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  • She was not going to be played by radios, nor being streamed by the masses, so might as well do what she wants to do with the songs structure.
    5.05.2009 / 6.22.2011 / 4.24.2013 / 4.25.2013 / 3.1.2014 / 9.13.2014 / 7.21.2016 / 7.14.2018 / 7.15.2018

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    • I’m just happy she seemed so inspired again. MX was a fully realised concept and package from start to finish.

      Some of her latest eras felt abandoned and lack a visual direction. Though I’m saying that they still had a distinct look and energy that was then taken further by their respective tours.

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      • Say what you want about GGW but that look she had for the video and the tour with the hair bump was a slay.

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        • Originally posted by Angeman View Post
          Say what you want about GGW but that look she had for the video and the tour with the hair bump was a slay.
          Omg the late 60s vixen look is AMAZING. One of my fave M looks, for sure.
          A sure way to lose happiness, I found, is to want it at the expense of everything else. - Bette Davis

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          • Originally posted by KEY9481 View Post
            She was not going to be played by radios, nor being streamed by the masses, so might as well do what she wants to do with the songs structure.
            Absolutely, and it feels like with MX she really went with a more artistic carte blanche than before, not only with songs but with visuals too

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            • Originally posted by madfan13 View Post

              Omg the late 60s vixen look is AMAZING. One of my fave M looks, for sure.
              So glad it’s getting the recognition. Her entire face and body that your were incredible

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              • Keep it coming, I think I liked every comment on this page.

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                • Not to be superstitious but she should really avoid relationships — business, intimate or other — with individuals named Guy....

                  Seems like the two she had in her life were only after their own interests. But back to the discussion of how awesome MX was and how we can’t wait for the next era... oh, the latter was only voiced by me. But the Netflix special should be good; looking forward to the minute of Papa Don’t Preach; American Life; Frozen and some others.

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                  • Originally posted by Zeph View Post
                    Not to be superstitious but she should really avoid relationships — business, intimate or other — with individuals named Guy....

                    Seems like the two she had in her life were only after their own interests. But back to the discussion of how awesome MX was and how we can’t wait for the next era... oh, the latter was only voiced by me. But the Netflix special should be good; looking forward to the minute of Papa Don’t Preach; American Life; Frozen and some others.
                    I honestly don’t understand how or why fans blame Guy for Madonna’s failings. Madonna is 100% unmanageable. She has told us how Guy has asked her to do very basic, fundamental things (like getting her ass on stage on time and adding performing more hits) and how she deliberately chooses to ignores him.

                    If Madonna won’t do something so simple as getting on stage on time, what makes you think Guy has any power over Madonna or her career?

                    Theirs is not the standard pop star/manager relationship. Madonna doesn’t need a manager to make her famous or to come up with a business plan to get her to #1 - Madonna needs a manager that will arrange the business end of her own projects - essentially getting the finance to get them off the ground, arranging contracts and then project managing them for her.

                    Honestly, I don’t know how Guy puts up with her - it’s probably why he branched out and started managing other acts. I’m absolutely certain that Guy would love nothing more than to milk Madonna fans for every penny, with expanded albums, anniversary tours and making her promote the absolute earth out of each new studio album.

                    But Madonna won’t. I don’t know why, but she won’t. Even basic things like sorting out Spotify and YouTube - someone has to pay someone to sort it out. You just know Madonna said no a million times in the hope Warner would fund it.

                    Ultimately Madonna is the boss and is not open to what we might consider traditional management, when we think of the role of a manager. Honestly, I think she’s over it. I really do - things haven’t been well in her career for a long time now and I still find it highly unusual the biggest female selling artist in the world does not have a recording contract.

                    This biopic is either going to be a return to greatness or the start of a retirement plan. I honestly don’t know which at this point.
                    Words are useless, especially sentences.
                    they don’t stand for anything.
                    How could they explain how I feel?

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                    • Guy O focused on quick cash outs and contracts and with that came M’s decline in one way, Interscope failed to do anything for her; however Live Nation sustained and even expanded her tour domination.

                      So going by your train of thought, if Guy O gave up then should have found someone else. Freddy DeMann & Liz Rosenberg managed to manage her career. And while ageism plays a role, there were so many missed opportunities. Many, many of them of which Madonna, herself, is not to blame. That’s why she has a manager, an agent and a chef. You can’t blame the chef, now, can you?

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                      • Originally posted by Zeph View Post
                        Guy O focused on quick cash outs and contracts and with that came M’s decline in one way, Interscope failed to do anything for her; however Live Nation sustained and even expanded her tour domination.

                        So going by your train of thought, if Guy O gave up then should have found someone else. Freddy DeMann & Liz Rosenberg managed to manage her career. And while ageism plays a role, there were so many missed opportunities. Many, many of them of which Madonna, herself, is not to blame. That’s why she has a manager, an agent and a chef. You can’t blame the chef, now, can you?
                        Madonna’s 360 deal with Live Nation was a huge deal at the time - Guy secured Madonna a three album, four tour contract that would see her through her 50s into her 60s. It was a great deal worth $120 million that has generated over $1 Billion in revenue across the last decade.

                        What opportunities did Guy then miss? According to Madonna fans, the last four studio albums have been the worst of her career - is Guy responsible for Madonna making music her fans dislike?

                        Madonna refused to promote MDNA - Guy had to tell us to expect ‘non traditional promo’ because he knew Madonna wasn’t going to go on TV and promote the album. He knew she wasn’t going to perform any of it on TV and knew she would only commit to performing GMAYL as part of the Super Bowl.

                        Let’s not forget that under Warner, Madonna would do press junkets, TV performances, night club performances, magazine shoots, print interviews, chat shows etc. My favourite part of a Madonna promo cycle was always the mini gigs she has done since 2000 and have broadcast - be that online, on radio or TV.

                        You don’t go from having a perfect era like COADF to a crappy one like Madame X unless your hands are tied. Guy cannot force Madonna to do anything and it’s like Madonna has checked out - I really do think she redefined what his role as manager was once she left Warner.

                        Look at what Guy has done for U2 - he got Apple to buy their album, who gifted it to 500 million people, and spent $100 million on a promotional campaign. He then had them release an 4CD expanded version of The Joshua Tree to celebrate its 30th anniversary, and convinced them to tour the album in full.

                        Okay so the Apple thing backfired slightly, but it was an innovative idea. Almost every Madonna fan would wet themselves if Madonna had announced a Like a Prayer World Tour or The Immaculate Collection World Tour, celebrating their 30th anniversaries. So let’s not pretend Guy wouldn’t do the same for Madonna - she is 100% saying no to him.

                        Madonna is the boss. I honestly think there’s some sort of reverse sexism going on when fans blame Guy, like we expect a man to manage/control a woman. That’s absolutely not their relationship - Madonna is the only one in charge.
                        Words are useless, especially sentences.
                        they don’t stand for anything.
                        How could they explain how I feel?

                        Comment


                        • There is no reverse sexism being raised or harangued upon. We are identifying the potential failures of Guy Oseary as Madonna’s manager. Nothing more; nothing less.

                          While we may speculate she has turned down those ideas (if at all they were mentioned; we do remember Re-Invention Tour— so it’s not as if she’s adamantly against such ventures.

                          Let’s just say they are no longer the right fit for one another if Madonna’s goal is to return to the top of the charts even for a brief moment just to say I did it, again. But then again, her priorities are different and while her family comes first; however, a good manager (irregardless of whether they possess two X chromosomes or 1 X and 1 Y) would be able to make magic continue on an upward leap rather than the downward spiral she has been as of late. I am not a fan of MX; yes, it was an artistic effort but not a fan. Then again, I loved American Life when others didn’t. So Madonna is that artist. She needs the right team to spin her back into the mainstream.

                          The movie will truly decidedly tell whether she’s planning to carry on her legacy or begin something us, true fans, would resign to not even begin to fathom....

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Zeph View Post
                            There is no reverse sexism being raised or harangued upon. We are identifying the potential failures of Guy Oseary as Madonna’s manager. Nothing more; nothing less.

                            While we may speculate she has turned down those ideas (if at all they were mentioned; we do remember Re-Invention Tour— so it’s not as if she’s adamantly against such ventures.

                            Let’s just say they are no longer the right fit for one another if Madonna’s goal is to return to the top of the charts even for a brief moment just to say I did it, again. But then again, her priorities are different and while her family comes first; however, a good manager (irregardless of whether they possess two X chromosomes or 1 X and 1 Y) would be able to make magic continue on an upward leap rather than the downward spiral she has been as of late. I am not a fan of MX; yes, it was an artistic effort but not a fan. Then again, I loved American Life when others didn’t. So Madonna is that artist. She needs the right team to spin her back into the mainstream.

                            The movie will truly decidedly tell whether she’s planning to carry on her legacy or begin something us, true fans, would resign to not even begin to fathom....
                            I’m sorry, but you’re completely overlooking Madonna’s responsibility for her own career. The fact you talk about her being an artist then saying she requires ‘the right team to spin her’ is nothing more an a contradiction. How do you spin an artist that doesn’t want to be involved in the conversation?

                            It’s not like Madonna doesn’t have a platform - her music is being heard, people just don’t like it anymore. If Madonna doesn’t create music the world wants and refuses to promote the music she does make, that is not Guy’s failing. Just look at the entire approach to the Madame X album - we got more music videos than we did live performances.

                            Do you think Madonna suddenly had a bigger budget on Madame X to make five music videos? Of course not - Madonna made them because she wanted to make them.

                            Madame X genuinely caught her off guard and became an album she didn’t know she wanted to make. Madonna admits this and frankly, I think it’s because Madonna just isn’t interested in her career anymore.

                            You talk about Madonna and Guy not being the right fit, but honestly, the way I see it is Madonna is getting exactly what she asks for - do you honestly think she’d settle for anything less?

                            But point me towards a Madonna project where Madonna gave 100% and the project failed purely because of Guy’s incompetence and I’ll concede. I honestly don’t think such a project exists.
                            Words are useless, especially sentences.
                            they don’t stand for anything.
                            How could they explain how I feel?

                            Comment


                              • I’m sorry, but you’re completely overlooking Madonna’s responsibility for her own career. The fact you talk about her being an artist then saying she requires ‘the right team to spin her’ is nothing more an a contradiction. How do you spin an artist that doesn’t want to be involved in the conversation?
                              You are projecting your own opinion here that may or may not be fact. Madonna wanted a double album for Rebel Heart — it could’ve been her return (barring that dastardly first single). Guy and label said no... limit it to one. That’s one example out of many we know and don’t know about. Madonna has been pushing the envelope and paving the way for the artists of today. She endured all the backlash and hate and while some may say she thrived on it; she’s only human and it does take a toll. There is a price you pay for fame and she’s paid many lifetimes over and she should be held in a far higher regard by the GP than as what she is regarded as now...

                              That’s why you have good management. She once said she wanted the best..the best at the time was MJ so she wanted his manager, Freddy DeMann. Well if Guy can’t demonstrate how her career can rebound with a few simple tweaks and releases maybe she’s over his bs and it’s time for someone else. If it’s one thing it’s that Madonna is a brilliant businesswoman and she while she may be frugal she certainly ain’t stupid.

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                              • So Rebel Heart failed and it’s all Guy’s fault because Madonna was told she couldn’t release it as a double album?

                                Knowing Madonna, she probably wanted a double album to count as two albums on her contract. But honesty, if that’s his biggest failing as her manager, telling her not release a double album then you really need to review your position.

                                Madonna is unmanageable. She confirms she doesn’t listen to Guy. Madonna has no one to blame for her drop in popularity but herself.
                                Words are useless, especially sentences.
                                they don’t stand for anything.
                                How could they explain how I feel?

                                Comment


                                • I think menime123 is closer to the truth of the matter here, though I don't agree she's not interested in her career anymore (and potentially think you didn't really mean that)...she's doing what she wants to do and unfortunately that isn't what the general public seem to want from her. That's basically it...I loved Madame X and hope we get more of that in the future, just Madonna making the music she wants...

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                                  • That’s just one example; they are not a good match. He’s not managing her, she’s managing herself into a slump! It’s time to move on for her from him. We don’t know all the facts and all we have is assumptions and guesses. Only a fool or charlatan would portend to know what’s truly going on but one thing is sure... Guy O focus ain’t Madonna anymore. He’s given up! That means it’s time for her to regroup!

                                    Comment


                                    • Originally posted by Jimshakes View Post
                                      I think menime123 is closer to the truth of the matter here, though I don't agree she's not interested in her career anymore (and potentially think you didn't really mean that)...she's doing what she wants to do and unfortunately that isn't what the general public seem to want from her. That's basically it...I loved Madame X and hope we get more of that in the future, just Madonna making the music she wants...
                                      I sort of do and do not mean it in equal measures. I’ve seen Madonna fight for her career before - after American Life she did a greatest hits tour and came back with COADF - a advertised as an album ‘without messages’. Then she was everywhere promoting it.

                                      Even when she adopted David, the controversy around it made her go on a PR promotional tour to put the record straight - when has Madonna ever done anything like that?

                                      So I look at her efforts at promoting her last few albums I feel there’s a disengagement between Madonna and her music career. I genuinely do not believe she has given 100% for at least a decade and there was little to no action plan from Madonna, Warner nor Insterscope when streaming became the dominant method of consumption - and let’s not forget this is a woman who personally announced at an Apple Event that her catalogue was now available for download on iTunes.

                                      Madame X was a wonderful album and I couldn’t be happier with it, but Madonna has expressed her surprise at making it. She accidentally found a sound that interested her, and went on to do interviews where she claims she hadn’t been inspired for a number of albums beforehand.

                                      I don’t know, I just don’t see Madonna fighting her for place at the table anymore - instead it’s like she’s fallen into the trap of thinking she automatically has a place and doesn’t need to justify herself anymore. Which is true on some level, but it’s a currency that can run out - how many award shows are going to keep agreeing to let her perform new music that doesn’t chart, to a TV audience that isn’t her demographic?

                                      Obviously I find it hard to believe any of them would actually refuse her a performance slot, but I sort of wish they would as it might be the kick up the new ass she needs.

                                      I feel we are at a crossroads with Madonna. Part of me thinks she doesn’t want to continue making music - the lack of a record deal really worried me: if she wanted one she would have one, and the lack of a deal suggests to me she doesn’t want to be tied into anything long term again.

                                      Then there’s the biopic - I feel like Madonna is using it to relaunch her brand, but at the same time use it to prove to the world she can direct. If Madonna pulls it off and the industry agree she’s a talented director, that means Madonna is going to get offers and spend more time making movies rather than music (and we have seen her push her music career to one side on multiple occasions over the decades in the name of chasing Hollywood).

                                      I don’t know. Madonna might insist she isn’t a Material Girl but she has always been a Commercial Woman and chased the money. There’s no money in music anymore and she’s saturated her touring market. If Hollywood tell her they want her, she’s going to go running.
                                      Words are useless, especially sentences.
                                      they don’t stand for anything.
                                      How could they explain how I feel?

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Zeph View Post
                                        That’s just one example; they are not a good match. He’s not managing her, she’s managing herself into a slump! It’s time to move on for her from him. We don’t know all the facts and all we have is assumptions and guesses. Only a fool or charlatan would portend to know what’s truly going on but one thing is sure... Guy O focus ain’t Madonna anymore. He’s given up! That means it’s time for her to regroup!
                                        So if only a fool of charlatan would know what is truly going on... what does that make you? You’re the one saying they aren’t a good match anymore and he isn’t managing her - what qualifies you to make such bold statements without being a fool?
                                        Words are useless, especially sentences.
                                        they don’t stand for anything.
                                        How could they explain how I feel?

                                        Comment


                                        • Originally posted by menime123 View Post

                                          So if only a fool of charlatan would know what is truly going on... what does that make you? You’re the one saying they aren’t a good match anymore and he isn’t managing her - what qualifies you to make such bold statements without being a fool?
                                          I was actually referring to your inferences of what’s happening behind closed doors.

                                          To say that she needs a new manager is only a matter of fact considering her waning popularity and the GP’s disdain— accelerating disdain towards her.

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                                          • Originally posted by Zeph View Post

                                            I was actually referring to your inferences of what’s happening behind closed doors.

                                            To say that she needs a new manager is only a matter of fact considering her waning popularity and the GP’s disdain— accelerating disdain towards her.
                                            I know you were, but it makes you a hypocrite

                                            It isn’t a matter of fact and anyone who thinks it is is nothing but a fool and a charlatan for thinking they know more than they do.

                                            This is a discussion board where we can debate opinions and ideas. If you think Madonna needs a new manager than let’s discuss it, but let’s not treat it as fact without a need for explanation. I’ve replied a number of times trying to engage the conversation but you refuse to debate it - which is fine, you don’t have to debate it with me. But I’d have thought if you felt so passionately about it, you’d at least know why.
                                            Words are useless, especially sentences.
                                            they don’t stand for anything.
                                            How could they explain how I feel?

                                            Comment


                                            • The premise of your debates/argument is based on your opinion of how Madonna rather bow out of music while my argument is based strictly on numbers...her popularity has plunged. Streaming has definitely impacted legacy acts but her entire image is in dire need of a make-over something you, yourself, acknowledged Guy O has no control over. So let’s say we hypothetically take that as fact— the act, which in this case is Madonna, needs new management.

                                              I’m well aware this a debate board but I’m not about to beat a dead horse either. You can lead a horse to water but neither you nor I can make it drink it!

                                              Comment


                                              • Originally posted by Zeph View Post
                                                The premise of your debates/argument is based on your opinion of how Madonna rather bow out of music while my argument is based strictly on numbers...her popularity has plunged. Streaming has definitely impacted legacy acts but her entire image is in dire need of a make-over something you, yourself, acknowledged Guy O has no control over. So let’s say we hypothetically take that as fact— the act, which in this case is Madonna, needs new management.

                                                I’m well aware this a debate board but I’m not about to beat a dead horse either. You can lead a horse to water but neither you nor I can make it drink it!
                                                I honestly don’t think you understand - If you honestly think Madonna is suddenly going to start listening to a new manager then, so be it. Personally I think anyone demanding anything of Madonna is going to end up fired

                                                You should also be aware Madonna has more than one manager - she’d managed by both Guy Oseary and Sara Zambreno (as per her Madame X tour book) and both Guy and Sara will serve as exec producers on the biopic.
                                                Words are useless, especially sentences.
                                                they don’t stand for anything.
                                                How could they explain how I feel?

                                                Comment


                                                • Madonna doesn't need a new manager, she needs a drive to make music again. I do think she is unmanageable as well. Also, younger generations don't care about Madonna at all so whatever she does won't be a commercial success so i'd rather she makes the music she wants rather than trying to cater to younger listeners.
                                                  Cha Cha Instructor

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                                                  • In my eyes guy shiteary is the worst manager ever. He only cares and worries about his pocket full. Nothing else. He is a fool at home who does nothing but jumps around with his kids like a loser.
                                                    Madonna is the queen of pop and the biggest selling female music artist of all time!

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