Mariah Carey

[lambforever]

I read the billboard article about IAW and it said it sold 1000 units, not 25,000

This is more like it.

[Statsandchart]

To anyone unfamiliar with the legend that is Chaka Khan, this is not her being 'bitter' or 'jealous', her opinions have ALWAYS been unfiltered. Mary J. Blige worships Chaka and covered her song "Sweet Thing" on her first album. She met Chaka soon after and Chaka told her right to her face that she was flat on the recording! She doesn't f*ck around! Chaka and Mary are friends to this day.

While the lambs have come to terms with and now embrace Mariah's cut and paste live performances, a singers singer like Chaka Khan has no respect for that. She's talked about Mariah's hoarseness live before. Chaka, along with Dionne, Gladys and Patti sang at the Legends Ball while Mariah and Janet dodged the mic. Chaka has toured constantly in her 50 year career and you will be hard pressed to find clips of her lip syncing. You can find many great and not so great performances but she's always live. If we're aware of Mariah's inconsistencies live, there's no way other singers aren't aware of it too. If any of us were a revered singer like Chaka, it would be a bit of a slap in the face to be ranked lower than someone who is known to rely on lip syncing...


Chaka and Dionne may not rate Mariah, but the likes of Patti, Olivia Newton John and Aretha feel/felt differently. Chaka's opinion is hers. Mariah's recorded legacy speaks for itself.

To anyone unfamiliar with the legend that is Chaka Khan, this is not her being 'bitter' or 'jealous', her opinions have ALWAYS been unfiltered. Mary J. Blige worships Chaka and covered her song "Sweet Thing" on her first album. She met Chaka soon after and Chaka told her right to her face that she was flat on the recording! She doesn't f*ck around! Chaka and Mary are friends to this day.

I think her use of the term 'payola' is very interesting and deliberate and is an unfortunate part of Mariah's legacy from the Mottola years. Mariah is well respected now but it's easy to forget that in the 90s her marriage to Mottola was seen by many as a career move. She was also dogged by rumours of payola heavily contributing to her hits back then. It was a common practice that all record labels took part in to secure radio play. If labels invested in their artists' songs being played on the radio, they would get the money back tenfold in physical sales (how things have changed!). There was also much talk of payola during the Butterfly era because it was clear that Sony had cut Mariah's payola budget after her separation from Mottola. Obviously people in the industry are more privy to these goings on than we are. The perception of Mariah from that time is the reason she also didn't win Grammy Awards and the reason she didn't get a standing ovation at the Essence Awards after her excellent performance for Patti, while Whitney got one for just walking on the stage. Mariah was also considered standoffish as per the infamous story that BeBe Winans would tell anyone who would listen about Mariah ignoring Whitney at the '92 Grammy's. Mariah obviously rewrote that narrative once she was 'free', but it would be hard to completely erase those perceptions.

While the lambs have come to terms with and now embrace Mariah's cut and paste live performances, a singers singer like Chaka Khan has no respect for that. She's talked about Mariah's hoarseness live before. Chaka, along with Dionne, Gladys and Patti sang at the Legends Ball while Mariah and Janet dodged the mic. Chaka has toured constantly in her 50 year career and you will be hard pressed to find clips of her lip syncing. You can find many great and not so great performances but she's always live. If we're aware of Mariah's inconsistencies live, there's no way other singers aren't aware of it too. If any of us were a revered singer like Chaka, it would be a bit of a slap in the face to be ranked lower than someone who is known to rely on lip syncing...


Chaka and Dionne may not rate Mariah, but the likes of Patti, Olivia Newton John and Aretha feel/felt differently. Chaka's opinion is hers. Mariah's recorded legacy speaks for itself.

Mariah Carey's singing talent is top notch and easily among the bests ever, it has absolutely nothing to envy to Chaka's, be careful on what you say because there are also singing connoisseurs in this forum. Most great singers have had their ups and downs, and the higher someone has been, the worse their downfall will be. It's known. Mariah has already been complimented for her work and her singing by countless professional music legends, even among opera legends such as Leontyne Price and Montserrat Caballe, as well as opera singers and vocal teachers David Lee Brewer, Catherine Bott, but also by several big names in mainstream music such as Aretha Franklin, Patti Labelle, Stevie Wonder, etc to name a few. Chaka Khan's opinion will therefore not weigh much in the balance, but even less the harshness with which she expressed it. So there's nothing to justify nor defend on Chaka's rude and disrespectful attitude towards Mariah, even when you're her biggest fan.

As for the lipsynching , there's several kind of voices and they don't have the same level of endurance. it doesn't remove the talent of singing displayed in her non-lipsynched performances, cause it's all about non-lipped performances. It's a way to protect the voice for vocalists having vocally demanding catalog.

Then it's not about live or lipsynch but about how good you sound regardless of conditions and contexts.
Many singers have never lipped and sing live everytime, however remain basic in their craft and standard, they can never stand out.
Mariah has done justice and even surpassed her studio recording vocals countless times live, that's what matters.

The voice is a muscle, it declines with time according to its type, to stress, to the rate it is used, and also life discipline. It is not a talent but a natural instrument.
The musicality and creativity with which you use it when singing determine your talent, and the healthy way you use to maximize its potentiality determine your technique level. Mariahs technique is star rated by voice experts and teachers, then she has nothing to prove vocally at this point.

Mariah was born with her nodules. When she was singing under her husband's rigid control (sleep hours, no alcohol, long periods of being forced to not speak) her nodules remained manageable. But then she started living as she wanted, and her nodules started having more of an effect at the long run. Basically. It has NOTHING to do with her technique.
That's about life discipline, not vocal technique used.
Well , she manage to keep sigificant part of its tonal quality and most of her range. This is why with good rest and discipline, she still could do wonders vocally ( as she did we the We Belong Together Valentine mix in 2019).
Her musicianship and musicality remain intact though, as it can't decline with time
Great singing is not just about the physical aspect of using your instrument, or how high or loud you scream high notes, neither how long you could sustain a note .
It's about art, musicality, musicianship, timing, ,expressiveness, melody, accuracy, technique, style, beauty, originality.

It's not a stamina or endurance contest, but rather an artistical and aesthetical journey.
It's about beauty, passion, feelings, expressiveness and aesthetic .
If you were objective in your approach, you would rather have expressed consternation and regret for this, and not come to her defense while attacking the talent and even the success of Mariah's career. We owe everyone respect, but we're not fooled.
As for Mariah's successful career, there's been rumors of payola and chart manipulations all over the place throughout its run, from.haters and jealous fandoms, but her ongoing popularity and relevance dismiss them all. Cause if her success and popularity were as fake as people claim, she could not stand among the most enduring legacy stars up to now, 32 years after her debut.

[delapuerta]

Mariah Carey's singing talent is top notch and easily among the bests ever, it has absolutely nothing to envy to Chaka's, be careful what you say because there are also singing connoisseurs in this forum. Most great singers have had their ups and downs, and the higher someone has been, the worse their downfall will be. It's known. Mariah has already been complimented for her work and her singing by countless professional music legends, even among opera legends such as Leontyne Price and Montserrat Caballe, but also by several big names in mainstream music such as Aretha Franklin, Patti Labelle, Stevie Wonder, etc to name a few. Chaka Khan's opinion will therefore not weigh in the balance, but even less the harshness with which she expressed it. So there's nothing to justify nor defend on Chaka's rude and disrespectful attitude towards Mariah, even when you're her biggest fan.

As for the lipsynching , there's several kind of voices and they don't have the same level of endurance. it doesn't remove the talent she display in her non-lipsynched performances, cause it's all about non-lipped performances.

Then it's not about live or lipsynch but about how good you sound regardless of conditions and contexts.
Many singers have never lipped and sing live everytime, however remain basic in their craft and standard.
Mariah has done justice and even surpassed her studio recording vocals countless times live, that's what matters.

The voice is a muscle, it declines with time according to its type, to the rate it is used, and also life discipline. It is not a talent but a natural instrument.
The musicality and creativity with which you use it when singing determine your talent, and the healthy way you use to maximize its potentiality determine your technique level. Mariahs technique is star rated by voice experts and teachers, then she has nothing to prove vocally at this point.

Mariah was born with her nodules. When she was singing under her husband's rigid control (sleep hours, no alcohol, long periods of being forced to not speak) her nodules remained manageable. But then she started living as she wanted, and her nodules started having more of an effect at the long run. Basically. It has NOTHING to do with her technique.
That's about life discipline, not vocal technique used.
Well , she manage to keep sigificant part of its tonal quality and all of her range. This is why with good rest and discipline, she still could do wonders vocally ( as she did we the We Belong Together Valentine mix in 2019).
Her musicianship and musicality remain intact though, as it can't decline with time
Great singing is not just about the physical aspect of using your instrument, or how high or loud you scream high notes, neither how long you could sustain a note .
It's about art, musicality, musicianship, timing, ,melody, accuracy, technique, style, beauty, originality.

It's not a stamina or endurance contest, but rather an artistical and aesthetical journey.
It's about beauty, passion, feelings and esthetic .
If you were objective in your approach, you would rather have expressed desolation and regret for this, and not come to her defense while attacking the talent and even the success of Mariah's career. We owe everyone respect, but we're not fooled.
As for Mariah's successful career, there's been rumors of payola and chart manipulations all over the place throughout its run, from.haters and jealous fandoms, but her ongoing popularity and relevance dismiss them all. Cause is her success and popularity were as fake as people claim, she could not stand as one of most enduring stars up to now, 32 years after her debut.

[CasualFlow]

This I was guessing. Sales like that would have surely gotten IAW unto the Hot 100. Also saw a post saying IAW got 3.6 million streams in the U.S

Here is the BB article. The 25,000 units is sps for its last week of sales and streams. 50,000 units for it's last two weeks.

It sold better than I expected and had fewer official streams than I estimated.

[MimiCici]

To MattyOj,

I can't believe a lamb or not can say this.
to start this, let me all remind you that Mariah endured the most disrespect in the insdustry and from GP, probably one of the most criticized and misunderstood artist beside Madona. she been through so much low that it cause her, her confidence.

Pre digital Eras most music artist are pretty much an "Industry Plant" they are groomed to be a huge star. Remember this is still a business and each competition you need to put out something to complete with the competition. you also have to take note that during the pre internet era the only way to promote artist or a song is to basically have a good relationship with the radio and that comes with "Payola" and to tell you, most artist from that era paid their payola too.

in modern music it is called Radio deal/Remixes/Discounts. Sounds better but basically still payola. i don't understand why people would accuse only Mariah for these act when it is literally a common practice.

you also mentioned that Butterfly got less payola budget. Then 10,000,000 CD sold is no joke for a 7th CD release (INCL. MTV unplugged) plus few hits from that album.

That Essence Award thing, Whitney is already past her prime then and considered to be a legend already while mariah is stil at her peak and usually peaking artist doesn't get that much flowers. Also SWV, Michael Bolton didn't get the standing ovation from their line up incl Mariah.


Regarding the live perfomance, this sadden me the most. Every artist has diff biological changes in their vocals, it happens that mariah is both blessed and cursed to have in born nodule that made her hit high notes at the same time restrict her from hitting them during bad days and later on. this kind of comment made MARIAH LOSE HER CONFIDENCE. We always have to remind everyone that Mariah has nodules and at her age nodules are getting bad.

Chaka can indeed have an opinion but it is unnecessary to be rude.


Mariah is more than a legend, she passed her peers in every level. she has nothing to prove.
even after 90's she didn't need to have a come back to prove anything because she is already a legend by then, have 5 more #1 hits, have 2 songs that spend 12 weeks (counting ) and 14 weeks @ #1, Song of the Decade and another for this decade (Possibly) did way beyond her peers. her legacy is comprable to the beatles & Michael Jackson.


To Mimi my love we are here to be your forever warrior. you saved my life many times and is still is.

[MimiCici]

anybody that defends rudeness are rude themseves

[CasualFlow]

A classic. A favorite. A trendsetter.
The 11 minute club version is a beast. Don't think it's ever been equalled.

[Yerac]

It's a wrap appears on hot tiktok uk chart, number #24 what about in other countries?

[TheRealest]

Anytime You Need A Friend is a career highlight and so underrated (among the GP). It needs a resurge too!

[24fanatic]

Seems like no one can confirm what happened on Hot 97 last night, but we are all assuming that “It’s A Wrap” being played on that radio station is probably what happened. Lol

[stevyy]

Anytime You Need A Friend is a career highlight and so underrated (among the GP). It needs a resurge too!

I will never understand how it never set the charts on fire in 1994 when it was release sandwiched between 2 massive international evergreen mega monster smash hits, Without You (#1 in the known world) and Endless Love.

It really stood the test of time and is one of the greatest songs ever. It's a melodic masterpiece and vocally unsingable by anyone else.

All the remixes are pure fire.

[stevyy]

anybody that defends rudeness are rude themseves

What Chaka could have said is that she respects Mariah's talent or thinks that she is / was a great singer, but that there are other singers which she would have placed higher.

This whole payola thing is so mean bc it indicates that there has never been any talent to begin with. Her remarks on Adele and MJB were even worse bc in their cases Chaka didn't just insinuate their lack of talent, she almost directly said that out loud.

Also, we all know that RS Magazine is not even at all a fan of Mariah's. That magazine has been incredible rude towards her by rating her entire music discography so poorly, except Caution.

So, Mariah probably didn't even expect to be on that list at all herself.

People can utter their opinions... Mariah does it too. Take that Demi / J.Lo thing... Mariah said that whatever Demi said was rude and that it is not the way how you (if your are a professional recording artist yourself who shares the same circles as their victim of shame) address those things.

I do not know Chaka's personality. But from what I heard her actually say about other singers was not playful or witty at all. It was mean-spirited and bitter.

Maybe Mariah should objectively ranked in the top 50 or sth... but she has earned a place in that list (Céline btw too, that was just idk... completely idiotic on RS part).

[WEBofDESIRE]

@MimiCici I hear you completely.

MattyOj wants to take the best of Chaka's performances and put them up against the worst of Mariah's which is the definition of a bad faith argument. We could certainly take some of Chaka's bad performances (and they are plentiful in recent years - the ones where the background singers do 90% of the singing and Chaka can barely even remember the words on the few lines that she lazily attempts) and compare those.

But, on a list like this (that features deceased artists) this is clearly looking at the very best of each artist. Mariah has many, many damn good live performances. I'll take peak Mariah over peak Chaka any day of the week (and clearly the majority of the world's population did the same), but that's just a personal opinion and will vary from person to person, understandably.

Hell, I'll take current Mariah over peak Chaka, just because I like the tone of Mariah's voice a lot better as well as the general artistic styling of the music. Frequent posters in thread are obviously going to be bias that way. Like I've said though, Chaka has a couple songs I like and is a talented woman, I won't take that away from her. Personally, I find Chaka's voice grating when she lets loose and only like the more reserved songs from her (though those were the songs that struck the right notes with the general public for the most part anyway).

I'm glad that Mariah chooses not to put negative energy out into the world like this, hopefully she ignores the entire thing.

[stevyy]

Hell, I'll take current Mariah over peak Chaka, just because I like the artistic styling of the music better. Frequent posters in thread are obviously going to be bias that way. Like I've said though, Chaka has a couple songs I like and is a talented woman, I won't take that away from her. I think Mariah is a bigger person than this on a spiritual level and won't bother to address any of this at all, Chaka's free to think whatever she wants.

The way Mariah responds to those who critique her is so timeless and old Hollywood. She was so gracious towards Darlene Love and she will hold herself up in a dignified way in this case as well.

That's all that you can do.

[delapuerta]

All singers have bad performances, bad days and bad vocal moments. It's so sad that there are some artists that cannot understand that and it shows a lack of sympathy.

[mm2912]

So much harder for IAW to debut

[stevyy]

All singers have bad performances, bad days and bad vocal moments. It's so sad that there are some artists that cannot understand that and it shows a lack of sympathy.

I remember this clip of Sia not being able to sing.. she tried and tried, but her voice was shot that day and it didn't get any better... Instead of making her the bottom of all jokes on the internet, the audience helped her out and sang with and for her...

In Mariah's case... it became a global storyline and narrative with the focus on adding humiliation on top of what had already transpired.

Mariah is judged so harshly, often too harshly.

Whitney finished an entire tour with a voice that could not sustain any notes after the first song. I know she got some bad press for it, at least in my country, but in the end people weren't vicious and mean-spirited.

Mariah knows that the second that she f"cks up, her concert clips will go viral and become a storyline around the globe. During her first performance back from NYE2017 at Kimmel or Fallon (whatever the late night show was) she was visibly shaking...

[WEBofDESIRE]

I remember this clip of Sia not being able to sing.. she tried and tried, but her voice was shot that day and it didn't get any better... Instead of making her the bottom of all jokes on the internet, the audience helped her out and sang with and for her...

In Mariah's case... it became a global storyline and narrative with the focus on adding humiliation on top of what had already transpired.

Mariah is judged so harshly, often too harshly.

Whitney finished an entire tour with a voice that could not sustain any notes after the first song. I know she got some bad press for it, at least in my country, but in the end people weren't vicious and mean-spirited.

Mariah knows that the second that she f"cks up, her concert clips will go viral and become a storyline around the globe. During her first performance back from NYE2017 at Kimmel or Fallon (whatever the late night show was) she was visibly shaking...

Agreed. The media is truly vicious with her at times. The effect that all of it has had on her confidence on stage is undeniable. Though some people do notice that and respect it, I remember when she did the NY performance the next year there were many comments even from non-fans that were giving her props for daring to go straight back to that stage again after the fiasco.

[Mckenry]

Surely this is a lie

Haha. I nearly passed out yesterday when I saw an MC fan account tweeting IAW finally debuting on the H100 at 98. Lol. They're all lying.

But yeah, Billboard said 1000 copies were sold, that is 60% down than the previous week.

[LambChild]

I think they’re basing 25,000 in units off of the digital sales + streams.

[Mckenry]

Supernatural will go down in history as being the last great vocal performance by Mariah on record.

MIAM was really the last time we heard her doing vocal acrobatics in an album. Caution was great but what it lacked are the power ballads.

I do think too that Supernatural along with YM, MILG and Meteorite (ugh, the outro belting), YDKWTD and Faded were all done in the same period. Her voice was strong and clear.

Wish we can hear Mariah's big vocals again in her future albums. She should go back to singing hard songs. At this point, we already knew that she's more of a recording artist than a live performer so what the fans implied before that she should just do "toned down, realistic, easy-to-sing-live" songs must go. And the chipmunky filters. Ew. She should go back and sing at the top her lungs in the studio. Low or high, she'll still rely on vocal loops in her concerts anyways. Lol.

[claywire]

Ms Chaka probably heard the AI Mariah on youtube singing I’m Every Woman and that pissed her off since then lol.

Kidding aside, I feel bad for our Queen. At this point, no one should question her status anymore. She came at the time when real talents were at the peak of their careers and she still slayed. Whatever happened in the past she was able to rise from it and proved the critics that she can still be victorious without having a ceo husband. I hate that jealousy can still be a thing even when you’re old. I felt like at her age, being an accomplished one too, would be at peace and should not make snarky comments especially to your colleague. What happens to women should support other women?

Anyway, at the end of the day, facts don’t lie that Mariah has achieved more than her and glad our Queen remained classy by paying no attention to her.

[lambforever]

Here is the BB article. The 25,000 units is sps for its last week of sales and streams. 50,000 units for it's last two weeks.

It sold better than I expected and had fewer official streams than I estimated.

We gotta look out for that sps because we can possibly get it to gold. My expectations were a little over 4 million streams

[lambforever]

Haha. I nearly passed out yesterday when I saw an MC fan account tweeting IAW finally debuting on the H100 at 98. Lol. They're all lying.

But yeah, Billboard said 1000 copies were sold, that is 60% down than the previous week.

Saw that post on Twitter. It's really delusional to make stuff up like that.

[delapuerta]

To me Giving me life has brilliant vocals. Maybe not fireworks in terms of belts, but subtle, deep, sexy, elegant vocals and the outro is fire. I love this kind of songs