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  • Originally posted by InFamous View Post
    I have literally never heard a single person assume someone was gay because someone liked Madonna. That has to be the most delusional and incorrect statement I have ever read on UK MIX . Madonna transcended all sexes and orientations.
    I thought it depends where you live cause here in Brazil if a man says he's a Madonna fan (note :not if he likes a certain song,if he's a fan), it's almost like getting a gay certification lol
    Same goes for Gaga,Britney and so on.

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    • Originally posted by BodyShop View Post

      I thought it depends where you live cause here in Brazil if a man says he's a Madonna fan (note :not if he likes a certain song,if he's a fan), it's almost like getting a gay certification lol
      Same goes for Gaga,Britney and so on.
      Madonna has never been an artist that looked to gain a straight male audience (although she does have one) but she’s always targeted a female audience and attracted a gay audience along the way.

      Madonna’s catalogue is too big and too famous to not have straight male fans, but in my experience, they’re generally fans of her singles rather than digging deep into her albums and getting towards Stan levels.

      Straight white men rule everything around me

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      • Originally posted by menime123 View Post

        Madonna has never been an artist that looked to gain a straight male audience (although she does have one) but she’s always targeted a female audience and attracted a gay audience along the way.

        Madonna’s catalogue is too big and too famous to not have straight male fans, but in my experience, they’re generally fans of her singles rather than digging deep into her albums and getting towards Stan levels.
        But I'm not saying she doesn't have straight male fans. I'm saying that if you're a man and you say you're a Madonna fan,here in Brazil, ppl think you're gay.
        From my personal experience,when I attended her shows here, the audience was heavily made of gay men and lesbians (of all ages) + straight couples .
        Keep in mind that being a Latin country,Brazil has a very homophobic state of mind
        Just to give you an idea of what I'm talking about,in 2012 I was still closeted and asked my best friend (who was obvs straight ) to go with me to the MDNA Tour and he said "ok,but don't you dare telling anyone I went to a Madonna show with you" .
        Obvs things would be totally different with me nowadays but that's a whole other story.

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        • Originally posted by BodyShop View Post

          But I'm not saying she doesn't have straight male fans. I'm saying that if you're a man and you say you're a Madonna fan,here in Brazil, ppl think you're gay.
          From my personal experience,when I attended her shows here, the audience was heavily made of gay men and lesbians (of all ages) + straight couples .
          Keep in mind that being a Latin country,Brazil has a very homophobic state of mind
          Just to give you an idea of what I'm talking about,in 2012 I was still closeted and asked my best friend (who was obvs straight ) to go with me to the MDNA Tour and he said "ok,but don't you dare telling anyone I went to a Madonna show with you" .
          Obvs things would be totally different with me nowadays but that's a whole other story.
          I wasn’t disagreeing, just opening up the conversation

          I believe there is a correlation between music taste and sexuality (not exclusively, of course) and you seem to form attachments to music and artists that speak to who you are, potentially before you know who you are.

          Certainly my musical tastes point in one direction - Spice Girls, Girls Aloud, Madonna, Kylie, Britney, Christina, Steps - but people who don’t know that side of me often believe I’m straight until I tell them otherwise.

          As Madonna’s career developed I think her LGBTQ+ audience grew as others perhaps dropped off, and over the decades became a significant portion of her audience. We are perhaps the loyalist group of fans once we stan and I guess that has a lot to do with identity and the strength we gain from the music and person behind it, but I don’t know enough to really get into the hows and why’s of that.

          All I know is that when I was in my teens and I didn’t know a single other gay person, I found myself through Madonna. I imagine it’s similar for a lot of others, and other fan bases too (particularly Britney and Gaga).


          Straight white men rule everything around me

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          • Originally posted by BodyShop View Post

            I thought it depends where you live cause here in Brazil if a man says he's a Madonna fan (note :not if he likes a certain song,if he's a fan), it's almost like getting a gay certification lol
            Same goes for Gaga,Britney and so on.
            Maybe its just a regional thing then, certainly is not the case in Europe at all.
            " And i think you should take a second just to look at your reflection
            Baby maybe you're the problem "

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            • I’m not from Brazil but I’m from Latin America too and my experience has been identical to what BodyShop described.

              It literally means = Gay ... if you want to come out of the closet without saying the actual words just say you like Madonna (or nearly every diva) and you’ll achieve your purpose ... That’s how far it goes over here.

              There is a difference between having casual listeners and liking someone or being a fan though. While I have no doubts there are some male straight casual listeners that bop to certain Madonna songs from time to time I think her main audience of actual followers and fans are gays.

              I don’t even think it happens for homophobic reasons though. It’s just about a label that exists ... There’s more homophobia in Latin America than in Europe but I’d say there’s been LOTS of progress during the last years and the Homophobia isn’t nowhere close as big as it was 15 or 20 years ago over here ... so when people ask you if you are gay for liking Madonna most of them don’t even do it for a hateful or discriminatory reason .. it’s just a label and they are like .. why didn’t you tell you were gay bro? You can trust me .. blah blah
              Rock lives forever: Led Zeppelin . Metallica . Pink Floyd . Nirvana . Radiohead . Pearl Jam . Oasis . Iron Maiden . Nine Inch Nails
              Approved Popstars: Michael Jackson . Madonna . Britney Spears . Beyoncé . Rihanna

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              • Originally posted by menime123 View Post
                I believe there is a correlation between music taste and sexuality (not exclusively, of course) and you seem to form attachments to music and artists that speak to who you are, potentially before you know who you are.

                Certainly my musical tastes point in one direction - Spice Girls, Girls Aloud, Madonna, Kylie, Britney, Christina, Steps - but people who don’t know that side of me often believe I’m straight until I tell them otherwise.
                So how is the story in UK? ... is it similar to Latin America?

                How do people react over there when a guy says he’s into Madonna, Kylie, etc? Do people assume he might be gay or is it different there?
                Rock lives forever: Led Zeppelin . Metallica . Pink Floyd . Nirvana . Radiohead . Pearl Jam . Oasis . Iron Maiden . Nine Inch Nails
                Approved Popstars: Michael Jackson . Madonna . Britney Spears . Beyoncé . Rihanna

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                • Originally posted by MrLeonix View Post

                  So how is the story in UK? ... is it similar to Latin America?

                  How do people react over there when a guy says he’s into Madonna, Kylie, etc? Do people assume he might be gay or is it different there?
                  For Madonna, It’s probably a mix of the two - it’s not a guarantee, but it’s potentially a tick in the gay box if you’re trying to work someone out. I think it depends how deep into they are - if they only like the songs on Celebration and have never heard of Paradise or BDay Song the test is inconclusive

                  I’ve known a few straight guys into Madonna though - one was just a big fan of 80s music, whereas some of my male colleagues have made a point of telling me they like certain songs and they’re married with kids etc.

                  Then there was the time I met a straight guy at a Madonna concert and... well, he was certainly sticky and sweet by the end of the night

                  Kylie has no straight male fans. It’s physically impossible.
                  Straight white men rule everything around me

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                  • Originally posted by MrLeonix View Post
                    I’m not from Brazil but I’m from Latin America too and my experience has been identical to what BodyShop described.

                    It literally means = Gay ... if you want to come out of the closet without saying the actual words just say you like Madonna (or nearly every diva) and you’ll achieve your purpose ... That’s how far it goes over here.

                    There is a difference between having casual listeners and liking someone or being a fan though. While I have no doubts there are some male straight casual listeners that bop to certain Madonna songs from time to time I think her main audience of actual followers and fans are gays.

                    I don’t even think it happens for homophobic reasons though. It’s just about a label that exists ... There’s more homophobia in Latin America than in Europe but I’d say there’s been LOTS of progress during the last years and the Homophobia isn’t nowhere close as big as it was 15 or 20 years ago over here ... so when people ask you if you are gay for liking Madonna most of them don’t even do it for a hateful or discriminatory reason .. it’s just a label and they are like .. why didn’t you tell you were gay bro? You can trust me .. blah blah
                    I agree with everything except for the homophobia to an extent. Cause I think that when one tries to diminish you or ridicule you because of your taste being associated to homosexuality, that's also homophobia (not only when someone beats or kills another person due to their sexuality).
                    On my other post I gave an example of a dear friend of mine who was homophobic when he didn't even want to let other ppl know he attended a Madonna show for being afraid of being associated to gays in general.
                    Once,I said on a WhatsApp group chat (that group was of of ppl from high school) that I was listening to Confessions and 2 or 3 guys started making jokes implying I was a homosexual and yes,imo that's also called homophobia.
                    Anyway,that's another conversation but thing is although we have evolved a lot regarding gays rights and everything, Latin America in general is still one of the worst places regarding homophobia and people are really narrow minded even more so when compared to Europe. Actually, statistics show Brazil is one of the worst countries in the world when it comes to violence against LGBTQ+ ppl. Really sad...

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                    • Originally posted by BodyShop View Post

                      I agree with everything except for the homophobia to an extent. Cause I think that when one tries to diminish you or ridicule you because of your taste being associated to homosexuality, that's also homophobia (not only when someone beats or kills another person due to their sexuality).
                      On my other post I gave an example of a dear friend of mine who was homophobic when he didn't even want to let other ppl know he attended a Madonna show for being afraid of being associated to gays in general.
                      Once,I said on a WhatsApp group chat (that group was of of ppl from high school) that I was listening to Confessions and 2 or 3 guys started making jokes implying I was a homosexual and yes,imo that's also called homophobia.
                      Anyway,that's another conversation but thing is although we have evolved a lot regarding gays rights and everything, Latin America in general is still one of the worst places regarding homophobia and people are really narrow minded even more so when compared to Europe. Actually, statistics show Brazil is one of the worst countries in the world when it comes to violence against LGBTQ+ ppl. Really sad...
                      I also think it has to do with Brazil being one of the more advanced cases of Homophobia even compared to other Latin countries.

                      And I get what you mean. People making fun of you for listening to Madonna is wrong and it seems to be even worse than I imagine in Brazil.

                      While I have sensed people thinking that liking divas is gay I haven’t seen actual hardcore mocking for it. One particular example (of plenty I’ve witnessed): I remember one classmate in University and one day he was like: my favorite artist is Shakira (I honestly thought: could he be gay? But I didn’t say anything loud, yes it’s always strange to find a male to say his favorite artist is a female but kept my mouth shut, it didn’t matter to me) but one girl couldn’t resist and asked him .. so you’re gay? And he was like: why would I be gay? .. and the girl was like: well, you like Shakira (take into consideration that Shakira is one of the less gay female stars out there it’s not like she was Kylie or Cher but still it generated gay perception on the guy). And he laughed and said wtf? He even had a girlfriend pregnant at the time and the girl would still think he was gay just because his favorite artist was a female... (long story short, despite having a baby with his girlfriend the guy turned out to be gay years later, he’s not even bisexual now, he doesn’t date women at all anymore) ... but looking back, the girl wasn’t really making fun of him or mocking him, she wasn’t offensive either. She was just genuinely curious and simply wondered if he was gay .. but nothing negative came out of the conversation ... sometimes asking someone about their sexuality might result invasive for some people but it doesn’t necessarily mean the question was done with a bad intention or because the person has a problem with it.
                      Last edited by MrLeonix; Tue November 10, 2020, 17:20.
                      Rock lives forever: Led Zeppelin . Metallica . Pink Floyd . Nirvana . Radiohead . Pearl Jam . Oasis . Iron Maiden . Nine Inch Nails
                      Approved Popstars: Michael Jackson . Madonna . Britney Spears . Beyoncé . Rihanna

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                      • Well, I'm straight, from Latin America, and I consider my self a Madonna fan. I own LAP, TIC and AL in vinyl, and ROL and Music in CD (and I'm 99% sure I have a DVD somewhere) According to Spotify, she's my third most streamed artist every year, only after Travis and Weezer.
                        As such, I totally agree on that if you like Madonna, some people may think you may be gay, but I wouldn't go as far as to consider it as a direct association. At least in my case, I've never been asked even once if I'm gay when I say I like Madonna (and I wouldn't mind if they thought so)
                        The first time she performed in Chile, with the Sticky & Sweet tour, it was a national event. I went to the concert with some co-workers, and the husband of a female colleague also joined. None of us were hiding or ashamed, or anything.
                        Of course there were many gay men, but probably they meant less than 30% of the audience. And she performed two nights at a crowded stadium.
                        I guess everyone has different experiences, but I just wanted to say that in this matter, as in many, nothing is black or white.
                        (And this is probably my longest post ever )

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                        • ^ Both Chile and Argentina are the most progressive countries of Latin America though. In Argentina guys even kiss on the cheek as a greeting. But that’s not the case for most of Latin America

                          In terms of Homophobia now that I remember more carefully, I experienced a subconscious form of “social homophobia”. I once witnessed how an entire dance floor got completely empty in matter of seconds only because the DJ decided to play one Madonna song (it was “Hung Up”) and yes, it was a straight party. Guys refused to be seen dancing to a Madonna track, it was stupid and subconsciously homophobic-anxious behavior.

                          This happened back in late 2005 when “Hung Up” was quite new but already smashing and I actually posted about that experience here long time ago.
                          Rock lives forever: Led Zeppelin . Metallica . Pink Floyd . Nirvana . Radiohead . Pearl Jam . Oasis . Iron Maiden . Nine Inch Nails
                          Approved Popstars: Michael Jackson . Madonna . Britney Spears . Beyoncé . Rihanna

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                          • Originally posted by MrLeonix View Post

                            I also think it has to do with Brazil being one of the more advanced cases of Homophobia even compared to other Latin countries.

                            And I get what you mean. People making fun of you for listening to Madonna is wrong and it seems to be even worse than I imagine in Brazil.

                            While I have sensed people thinking that liking divas is gay I haven’t seen actual hardcore mocking for it. One particular example (of plenty I’ve witnessed): I remember one classmate in University and one day he was like: my favorite artist is Shakira (I honestly thought: could he be gay? But I didn’t say anything loud, yes it’s always strange to find a male to say his favorite artist is a female but kept my mouth shut, it didn’t matter to me) but one girl couldn’t resist and asked him .. so you’re gay? And he was like: why would I be gay? .. and the girl was like: well, you like Shakira (take into consideration that Shakira is one of the less gay female stars out there it’s not like she was Kylie or Cher but still it generated gay perception on tahe guy). And he laughed and said wtf? He even had a girlfriend pregnant at the time and the girl would still think he was gay just ct 3 his favorite artist was a female... (long story short, despite having a baby with his girlfriend the guy turned out to be gay years later, he’s not even bisexual now, he doesn’t date women at all anymore) ... but looking back, the girl wasn’t really making fun of him or mocking him, she wasn’t offensive either. She was just genuinely curious and simply wondered if he was gay .. but nothing negative came out of the conversation ... sometimes asking someone about their sexuality might result invasive for some people but it doesn’t necessarily mean the question was done with a bad intention or because the person has a problem with it.
                            I'm shocked that you basically described myself on your post
                            Funny story when I attended the MDNA Tour with that straight friend of mine,my (then) wife was pregnant of our second child. Well we were waiting in a huge line to go pee and I swear, basically all of the guys in front of us were gays. Then he said out of nothing in very loud voice "wow,I was thinking how crazy is that you'll be a dad for the second time within months" . As soon as he said that,the whole line turned around to see who was that.
                            Like "wow, there's a straight,married guy in this show". That is a scene that will never be erased from my mind lol I felt like I was in a zoo or something

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                            • So blessed to live in Europe. ​​​​​​​
                              Treated me kind, sweet destiny, carried me through desperation... Prayed through the nights, carried the weight on my own and now I know I've succeeded in finding the place I conceived... I had a Vision of Love

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                              • I would've never imagined myself saying this but i'm glad i'm living in Turkey
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                                • Personally I think the association of music taste and sexuality is insane. Like what is remotely gay about Shakiras music. She started off making rock music ..
                                  " And i think you should take a second just to look at your reflection
                                  Baby maybe you're the problem "

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                                  • Originally posted by pablob View Post
                                    Well, I'm straight, from Latin America, and I consider my self a Madonna fan. I own LAP, TIC and AL in vinyl, and ROL and Music in CD (and I'm 99% sure I have a DVD somewhere) According to Spotify, she's my third most streamed artist every year, only after Travis and Weezer.
                                    As such, I totally agree on that if you like Madonna, some people may think you may be gay, but I wouldn't go as far as to consider it as a direct association. At least in my case, I've never been asked even once if I'm gay when I say I like Madonna (and I wouldn't mind if they thought so)
                                    The first time she performed in Chile, with the Sticky & Sweet tour, it was a national event. I went to the concert with some co-workers, and the husband of a female colleague also joined. None of us were hiding or ashamed, or anything.
                                    Of course there were many gay men, but probably they meant less than 30% of the audience. And she performed two nights at a crowded stadium.
                                    I guess everyone has different experiences, but I just wanted to say that in this matter, as in many, nothing is black or white.

                                    (And this is probably my longest post ever )
                                    I think this is a very key point. The experiences of one of two people do not really mean that it was the same for everyone. It is impossible to generalize and make a definitive statement on something based on one or two experiences. I think it is pretty obvious that someone as big as Madonna had the support of both straight and gay fans. And both orientations attended her concerts.
                                    " And i think you should take a second just to look at your reflection
                                    Baby maybe you're the problem "

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                                    • Originally posted by InFamous View Post
                                      Personally I think the association of music taste and sexuality is insane. Like what is remotely gay about Shakiras music. She started off making rock music ..
                                      It's a real thing. You can't have not noticed that many gay men gravitate towards pop music, specifically pop music by female artists? It isn't a firm rule and doesn't apply to all female stars, but don't forget that Shakira is a crossover artist that made pop music for her English Language audience. Personally I wouldn't call Shakira a gay icon, but I do know she had a gay following - who else would like She Wolf?

                                      I'm not a sociologist but I do know it's a real link. Just like generations ago, before the explosion of music culture in the 1950s, many gay men were huge fans of certain actresses in much the same way - Judy Garland, for example. I know the belief is that gay men were drawn to tragic figures, but I don't believe that's true anymore - I think gay men have always been attracted to strong, independent women because ultimately, we're all fighting for a place in a world ran by straight men.
                                      Straight white men rule everything around me

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                                      • Originally posted by menime123 View Post

                                        It's a real thing. You can't have not noticed that many gay men gravitate towards pop music, specifically pop music by female artists? It isn't a firm rule and doesn't apply to all female stars, but don't forget that Shakira is a crossover artist that made pop music for her English Language audience. Personally I wouldn't call Shakira a gay icon, but I do know she had a gay following - who else would like She Wolf?

                                        I'm not a sociologist but I do know it's a real link. Just like generations ago, before the explosion of music culture in the 1950s, many gay men were huge fans of certain actresses in much the same way - Judy Garland, for example. I know the belief is that gay men were drawn to tragic figures, but I don't believe that's true anymore - I think gay men have always been attracted to strong, independent women because ultimately, we're all fighting for a place in a world ran by straight men.
                                        That is so true.
                                        Even as a teen I noticed how different I was from all the straight guys from my school,personal friends and even my brother. None of them used to listen to or like Madonna. But,back then - mid to late 90's - it was still cool to like her. But whenever someone asked you about your musical taste and you answered "Madonna" guys already act kinda surprised by your answer and a few eyebrows were already raised showing that was,at least, an unusual response lol.
                                        Nowadays it's a totally different situation. And I'm not only talking about Madonna here. If you say you're a Beyonce,Gaga,Britney, Miley,whatever fan you're automatically seen as gays. And I mean fan here,not casual listener.
                                        Gay clubs make thematic events using their image.
                                        Huge LGBTQ+ pride parades use their music and image .
                                        Gays make jokes saying they represent to us what soccer represent to straight men and that's why we're so passionate about them ,and so on.
                                        Again,does that mean straight guys don't like them? Ofc not! But it is REALLY hard for you to see a straight teen or young adult -especially here in Brazil- saying they're a big fan of Ariana Grande instead of being a hip hop or local act genre like pagode/funk fan .
                                        That's not something I "think' or a personal theory, it's a fact. Again,at least here in Brazil.

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                                        • Originally posted by menime123 View Post

                                          It's a real thing. You can't have not noticed that many gay men gravitate towards pop music, specifically pop music by female artists? It isn't a firm rule and doesn't apply to all female stars, but don't forget that Shakira is a crossover artist that made pop music for her English Language audience. Personally I wouldn't call Shakira a gay icon, but I do know she had a gay following - who else would like She Wolf?

                                          I'm not a sociologist but I do know it's a real link. Just like generations ago, before the explosion of music culture in the 1950s, many gay men were huge fans of certain actresses in much the same way - Judy Garland, for example. I know the belief is that gay men were drawn to tragic figures, but I don't believe that's true anymore - I think gay men have always been attracted to strong, independent women because ultimately, we're all fighting for a place in a world ran by straight men.
                                          In my case I just like the music I like because I like it and that's it. Maybe for others there is more to it than that but absolutely not for me. It has nothing to do with my sexuality.
                                          " And i think you should take a second just to look at your reflection
                                          Baby maybe you're the problem "

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                                          • My father listened to Madonna and Céline Dion while my brother is actually gay and doesn’t listen to any pop music. I always felt that people connecting LGBT people to pop music is so weird.
                                            Britney Spears • Janet Jackson • Christina Aguilera • Michael Jackson • Selena Gomez • Hilary Duff • Taylor Swift •

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                                            • Here in Manila, I have yet to meet a Madonna fan who is straight. During her Rebel Heart shows here ( two nights), there were straight-looking guys but almost all of them were accompanied by their girlfriends/wives (maybe they were "coerced" to the attend the concert?). And yes, one way to "out" a person here is to ask him if he likes Madonna, or for the young generation, Ariana or Blackpink (Kpop band).

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                                              • Originally posted by JeremySpears View Post
                                                My father listened to Madonna and Céline Dion while my brother is actually gay and doesn’t listen to any pop music. I always felt that people connecting LGBT people to pop music is so weird.
                                                Listening to music isn't an issue, as we've discussed above. It's when you get down to standom and knowing the deep cuts and unreleased, leak tracks etc, and the amount of loyality shown towards an artist.

                                                You're a Britney Stan - you must know what I'm talking about when I say a large portion of the LGBTQ+ community has an affinity with female pop stars. How many straight male Britney fans have you met that know everything about her and her discography? How many straight men do you think could name her Christmas song, tell you what album Dear Diary is from or go on an impassioned rampage as to why Radar is most definitely not a Circus track?

                                                My Dad has seen Madonna live and enjoyed it (granted, only because I wanted to go and was too young to go alone) and is a fan of Celine Dion. No one has tried to argue that you can't be straight and enjoy these artists - we're discussing something deeper than that. I'd also argue Celine isn't a gay icon, or at least not traditionally so (she was always adult contemporary anyway), but I'm not going down that road in a Madonna thread.

                                                I'm not saying sexuality is defined by music or that music itself defines a person's sexuality, but there is a correlation. There's no fixed formula or rule, but find me a straight man that stans the Spice Girls, follows Britney, has spent eight years waiting for Girls Aloud to come back, thinks Bionic is a masterpiece, has seen Madonna live over 10 times, is loving Kylie's Disco album, thinks Rachel Stevens should have released 10 #1 albums by now and cannot wait to hear Steps' new single on Friday?

                                                Respectfully, I'm 99.99% confident that no such straight man exists - yet this forum alone probably has quite a few LGBTQ+ that have just been described perfectly.







                                                Straight white men rule everything around me

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                                                • Originally posted by BodyShop View Post

                                                  Gays make jokes saying they represent to us what soccer represent to straight men and that's why we're so passionate about them ,and so on.
                                                  This is exactly me

                                                  People used to ask me why I'd spend so much money to travel and see Madonna live, and my response was always that people my own age do exactly the same with football. They buy season tickets that cost a fortune and travel in groups on buses to away matches, going all over the country... and if I liked football and did just that, no one would question me.

                                                  People also ask me why I've seen Madonna live so many times - completely oblivious to the fact she sings different songs every time (which frankly, I'd have thought was obvious). I tell them I save my money specifically in order to do so and not only is it something I enjoy, following Madonna and her career is a hobby.

                                                  But music has so much meaning for me. I mean I'm sat here working from home now and I'm onto my 4th Girls Aloud album of the day. The Spice Girls' greatest hits is next and I'll probably put Madame X on later when I paint (lockdown hobby)

                                                  Straight white men rule everything around me

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                                                  • I think Madonna had fans of all walks of life for huge periods of time (I'd say 1983-1991 and 1995-2002 as well as 2005-6 for sure). At those times she was pretty much adored by everyone. In times when she was generally hated (1992-1994 and 2003-2004 and 2008 mostly) yes it was mostly the gay fans that sticked around the longest. Since "MDNA" she is actively trying to appeal to what she considers her core audience (the dancing gay diva) and I think that is reflecting in her music and also, to a certain extent, diminish her legacy, as she is more than just a gay icon or a dance diva.
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