous. She said herself that she was very aware that Aretha Franklin and Streisand were watching. Yet she walked out probably the most confident she’s ever looked. She knew her voice wouldn’t let her down and went for it. It’s epic. I feel frustrated for her that she doesn’t have that confidence now and can’t be sure on any given day if her voice will cooperate.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by MattyOj View Post


      See this is what I was talking about. Discussing her voice isn’t ‘throwing her under the bus’. I never said anything negative. I certainly didn’t say ‘she’s over’ and I certainly don’t feel that way! Caution is a great album and one of its strengths is that the vocal arrangements are true to her current voice. Even if she had zero medical issues, to even have to try and sing her classics the way she did in the studio is beyond demanding. The expectations are crazy. We know she has nodules but not much beyond that. The trajectory of her voice from 1990 to 1995 fascinates me too - the changes from ‘94 to ‘95 are extreme! I can’t think of another singer who has had so many ‘vocal eras’. I also feel like we’ll never know what actually happened and can’t help but wonder if surgery would be able to restore some of what she’s lost…

      I agree with you about how important her confidence is. I watched her Grammy performance of “If It’s Over” last night. THAT was a night she should have been nervous. She said herself that she was very aware that Aretha Franklin and Streisand were watching. Yet she walked out probably the most confident she’s ever looked. She knew her voice wouldn’t let her down and went for it. It’s epic. I feel frustrated for her that she doesn’t have that confidence now and can’t be sure on any given day if her voice will cooperate.
      Dear you have 5 posts. Maybe some of us are tired of this endless debate. She has good and bad days, period. In this case I've seen more problems with the event being broadcast. Since NYE you can tell she suffers with stage fright everytime she goes to sing on TV. But she can deliver great vocals in her regular tours. It ain't that deep and it is what it is. Some of her pandemic performances have been really good, also her improptu IG moments.
      Last edited by delapuerta; Mon September 26, 2022, 09:46.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by delapuerta View Post

        Dear you have 5 posts. Maybe some of us are tired of this endless debate. She has good and bad days, period. In this case I've seen more problems with the event being broadcast. Since NYE you can tell she suffers with stage fright everytime she goes to sing on TV. But she can deliver great vocals in her regular tours. It ain't that deep and it is what it is. Some of her pandemic performances have been really good, also her improptu IG moments.

        My number of posts doesn’t negate what I said - you had to start somewhere too ‘dear’ ☺️ Unfortunately I can’t dredge up my posts from other forums. I did my part in defence of MC on Classic Whitney when WYB came out. Now the things those bitches had to say would really piss you off!

        I agree, it is what it is. Her lockdown version of “There’s Got To Be A Way” was fantastic.

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        • I don't care whoever she's gonna work with in her new album, it's given that she can make magic with her music. I want her to work with a massive marketing team. who can make her music virals and seal deals with radios and social media. Caution has so much potential but it was under marketed
          Mariah Carey- The Queen of Queens And The Goddess of Goddesses

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          • Originally posted by GetBack
            edited by cheapthrills
            Her voice is so good now. Even with the fan comments online, majority are now being amazed about how great her performance was. She really needs to do more concerts coz her current vocal state is incredible, and she did it all so professionally and with no lipping unlike other singers nowdays. People are more open to listen to her again and attend her live performances nowadays, I hope she will do continue to amaze us with her legendary vocals and stage presence like she did 30 years ago.

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            • She did fine. I enjoy the live moments. I enjoy her tone and the improvisations she does. Her music is timeless, and many people, including non-fans, enjoy hearing her music in the setting of a performance. She interacts with the crowd. It's fun!

              I am grateful that she is out performing and don't see it as ruining her legacy. Her past performances and records are there for the world to see. I think most people understand that a woman in her 50s might not be able to sing exactly the same as a woman in her early 20s.

              I don't usually engage in defending our legend, but she deserves support for going out and performing in such a large setting and serving mostly live vocals. It takes guts!!!
              You don’t have to be afraid of what you are!

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              • Hello everyone,

                I'm new here. I've been reading this thread for a long time and felt now was a good time to contribute!

                Up until the pandemic, I was working in the office of a major European publicist who often worked with Mariah alongside many others (George Michael was another RIP)

                I started early 2000's working as an intern and worked my way up. Along the way, I had lots of exposure to MC and her camp and I have always been a fan.

                I wanted to contribute regarding the discussions about her voice and it's current condition. From what I've seen, its part of a bigger picture re: MC. I'll try and make this as concise as possible.

                My first experience with MC was during her summer UK 2001 promo tour for Glitter. I was assisting the senior PR at a taping of a show for a now defunct MTV channel in the UK, MTV Base and MC was doing an hour long special with them and Trevor Nelson for the album. We taped early afternoon and MC requested champagne. I was dispatched to go and find a couple of chilled bottles of Cristal (not easy to find even a single one chilled but I digress) that MC could have to 'loosen' her up during the interview. The glasses were kept just out of shot by their seats and not to be filmed. It did loosen her up and it was a great interview. This became standard procedure when MC was in the UK doing press with us. Never in the morning but as soon as the afternoon came, a bottle of wine, mostly white, or champagne would be on hand and once emptied would be restocked with another in a nearby ice bucket. It was just what it was. MC never appeared drunk and it always seemed to chill her out and led to her having a better time during press. She mentioned her voice often regarding smoke she could detect in a nearby room or the temperature of the air con etc and seemed very concious of it and the affects on her voice. She would often move interviews to her hotel room or a smaller room because it was better for her voice and we always went out of our way to make sure she was comfortable on this front with all she needed. That time, MC didn't do any promotional performances. In the UK back then, most were mimed to track anyway as it was easier to edit and you could get more performances out of an artist without rehearsal or soundcheck requirements. But she mentioned a few times that she was glad she didn't have to sing anytime soon because even her speaking voice was 'tired'.

                MC came back later that year and again in 2002 and 2003 for promotional appearances, none of which were live vocals and it was business as usual re: ensuring whatever beverage she needed was there and that she was happy and comfortable. We attended two of her live dates on the Charmbracelet tour (this was different as we would just see the show and then see her afterwards, we wouldn't be there before)
                I remember she had sounded incredible in Birmingham and got great reviews for London and she was really happy. There was a Halloween party the night before her final UK date in Manchester and she went out and partied with friends and dressed up. Normally she would never usually do this, she would always be on vocal rest- but she wanted to. As a result, she cut some songs from the Manchester set list and I remember the general feeling was that she was a bit annoyed at herself but managed to get it back together as she went onto Europe. But this was the beginning of a relaxing towards what I heard from colleagues were always previously golden rules regarding her and her voice.

                The first time I saw MC drink before a show was Live 8. The mood was really tense in the camp that day as she was worried about her voice on such a large scale event. She skipped the rehearsal to sleep and woke up, went into makeup, left the hotel and got to her trailer. I remember her drinking a little wine through a straw before she went on to loosen her up and it did. She really went out like a performer and let the vocals be whatever they were going to be. But this was the beginning of a pattern that from what I gather exists up until this day. MC is very nervous about live performance events that she can't control. Her US team would frequently only green light performances that could be dubbed or touched up after. Obviously an event like a Good Morning America is a must do promotional wise and MC would agree to it and her schedule would be amended as such that she had a day off before to rest her voice etc.

                I remember a dinner MC had with George Michael and the lady I worked for. I wasn't there but I heard about it afterwards. GM had invited a friend of his who I think worked with him vocally and worked in opera too. A coach of some sort. Naturally there was wine during dinner and I think this friend of George's made a comment to MC about the drink not being good for her voice and MC didn't take it well and there was a bit of tension at the table. This I think encapsulates the issue at hand. MC's voice was always her USP. It is what made her who she is. She knows it better than anyone and often said it had a mind of it's own- like some days it just didn't want to co-operate. That combined with MC wanting to make up time she lost in her younger years by being more social and partying/drinking, it led to a more relaxed approach. Factoring in drinking, which is apparently like pouring acid on your cords for your voice and it makes sense why MC is where she is at today. I think she always knows she can pull it back and go back to what works- she abstains from alcohol for a bit, gets the vocal rest she needs and is reassured that her voice largely bounces back- look at her Beacon performances for example after Rockefeller or how she wanted to prove she still had it on the Charmbracelet tour. That fighter in MC comes back out and decides to make the necessary changes. But it doesn't last.

                She is surrounded by teams of people she curates, people that faciliate what she wants. Liron who works for her today, started by working a fan site called MariahDaily and was then hired by MC. These people won't tell MC that the drink isn't working or advise better ways. They are all on the payroll and whilst a lot of them I've met have been lovely, working for MC is like an alternate reality and she calls the shots. So if she wants a drink to loosen up before a show, she has it. No one questions her. And she has nothing to prove. But it has led to the devaluation of the overall brand of MC with these high profile appearances that aren't in line with her legacy as one of the greatest vocalists of all time. It's a vicious cycle.

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                • These over the top negative comments are really irritating.

                  I think she sounded great on Caution (2018) and the Christmas soundtrack (2020) and even more recently, FILAC.

                  She also sounded amazing during the vocal rehearsal and in the end, she sounded good during the concert - a little too hoarse in parts... but that's it.

                  I'd love for her to adjust the keys more, but other than that her tone is there and i rebuke the notion of people having to cover their ears when she is singing. lol.

                  It's like... these opinions are too extreme.
                  My Chart

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                  • JesusChrist we've got the bible in here

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                    • I will say I was disappointed with her performance. It was blah to me. In terms of her voice idk, i just idk. Lol. Im done making excuses for her haha. She’s had a lot of rest these past couple years. What i personally wonder is what she does on a daily basis to maintain her voice. Like, does this woman do breathing exercises? Does she sing through a straw or any other sovt exercises. I know she loooves a lip trill, shes always doing them. Does she do messa di vocce? Because in some parts she sounds out of breath. Then others fine. Im not an expert so i really don’t know how her nodes affect her singing. But im just really confused as to someone with as many resources as her with access to the best sounds the way she sounds. She said it herself she is not disciplined. Maybe she sounded better earlier on because she was younger and had all of those years living with her mother fresh in her mind. Thus, she had a more sense of discipline when it came to maintaining her voice because her mom was a vocal coach. Idk. Just thinking.

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                      • Y'all the ones who should retire from HER and not the other way around.

                        She sounded better at rehearsal, as usual. But her performance wasn't that bad as some if y'all are making it out to be, smh. Acting as if this was Rockefeller 2014/NYE all over again.
                        Just a DEVIANT, PERTURBED, DERANGED, MACABRE, MANIAC, LUNATIC, IRRATIONAL PSYCHO-TO-BE.

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                        • Has anyone pre ordered the debut smoke vinyl for National Album Day?

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                          • Oh my…

                            She looked amazing and performed a medley of massive hits—a fraction of the amount of hits she has by the way. This is what the general public wants from her. This place (and some small Twitter circles) are the ONLY place you’ll see her be picked about for not having a resonant enough C5 in her live performances. With every time she performs y’all choose to pick her apart, want her to retire, and act like her time is up. YALL are who need to give it up cause she’ll continue to stay booked whether you like to see it or not.
                            funny how one can learn
                            to grow numb to the madness
                            and block it away

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                            • Originally posted by ArthurS
                              edited by cheapthrills
                              I have to agree with the 2nd part here. I also think that these gowns with their heavy corsets are poison for her breathing control.

                              She loves these dresses tho... but a cute top (even glittery and glamourous) and some cute pants... well that's also a look and one that would allow her to breathe better.

                              I don't want to nitpick or whatever and I enjoyed her performance very much, however, dressing more comfortably would be the 1st thing that I would suggest to her.

                              I mean during the rehearsal she had almost no vocal problems at all... and that#s something that not only I have noticed. It's clear as day.
                              My Chart

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by LambChild View Post
                                Oh my…

                                She looked amazing and performed a medley of massive hits—a fraction of the amount of hits she has by the way. This is what the general public wants from her. This place (and some small Twitter circles) are the ONLY place you’ll see her be picked about for not having a resonant enough C5 in her live performances. With every time she performs y’all choose to pick her apart, want her to retire, and act like her time is up. YALL are who need to give it up cause she’ll continue to stay booked whether you like to see it or not.
                                Only 1 person suggested retirement and only 1 more person was harsh. These opinions get a lot of traction bc they are overly negative and negativity sells. I think that 90% of everyone in this thread has only positive things to take away from her performance.

                                That being said, the only thing that I would suggest would be ... to not use any corsets anymore or these extra fitted gowns. She looked so cute during the rehearsal... and we saw her drop that dress as soon as she finished her concert... which indicates that even she herself did not really feel comfortable in it. I know that this is stage-attire... but there is so much more fashion out there which would still be glamorous, but not hinder her breathing while performing. I think that's a fair point to make.
                                My Chart

                                Comment


                                • --reopened---

                                  Infractions have been issued to GetBack, xmelo5, and ArthurS for baiting.

                                  a big thank you to those of you who chose to flag and not engage.

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by stevyy View Post

                                    Only 1 person suggested retirement and only 1 more person was harsh. These opinions get a lot of traction bc they are overly negative and negativity sells. I think that 90% of everyone in this thread has only positive things to take away from her performance.

                                    That being said, the only thing that I would suggest would be ... to not use any corsets anymore or these extra fitted gowns. She looked so cute during the rehearsal... and we saw her drop that dress as soon as she finished her concert... which indicates that even she herself did not really feel comfortable in it. I know that this is stage-attire... but there is so much more fashion out there which would still be glamorous, but not hinder her breathing while performing. I think that's a fair point to make.
                                    I agree with you in that point. She can wear what she likes as long as it helps her to sing.

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by stevyy View Post

                                      Only 1 person suggested retirement and only 1 more person was harsh. These opinions get a lot of traction bc they are overly negative and negativity sells. I think that 90% of everyone in this thread has only positive things to take away from her performance.

                                      That being said, the only thing that I would suggest would be ... to not use any corsets anymore or these extra fitted gowns. She looked so cute during the rehearsal... and we saw her drop that dress as soon as she finished her concert... which indicates that even she herself did not really feel comfortable in it. I know that this is stage-attire... but there is so much more fashion out there which would still be glamorous, but not hinder her breathing while performing. I think that's a fair point to make.

                                      Look, I think many here share the same sentiment about her wearing something more comfortable on stage but if she’s performing in a public setting for non fans it’s simply not going to happen. Her signature stage look now is the glamorous gown. It’s just what comes to mind for people who aren’t fans when they envision her on stage. For Michael it’s probably the classic Billie Jean outfit, Madonna it’s the cone bra, Beyoncé it’s a leotard… and Mariah a sparkly gown.

                                      funny how one can learn
                                      to grow numb to the madness
                                      and block it away

                                      Comment


                                      • I thought the thread was locked forever.

                                        Anyway, do we have more surprises for B25, apart from the various vinyl editions and such?
                                        She was kind of fragile and she had a lot to grapple with but basically she kept it all inside ...

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                                        • Originally posted by LambChild View Post


                                          Her signature stage look now is the glamorous gown. It’s just what comes to mind for people who aren’t fans when they envision her on stage. For Michael it’s probably the classic Billie Jean outfit, Madonna it’s the cone bra, Beyoncé it’s a leotard… and Mariah a sparkly gown.
                                          I think you're right when you put it this way. She seemed to enjoy that old school glamorous style.
                                          She was kind of fragile and she had a lot to grapple with but basically she kept it all inside ...

                                          Comment


                                          • Originally posted by divingmuffin View Post

                                            Yes, she definitely moved more. We stan a queen who can walk unassisted (sometimes).
                                            Yeah. She was moving quite excessively than the past years tbh lol. She was so stiff and would only stay at one place before. I'm just glad to see her enjoying herself on stage again, but what I'm hoping to see is her stage command like she used to have in the 90's.

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                                            • TEOM in Atmos

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                                              • Originally posted by MattyOj View Post


                                                See this is what I was talking about. Discussing her voice isn’t ‘throwing her under the bus’. I never said anything negative. I certainly didn’t say ‘she’s over’ and I certainly don’t feel that way! Caution is a great album and one of its strengths is that the vocal arrangements are true to her current voice. Even if she had zero medical issues, to even have to try and sing her classics the way she did in the studio is beyond demanding. The expectations are crazy. We know she has nodules but not much beyond that. The trajectory of her voice from 1990 to 1995 fascinates me too - the changes from ‘94 to ‘95 are extreme! I can’t think of another singer who has had so many ‘vocal eras’. I also feel like we’ll never know what actually happened and can’t help but wonder if surgery would be able to restore some of what she’s lost…
                                                The change from 94-95 isn’t that drastic actually, she just realized that she could belt higher if she changed her technique, and her tone is thinner when she makes her voice lighter

                                                She really can still sing like 93, just listen to Hero at Beacon from 2014

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                                                • What I need is the honey/heartbreaker mash up

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                                                  • Originally posted by MrDash View Post

                                                    I think you're right when you put it this way. She seemed to enjoy that old school glamorous style.
                                                    She is also apparently endorsing the chopard butterfly necklace so i think it is just fitting to wear a gown.
                                                    A place in time still belongs to us...

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