Mariah Carey

[mm2912]

Regarding the lipping I dont even care that Mariah lips, I understand why. I only wish that she would update some of her tracks so they sound current. The lowered Without you climax from 1993 or the Oh holy night lines from 1994 are just too obvious. If she just updated them the transitions would be far more seamless and just more believable. But maybe they are not as noticeable when you are actually at a concert.

When I was at her concert it was very obvious she was lipping sync without you. Specially the final chorus but it sounded kinda weird like the pitch was changed to lower like the background vocals from everything fades away

[iKnowGoodMusic]

While I would love to know all the juicy details about Mariah's changing voice, I think she will never talk about it and that is fine. It would ruin the mystique. I mean, what do we want her to say? "Yeah, I got older and I damaged it by [x] and now I can't hit those notes anymore or it isn't as fluid anymore" or "yeah, my voice will sometimes fail and so I will sing the run in a staccato fashion or sing a long lower belted note as it is easier than vibrato/runs" or "yeah, my voice is drier and raspier now, and can sometimes crack unexpectedly."... I mean, talk about a mood killer

Honestly, this. Like what do you want her to say? Her career is built on her voice. We all know what’s up. She knows. We know she knows. I just don’t see the point.

[bm08]

iTunes USA

42. We Belong Together
58. One Sweet Day
754. Fantasy
1341. Always Be My Baby


Usually on Sundays MC songs tend to lose traction so it will be interesting to watch these today.

[wolfeagle]

I do agree that Mariah could switch up the arrangements a bit to help her keep more of it live. Maybe not so much on the ballads but the dancier tracks. She already does this at times such as YDWTD/Emotions mash-up. But in the same way that Whitney would have these pounding arrangements of I Wanna Dance With Somebody and she just sang whatever she was feeling in that moment, Mariah could definitely do that more, especially on songs like Heartbreaker. No, better yet, a reworked dance version of Loverboy with live, gospel-style ad-libs by Mariah. Now we’re talking.

[bm08]

I've come to understand why MC chooses to take the safe route to lip. I mean, just look at how every detail and note is dissected by armchair critics not only here but on Youtube (we've all seen those videos of people taking apart every note).

But, let's also credit the good sis too. She has been singing random bits of rare songs live between the set when she's in that mood a lot more. I appreciate those gems.

Her Christmas tour when she was giving us everything from One Child to Miss You Most >>>>

[tee]

IMO a singer should be able to song their whole song live. I know that is not the popular opinion here or will be dissected with 100 excuses but could you imagine any other artist (visual artist, actor, etc) using 20 year old work and posing it as a current accomplishment? If you cant sing your former songs live anymore, then sing new ones! If you cant sing any song live anymore then maybe it is time to stop singing? If Mariah is so worried about armchair critics then maybe they should just have her former nostalgic content on YouTube, I mean there is enough material out there to last a lifetime.

[Imopink1]

If Mariah worked with Max Martin it would be the best song of all time. He has produced 23 number ones as a producer and so many hits, and Mariah is the greatest female songwriter.

[naughtynae]

The last few pages were exhausting

[bm08]

Cardi has this Mariah meme saved

IMO a singer should be able to song their whole song live. I know that is not the popular opinion here or will be dissected with 100 excuses but could you imagine any other artist (visual artist, actor, etc) using 20 year old work and posing it as a current accomplishment? If you cant sing your former songs live anymore, then sing new ones! If you cant sing any song live anymore then maybe it is time to stop singing? If Mariah is so worried about armchair critics then maybe they should just have her former nostalgic content on YouTube, I mean there is enough material out there to last a lifetime.

The other option is to maybe stop watching or following her.

[tee]

Well I think that is exactly what has been happening since E=MC2. And probably why the Rarities only debuted with 15,000 copies (I bought one physical and one digital copy). She cannot afford anymore lambs to stop following her.

[bm08]

^And that's entirely fine. She already did all the huge commercial albums.

--

We Belong Together top 40 on iTunes now. It's #36.

[stevyy]

Well I think that is exactly what has been happening since E=MC2. And probably why the Rarities only debuted with 15,000 copies (I bought one physical and one digital copy). She cannot afford anymore lambs to stop following her.

I think she lost a lot of casual listeners bc she is serving the same ole, same ole singles concept.... Bye Bye was a super bad singles choice... and then she took months to recover from that only to re-emerge with I stay in love... I mean no!

Memoirs had Obsessed, which happens to be her 2nd most streamed catalogue song today, and followed that with an 80s cover song (which I love btw, her cover that is), but it didn't help her either bc it was not what was trendy back in the day and roll out of the single was completely botched up in its target market, Europe.

The she had MCIIY an album that was 0 promoted outside the USA... (it did fairly well in the USA... it is now at over 600,000 traditional copies scanned and catching up to Glitter).

Then Elusive was another messy era... coming on the heels of an accident and a divorce. Mariah was so massively mismanaged that nothing could have saved the era.

And by the time Caution came out (half a decade later), her power within the music industry had waned profusely and her image underwent several career-threatening incidences. Caution was well received by those who know that it exists.

MC 2019 Anniversary Deluxe was a smash.

The Rarities was under-promoted.... and was led by what is probably the worst lead single of her career.

And that's where we are today.

Her next album: MC16, she needs to make a double disc... one side being R&B jams that she loves and side b could be dance / uptempos / remixes and or even SUD attached as a bonus.

[stevyy]

^And that's entirely fine. She already did all the huge commercial albums.

--

We Belong Together top 40 on iTunes now. It's #36.

I'm fine as long as she manages to sell 100k pure in the USA which seems to be the benchmark of success these days. We all know that streaming is not here for her, unless she has a huge feature hit on her hands which she can put on the album.

Seeing WBT so high up the ranking is absolutely amazing. BB or her label or whoever... should give us an update of its total didigal sales... wikipedia is still running with the 1,679,000 total or sth... The song is probably at arouns 2,1 - 2,5 million digital tracks sold.

Her top 5 digital tracks (estimated):
01 - 3,700,000 - AIWFCIY
02 - 2,600,000 - Obsessed
03 - 2,400,000 - WBT
04 - 2,200,000 - Touch my Body
05 - 1,500,000 - Always be my Baby
06 - 1,300,000 - #Beautiful
07 - 1,200,000 - Fantasy
08 - 1,100,000 - Shake It Off
09 - 1,000,000 - Hero
10 - 700,000 - One Sweet Day / Bye Bye

Physical:
01 - 2,330,000 - One Sweet Day
02 - 1,610,000 - Fantasy
03 - 1,500,000 - My All
04 - 1,300,000 - Honey
05 - 1,250,000 - Always be my Baby
06 - 1,150,000 - Hero
07 - 930,000 - Dreamlover
08 - 860,000 - I still believe
09 - 855,000 - Heartbreaker
10 - 690,000 - Thank God I Found You

And streaming:
01 - 920m - AIWFCIY
02 - 316m - WBT
03 - 224m - ABMB
04 - 165m - IKWYW
05 - 161m - Hero
06 - 155m - Obsessed
07 - 143m - Fantasy
08 - 134m - WY
09 - 128m - C(BPCH)
10 - 110m - OSD

Overall:

#1 digital + #1 streaming = AIWFCIY
#2 digital + #6 streaming = Obsessed
#3 digital + #2 streaming = WBT
#4 digital + #11 streaming - TMB
#5 digital + #5 physical + #3 streamins - ABMB
#6 digital + #12 streaming = #Beautiful
#7 digital + #2 physical + #7 streaming - Fantasy
#8 digital + #18 streaming = Shake It Off
#9 digital + #6 physical + #5 streaming = Hero
#10 digital + #1 physical + #10 streaming - OSD

[Shaka]

Her voice is indeed a mystery. It's really a shame she didnt't open up about it in the book. It was the single most interesting topic imo for her to discuss. It would have at the very least added some context to the ridiculous back and forth between both sides of the "vocal ability" line (she can still sing vs. she sounds horrible camps). Best case she could have given truly unique insight into the voice of what I very much consider to be one of the is not the best vocalists of all time.

Didn't she hint at a second book? I can only hope I guess.

She talked more about her voice in the Questlove interview and in the Twitter Spaces thing with the lambs AKA Lambily Lounge.

And yeah, she's been teasing a sequel/2nd part, but I don't think it's coming soon. Maybe in a few years! I'll be waiting!

While I would love to know all the juicy details about Mariah's changing voice, I think she will never talk about it and that is fine. It would ruin the mystique. I mean, what do we want her to say? "Yeah, I got older and I damaged it by [x] and now I can't hit those notes anymore or it isn't as fluid anymore" or "yeah, my voice will sometimes fail and so I will sing the run in a staccato fashion or sing a long lower belted note as it is easier than vibrato/runs" or "yeah, my voice is drier and raspier now, and can sometimes crack unexpectedly."... I mean, talk about a mood killer

But she already talked about how fragile her voice is, her nodules, how her voice sometimes is "not there" and how lack of rest/sleeps it's a key factor.

Here around 4:30 onwards:

I love that Oprah Interview from '02. She was so real.

---

There's more vids, I can only post 5

[tee]

The thorough-line through all that has been bad performances, lipped or otherwise. We can blame the bad single choices forever but if she slay the crowd with her voice it wouldnt matter, someone out there would fall in love with the songs. Her live performances have been cursed since that fateful TMB performance on good morning America where the playback started singing over her part. And it is a business unfortunately, her commercial peak is behind her but if she continues to do 15,000-20,000 an album she will no longer have a contract behind her. She should be working to gain new fans not loose the ones she already has.

[bm08]

Okay, lets move on as I think we've exhausted this line of discussion.

[stevyy]

The thorough-line through all that has been bad performances, lipped or otherwise. We can blame the bad single choices forever but if she slay the crowd with her voice it wouldnt matter, someone out there would fall in love with the songs. Her live performances have been cursed since that fateful TMB performance on good morning America where the playback started singing over her part. And it is a business unfortunately, her commercial peak is behind her but if she continues to do 15,000-20,000 an album she will no longer have a contract behind her. She should be working to gain new fans not loose the ones she already has.

She is not doing just 15k-20k per album... That's what she usually does on streaming alone in week 1.

Madonna showed us... that you can have atrocious performances... but with the right sound and collabo... your songs will chart here n there and you album benefits in the long run from the streaming points of the guest act.

Mariah also had a lot of great performances... yes, some were bad and they get blown up unproportionally... Gaining fans is tricky for a 51 year old female who still does music for all crowds... adults and teens.

To have continued success again, she has to decide for one demographic... teens (singles) or adults (albums).

I'd expect her next effort - with limited promo and the same old singles strategy to sell 28,000 pure 1st week + 17k streaming = 45,000 consumption copies (USA).

And with 0 promo in Europe... I can see her album missing the charts in at least 5 EU countries which usually and traditionally supported her, like Germany, Austria and some nordic countries.

[Shaka]

Regarding the lipping I dont even care that Mariah lips, I understand why. I only wish that she would update some of her tracks so they sound current. The lowered Without you climax from 1993 or the Oh holy night lines from 1994 are just too obvious. If she just updated them the transitions would be far more seamless and just more believable. But maybe they are not as noticeable when you are actually at a concert.

Yeah, I agree with you, but you're right about the last part, they are not as noticeable when you are actually live at the show, a casual listener won't tell the difference. Especially when she's in a good voice.
Even some "vocal coaches" don't notice the switches. Only lambs would know that it's a lowered pre-recorded track from 1993 or whatever.

I've come to understand why MC chooses to take the safe route to lip. I mean, just look at how every detail and note is dissected by armchair critics not only here but on Youtube (we've all seen those videos of people taking apart every note).

But, let's also credit the good sis too. She has been singing random bits of rare songs live between the set when she's in that mood a lot more. I appreciate those gems.

Her Christmas tour when she was giving us everything from One Child to Miss You Most >>>>

Yeah.
When she's in good vocal shape (and she knows it) and she's relaxed, magic happens.
She did so many of these random bits on Caution Tour as well.

Mariah Carey - ALL Snippets From The Caution World Tour!

Mariah Carey All The Snippets(From Caution World Tour-Europe Leg)

One Child

Miss You Most (At Christmas Time)

AMAZING.

[Shaka]

The last few pages were exhausting

Trolls are back in full force and there's an user with a double-account #Seeingrightthroughyoulikeyou'rebathinginWindex

Cardi has this Mariah meme saved

LMAO. Cardi is a festive mess.

I love those pics in the pool.
She looked fantastic #thatfacenoflaw

The other option is to maybe stop watching or following her.

Yeah, some people need to understand the art of letting go

We Belong Together top 40 on iTunes now. It's #36.

#35 now.

It will crack the Top 30 at any minute.

Meanwhile, OSD at #55.

[Robby]

While I would love to know all the juicy details about Mariah's changing voice, I think she will never talk about it and that is fine. It would ruin the mystique. I mean, what do we want her to say? "Yeah, I got older and I damaged it by [x] and now I can't hit those notes anymore or it isn't as fluid anymore" or "yeah, my voice will sometimes fail and so I will sing the run in a staccato fashion or sing a long lower belted note as it is easier than vibrato/runs" or "yeah, my voice is drier and raspier now, and can sometimes crack unexpectedly."... I mean, talk about a mood killer

this is not the only reason for going in depth about her voice. For one, it can serve as a warning sign and or roadmap for young and mature singers (especially those with nodules) on what (not) to do. It can add a lot of context to her career as I firmly believe that personal style and preference is not the only reason her career shifted away from AC.
it can further help to understand her frame of mind during and throughout certain eras.

Ppl keep dismissing and avoiding actually discussing this in a normal way as though it is something very superficial and insignificant. And while I agree, her voice is not the only thing she is about, it’s what she’s known for.

idk i just find the topic very interesting.

[InfoFromAus]

I am happy actually that OSD is seeing some action too - that there is interest in the song, or at least a curiosity.

WBT doing well with the discount is expected, but OSD despite being her record holder with huge physical sales is often forgetting these days given her huge digital and streaming hits.

[Shaka]

Overall:

#1 digital + #1 streaming = AIWFCIY
#2 digital + #6 streaming = Obsessed
#3 digital + #2 streaming = WBT
#4 digital + #11 streaming - TMB
#5 digital + #5 physical + #3 streamins - ABMB
#6 digital + #12 streaming = #Beautiful
#7 digital + #2 physical + #7 streaming - Fantasy
#8 digital + #18 streaming = Shake It Off
#9 digital + #6 physical + #5 streaming = Hero
#10 digital + #1 physical + #10 streaming - OSD

Obsessed is such a hit

This is my favorite performance of the song.

She nailed the climax and the whistles (the only time she did dem live IMO).
Also the only time she did the Eb5 belt (3:29).

She was on fire that night.

[Chris87]

Ok… *claps hands mid air ‘I have something to say’

For a long time I was Mariah’s biggest critic when it came to her incessant lipping at shows but I have to say we have been so fortunate that over the last couple of years she has toured so much and generally speaking the more she performs the less she lips. There is honestly very little lipping at her live shows anymore… sometimes she’ll lip all of Dreamlover and Fantasy… sometimes she’ll sing em live. Or a bit of both. Same with Heartbreaker but usually that’s more live these days. Most of the rest of her songs it’s all live save a backing tracked line or two… I’m sorry but you can’t argue with that when it’s the industry standard and any artist like a Celine or a Beyoncé does exactly the same having seen them all live many times.

I do agree she could re record some of the lipped bits and she has at times and sometimes reverts to the old versions. I think the only one we all prepare for her having the same climax to each time is ABMB.

For me her ad libs and live singing at her shows since 2016 has been ON POINT for the most part, we are so lucky to have that, we can watch every gig on YouTube and there have been hundreds of them the last few years compared to the 90’s.

she deffo is doing the best she can with what she’s got.

[Shaka]

For me her ad libs and live singing at her shows since 2016 has been ON POINT for the most part, we are so lucky to have that, we can watch every gig on YouTube and there have been hundreds of them the last few years compared to the 90’s.

she deffo is doing the best she can with what she’s got.

Yep, I know!
I just posted a few from '19 but there's countless of them.

All those impromptu performances from her home in '20 were amazing.

TEOM songs

Last Kiss

There's Got to Be a Way

Save The Day

[tee]

this is not the only reason for going in depth about her voice. For one, it can serve as a warning sign and or roadmap for young and mature singers (especially those with nodules) on what (not) to do. It can add a lot of context to her career as I firmly believe that personal style and preference is not the only reason her career shifted away from AC.
it can further help to understand her frame of mind during and throughout certain eras.

Ppl keep dismissing and avoiding actually discussing this in a normal way as though it is something very superficial and insignificant. And while I agree, her voice is not the only thing she is about, it’s what she’s known for.

idk i just find the topic very interesting.

I find it quite interesting as well. However if the topic doesnt fit the narrative a few members like to push then the topic should not be discussed going forward.