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  • Originally posted by stevyy View Post

    Music Box was not well received. I wonder why. I love it. It's such a gentle album. If weighted today by MetaCritic it would have got a score of 48-52.... which is really bad. Maybe... the press was pressed bc of her success at the time.
    The press was clearly out to get her and all that success just feeds their jealousy and notion that she is manufactured. Also, they probably already had a critical darling in Whitney and need someone else to punch.

    What's worst is the disrespect from some lambs today. They forget that adult contemporary and pop was huge during that time and there's a reason why this album is a mega monster success worldwide. It was her global launcher and was an undeniable album everywhere (the same way Adele 21's smashed, this was very similar). The success gave her creative freedom and obviously more trust from the label to give her that freedom.

    This album has her 2nd biggest global smash, arguably Without You, and her signature ballad, Hero. It also has the vocal behemoth Anytime You Need A Friend, and the blueprint for all Mariah lead singles in the form of Dreamlover.

    The sound started by Music Box gave birth to Merry Christmas...if it leaned closer to Daydream it wouldn't be a classic that it is today.

    We should all be streaming and highlighting this album more today.










    Last edited by skylynx; Mon August 30, 2021, 13:45.

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    • **SPOILER ALERT for those who haven't seen FREE GUY**

      So I finally watched Free Guy in cinemas yesterday. The movie is so much fun and a very good crowd pleaser. I relished the opportunity to hear Fantasy on the big speakers in cinemas or else I would've probably streamed it.

      I must say, every time the song came on put a smile on my face, this song is just the type of nostalgic, great melody/hook and burst of sunshine that we all need today. There's so many Mimi references in here (or at least as a lamb you try to associate LOL)

      * The Unicorn
      * The Island at the end where there's clearly butterflies
      * Vintage Mariah reference
      * The love of 5 octave divas
      * Millie mentioning Mariah a few times
      * Also the Miley Cyrus "I came in like a wrecking ball"...."No" momment, perhaps Ryan is being the shady lamb that he is LOL we all know what Miley Cyrus said about her schtick.

      Also the use of the song in the haunting dramatic slowed down rendition at the end just goes to show what a great melody and lyric the song has and has that innocense and fun carefree vibe that as human beings we all crave.

      I really need that haunting version in full length stream. That scene at the end was so touching where Guy says he is just a love letter and that her real admirer is outhere in the real world. Life in some ways is a fantasy, we hope and wish for that which isn't always true....but when that which we have been searching for is there all along, it's just so incredible.

      I hope that rumour of Mariah doing something with Millie is true, I would love to hear Mariah's interpretation of that haunting sound. They need to do it soon if it is ever going to happen as the movie is already in its 3rd week of release.

      Had this been a regular cinema release in Spring/Summer I swear it would've reached a massive audience and we could well see Fantasy doing better than it has been doing so far. But it is what it is and i'm just so happy to finally hear a full Mariah song in cinemas properly. LOL



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      • I love me some Music Box, love listening some songs separately but it's an album of its time. As a body of work I prefer other records and I'm really happy Mariah explored other sounds and productions.
        Saying that, some of the vocals are out of this world but I find some songs impersonal. The best cut for me is Everything fades away.
        And I don't get why some criticisize the lambs just because some of us don't love this record.

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        • Originally posted by ElusiveButterfly View Post
          It’s mostly underrated by the lambs I think, not the general public. I’m also one of those lambs that don’t rank Music Box very high, not because its not good but just because my taste is more towards R&B/ Hip-Hop so I prefer her other works.
          Of course lambs all have there preferences and likes but some are incredibly rude and ignorant about this album as though it's the worst in her discography.

          Whilst I would've loved for a Music Box II (in terms of sound, production) I guess that's what Merry Christmas was. I see them both as the closest together, similar the first two albums (Mariah and Emotions). Then from Daydream onwards she changed her sound very fast. It was obviously good for staying on the trend of the music but as we've seen, it can cost you audience wise.

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          • Originally posted by skylynx View Post


            Whilst I would've loved for a Music Box II (in terms of sound, production) I guess that's what Merry Christmas was. I see them both as the closest together, similar the first two albums (Mariah and Emotions). Then from Daydream onwards she changed her sound very fast. It was obviously good for staying on the trend of the music but as we've seen, it can cost you audience wise.
            That's an interesting grouping (MC & Emotions vs. MB and MXmas) that I didnt think about before, but it kind of makes sense.
            See The Mariah Carey Discography Rate
            See The Report Card - Weekly Top Songs

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            • Im completely blown away by that MSG concert! Its easily on my Top 3 Mariah shows ever! She was just stellar! Hopefully all Music Box & Daydream Tour dates end up leaking eventually, its impossible that those dates went without anyone in the audience recording them.

              PS: That stage presence! Its pretty evident that she stiffened as her voice diminished. Shes a great songwriter, but shes a vocalist first and her identity as a musician comes from being the best vocalist. Losing that has to tarnish her security. Because that show was just wow.

              PS 2: That Dreamlover (Def Club Mix) outro had me on the floor. Never saw that coming or knew that it even existed.
              Last edited by GlenMarley; Mon August 30, 2021, 14:35.

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              • Music Box was not well received by critics because its a schmaltzy fest and a fast turn to a commercial sound. Its much more polished sounding that Debut and Emotions but pure saccharine. It did accomplish its mission tho.

                Dont know why you want it to be perfect, it just isnt. At all. It served the purpose for which it was created: consolidating Mariah as a star and translating the success she'd already had in the US/Canada to worldwide audiences. That it did and it def exceeded all expectations.

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                • Originally posted by stevyy View Post

                  Music Box was not well received. I wonder why. I love it. It's such a gentle album. If weighted today by MetaCritic it would have got a score of 48-52.... which is really bad. Maybe... the press was pressed bc of her success at the time.
                  Yet the 1997 and 1998 albums from Celine were massive success and even won album of the year on the Grammys. Mariah did it better and were self written and produced and were bombed

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                  • Originally posted by mm2912 View Post

                    Yet the 1997 and 1998 albums from Celine were massive success and even won album of the year on the Grammys. Mariah did it better and were self written and produced and were bombed
                    LTAL had the assist of Titanic.

                    Falling Into You filled the void left by Music Box. It was non-offensive, highly listenable adult contemporary that appealed to the masses and was marketed very well. Sony afterall was behind both labels.


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                    • Beautiful rendition.





                      Last edited by skylynx; Mon August 30, 2021, 14:46.

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                      • Originally posted by skylynx View Post

                        LTAL had the assist of Titanic.

                        Falling Into You filled the void left by Music Box. It was non-offensive, highly listenable adult contemporary that appealed to the masses and was marketed very well. Sony afterall was behind both labels.

                        What I mean is Mariah did it writing and producing original songs herself and Celine albums had the best producers and songwriters sending the best material to put the album together like a compilation she just had to go to the mic booth and sing and guess who got the critical acclaim and a bunch of Grammys ? Mariah didn’t even get a nomination

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                        • Originally posted by mm2912 View Post

                          What I mean is Mariah did it writing and producing original songs herself and Celine albums had the best producers and songwriters sending the best material to put the album together like a compilation she just had to go to the mic booth and sing and guess who got the critical acclaim and a bunch of Grammys ? Mariah didn’t even get a nomination
                          It doesn't matter to the Grammy's who writes and produces the album. There is no onus or law which said the singer has to also write. And there still isn't. Also there were plenty of other writers and producers in Music Box working with Mariah.
                          " And i think you should take a second just to look at your reflection
                          Baby maybe you're the problem "

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                          • Originally posted by InFamous View Post

                            It doesn't matter to the Grammy's who writes and produces the album. There is no onus or law which said the singer has to also write. And there still isn't. Also there were plenty of other writers and producers in Music Box working with Mariah.
                            Of course the artistry matters for them, look at Billie Eeilish she’s always praised and got a bunch of Grammys because she and her brother wrote and produced her entire record. When music box and Celine albums are very similitwr in sounding and when you have to weight and you decide to give all the flowers to the one that had less artistry input, well..

                            anyway I don’t think music box or Celine genetic albums should’ve got ALBUM OF THE YEAR anyway. The year Celine won I think secrets by Toni deserved more and wasn’t even nominated and Fugees who was nominated deserved more than Celine’s

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                            • Critics didn't like Mariah during the MB years because she JUST got married to the label boss and they thought her massive success was due to that. Also Music Box was more 'generic' in sound compared to her previous output. Remember she was nominated for Producer of the Year in 1992 but then MB was too ballad heavy and I guess it was more samey in terms of production. No wonder they saw it as an artistic step back.

                              In regards to Celine, y'all doing too much. Falling into You is an amazing album and they were in different parts of their carrers. If anything, MB is more similar to The Colour of My Love.

                              Also, word on the street is that Motolla was furious after the Grammys snubbed Daydream and that is the reason why Falling into You won Album of the Year (another Sony release) the following year.
                              Previously known as sYair

                              Follow me on LastFM: http://www.lastfm.es/user/S-Yair
                              www.instagram.com/sebastiansuaid/

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                              • We might also need to look at the nominated albums that year. Albums on the same genre are at a disadvantage coz points might split bet. those albums.
                                A place in time still belongs to us...

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                                • We may take in consideration that musical critic has changed a lot since then. Back in the day they tend to criticisize the kind of music Mariah was doing and they were snobs.
                                  Current critics have broken down prejudices towards some genres and artists

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                                  • They had the chance to make things right with The Emancipation and yet again… Grammy Awards are the worst!

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                                    • Originally posted by mm2912 View Post

                                      Of course the artistry matters for them, look at Billie Eeilish she’s always praised and got a bunch of Grammys because she and her brother wrote and produced her entire record. When music box and Celine albums are very similitwr in sounding and when you have to weight and you decide to give all the flowers to the one that had less artistry input, well..

                                      anyway I don’t think music box or Celine genetic albums should’ve got ALBUM OF THE YEAR anyway. The year Celine won I think secrets by Toni deserved more and wasn’t even nominated and Fugees who was nominated deserved more than Celine’s
                                      The fact that Celine won literally shows that it doesn't matter if the artist writes or not lol. Also I'm pretty sure Toni didn't do much writing on Secrets either.
                                      " And i think you should take a second just to look at your reflection
                                      Baby maybe you're the problem "

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                                      • Originally posted by carey18ph View Post
                                        We might also need to look at the nominated albums that year. Albums on the same genre are at a disadvantage coz points might split bet. those albums.
                                        Fugees
                                        Beck
                                        smashing Pumpkins
                                        waiting to exhale soundtrack

                                        very bleak nominations imo

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                                        • Things felt so much bigger back in the 90s when there's no social media and computer usage was still low. There's a mystique around artists like MJ that made them feel as though they're god like and untouchable. The days when fans would literally faint and cry as soon as they see the stars.

                                          Poor Mariah here, the look on her face was like petrified. Though what on earth was security and the venue doing, they should've anticipated the huge crowds and cleared a path for her.

                                          I think the clip said something along the lines of it's the biggest crowd seen in Paris since MJ. I mean, this biatch was huge globally back in the mid-90s. Whoever says Mariah is local just need to be shown these.

                                          Last edited by skylynx; Mon August 30, 2021, 17:44.

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                                          • That clip is amazing but it is scary to think that people could've gotten so close to her in an unruly manner like that.
                                            See The Mariah Carey Discography Rate
                                            See The Report Card - Weekly Top Songs

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                                            • Originally posted by delapuerta View Post
                                              Music Box tour Madison Square Garden in full

                                              52:32, audience member saying “I love this song” over and over for 25 seconds

                                              Bish, me too!

                                              We finally have a decent quality live performance of All In Your Mind
                                              Last edited by allygdale; Mon August 30, 2021, 18:24.

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                                              • Anything you need to know about the Grammys is this... When Caution made the shortlist for the Grammy of Album of The Year in 2018, Billboard Magazine was quick to say that it couldn't get nominated bc it wasn't successful enough. Here I thought, that it was about quality...

                                                When you think of it... how can the Grammys be about quality and be THE music prize for excellence when they hardly nominate anything from international artists? What it really is, is that it is a local US American award and promotional tool for recording labels to showcase the popular acts from the anglosphere.

                                                When Mariah was successful... her music was bad. When Mariah's music was good, the was not successful enough.
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                                                • About Music Box... Music Box is a great album. In hindsight, even more than during its original run. It gave us one of the most revered ballads ever recorded, Hero. Hero is an international mega hit and known the world over. It is often used when tragedy happens globally. It is often used to celebrate and it is often used for casting show contestants to show off their artistic vocal delivery.

                                                  If anything, this one song should have won a Grammy. It was nominated for Best female pop vocal performance I believe.

                                                  I also think that with Mariah it has never been about the music per se... but her husband. Tommy Mottola might have done wonders for her career with his vision for success... but he also turned the press against her and with that the Recording Academy. One would think that all of her revelations... his abuse (knife on face incident etc) would have given her some sympathy... but that has not happened yet. I'm not sure why this is, but she cannot change that.

                                                  It's also naive to think that she was the only one with a powerful man behind the scenes. Clive Davis, whoever was heading Warner at the time, Tommy for Céline as well (as well as her manager husband)... it's not like they all had to fend for themselves, totally abandoned and only succeeded bc the audiences stood by their sides for 30 years.
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                                                  • This is my favorite Without You ever!!!
                                                    I can't even know what to say...

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