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  • Originally posted by Shortie
    I am with menime on this one. In order to suit up to the very nature of a university degree, a subject must be of paramount importance to an area of study. And Beyonce will probably be in 30 40 years eligible for something like that. Right now, she is a feminist just as any other feminist (in the sense that she doesn't have her very own agenda or statements, a personal philosophy about feminism, she just helps ideas already established to gain popularity), a Internet phenomenon (Single Ladies) and, indeed a consistent theme of marketing strategy. Apart from that, she is just another icon (charts, especially when it comes to random singles are not relevant - does anyone remember, I don't know, the number 1 single in USA in week 30, 2004? - maybe you happen to know the song but only it that songs happens to really be popular). As its the case with most, popularity and legacy are rarely defined by actual charts.

    I can see the point in her being a topic on a discussion on contemporary musical industry, but an entire course based solely on that. Give me a break.

    Finally. Someone with an objective opinion.
    Disco dancing with the lights down low…

    Comment


    • Originally posted by menime123
      Originally posted by Shortie
      I am with menime on this one. In order to suit up to the very nature of a university degree, a subject must be of paramount importance to an area of study. And Beyonce will probably be in 30 40 years eligible for something like that. Right now, she is a feminist just as any other feminist (in the sense that she doesn't have her very own agenda or statements, a personal philosophy about feminism, she just helps ideas already established to gain popularity), a Internet phenomenon (Single Ladies) and, indeed a consistent theme of marketing strategy. Apart from that, she is just another icon (charts, especially when it comes to random singles are not relevant - does anyone remember, I don't know, the number 1 single in USA in week 30, 2004? - maybe you happen to know the song but only it that songs happens to really be popular). As its the case with most, popularity and legacy are rarely defined by actual charts.

      I can see the point in her being a topic on a discussion on contemporary musical industry, but an entire course based solely on that. Give me a break.

      Finally. Someone with an objective opinion.

      We have all displayed objective opinions. Don't try that slant. Shortie agreed with you on the degree aspect, we are beyond that.
      "What goes around comes back around my baby"

      Comment


      • Originally posted by aaliyahman
        Originally posted by Shortie
        I am with menime on this one. In order to suit up to the very nature of a university degree, a subject must be of paramount importance to an area of study. And Beyonce will probably be in 30 40 years eligible for something like that. Right now, she is a feminist just as any other feminist (in the sense that she doesn't have her very own agenda or statements, a personal philosophy about feminism, she just helps ideas already established to gain popularity), a Internet phenomenon (Single Ladies) and, indeed a consistent theme of marketing strategy. Apart from that, she is just another icon (charts, especially when it comes to random singles are not relevant - does anyone remember, I don't know, the number 1 single in USA in week 30, 2004? - maybe you happen to know the song but only it that songs happens to really be popular). As its the case with most, popularity and legacy are rarely defined by actual charts.

        I can see the point in her being a topic on a discussion on contemporary musical industry, but an entire course based solely on that. Give me a break.
        I think this conversation has strayed a fair bit from the 'is it right to have a Beyonce course'. Beyonce is obviously being used to bring some sensationalism to what would be a pretty usual feminism in culture or society course. She's only being used as a nucleus to draw themes together, as most courses are.

        Menime, you are right, Miley Cyrus has been hugely influential. A negative influece. No one is denying that fact and this whole conversation does not have a set panethon on influence. All or none can be influential as we are all individual.

        Just tell me though, how are you defining, a 'shift in culture'. That isn't tangible whatsoever especially at the current time. It's something we can only really see in hindsight.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_bowie#Discography

        Where are the 14 years? David Bowie's fans are largely around his age (although my best friend from uni stans hard for him). He promoted his album, yes it was after a long time but the strategy was completely different and IMO should have had more impact. It didn't as his fans are largely not the itunes crowd. That's what makes Beyonce's strategy different. She hit the nail on the head and blew away the competitors and got her album almost forced on the 'best of' 2013.

        Have you read how many articles came out saying how Beyonce and her release 'changed the game'. Is that not a cultural shift? Is that not tangible because you can't see someone twerking or cutting their hair? I see Surfboart or Flawless T shirts on a daily on women and men. Is it because you don;t see them that it doesn't count?
        Firstly, we're not talking about a good or bad influence, as that is entirely subjective. But influence is influence, and Miley has it in bucket loads.

        Okay, 10 years, not 14. But what's 4 years between friends? The fact is it was released blind, without announcement. Maybe it didn't have the impact Beyonce did, but who's to say she, or someone in her team wasn't inspired by it? So the idea isn't new, and my point is Beyonce just isn't the first to release music in this way.

        Those articles calling it a game changer have by and large been proven wrong. No one else has followed up and 'pulled a Beyonce'. People have continued to release music as they did before. So if music is released hasn't changed and no one has done an unannounced release, HOW has she influenced the industry?

        I have also read articles (and comments on here) that have argued the label only agreed to it because they didn't know how to market the album in a traditional way - Beyonce was on tour and just not available for the promo circuit.

        A cultural shift however is not necessarily hindsight. Apple products are a fantastic example. When the iTunes Store arrived, the world sat up and took note, and the music industry changed. When the phone was released, the industry changed. When the iPad launched, a whole new market arrived. These products changed the world.

        Single Ladies started a dance craze. Psy started a dance craze. These weren't things that festered over a year, but became overnight sensations - something that entered culture.

        Look at the Duchess of Cornwall and Prince George - whenever they make a public appearance, people rush out to buy their outfits (there's a thousand articles online about it. That is influence, right there.

        Ever watched Friends? Millions of women wanted 'The Rachel'. Remember David Beckham's Mohican? A hell of a lot of people rushed out to get them.

        Ever taken a selfie? That's a shift in culture, right there.
        Disco dancing with the lights down low…

        Comment


        • Originally posted by aaliyahman
          Originally posted by menime123
          Originally posted by Shortie
          I am with menime on this one. In order to suit up to the very nature of a university degree, a subject must be of paramount importance to an area of study. And Beyonce will probably be in 30 40 years eligible for something like that. Right now, she is a feminist just as any other feminist (in the sense that she doesn't have her very own agenda or statements, a personal philosophy about feminism, she just helps ideas already established to gain popularity), a Internet phenomenon (Single Ladies) and, indeed a consistent theme of marketing strategy. Apart from that, she is just another icon (charts, especially when it comes to random singles are not relevant - does anyone remember, I don't know, the number 1 single in USA in week 30, 2004? - maybe you happen to know the song but only it that songs happens to really be popular). As its the case with most, popularity and legacy are rarely defined by actual charts.

          I can see the point in her being a topic on a discussion on contemporary musical industry, but an entire course based solely on that. Give me a break.

          Finally. Someone with an objective opinion.

          We have all displayed objective opinions. Don't try that slant. Shortie agreed with you on the degree aspect, we are beyond that.
          I actually think some have taken it as a personal insult, that I dare question Beyonce's output, and defended her without stopping to consider another opinion.
          Disco dancing with the lights down low…

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Rocksteady09
            It doesn't matter, your agenda has been revealed.

            Oh ok. Can you fill me in, you know, just so I'm being kept in the loop?

            I repeat - I'm a huge Beyonce fan.
            Disco dancing with the lights down low…

            Comment


            • The thing is you make zero sense and you want to be blind to the facts. **** haircuts and **** fashion, even though she had a huge impact on both of those areas, she is a singer. Beyoncé could walk on water and you'd say others did it first and better. Just move on.
              "King isn't overrated, your fave is just undertalented."

              Comment


              • Originally posted by hugo
                The thing is you make zero sense and you want to be blind to the facts. Just move on.
                Well that's me put in my place

                Like I've said, I'm a huge Beyonce fan, love most of her work and think she's the best performer of her generation. I love the woman, but the best way to look at it is what would have happened had she not been a part of the industry at all? Would the industry be what it is right now?
                Disco dancing with the lights down low…

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                • Menime, your bias towards Madonna is blinding you.

                  If I think there should be courses studying Beyoncé and her ass? Of course not. That's freaking ludicrous, a waste of money, time and neurons. Plain dumb, really. But so is a Madonna course or any other of its type.

                  The thing is, you can't deny Beyoncé's influence. That thing is a fact. Period.
                  She has a word in the dictionary. Someone give her name to a fly. She's set dance trends (Crazy In Love, Single Ladies..), fashion trends, music trends (check how many R&B chicks were marketed like her, such as Rihanna in her early steps). Her latest album was a social phenomenon spawning several expressions spread all around the social networks such as #iwokeuplikethis, #flawless, #surfboad...

                  Her impact is real. Is it a deep impact and has it spread global revolutions and sh-t? NO. Is it influence? Yes.
                  I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
                  I'm in the shadows in the corners of my room

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by hugo
                    The thing is you make zero sense and you want to be blind to the facts. **** haircuts and **** fashion, even though she had a huge impact on both of those areas, she is a singer. Beyoncé could walk on water and you'd say others did it first and better. Just move on.

                    Now there's no need for language. This isn't about Beyonce, but her contribution to culture, her influence and whether or not she's contributed enough to warrant a university course.
                    Disco dancing with the lights down low…

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by BLover
                      Menime, your bias towards Madonna is blinding you.

                      If I think there should be courses studying Beyoncé and her ass? Of course not. That's freaking ludicrous, a waste of money, time and neurons. Plain dumb, really. But so is a Madonna course or any other of its type.

                      But your love of a Beyonce is blinding you to an alternative opinion, and how that opinion exists. I'm not comparing Beyonce to Madonna, I'm not discussing Madonna, but you all keep throwing her in my face

                      The absolute irony is that I did culture at university, with a focus on music.

                      But being dismissive because you disagree isn't a discussion.
                      Disco dancing with the lights down low…

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by menime123
                        Originally posted by hugo
                        The thing is you make zero sense and you want to be blind to the facts. **** haircuts and **** fashion, even though she had a huge impact on both of those areas, she is a singer. Beyoncé could walk on water and you'd say others did it first and better. Just move on.

                        Now there's no need for language. This isn't about Beyonce, but her contribution to culture, her influence and whether or not she's contributed enough to warrant a university course.
                        If Rutgers University and The University of Victoria wanted to open a course about Beyoncé isn't it clear that they felt she has had enough influence?
                        "King isn't overrated, your fave is just undertalented."

                        Comment


                        • I thought it was a joke, is there really a course on Beyonce?
                          My tits are made of silicone, just like the Earth and sea...

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                          • Originally posted by hugo
                            Originally posted by menime123
                            Originally posted by hugo
                            The thing is you make zero sense and you want to be blind to the facts. **** haircuts and **** fashion, even though she had a huge impact on both of those areas, she is a singer. Beyoncé could walk on water and you'd say others did it first and better. Just move on.

                            Now there's no need for language. This isn't about Beyonce, but her contribution to culture, her influence and whether or not she's contributed enough to warrant a university course.
                            If Rutgers University and The University of Victoria wanted to open a course about Beyoncé isn't it clear that they felt she has had enough influence?

                            So because someone has decided that, I can't have an alternative opinion?

                            That all said, it'll be a culture course, presumably looking at how modern day women - like Beyonce - aren't as modern as they think, based on established theory from decades ago, and whether it not new theory is needed in order for feminism to continue.
                            Disco dancing with the lights down low…

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                            • Originally posted by CrazyCrazy
                              I thought it was a joke, is there really a course on Beyonce?
                              It's true
                              Disco dancing with the lights down low…

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                              • Originally posted by CrazyCrazy
                                I thought it was a joke, is there really a course on Beyonce?
                                Two actually.

                                As part of the Politicising Beyoncé course, students will learn about American race, gender and sexual politics. The class will include analysis of Beyoncé's videos and lyrics as well as readings from black feminists.
                                Obviously something like this would be unthinkable in Europe, but if people like Cyrus, Germanotta and Ciccone had courses about them in the US, why the hell shouldn't Beyoncé have one as well?
                                "King isn't overrated, your fave is just undertalented."

                                Comment


                                • Originally posted by menime123
                                  But being dismissive because you disagree isn't a discussion.
                                  That's interesting because that's exactly what you just did.
                                  I don't love Beyoncé. Maybe I did when I was a young teen with my hormones all over the place. But hell freaking no that's not love. I love my mom. I love my dad. I love my girl. I love my dogs. I love my cat. I love my friends.

                                  I have more things to worry about to be honest. But I do respect her immensely as an artist and she is the ONLY one out of all the popstars I respect. She's the only one with enough talent and intelligence to make me interested in her. But I do not approve everything she does and I don't like all her releases, tracks, performances, etc.

                                  Is her music the best in the game. Hell no. I rarely even play her tracks, at the moment.

                                  With all this said, I believe I'm unbiased enough to state a valid opinion, which yours is not, even if you do have some valid points and I do agree with some of them.

                                  Influence is not something subjective. The fact that we are spending our precious lives talking about her is influence.
                                  I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
                                  I'm in the shadows in the corners of my room

                                  Comment


                                  • Originally posted by hugo
                                    Originally posted by CrazyCrazy
                                    I thought it was a joke, is there really a course on Beyonce?
                                    Two actually.

                                    As part of the Politicising Beyoncé course, students will learn about American race, gender and sexual politics. The class will include analysis of Beyoncé's videos and lyrics as well as readings from black feminists.
                                    Obviously something like this would be unthinkable in Europe, but if people like Cyrus, Germanotta and Ciccone had courses about them in the US, why the hell shouldn't Beyoncé have one as well?
                                    Actually, I read an article once (in an academic journal) that compared Beyonce's Baby Boy video to Kylie's Can't Get You Out Of My Head, based upon their ethnicity, and whether both would have appeared as 'sexualised' had Beyonce been in Kylie's video and vice versa.
                                    Disco dancing with the lights down low…

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                                    • It's not like she asked to have a course about her, and if she knows about it she probably thinks it's stupid.

                                      The fact that she's a powerful African-American woman right at the top of her game, turning everything she touches to gold, certainly bothers a lot of people. And that is why she's also a political figure, you see in her in all these important evens with the Obamas.
                                      "King isn't overrated, your fave is just undertalented."

                                      Comment


                                      • Originally posted by hugo
                                        It's not like she asked to have a course about her, and if she knows about it she probably thinks it's stupid.

                                        The fact that she's a powerful African-American woman right at the top of her game, turning everything she touches to gold, certainly bothers a lot of people.
                                        I hope that's not directed at me. As I've said, I believe in feminism. And I'm speaking as a man

                                        On the whole though she has achieved immense success that was well deserved.
                                        Disco dancing with the lights down low…

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                                        • It's interesting though because they could have chosen many more influential people from the arts, current and past. Good for her I guess, still silly though.
                                          My tits are made of silicone, just like the Earth and sea...

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                                          • Originally posted by CrazyCrazy
                                            It's interesting though because they could have chosen many more influential people from the arts, current and past. Good for her I guess, still silly though.
                                            Don't mention Madonna, whatever you do
                                            Disco dancing with the lights down low…

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                                            • Ok, now you're just pressed lol.

                                              Originally posted by CrazyCrazy
                                              It's interesting though because they could have chosen many more influential people from the arts, current and past. Good for her I guess, still silly though.
                                              If you want to discuss current pop music, she's unavoidable.

                                              Having said that, Science >>>>> Humanities.
                                              "King isn't overrated, your fave is just undertalented."

                                              Comment


                                              • Originally posted by CrazyCrazy
                                                It's interesting though because they could have chosen many more influential people from the arts, current and past. Good for her I guess, still silly though.
                                                I mean, basing one course on one single music artist is dumb af. Even a Michael Jackson course sounds stupid.
                                                I am the maniac, I am the ghoul
                                                I'm in the shadows in the corners of my room

                                                Comment


                                                • Originally posted by BLover
                                                  Originally posted by CrazyCrazy
                                                  It's interesting though because they could have chosen many more influential people from the arts, current and past. Good for her I guess, still silly though.
                                                  I mean, basing one course on one single music artist is dumb af. Even a Michael Jackson course sounds stupid.
                                                  Exactly, what we should discuss instead is do these courses make any sense, not if Beyoncé deserves one.
                                                  "King isn't overrated, your fave is just undertalented."

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                                                  • ^ Agreed blover, "the arts" wasn't necessarily about someone in pop music at all.
                                                    My tits are made of silicone, just like the Earth and sea...

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