Madonna

[BodyShop]

Comments section under her latest post it’s like a Portuguese forum........

Yes!!
Actually,this is very important to us because he's been on a downfall spiral and this last week he's been massacred by social media and the media in general.
Tomorrow, protests will happen across the country.
Ppl are retweeting/reposting her message across all platforms.


Sorry for keep on talking about this but it's SUCH an issue for us here. You guys have no idea.

[CandyShop]

Comments section under her latest post it’s like a Portuguese forum........

Yes!!
Actually,this is very important to us because he's been on a downfall spiral and this last week he's been massacred by social media and the media in general.
Tomorrow, protests will happen across the country.
Ppl are retweeting/reposting her message across all platforms.


Sorry for keep on talking about this but it's SUCH an issue for us here. You guys have no idea.

It’ actually a very interesting issue, that I admit I was totally unaware of!!

[CandyShop]

What a bit*h she is

https://www.facebook.com/vemdarclosevia ... 799706317/

[MrLeonix]

What she did between 1998-2002 . . . . Two back to back albums of that caliber of quality and artistry ("Ray Of Ligt" and "Music"), a beautiful and artistic tour to back those albums up ("The Drowned World Tour") and edgy cool non-boring soundtrack singles in the middle ("Beautiful Stranger", "American Pie" and "Die Another Day"). . . . Is a kind of artistic peak that no other female pop star will ever reach / match.

[Artoo]

So in a few short week it will be 4 years since we got the first few leaks from Rebel Heart. What do we think of the album now?

I don’t think it’s Madonna best (and I do think she gave up in the end and just released everything she had finished) but I still think there’s a lot to enjoy on it. After all this time I think Ghostown, Iconic, Bitch I’m Madonna, Bodyshop, SEX and Best Night are my favourites.

But there are some great demos too - I absolutely love Never Let You Go, Score, Two Steps Behind Me, Freedom, Revolution and Avicci Heart... which I think is the best song she recorded for the album (and didn’t bloody make it!)

I never got the hate for Bitch I’m Madonna and Diplo’s work, and I’ve still don’t think Living For Love was lead single material. Holy Water is great, but it got tired fairly quickly. I’d have liked to have seen her mix up the songs she performed on tour too. Don’t know why so many people love the crappy version of Rebel Heart we ended up with though.

Controversial opinion I know, but I do prefer MDNA overall. But I understand why people think it was an improvement.

[KEY9481]

Re: Madonna

4 years already??

[Washingtonian25]

I think the album aged way better than “MDNA”. It has somemessy moments, but it’s still ranked pretty high for me. “Ghosttown” is still a great song, probably one of the best Madonna released since 2000.

[Yoshie]

Her 90s music videos are something else. Not one of them is anything less than eleven out of ten perfection. Even the more simplistic ones ("I Want You"; "Love Don't Live Here Anymore" among them) feature very accomplished, stunning camera work and great cinematography. Artistically she was at her peak. My two favourite Madonna videos, "Bedtime Story" and "Bad Girl", are from that decade.

[CandyShop]

Her 80’s video are the most iconic, nothing less than the 90’s clip under a cinematography aspect ( see Like A Prayer, Papà Don’t Preach Express YourSelf, Borderline, Like A Virgin, Material Girl and I can go on.....

[beredy]

Her 70's music videos are still the most imaginative, artistic, visionary clips she ever did.

[beredy]

What's wrong with acting your age anyways?

Well the issue is that by definition, ‘acting your age’ is doing what society expects of you. Not only does that put pressure on people to censor themselves based on what is socially acceptable, but it’s basically what Madonna has fought her entire career.

I was on my phone yesterday and I don't like to type a lot because the keyboard is not listening and I'm tired of fixing stuff left and right. But "acting your age" bullcrap aside (which menime123 pretty much explained is a social construct and not something that's natural really) the problem with Madonna for me today is that she is way too childish and bratty and I think it shows in her creative output. She always had those "qualities" in her, but they felt like she used them to push social boundaries in a smart way. The things she does and posts nowadays feel like they're more for the sake of doing things and showing she's still cool without much relevance to anything in particular.

And the fact is she has posts where she shows she's clearly bothered (why post something in the line of "I'm not bothered" if you really don't care? Either you let it go or you don't. You just feed the trolls and acknowledge their opinions by referring to them.) by people disapproving her antics. I feel like she's trying to marry the obvious fact she has gotten older and kind of takes things slower (you don't need to look at anything other than her musical output which slowed down considerably, but of course that is to be expected - it comes with the age that you can't do stuff all the time) and yet still feels the need to keep the facade of forever fun and shocking girl we all know she is. I would love if she just said: "I'm being demented old lady doing weird stuff all the time, so **** y'all." There was this little show called "The Golden Girls" during the time she was becoming a huge superstar. I do feel sad that despite the success of the show and how it clearly stood up for the fact that growing old doesn't mean the end of life the society went in the completely opposite direction since then. Today people in their 30's are made to feel old and expected to "act their age".

There's this fine line she doesn't seem comfortable crossing. She blames "ageism" a lot, but she carefully never refers herself as old and/or aging when she clearly is. I want her to own up the fact that she collected quite a number of notches on the age rod. There's NOTHING to be ashamed of there. It will happen to everyone. And say - "OK, I'm old. But I'm my kind of old. Enjoy me or don't. And when you get to my kind of old, remember you can enjoy or be miserable." Instead (for me, and I clearly stress for me here as I know other can see it differently) she comes off as if she still wants to be one of the cool young modern kids. Sorry, not gonna happen. And after mastering the art of the album form and always coming up with different sounds (sometimes more, sometimes less) than what the usual pop soundscape was at the time of respective album releases, she is content with releasing albums of mixed bag sounds, where you go from trap sounds into ballads back to back without any flow or connection. That right there is the way of the "modern" pop girls who have albums filled with all different kind of songs just to throw all that sh*t into the fan and see what sticks on the wall in hopes of getting a hit. That's not the Madonna I love. Sorry.

[beredy]

Controversial opinion I know, but I do prefer MDNA overall. But I understand why people think it was an improvement.

MDNA is better.

I gave RH (+RH EP) a spin a week or so ago. Last.fm said I didn't play it since 2016 (when I gave it a whopping one album total spin), so I tried to see if maybe my feelings toward it will be any different. Nope. Still remains easily the worst Madonna album for me. Outside of Joan of Arc I can't find a single decent song on it. There's possibly a good song buried in Rebel Heart somewhere, but alas it never materialized and the final product leaves a lot to be desired.

[Artoo]

What's wrong with acting your age anyways?

Well the issue is that by definition, ‘acting your age’ is doing what society expects of you. Not only does that put pressure on people to censor themselves based on what is socially acceptable, but it’s basically what Madonna has fought her entire career.

I was on my phone yesterday and I don't like to type a lot because the keyboard is not listening and I'm tired of fixing stuff left and right. But "acting your age" bullcrap aside (which menime123 pretty much explained is a social construct and not something that's natural really) the problem with Madonna for me today is that she is way too childish and bratty and I think it shows in her creative output. She always had those "qualities" in her, but they felt like she used them to push social boundaries in a smart way. The things she does and posts nowadays feel like they're more for the sake of doing things and showing she's still cool without much relevance to anything in particular.

And the fact is she has posts where she shows she's clearly bothered (why post something in the line of "I'm not bothered" if you really don't care? Either you let it go or you don't. You just feed the trolls and acknowledge their opinions by referring to them.) by people disapproving her antics. I feel like she's trying to marry the obvious fact she has gotten older and kind of takes things slower (you don't need to look at anything other than her musical output which slowed down considerably, but of course that is to be expected - it comes with the age that you can't do stuff all the time) and yet still feels the need to keep the facade of forever fun and shocking girl we all know she is. I would love if she just said: "I'm being demented old lady doing weird stuff all the time, so **** y'all." There was this little show called "The Golden Girls" during the time she was becoming a huge superstar. I do feel sad that despite the success of the show and how it clearly stood up for the fact that growing old doesn't mean the end of life the society went in the completely opposite direction since then. Today people in their 30's are made to feel old and expected to "act their age".

There's this fine line she doesn't seem comfortable crossing. She blames "ageism" a lot, but she carefully never refers herself as old and/or aging when she clearly is. I want her to own up the fact that she collected quite a number of notches on the age rod. There's NOTHING to be ashamed of there. It will happen to everyone. And say - "OK, I'm old. But I'm my kind of old. Enjoy me or don't. And when you get to my kind of old, remember you can enjoy or be miserable." Instead (for me, and I clearly stress for me here as I know other can see it differently) she comes off as if she still wants to be one of the cool young modern kids. Sorry, not gonna happen. And after mastering the art of the album form and always coming up with different sounds (sometimes more, sometimes less) than what the usual pop soundscape was at the time of respective album releases, she is content with releasing albums of mixed bag sounds, where you go from trap sounds into ballads back to back without any flow or connection. That right there is the way of the "modern" pop girls who have albums filled with all different kind of songs just to throw all that sh*t into the fan and see what sticks on the wall in hopes of getting a hit. That's not the Madonna I love. Sorry.

Disagree disagree disagree and I think you missed the point.

Madonna shouldn’t have to own her age - why does she publicly have to explain her behaviour as her kind of old? It would suggest that she acknowledges she’s doing something wrong when the absolute truth is she isn’t. Madonna never explained herself in her 20s, her 30s, her 40s, her 50s and I see no reason why she has to explain it now she’s 60.

You suggest Madonna is childish and bratty - true - but that’s a personality trait she has had since before she was famous. If you watch her first MTV interviews she’s exactly the same. Yes we grow as we get older - and it’s clear Madonna has grown as a person - but I would argue that personality more or less stays the same. Instagram however allows her to express that and make it more visible than ever. So if you don’t want to see more of that aspect of Madonna... just don’t follow her.

Madonna is a smart woman. You say the things she does seem like an attempt at remaining cool and relevant, but let’s be honest: a smart woman isn’t going to be so transparent. She knows we don’t like the grills and she knows teenagers aren’t following her on Instagram - so why would she do something that we tell her makes her neither? It’s simple - she’s doing what she does because she likes what she’s doing.

I can’t believe you’re saying her output has slowed because of her age. Her output has reduced because in the last 10 years she’s been through a divorce, changed labels, released a greatest hits album, released 2 studio albums, completed 3.5 world tours (including S&S2 which was a first) and most importantly to her, she’s adopted 3 more children as a single woman whilst maintaining her financial commitment to Malawi (complete with regular visits). We can moan about the lack of new music but the truth is that Madonna has remained as busy as ever... and rightly so.

Yes, I do believe she took 2017 off, but it’s the most time she’s ever taken off work and even then she managed to launch MDNA Skin and move continent. But she has spent most of 2018 working on her album so this is quite honestly the calm before the storm.

But have you heard of a thing called the retirement age? Both men and women are expected to remain in full time work nowadays until they’re 70ish. So her age in another industry wouldn’t be a factor at all... and would quite rightly be called discrimination if it were considered as a reason for underperformance.

I find it interesting though that you’re using her age against her when discussing her personal output, but using her age to justify her lack professional output. This is ageism. You are using her age to explain and justify your opinion. This is the entire point - you have no right to judge Madonna and condemn her for not conforming to social expectations she doesn’t agree with. It’s the same as when she released SEX - she’s just breaking all the rules she didn’t make.

It’s important to note I don’t always agree with Madonna and what she does. But I won’t judge her for always being herself. She has always taught her fans to be 100% true to themselves and she deserves the same level of encouragement and respect back.

[Artoo]

Her 70's music videos are still the most imaginative, artistic, visionary clips she ever did.

So visionary they clearly don’t exist

[beredy]

Her 70's music videos are still the most imaginative, artistic, visionary clips she ever did.

So visionary they clearly don’t exist

I just wanted to continue the decades!

Will reply to your big post when I get back on the computer.

[beredy]

Madonna shouldn’t have to own her age - why does she publicly have to explain her behaviour as her kind of old? It would suggest that she acknowledges she’s doing something wrong when the absolute truth is she isn’t. Madonna never explained herself in her 20s, her 30s, her 40s, her 50s and I see no reason why she has to explain it now she’s 60.

But she is explaining it by being defensive and blaming "ageism" for whatever criticism comes her way. And that's what bothers me - it doesn't come with an IDGAF attitude like before. It's clearly something she is refusing to come to terms with.

You suggest Madonna is childish and bratty - true - but that’s a personality trait she has had since before she was famous. If you watch her first MTV interviews she’s exactly the same. Yes we grow as we get older - and it’s clear Madonna has grown as a person - but I would argue that personality more or less stays the same. Instagram however allows her to express that and make it more visible than ever. So if you don’t want to see more of that aspect of Madonna... just don’t follow her.

I said she always had those "qualities" and explained why I think her being like that was different back then and now. So read more carefully.

I can’t believe you’re saying her output has slowed because of her age. Her output has reduced because in the last 10 years she’s been through a divorce, changed labels, released a greatest hits album, released 2 studio albums, completed 3.5 world tours (including S&S2 which was a first) and most importantly to her, she’s adopted 3 more children as a single woman whilst maintaining her financial commitment to Malawi (complete with regular visits). We can moan about the lack of new music but the truth is that Madonna has remained as busy as ever... and rightly so.

Sorry, we must be talking about some other Madonna. The one I'm talking about went through abuses, divorces, label problems, greatest hits albums, tours and many many albums way before last 10 years. Sooooo maybe the reason it was easier back then for her was simply - she was younger? A lot of things are easier to deal with when you're younger. Fact. No shade there.

I find it interesting though that you’re using her age against her when discussing her personal output, but using her age to justify her lack professional output. This is ageism. You are using her age to explain and justify your opinion. This is the entire point - you have no right to judge Madonna and condemn her for not conforming to social expectations she doesn’t agree with. It’s the same as when she released SEX - she’s just breaking all the rules she didn’t make.

It’s important to note I don’t always agree with Madonna and what she does. But I won’t judge her for always being herself. She has always taught her fans to be 100% true to themselves and she deserves the same level of encouragement and respect back.

You missed my point completely. But I do feel you fell into a trap a lot of fans fall into. When their fave does something amazing - they cheer and are happy (which is more than fine of course). But when they do something they don't agree with, then the become all apologetic - "Oh but that's how he/she is. I might not agree but I won't come down on him/her for that.". Why? Do you act the same towards the people you know. Say - "Oh what he/she did was terrible, but that's how he/she is so I'll keep my mouth shut."?

And I repeat: I do not have problems with her being older and not acting her age. My problem with her is that she has gone so far into childish and bratty like she never was before. You mentioned SEX book. What she did there was definitely a clear statement on sexuality and feminity and on conservative society. You also mentioned grills. What's the statement for that? Bad fashion sense, a desperate attempt to be in with the cool grills wearing gang? How she acted before always had some point behind it. She allowed herself to be childish and bratty because there was always a greater point to it. And that was AMAZING. But somewhere along the line she started to have a disconnect between her behavior and having a point to it. When she and her fans say "People have always been hard on me." as an excuse and justification that it's not her problem, I do wonder why no one is actually questioning what are the reasons for people being hard on her back then and now. Is it just possible that this time she just might not be completely right?

Personally I would roll my eyes even if Miley or Demi were doing some stuff like Madonna nowadays. It's not about age, it's just about being "ugh" for me at its core.

[upushme]

With Martin Burgoyne. Madonna dedicated a song to him:

[youtube:2y9m1ozu]DDp7dC5J0_8[/youtube:2y9m1ozu]

[beredy]

^Awesome song and very important not just for her at that time.

[BodyShop]

Both of you guys,Menime and beredy have pretty good points.
One thing I don't - and will never- understand is,why do ppl think Madonna should be releasing music like she used to do in the past?
It doesn't matter the reason(s) ,she won't ever be like she once was.
Another thing, I find it funny how most of her fans say 'I know her chart days are behind now' but,the closer we get to a new release,hopes of new #1s or to see her getting a new hit skyrocket.
It would be so cool for everyone to lower down expectations and to fully understand and accept the fact that something like that will,most likely,never happen again.
And quality of new material also =/= chart success.

[Artoo]

Personally I would roll my eyes even if Miley or Demi were doing some stuff like Madonna nowadays. It's not about age, it's just about being "ugh" for me at its core.

I think you just totally miss the point that Madonna’s making and all I can say is that it’s a shame. Everyone in this thread knows I’m more than happy to criticise Madonna and go against the fan base with my opinions, so I’m not clouded or in any sort of fan trap. Ultimately you can’t see you’re judging Madonna by standards that you’ve been programmed to believe a woman of her age should be adhering to.

Take an objective step away from it and ask - is Madonna hurting anyone? No she’s not, so therefore I have no issue with her behaviour. She has proven herself to be a spiritual, kind, compassionate, self-aware, progressive, generous woman and an amazing mother to boot. That’s who Madonna is. Her nerdy, geeky, childish side is just her personality and humour - and as I said, it’s been there since the very start.

In terms of her output, she had a record label that required a studio album every 2.5 years for 20 years. She went from studio to stadiums to film sets without gaps or holidays in between. When she became a mother that all changed, and when she became a single mother it all changed again. My point was she has continued to work, but her musical output has reduced for factors other than her age.

Madonna is now in her 60s and for whatever reason, people are criticising her more than ever just for being who she always was. She won’t accept that, shouldn’t accept it, and will almost certainly kick up a fuss about it until her dying day. The role of a woman with her family, her home, her community, her society and her culture has dramatically changed over the last 40 years and Madonna will continue to play her role in that.

Just wait until the new era. I promise you every interview and review will comment on her age and where possible ask her how she feels about being in her 60s... and she will make her thoughts well known across multiple headlines. She is about to push the boundaries - in her own way - so let’s just see what happens.

[Artoo]

Both of you guys,Menime and beredy have pretty good points.
One thing I don't-and will never- understand is,why do ppl think Madonna should be releasing music like she used to do in the past?
It doent't matter the reason(s) ,she won't ever be like ahe used to.
Another thing, I find it funny how most of her fans say 'I know her chart days are behind now' but,the closer we get to a new release,hopes of to see it charting high or that she gets a new hit skyrockets.
I would be so cool for everyone to lower down expectations and to fully understand and accept the fact that something like that will,most likely,never happen again.
And quality of new material also =/= chart success.

Oh now this is a new can of worms

I don’t think anyone expects her to achieve another number one in a streaming era. I do think if we were still in the sales era that Madonna would continue to achieve hits - and maybe even #1 singles - and for the longest time I believe her fanbase thought Madonna would pave the way and open that door for older performers.

Let’s not forget that the oldest woman to achieve a #1 in both the U.K. and USA is Cher at 52, and Madonna last UK #1 was a few months before her 50th birthday - in the U.K. at least, it seemed like Madonna had it in the bag.

It’s never spoken of, but Madonna is also one of the rare few woman who have managed a #1 single over 40 in the US. In fact, Music was the last time a woman over 40 had a US solo #1 (Sia took Cheap Thrills to #1 in the US in 2016, but it also featured Sean Paul).

But 10 years ago the charts meant something. Sales were down but integrity was maintained. Streaming is something I adore but it’s just completely broken the charts: it increased the power of teenagers (who had most of it anyway) as they have the most disposable time to listen to music on repeat.

That said, if anyone could break through the streaming barrier I do think it will be Madonna. I’m not saying she will, but if anyone was going to I’d put my money on it being her. Madonna’s music hasn’t been at the usual level of standard since the introduction of streaming, so imo we don’t really know what will happen until she shocks us by releasing something up there with her best songs. We can guess nothing will happen, but we live in hope that Madonna will find a song that gives it a good go

After the Rebel Heart mess, I’ll just be happy with another #1 album.

[BodyShop]

^you just have to check the previous pages of this thread.
It's full of 'strategies' and when should she release the album and 'a top 5 will be a dissapointment' and 'she should do this' or 'she should do that'..
Every fan would LOVE to see her at the top once again which is different of setting a high bar that will only lead to frustration and disappointment.
The worst in all this, is that these same ppl get angry on her for not achieving what they thought she could/would had she done things in what they think would have been a better way.

[Artoo]

Re: Madonna

In everyone’s defence, Madonna’s releases have been handled poorly since she left Warner: she didn’t promote MDNA and RH leaked months beforehand. Even LFL was released in the U.K. 2 months after it was put on iTunes in the US... and then it was released mid-week with only 4 days of sales. So yeah... us fans might actually know better

[BodyShop]

Regardless of how bad things were handled, her hitmaker days are over.
Obvs no one can affirm she won't EVER have a new hit but,then again,in this day and age ,when even for current pop stars it is hard as hell to send a song to the top of the charts,imagine how hard it is for someone like Madonna.
Btw,I'm just sharing my thoughts on the matter because I do know the exact script once everything starts: madness all over the kingdom
Some things will NEVER change!

[Artoo]

Re: Madonna

I agree she won’t have another hit chart hit... but that doesn’t mean she can’t gave a hit - the two are both very different nowadays. But you can’t acknowledge that her releases have been poorly handled and then complain when fans discuss how best to handle a release