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  • I think sometimes fans forget Madonna is first and foremost a dancer - she was never a trained musician doing it for the love of music, but someone looking for the right artistic outlet.

    She moved to NYC to become a dancer - she wasn’t seeking fame and fortune at that point, but for artistic merit.

    Then she found herself in a world sharing space and time (and occasionally her bed) with great NYC artists like Warhol and Basquiat and many others that never made it to the big time. This was all 1980 to 1985 and many of her friends and peers from that time were dead by 1990 but Madonna didn’t and what she learnt she still retained.

    I’m honestly think there’s a hypocrisy associated with calling Madonna out for calling herself an artist. She has always referred to herself as an artist rather than a pop star, and it occurs to me that no one had a problem with this previously when they were enjoying the output.

    I mean she called herself an artist and her Blond Ambition Tour art in 1990 when defending herself against The Pope and Vatican. Are we supposed to hate on BAT now too?
    Bleep Bloop Blop

    Comment


    • Originally posted by menime123 View Post

      I’m honestly think there’s a hypocrisy associated with calling Madonna out for calling herself an artist. She has always referred to herself as an artist rather than a pop star, and it occurs to me that no one had a problem with this previously when they were enjoying the output.

      I mean she called herself an artist and her Blond Ambition Tour art in 1990 when defending herself against The Pope and Vatican. Are we supposed to hate on BAT now too?
      Well that's exactly what I also said.

      What she's doing now,she's done since basically forever.

      But,nowadays,no matter what ,everything she says or does is wrong,including very typical Madonna things and that's why I've given up trying to explain some of those things.

      At the end of the day,Madonna is the most successful female artist ever and nothing will change that - I'm not only talking numbers here but impact,relevance,etc... so,why should I bother? Lol

      I'm all for debates and discussions and different opinions being shared, the only thing I think is pointless is to moan about everything ,everyday like... move on,she's over and can do no right anymore to some and that's also OK but why spend time repeating how stupid,pathetic,cringe ,etc she is on a daily basis?

      Even if I don't agree or like most of the current Madonna ,she's still doing whatever pleases her and will be like that till the very last day of her life so let it be...

      Comment


      • Happy Halloween!

        https://open.spotify.com/track/7mebl...urce=copy-link

        Comment


        • Originally posted by BodyShop View Post


          I'm all for debates and discussions and different opinions being shared, the only thing I think is pointless is to moan about everything ,everyday like... move on,she's over and can do no right anymore to some and that's also OK but why spend time repeating how stupid,pathetic,cringe ,etc she is on a daily basis?
          Totally agree. Some fans cling to the past, wanting Madonna to re-achieve her former glories but it will never happen and that’s a very bitter pill to swallow. You can’t recreate magic and the irony is Madonna never has - she has always moved onto something new and been brave enough to create something different to what her audience expected. Where the real magic happened was in her ability to consistently create something new that enough people liked over multiple albums and decades.

          It’s very, very rare in music and something she isn’t given enough credit for, but it’s rare because no one pushes themselves in the same way Madonna does. Most pop stars know their lane and stay in it. There are many acts that know what they’re good at and what their audience want and are happy to deliver it - but Madonna has never been that person.

          Previously, Madonna’s work was well received commercially but when this changed, so did part of her fan base. I don’t know why people get tied up charts, stats and sales, but it kills the arts when you judge the art based on how viable it was as a commercial product. To me they are both very separate things, but not everyone is an artist so not everyone knows how to evaluate and enjoy independent thought.

          I studied and trained in the arts at university and something I learnt was that there is always merit in anything creative. You don’t have to like everything about a piece of art, but not everything about is bad either. You should always judge a work on its own merits, free from preconceived notions and remember it doesn’t belong to you - so you don’t have to enjoy it, but that doesn’t mean there isn’t anything worthy of your respect.

          You take the positives and enjoy them. You don’t dwell on what you dislike and hate it for existing. It is a waste of time and a waste of energy and hate will only ever eat away at your soul. Art actually exists to enhance your soul and if your response to art is hatred and distain, those emotions were already within you - because art cannot teach you to be hateful.

          That is why I don’t believe anyone when they say they hate Madame X. It’s an album with eighteen different songs, exploring a huge amount of topics across a mammoth amount of genres for one album. There is literally something for everyone and whether you like it as a body of work or not, I don’t believe anyone cannot find something to enjoy within it.




          Bleep Bloop Blop

          Comment


          • I just don’t think that much about it but yeah I don’t feel comfortable with current Madonna either.

            It’s like she just turned into a worse version of herself (musically, image and fashion wise, artistically, quality wise, vocally, etc). And being honest, I haven’t fully or really enjoyed any musical project she’s done for over a decade now (basically since “Confessions”). I continue being a fan though because I just can’t overlook all the amazing things she did that I really admire, still to this day I feel like her run as a popstar and female artist is unmatched, unrivalled and unchallenged … but at the same time, yikes .. Little I knew back in 2005/2006 when I witnessed that epic “Confessions” era that it was going to be the last time I would like something from her.

            I didn’t like “Hard Candy”, sorry and cool if you do but it didn’t make it for me. Then, “MDNA” another low point and an album that does nothing for me, then “Rebel Heart” which being honest has some great songs here and there but some other songs not so much or at all and the whole project together just sounds like a mixtape with bad mastering, I don’t really care about “RH” anymore. And “Madame X”, I do think it was her best project since “Confessions” but only because her previous albums were so bad and plain that MX is only “better” in the sense that it’s the “least bad” out of her last 4 albums , that’s it. Compared to her great material “MX” is nothing.

            “Madame X” had potential, but I don’t know why they had to ruin every single song on that album with the extreme deformed, autotune, robotic overly processed vocals. Some fans would say “it’s just for production values, it’s part of the production” but I just don’t think it’s the case. I can understand that for some songs but not for every single one of them. It’s more like she can’t sing the way she used to and they have no more option to hide it with a bunch of autotuned and robotic vocals (from start to finish) that make no sense in half of the songs. She had vocal effects on several of her albums in the past but not on every single song of the album.

            the “Madame X” tour was the first time I legit didn’t care or wasn’t excited / or perhaps interested about one of her tours and that VMAs appearance she did this year .. I just tried to not comment that much about it but it was horrible (at least for me)… I’m just going to say that it proved further how her Instagram is a total lie and her looks in person are a complete different story. It’s kinda funny seeing some of her fans on her Insta saying “wow she looks so stunning and comparing pics from 30 years ago” and I’m like do they realize those pics she posts have like 35 filters, photoshop and are basically digital customs rather than actual pictures that indicate anything real?.

            But yeah, I don’t feel the need to be mad about it anymore because I also know that artists are not “cool” forever, I do think she will always be a legend but I also don’t feel current Madonna as the way I used to, up until 2005, or weirdy enough up until “Hard Candy” and despite the fact I didn’t like that album up until then I still sensed her as MADONNA that cool epic woman and artist, I don’t sense that anymore. I do consider Madonna as a true artist though and she always managed to stay true to herself and do everything she wanted (even today) and I applaud that. I just came to peace with my mind about the fact that Madonna is not “cool” anymore and that I’ll just focus on the great things she did and the cool eras she gave us during 80s, 90s and early 00s.
            Rock lives forever: Led Zeppelin . Metallica . Pink Floyd . Nirvana . Radiohead . Pearl Jam . Oasis . Iron Maiden . Nine Inch Nails
            Approved Popstars: Michael Jackson . Madonna . Britney Spears . Beyoncé . Rihanna

            Comment


            • Originally posted by MrLeonix View Post

              “Madame X” had potential, but I don’t know why they had to ruin every single song on that album with the extreme deformed, autotune, robotic overly processed vocals. Some fans would say “it’s just for production values, it’s part of the production” but I just don’t think it’s the case. I can understand that for some songs but not for every single one of them. It’s more like she can’t sing the way she used to and they have no more option to hide it with a bunch of autotuned and robotic vocals (from start to finish) that make no sense in half of the songs. She had vocal effects on several of her albums in the past but not on every single song of the album.

              I just came to peace with my mind about the fact that Madonna is not “cool” anymore
              Madonna has never really been ‘cool’ though. Debbie Harry was so effortlessly cool and frankly, the epitome of pop star coolness. Madonna has always been too calculated for that. She’s been popular but actually ‘cool’ might be really pushing it. Basically she’s still the straight A goofy school kid and I think that still shines through in her personality.

              As for MX I do think it’s all production choice. Every Madonna album has a different vocal production and I think it’s a stylistic choice - American Life, for example, was sung primarily in chest voice into a dry microphone yet Confessions was sung primarily in head voice and deliberately layered and treated and mixed like an instrument was - making her vocals sit in the mix rather than above it. It’s nothing new - even Nile pitched her vocals up to make her sound like Minnie Mouse on Like a Virgin.

              Madonna sounded absolutely fine in her recent mini gigs, if you accept she has always been a woman that opens her mouth and just hopes for best.
              Bleep Bloop Blop

              Comment


              • Originally posted by music126 View Post
                Yes how about we all just move on and stream Supernatural.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Angeman View Post

                  Yes how about we all just move on and stream Supernatural.
                  I’d rather listen to BDay Song.
                  Bleep Bloop Blop

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by menime123 View Post

                    Madonna has never really been ‘cool’ though. Debbie Harry was so effortlessly cool and frankly, the epitome of pop star coolness. Madonna has always been too calculated for that. She’s been popular but actually ‘cool’ might be really pushing it. Basically she’s still the straight A goofy school kid and I think that still shines through in her personality.

                    As for MX I do think it’s all production choice. Every Madonna album has a different vocal production and I think it’s a stylistic choice - American Life, for example, was sung primarily in chest voice into a dry microphone yet Confessions was sung primarily in head voice and deliberately layered and treated and mixed like an instrument was - making her vocals sit in the mix rather than above it. It’s nothing new - even Nile pitched her vocals up to make her sound like Minnie Mouse on Like a Virgin.

                    Madonna sounded absolutely fine in her recent mini gigs, if you accept she has always been a woman that opens her mouth and just hopes for best.
                    You said it was for the best to not reply to each other anymore so I don’t know why you are quoting me

                    …. And Madonna was always “cool” (except for the “Erotica” period) … You don’t get to become the most popular, radio played, best selling and highest female touring act of music history by being “uncool” … You don’t win like 20 VMAs (back when it was a cool popular show) and you don’t get widely accepted and consummed by masses, acclaimed in many occassions (“Like A Prayer”, “Ray Of Light”, “Music” or “Confessiosn”) influential to younger artists like Britney and Xtina by being “uncool” …. you won’t be able to do what no other female popstar has been able to do by being accepted in the rock club the minute she was inducted to the Rock Hall at the very first year of eligibility by being “uncool”.

                    Madonna was cool … did she have detractors, haters and critics? of course, like every other artist. But she was global, ruled and slayed like no other female artist in the music history and you need to be good and cool to be like that. She lost that edge and cool factor and the masses now. It’s ok.
                    Rock lives forever: Led Zeppelin . Metallica . Pink Floyd . Nirvana . Radiohead . Pearl Jam . Oasis . Iron Maiden . Nine Inch Nails
                    Approved Popstars: Michael Jackson . Madonna . Britney Spears . Beyoncé . Rihanna

                    Comment


                    • Ok, I still remember being a kid buying the cassette single of Cherish and finding Supernatural as a B side. Her brunette locks against the white background…

                      (I wasn’t that happy years later to discover the B side to Rain). But Supernatural was album worthy material.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Angeman View Post

                        Yes how about we all just move on and stream Supernatural.
                        Amen

                        it has become a nightmare over here lol

                        and all those who complain about the constant trolling and moaning are the ones ( mod included) who quote and feed the trolls and dramas

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by menime123 View Post

                          I’d rather listen to BDay Song.
                          You dont have to have the sound up. Just put it on the lowest setting.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by menime123 View Post
                            I think sometimes fans forget Madonna is first and foremost a dancer - she was never a trained musician doing it for the love of music, but someone looking for the right artistic outlet.

                            She moved to NYC to become a dancer - she wasn’t seeking fame and fortune at that point, but for artistic merit.

                            Then she found herself in a world sharing space and time (and occasionally her bed) with great NYC artists like Warhol and Basquiat and many others that never made it to the big time. This was all 1980 to 1985 and many of her friends and peers from that time were dead by 1990 but Madonna didn’t and what she learnt she still retained.

                            I’m honestly think there’s a hypocrisy associated with calling Madonna out for calling herself an artist. She has always referred to herself as an artist rather than a pop star, and it occurs to me that no one had a problem with this previously when they were enjoying the output.

                            I mean she called herself an artist and her Blond Ambition Tour art in 1990 when defending herself against The Pope and Vatican. Are we supposed to hate on BAT now too?
                            Totally agree. She called herself an artist since the 80s. She was a professionally ballet trained dancer back then and a foremost dancer at first. And an artist. Some trolls are even picking on her by calling herself an artist now? How pretentious of them. Know the history rather than spreading your blah blah to degrade her current moves.
                            if you are not comfortable with her in recent years, please go back to your room and do something productive for you to be less pressed rather than constantly doing blah blah about her recent moves which I ,for sure know, she doesn't give a **** about what they think. . She won't hold you back and lose a penny not seeing you from the peanut gallery.
                            Last edited by autumnwind; Sat October 30, 2021, 19:21.
                            Madonna is the queen of pop and the biggest selling female music artist of all time!

                            Comment


                            • What’s her greatest album track?

                              I think it might have to be Paradise or Future Lovers.
                              Bleep Bloop Blop

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Artoo View Post
                                What’s her greatest album track?

                                I think it might have to be Paradise or Future Lovers.
                                For me it’s “Mer Girl” (she’ll never go any further as an artist than that song IMO).

                                However she has so many brilliant album tracks: “Pray For Spanish Eyes”, “Sanctuary”, “Swim”, “Sky Fits Heaven”, “Time Stood Still”, “Impressive Instant”, “I Deserve It”, “X-Static Process”, “Let It Will Be”, “Isaac”, “Like Or Not”, etc, etc

                                Last edited by MrLeonix; Sat October 30, 2021, 21:20.
                                Rock lives forever: Led Zeppelin . Metallica . Pink Floyd . Nirvana . Radiohead . Pearl Jam . Oasis . Iron Maiden . Nine Inch Nails
                                Approved Popstars: Michael Jackson . Madonna . Britney Spears . Beyoncé . Rihanna

                                Comment


                                • ^^ Skin and Forbidden Love (COADF)

                                  Comment


                                  • I know that whatever she does it's not going to be great, or as MrLeonix said - not as good as COADF. It's not the point to go back and replicate the sound. Madonna's problem is and will be - making a song that's going to at least try to somewhat be a hit. Even if it's only among fans and in gay clubs - like Kylie is doing. BIM was probably her last charting song on BB Hot 100, and while it makes me sad, I'm willing to accept that.

                                    If her team was smart she would do something in lines of Elton John's "The Lockdown Sessions", but we all know that won't happen. Some great points were made in this discussion, like where we are age wise as her fans. I'm turning 34 in 6 months, and I became a fan when I was around 11-12, but I've been listening to M before that as well. I was super excited about "Music", I loved "American Life", "COADF" made me obsessed with her music, and I was satisfied with "Hard Candy". I remember liking it but not loving it. however, HC had some great tracks like "Beat Goes On", "Devil Wouldn't Recognize You" and even "Heartbeat" that could've served as singles. I wish she could release any of those today, they would still be moderate hits, compared to anything else she had released after. And I'm sad for underperformance of "Ghosttown", her only decent single since 2008. honestly.

                                    I wish she "gets her act together" and releases a decent mainstream album. If I had to choose I wish she releases "Hard Candy part 2", but I'm afraid she'll jump on the bandwagon (too little too late) and have BTS or something similar on her next LP. In that case I guess we'd have a song that would debut on most charts but crash and burn soon after. Also I have a feeling the part of fanbase would leave, instead of gaining new one. She would definitely be perceived as a "Crazy old lady desperate to have a hit".

                                    MX really had me scratching my head about what M considers as "artistic", since I believe she was trying to give that album a rather non-mainstream wanna be artistic aura. In my opinion she delivered a snooze fest. I liked "Faz Gostozo", and if you ask me - that song had some potential to chart. It's still super catchy, and I love the original by Blaya.

                                    The rest of MX... I'm scrolling down the tracklist. "Crazy" and "Crave" are cute and decent, but that's about it.

                                    I'm hoping for the best, but am prepared to be disappointed. And the scariest thing is that for the first time in her life, M looks like she has no idea where her musical career is going. I would assume that, since she is extremely smart, she sees where it ends (with some decency), but the reality could be far from that, and maybe she's just boosting her ego and vanity (I mean look at that V magazine photoshoot). 15th album in 2023 would be a decent time to close that chapter of her life and career and end on a high note.

                                    Comment


                                    • It's difficult to say what my favourite album track is. It could be Words, Forbidden love (Confessions), Spanish Lesson, Gang Bang or Holy Water.
                                      I am not trying to seduce you... Would you like me to seduce you? Is that what you're trying to tell me?

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by Artoo View Post
                                        What’s her greatest album track?

                                        I think it might have to be Paradise or Future Lovers.
                                        Paradise. She'll never top that masterpiece.
                                        When we lose what we love
                                        Don't think anything will ever taste the same
                                        When we lose what we love
                                        Don't think anything will ever feel as good again

                                        Comment


                                        • Till Death Do Us Part
                                          Blue hydrangea, cold cash divine. Cashmere, cologne and white sunshine.
                                          Red racing cars, sunset and vine. And we were young and pretty.

                                          Comment


                                          • Originally posted by NoAngel View Post

                                            Paradise. She'll never top that masterpiece.
                                            Totally agree along with a number of non singles on American Life (Easy Ride; Intervention; Mother and Father; X-Static Process)

                                            Voices
                                            Push

                                            Comment


                                            • Originally posted by Artoo View Post
                                              What’s her greatest album track?

                                              I think it might have to be Paradise or Future Lovers.
                                              My top 5 (chronological order)

                                              Till Death Do Us Part
                                              Gone
                                              Intervention
                                              Inside Out
                                              Come Alive

                                              Comment


                                              • Omg menime is now called Artoo ?
                                                That's so weird to me, will take me forever to get used

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by pablob View Post

                                                  My top 5 (chronological order)

                                                  Till Death Do Us Part
                                                  Gone
                                                  Intervention
                                                  Inside Out
                                                  Come Alive
                                                  I think my top ten would be:

                                                  Sky Fits Heaven
                                                  Impressive Instant
                                                  Paradise (Not For Me)
                                                  Easy Ride
                                                  Future Lovers
                                                  Like It Or Not
                                                  Heartbeat
                                                  Beautiful Killer
                                                  Devil Pray
                                                  Killers Who Are Partying

                                                  10 isn’t enough. It kills me to overlook songs like Sanctuary, Gone, X-Static Process, Batuka, Crazy and Come Alive.

                                                  Also I always forget Batuka wasn’t a single - it just got a video treatment.
                                                  Bleep Bloop Blop

                                                  Comment


                                                  • Originally posted by Artoo View Post
                                                    she hasn’t been relegated to doing the ‘Legend’ slots at festivals just yet.
                                                    The shade.

                                                    If you were talking about Kylie, there was nothing relegable about Glastonbury!

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