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  • Originally posted by stevyy View Post

    i don't have to wait for the next album in order to know that Caution was a great album.
    *Sigh* Caution was well received because it was a great album. It made several best of the year lists and casual listeners love it. But some love to bring her down continously

    Comment


    • After what she offered last year: MC30, vinyl reissues, the rarities, a new OSD and a Christmas special, a brilliant memoir and audiobook (that worked well), some "at home" performances and she's still under the critic of her fans.
      Melissa has done a great job after the NYE fiasco, rebuilding her image. She has only released one proper record since that moment.
      She's difficult just because she knows what she wants to do.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by mm2912 View Post

        You have a point. Mariah is her worst enemy sadly
        I was coming here to write this. Mariah is her own worst enemy.
        She hates any sort of authority due to her upbringing and marriage, and is still clearlyl traumatised by what she went through, and so rebels against all management, seeming to continuously have an issue with her labels.. how many of them has she publicly criticised/bad mouthed/rolled her eyes at/expressed desperation to leave? All of them. I dont know any other artists still around that have done that?
        Mix this with her success, and she thinks she’s knows what’s good for her career. She’s said it multiple times - she’s spoken of arguing with the label about what single it should be, how A or B should look, that she wanted to do X or Y, but the label wouldn’t let her: She’s even outright said “I think I know what’s best for my career at this point”.
        Re fashion: there was a time in the early 00’s where fashion and Mariah were discussed, and they spoke about how she always alters what designers send her, and they have a hard time with her. But even if she looks fabulous (and I will always stand by the fact that, irl, she’s the most beautiful woman ive ever seen), she doesnt bother to turn up to these events.

        The crux of it: She lives in a bubble at this point, and doesn’t know what’s best for her. Combined with (and I say with all kindness) a questionable taste, she’s out of touch and rebellious against the professionals in her industry, and we’re left with what we have.
        It’s been a very long time coming, I will always listen to everything she does, but yeah, I think at this point there is no one to blame for her predicament but herself. .

        Comment


        • Originally posted by locoporti View Post

          Because Jlo has Benny Medina as her manager , we all saw what he did for Mariah during the TEOM era.

          And that's the point - Mariah for me proved to be unmanageable and that's why she's invisible to the general public from January to October. She probably couldn't get Cardi B for a remix during the Caution era due to the lack of a professional by her side that could help things to come to fruition. I'm even scared to think about the movie based on her memoir that could end up being dumped to the Hallmark Channel at this point.
          And yet she would let the likes of Stella and Sushi to manage her career. That and all the mishaps happened post-E=MC2 have somehow proved how stubborn she is and that she gets comfortable with being surrounded by yes people.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by delapuerta View Post
            After what she offered last year: MC30, vinyl reissues, the rarities, a new OSD and a Christmas special, a brilliant memoir and audiobook (that worked well), some "at home" performances and she's still under the critic of her fans.
            Melissa has done a great job after the NYE fiasco, rebuilding her image. She has only released one proper record since that moment.
            She's difficult just because she knows what she wants to do.
            What she wants to do doesbnt equate to it being the best thing for her to do. It would be a fair enough comment if she was doing stuff off her own back and smacking, dazzling everyone, but she’s not. She’s difficult because she’s rebelling against professional guidance and does what she wants, to her detriment, and often in a messy or incomplete way. This falters her image > the label dont invest > the cycle repeats.

            Comment


            • I don't agree at all with this. She's in a good place in her life now. Taking care of herself and we know about her mental issues.
              What should we blame her of? Of doing what she wants? She's earned that right.
              I've listened to her latest interviews and podcast stuff and she's more opened, free than ever. She's entitled to express her problems with the label. Who are to tell her what to say?

              Comment


              • A
                Originally posted by stevyy View Post

                idk what the criteria is of which reviews they added... but in Germany ALL major publications have reviewed Caution and gave it rave reviews. I have no idea why no German publication is used.

                I mean MetaCritic used 9 reviews, but the album made 16 publication's year end lists. (as far as we know).

                I also doubt that the other publications (whichever that may be) would differ much from Slant, Rolling Stone etc which were used for her weighted score. Would be weird if NME would rate it 1/5 while it got 4/5 from RS and equally as much from Slant.
                As far as I am aware metacritic is US based publications only. And only certain publications actually count.

                How did Caution do commercially in Germany btw ?
                " And i think you should take a second just to look at your reflection
                Baby maybe you're the problem "

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Watlingstreet View Post

                  What she wants to do doesbnt equate to it being the best thing for her to do. It would be a fair enough comment if she was doing stuff off her own back and smacking, dazzling everyone, but she’s not. She’s difficult because she’s rebelling against professional guidance and does what she wants, to her detriment, and often in a messy or incomplete way. This falters her image > the label dont invest > the cycle repeats.
                  I don't agree at all. What's best for her? Do you know? Do you want to patronize her? She's doing what she wants, her xmas projects work, her memoir worked. What do you suggest? Should she comeback to the days she was quiet about almost everything?
                  She's a grown woman, it's her life and her career, she has the right to fail, to do bad songs, to go into any project she likes. She's already Mariah, she's done her duty and work. If she wants to express her fights, her struggles it's up to her.
                  She has only released one proper record and you're talking like she was failing time after time. She's got some great deals like the chips thing and the Apple one.

                  We should be happy about how free and kind of happy she looks. She's left behind a lot of burden after the memoir release and the girl is still working her ass off.
                  Last edited by delapuerta; Tue September 14, 2021, 21:20.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by delapuerta View Post
                    I don't agree at all with this. She's in a good place in her life now. Taking care of herself and we know about her mental issues.
                    What should we blame her of? Of doing what she wants? She's earned that right.
                    I've listened to her latest interviews and podcast stuff and she's more opened, free than ever. She's entitled to express her problems with the label. Who are to tell her what to say?
                    Her being in a good place now + us knowing about her mental health issues have literally nothing to do with what we’re discussing. You CAN be in a good place personally and still not be objective about yourself/make bad decisions. Its not one or the other, and if you think it is, then this convo is somewhat redundant.

                    And for the record, I didn’t say she hasn’t earned the right; I said she makes bad decisions by having that right.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by skylynx View Post
                      JLO is back with Ben Affleck, he was the original source of her rise to celebrity superstardom, Bennifer.

                      Now that they're back she's obviously in hot demand and the lips of most jus coming off debuting their renewed relationshop at the Venice Film Festival.

                      Obviously it's a win win situation, she gets the exposure and the MET gets exposure as well because she brings in the tabloids.

                      Don't under-estimate JLO, she's probably a much smarter and importantly more driven businesswoman than Mariah. The fact that she can still command big red carpet appearances without releasing any noteworthy music the past decades tells alot.
                      JLO and Mariah are completely different. JLO has many different things going on and is not just about the music. She never was. She has had successful movies and TV shows which keep her out there. Plus her Spanish music does very well for her.

                      Honestly this whole thing of bringing JLO in here constantly is so tiresome. Just cos JLO was at the VMA's doesnt mean that Mariah had to be or should have been or whatever. And also claiming that Ben Affleck was responsible for JLO's fame is just delusional and wrong - JLO has been in the business for over 20 years and was perfectly fine without Ben Affleck on her arm.
                      " And i think you should take a second just to look at your reflection
                      Baby maybe you're the problem "

                      Comment


                      • [QUOTE=delapuerta;n10715256]

                        “I don't agree at all. What's best for her? Do you know? Do you want to patronize her? She's doing what she wants, her xmas projects work, her memoir worked. What do you suggest? Should she comeback to the days she was quiet about almost everything?
                        She's a grown woman, it's her life and her career, she has the right to fail, to do bad songs, to go into any project she likes. She's already Mariah, she's done her duty and work. If she wants to express her fights, her struggles it's up to her.
                        She has only released one proper record and you're talking like she was failing time after time. She's got some great deals like the chips thing and the Apple one.”


                        So you think her career, considering everything, is in the place it should be, and all issues are acceptable just because? And you think we shouldn’t have any “negative” opinion on her/comment on her failures because its her right to? What unrealistic dimension are you living in?
                        Look hun, ultimately I’m not here to have convos with delusional fans who cant take the reality that her career isn’t where it should be. If you dont like what I’m saying, move on! But I honestly CBA to continue further than this post with convos about “she has the right to fail if she wants’. like, please. Its Mariah. She doesnt want to fail (and if u havent realised that at this point, then youre not paying attention). And if she does fail? Then the reasons she has are up for discussion, including the fact that she’s played a part in leading her career to this point. Its not a negative, its a reality. Its not hatred, its called adult discussion and responsibility for her part in her own career, something the lambs like you shout about when it goes well, but shut the rest of us down when the blatant flaws are hilighted. Not me.
                        Last edited by Watlingstreet; Tue September 14, 2021, 21:30.

                        Comment


                        • ^ Thank you for this. I'm so over reading about "another female entertainer" in here... she is smarter and wiser and prettier... OK now please stop.
                          #mariahcarey #lambforlife

                          Comment


                          • Who haven't make bad decissions in their lives?

                            Also her last 4 years have been good. Touring, releasing music, receiving a golden globe nom, getting aiwfc at #1, a memoir being NYT bestselling book, a xmas special, loads of reissues, remixes, the rarities etc., I only see good decissions in terms of her legacy and image.
                            And her being in a good place and her issues are important in all of this.
                            Her career was about to be ender under the nye fiasco and she came back the next year.
                            I know some of you only want her to success and charts domination, but doing different stuff to enjoy them, for your fanbase and having a career still is.

                            Comment


                            • Look what they used in Vogue

                              https://www.instagram.com/p/CT0RS9XJPL9/

                              Comment


                              • [QUOTE=Watlingstreet;n10715263]
                                Originally posted by delapuerta View Post

                                “I don't agree at all. What's best for her? Do you know? Do you want to patronize her? She's doing what she wants, her xmas projects work, her memoir worked. What do you suggest? Should she comeback to the days she was quiet about almost everything?
                                She's a grown woman, it's her life and her career, she has the right to fail, to do bad songs, to go into any project she likes. She's already Mariah, she's done her duty and work. If she wants to express her fights, her struggles it's up to her.
                                She has only released one proper record and you're talking like she was failing time after time. She's got some great deals like the chips thing and the Apple one.”


                                So you think her career, considering everything, is in the place it should be, and all issues are acceptable just because? And you think we shouldn’t have any “negative” opinion on her/comment on her failures because its her right to? What unrealistic dimension are you living in?
                                Look hun, ultimately I’m not here to have convos with delusional fans who cant take the reality that her career isn’t where it should be. If you dont like what I’m saying, move on! But I honestly CBA to continue further than this post with convos about “she has the right to fail if she wants’. like, please. Its Mariah. She doesnt want to fail (and if u havent realised that at this point, then youre not paying attention). And if she does fail? Then the reasons she has are up for discussion, including the fact that she’s played a part in leading her career to this point.s Its not a negative, its a reality. Its not hatred, its called adult discussion and responsibility for her part in her own career, something the lambs like you shout about when it goes well, but shut the rest of us down when the blatant flaws are hilighted. Not me.
                                I'm not delusional. 1st don't disrespect me.
                                Some of you come here like it's easy to have success or if she does "x" or "y" she will have it. And that's not how it works.
                                I know very well what's her status, current success but I'm ok with it. She's gone through very dark moments like the Stella days and I'm just happy of having her doing some stuff and living.
                                She's still one of the most streamed artists of the 90s, she's doing projects she likes and that's enough. This is not like playing SIMS with Mariah's career. It is what it is, with her good and bad. Just like everybody else
                                Last edited by delapuerta; Tue September 14, 2021, 23:10.

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by Watlingstreet View Post

                                  I was coming here to write this. Mariah is her own worst enemy.
                                  She hates any sort of authority due to her upbringing and marriage, and is still clearlyl traumatised by what she went through, and so rebels against all management, seeming to continuously have an issue with her labels.. how many of them has she publicly criticised/bad mouthed/rolled her eyes at/expressed desperation to leave? All of them. I dont know any other artists still around that have done that?
                                  Mix this with her success, and she thinks she’s knows what’s good for her career. She’s said it multiple times - she’s spoken of arguing with the label about what single it should be, how A or B should look, that she wanted to do X or Y, but the label wouldn’t let her: She’s even outright said “I think I know what’s best for my career at this point”.
                                  Re fashion: there was a time in the early 00’s where fashion and Mariah were discussed, and they spoke about how she always alters what designers send her, and they have a hard time with her. But even if she looks fabulous (and I will always stand by the fact that, irl, she’s the most beautiful woman ive ever seen), she doesnt bother to turn up to these events.

                                  The crux of it: She lives in a bubble at this point, and doesn’t know what’s best for her. Combined with (and I say with all kindness) a questionable taste, she’s out of touch and rebellious against the professionals in her industry, and we’re left with what we have.
                                  It’s been a very long time coming, I will always listen to everything she does, but yeah, I think at this point there is no one to blame for her predicament but herself. .
                                  Well written

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by delapuerta View Post

                                    You're giving for sure things you don't know. She couldn't get Cardi due to a budget thing.
                                    Melissa has done a great job and your remark is unfair
                                    I don't recall anything being said about the Cardi situation due to budget. Do you have anything to support this claim ?

                                    Didnt Cardi say she had no time to do it, although she somehow found time to do a verse on a million other songs ?
                                    " And i think you should take a second just to look at your reflection
                                    Baby maybe you're the problem "

                                    Comment


                                    • It's funny some on here saying don't disrespect them when clearly what they've said previously shows alot about who they are. Next please.

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by delapuerta View Post
                                        Who haven't make bad decissions in their lives?

                                        Also her last 4 years have been good. Touring, releasing music, receiving a golden globe nom, getting aiwfc at #1, a memoir being NYT bestselling book, a xmas special, loads of reissues, remixes, the rarities etc., I only see good decissions in terms of her legacy and image.
                                        And her being in a good place and her issues are important in all of this.
                                        Her career was about to be ender under the nye fiasco and she came back the next year.
                                        I know some of you only want her to success and charts domination, but doing different stuff to enjoy them, for your fanbase and having a career still is.
                                        Again: doing stuff doesnt equate to it being done as well as it could have been. To want something to be done to the best of its ability is a genuine, valid want. It doesnt diminish what she’s done - quite the contrary; it means I think that a different, potentially more successful route could have been taken considering the quality she is capable of.
                                        And if we talk about this stuff: Remixes that were already in existence that then got added digitally, but incompletely? Albums released with no promo and only hardcore fans buying it (and theres only thousands of us left). Going through multiple managers. Her most successful thing in the last few years was the Xmas project, but even that comes with the foundation of a) Xmas itself and b) her previous chart success at Xmas. Its not a new thing thats suddenly wow, despite how much I enjoyed it. But i give her props for it, though that still doesnt negate other fails.

                                        I’ll say it again for them at the back: you can enjoy and love anything in the world, and still talk about it objectively, and shed light on where it went wrong. Its not hating. Its valid, adult discussion. It’s what the forum was designed for.
                                        To hate Mariah would be to tell her she’s fabulous when she’s effing up.

                                        Comment


                                        • [QUOTE=delapuerta;n10715273]
                                          Originally posted by Watlingstreet View Post

                                          I'm not delusional. 1st don't disrespect me.
                                          Some of you come here like there's easy to have success or if she does "x" or "y" she will have it. And that's not how it works.
                                          I know very well what's her status, current success but I'm ok with it. She's gone through very dark moments like the Stella days and I'm just happy of having her doing some stuff and living.
                                          She's still one of the most streamed artists of the 90s, she's doing projects she likes and that's enough. This is not like playing SIMS with Mariah's career. It is what it is, with her good and bad. Just like everybody else
                                          I didnt say you werent okay with it boo. And good for you if you are. But we’re allowed to discuss Mariahs own part in her career without you basically saying “it is what it is and we shouldn’t discuss her responsibility in it”.

                                          And yeah, we’ve all made mistakes. But bub, this is the Mariah Carey forum. Thats why I’m discussing Mariah Careys faults in her own handling of Mariah Careys career.
                                          If you want, please start a Watling Street thread and discuss my faults. IDC. But I’m literally keeping it in context.
                                          Last edited by Watlingstreet; Tue September 14, 2021, 21:53.

                                          Comment


                                          • Clearly some on here are satisfied with the status quo....continue with that and resign yourself to that. Even enjoy that if that's what you want.

                                            Though don't chime in or attack others when they express that a different path should be taken and point out the things that can be done better. Stay in your predictable group and talk amongst yourself. Let others discuss and talk about the things which have too long been sequestered.

                                            Comment


                                            • You're making wrong remarks even about my posts. I've said that I know how things are but it ain't that deep and it's her life.
                                              She's uploaded loads of remixes, but you complain about te ones that are not up. Ok.
                                              She's released just Caution and it went bad. The Rarities is just for the fans.
                                              She did a decent Caution tour, European xmas shows, Asian greatest hits shows. An special with Apple. A succesful memoir. She's being with Melissa since 2018, besides 2020 that Melissa left Roc Nation and now they're together again.
                                              And your opinion is not objective. It's your opinion, based on your values and what you think are facts
                                              Last edited by delapuerta; Tue September 14, 2021, 21:54.

                                              Comment


                                              • [QUOTE=Watlingstreet;n10715286]
                                                Originally posted by delapuerta View Post

                                                I didnt say you werent okay with it boo. And good for you if you are. But we’re allowed to discuss Mariah own part in her career without you basically saying “it is what it is and we shouldn’t discuss her responsibility in it”.
                                                You are allowed and I'm allowed to disagree with you in the tone and content of your post

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by InFamous View Post

                                                  JLO and Mariah are completely different. JLO has many different things going on and is not just about the music. She never was. She has had successful movies and TV shows which keep her out there. Plus her Spanish music does very well for her.

                                                  Honestly this whole thing of bringing JLO in here constantly is so tiresome. Just cos JLO was at the VMA's doesnt mean that Mariah had to be or should have been or whatever. And also claiming that Ben Affleck was responsible for JLO's fame is just delusional and wrong - JLO has been in the business for over 20 years and was perfectly fine without Ben Affleck on her arm.
                                                  IMHO Mariah handled the whole situation with that certain 0.1-octave singer really well. She acted with class and simply responded with the iconic “I don’t know her”. If it were certain upcoming singers/rappers, it would have been some sort of personal insults or even physical attacks.

                                                  Like for real, the existence of that certain singer/dancer is part of a plot to destroy and cancel Mariah and drag her out of the industry, and yet, look how far she’s come with that 0.1 octave vocal range.

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Originally posted by delapuerta View Post
                                                    You're making wrong remarks even about my posts. I've said that I know how things are but it ain't that deep and it's her life.
                                                    She's uploaded loads of remixes, but you complain about te ones that are not up. Ok.
                                                    She's released just Caution and it went bad. The Rarities is just for the fans.
                                                    She did a decent Caution tour, European xmas shows, Asian greatest hits shows. An special with Apple. A succesful memoir. She's being with Melissa since 2018, besides 2020 that Melissa left Roc Nation and now they're together again.
                                                    And your opinion is not objective. It's your opinion, based on your values and what you think are facts

                                                    It is her life, well spotted, but am I not free to discuss it on a thread titled Mariah Carey? Otherwise what’s the point of this thread? Do you propose it’s an “only positive comments only” thread? What are you gaining by policing mine and others opinions just to focus on the positive?

                                                    I am allowed to complain about whatever I want without your input that I’m being x or y, or shouldn’t focus on something thank you.
                                                    My voice here is as valid as yours, even if you are triggered about criticism.

                                                    and re your most recent point: you can disagree, but you didn’t just disagree, you criticised us for criticising. Do you not see the flaw in your argument?

                                                    Comment

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