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  • #31
    Originally posted by Wayne
    Originally posted by Westen
    Streaming is the worst thing that ever happened to music.
    Piracy is the worst thing that ever happened to music, not streaming - piracy getting so big seemed to really speed up the need for digital platforms. And then by the time digital downloads had reached their apex, they were already out of date.

    Streaming is just the natural next step.

    In the same way that tape superseded vinyl, CD superseded tape, digital downloads superseded CD and streaming supersedes digital downloads.

    The cyclical nature of the music industry - consumption just changes.
    I disagree, but I think we come to the same conclusion - piracy is the best thing that happened in music imo. It demonstrated that people were not willing to pay the prices expected of them for access to music, and they took matters into their own hands.

    I think it’s incredible the industry didn’t see it coming though, and that it took a technology company (Apple) to reinvigorate the industry. Clearly people didn’t mind paying 79p - £1 for an individual song and having legal ownership of it. Yes, there were still people who thought ‘why pay for something I can still get for free’ but streaming I think has been the best way to convert those folk back to legal consumption of music.

    Streaming only works though because it’s reasonably priced. It is quite possibly the final format of music (where else can they take it?) but needs to retain its low cost pricing structure.

    I am surprised vinyl is making a comeback actually, but I think that’s more of a novelty thing (and an album cover always look much more amazing in a 12” sleeve).

    Streaming has its problems (stupid tags and charts still not getting it quite right) but it’s only become possible because of piracy imo. It’s certainly the best thing to happen to back catalogues - we always hear stories of people moaning (Taylor) about the low returns an act gets, but labels still must be making millions from streams of songs from yesteryear.

    I mean another MJ Greatest Hits album release is overkill at this point, but songs like Billie Jean and Thriller must make more money for labels through streaming than they would by issuing another physical Greatest Hits album.
    M08T10

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Wayne
      So, streaming ruined charts?
      I think so, particularly in the UK where I still don’t feel like they’ve got it right. That whole Ed Sheeran top 10 was a complete fiasco.

      I appreciate the charts - with its flaws - still reflects the most streamed and most purchased music, so technically the chart still identifies the most popular songs.

      But the streaming era changed the chart forever - I always loved the fact the UK’s chart only contained sales and nothing superfluous like radio plays and audiences etc.

      So in many ways, what really ruined the charts is shitty music these teenagers seem to love. I feel so sorry for them, not growing up with quality music like I did (Spice Girls, S Club and Steps, oh my).
      M08T10

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      • #33
        Re: iTunes to close in 2019

        Streaming has done more to destroy the integrity of music than anything else in recent memory.
        Originally posted by beredy
        When people see your post this is what they see:

        GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT GOAT.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by Wayne
          It certainly didn't ruin music, from a consumer's perspective - for less money than you've ever paid before, you have access to an insane amount of music.
          This.

          Streaming is the best thing that has happened to music.

          But

          Albums charts and Certifications are a joke now, because they're mixing things that shouldn't be mixed in the first place, bought music and streamed music.

          They only mixed the two because they didn't want to reform the BB200 and HOT 100 system, no wonder they're a freaking mess now.

          And don't even get me started on certifications, they have never been so useless.

          How I'd solve things

          HOT100 Streams + Airplay
          HOT100 Sales

          BB200 Combined Streams
          BB200 Sales

          And put them on an equal footing for as long as you're able to buy music.
          "King isn't overrated, your fave is just undertalented."

          Comment


          • #35
            At the end of the day, the regular listener doesn't care AT ALL about charts, it's all about the perceived impact of the music and the art.
            "King isn't overrated, your fave is just undertalented."

            Comment


            • #36
              It would be stupid to close it
              I am not trying to seduce you... Would you like me to seduce you? Is that what you're trying to tell me?

              Comment


              • #37
                I don't understand why they would close something that makes them money? Even if the profits are much smaller than they used to be they are still making a profit. What are the overheads for Apple in keeping the iTunes store online? :-?

                Either way, Amazon and Google will sweep up the current customers that still desire downloads if this does happen.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Re: iTunes to close in 2019

                  It would be a shame if it would close. Streaming still doesn't cover a lot of b-sides, remixes, other material etc. that in some cases iTunes offers, and if not, I just add them from rips of my own CD/vinyl collection.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by JakeP
                    Originally posted by Ink
                    I don’t know how it works I’m still old fashion person
                    I'm also old fashioned in this respect. I've still not switched to streaming and i much prefer to buy the songs i want to listen to. Maybe Apple should consider a free tier streaming service rather than just expecting everyone to pay £10 a month, especially those of us who aren't able to listen to music all day long.

                    So do I, I like to own my music rather than have to connect to wifi etc to 'stream'.
                    "What goes around comes back around my baby"

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Westen
                      Originally posted by Wayne
                      Originally posted by Westen
                      Streaming is the worst thing that ever happened to music.
                      Piracy is the worst thing that ever happened to music, not streaming - piracy getting so big seemed to really speed up the need for digital platforms. And then by the time digital downloads had reached their apex, they were already out of date.

                      Streaming is just the natural next step.

                      In the same way that tape superseded vinyl, CD superseded tape, digital downloads superseded CD and streaming supersedes digital downloads.

                      The cyclical nature of the music industry - consumption just changes.
                      I think it's quite opposite, streaming ruined albums, eras, singles.
                      There are so many one hit wonders getting hits now, albums can sell nothing and be platinum thanks to 1 single

                      It totally ruined perception of success and quality
                      I totally agree with you.
                      "What goes around comes back around my baby"

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Wayne
                        So, streaming ruined charts?

                        It certainly didn't ruin music, from a consumer's perspective - for less money than you've ever paid before, you have access to an insane amount of music.
                        Well it did ruin the charts in certain aspects. The following image is for the US.
                        When you buy a song, you mainly buy it once, especially online, so mainly when people download 10 songs from an album, they buy the album as a whole or the majority of the said album. While there is no limit when it comes to streaming, and it is not limited which song you streamed how many times. This means that certain acts could only sell like 7000 albums, but because of the Sales plus Streaming system, some acts could add a lot of album sales just on the back of one track.

                        You could say that in the past one hit wonders also sold albums on the back of one track. But streaming is a little trickier.

                        For example Shawn Mendes. He released his album Illuminate with the hits mercy and Threat You Better, nothing wrong with that. But then did something smart, he added a new song to the album ' There's Nothing Holding Me Back', new music mainly attracts more buyers. The song is not available on a physical edition so far. So people either buy the song separately or stream it. So that adds also to his SPS.

                        Fifth Harmony did the same recently by adding their current Pitbull collabo as bonustrack to their album on streaming.

                        It gives a very flawed picture, since technically artists could just add a new song every few months to their albums, because of hype get a lot of streams, and get extra certifications, while their album normally wouldn't sell much.

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                        • #42
                          Streaming ruined pop girls
                          Cha Cha Instructor

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Hugo
                            At the end of the day, the regular listener doesn't care AT ALL about charts, it's all about the perceived impact of the music and the art.

                            I disagree, it’s part of culture - particularly for teens - to know who is #1 each week. Being #1 is to be perceived as having a good song because it’s clearly connected with the public. I would argue everyone releasing new music would like to see it be #1 still, no matter how much of a realist they are.

                            In the US I don’t see the problem with streaming being included in the main chart - the US include airplay audiences which is a stupid idea anyway: being listened to doesn’t mean people like a certain song.

                            But in the UK we have always maintained a chart based on pure sales alone, and the result of including streaming means it has completely lost any sort of integrity as far as I’m concerned. The Official Chart Company are making it up as they go along, which is just ridiculous.
                            M08T10

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                            • #44
                              Originally posted by spiritboy
                              Streaming ruined pop girls

                              But a lack of good pop girls ruined pop :evil:
                              M08T10

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                              • #45
                                Originally posted by BehindBreakaway
                                I can't see it shutting down fully tbh
                                Me either, seems way too soon even though music sales are declining so fast...but not that fast I think
                                Follow Me On Instagram

                                The FIRST user to have a thread beat Mariah on the Ukmix Hot 100

                                #KING

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                                • #46
                                  Originally posted by menime123
                                  Originally posted by Hugo
                                  At the end of the day, the regular listener doesn't care AT ALL about charts, it's all about the perceived impact of the music and the art.

                                  I disagree, it’s part of culture - particularly for teens - to know who is #1 each week.
                                  Do you think it's still as big a deal as it was? I don't know whether teens really care anymore/the chart is on their radar. With so many charts floating around it's all a bit confusing anyway.

                                  I don't see why Apple would kill off a 2bn dollar business model... I still feel like there's a market for downloads despite the decline, there are still a lot of people who want to purchase music to keep.
                                  THRILLER’S SOUNDS OF THE 90s

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                                  • #47
                                    I'd say Spotify made the charts slower. It felt like a chore checking out the UK charts in 2016, it was just so slow. People who stream seem to latch onto their favourite songs and refuse to let go for months on end. The end result is songs like Shape of you sticking around and preventing newer music from getting its breakthrough.

                                    Two things to consider:

                                    1. The OCC who compile the charts resorting to introducing an acr rule in an attempt to quicken up the charts and make them appear fresher.

                                    2. The OCC upweight Thursday's streaming data because Spotify can't (???) report the data on time for when the new weekly charts are compiled. I find it hard to believe personally, but alas the OCC in effect make up 1 day of streaming data which is appalling. How can a chart be "accurate" when the OCC are pretty much guestimating the figures?

                                    I truly believe the UK charts are the most artificial they've ever been.

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                                    • #48
                                      Originally posted by Thriller
                                      Do you think it's still as big a deal as it was? I don't know whether teens really care anymore/the chart is on their radar.
                                      You're quite right Thriller, teens have no interest in the charts in the same way i was in the late 90s/early 00s. I loved shows like CD:UK that made the charts seem more like an event. There hasn't been any type of chart show to engage young teenagers. If anything, the closest i can think of was The x factor at its peak when tracks by Bruno Mars and Rihanna were performed by the likes of Matt Cardle and One Direction, and then the songs got a significant boost on iTunes.

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                                      • #49
                                        Originally posted by menime123
                                        Originally posted by spiritboy
                                        Streaming ruined pop girls

                                        But a lack of good pop girls ruined pop :evil:
                                        Top 22 of Billboard 200 Albums of the Year are albums by male artists. That's how bad the situation for pop girls.
                                        Cha Cha Instructor

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                                        • #50
                                          Originally posted by Thriller
                                          Originally posted by menime123
                                          Originally posted by Hugo
                                          At the end of the day, the regular listener doesn't care AT ALL about charts, it's all about the perceived impact of the music and the art.

                                          I disagree, it’s part of culture - particularly for teens - to know who is #1 each week.
                                          Do you think it's still as big a deal as it was? I don't know whether teens really care anymore/the chart is on their radar. With so many charts floating around it's all a bit confusing anyway.

                                          I don't see why Apple would kill off a 2bn dollar business model... I still feel like there's a market for downloads despite the decline, there are still a lot of people who want to purchase music to keep.
                                          For some who doesn't listen radio, they will make use of Spotify's top 50 tracks chart to checkout new music.

                                          Comment


                                          • #51
                                            Originally posted by JakeP
                                            Originally posted by Thriller
                                            Do you think it's still as big a deal as it was? I don't know whether teens really care anymore/the chart is on their radar.
                                            You're quite right Thriller, teens have no interest in the charts in the same way i was in the late 90s/early 00s. I loved shows like CD:UK that made the charts seem more like an event. There hasn't been any type of chart show to engage young teenagers. If anything, the closest i can think of was The x factor at its peak when tracks by Bruno Mars and Rihanna were performed by the likes of Matt Cardle and One Direction, and then the songs got a significant boost on iTunes.
                                            I do feel like the charts are referenced less and less these days, plus Radio 1 obviously shunted it into a shorter slot demeaning its value. Shows like Sounds Like Friday Night, launched as a new music show, don't even reference chart positions either.
                                            THRILLER’S SOUNDS OF THE 90s

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                                            • #52
                                              Originally posted by ferrero
                                              For some who doesn't listen radio, they will make use of Spotify's top 50 tracks chart to checkout new music.
                                              ...which ultimately means they're going to discover about 3 new songs a week. Gosh! What is the point? They won't even care for the new entries and just stick with the songs they already like, hence those songs keep getting streamed and 12 months later they finally drop out of the top 50. :evil:

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                                              • #53
                                                I feel like the 'problems' in this thread only matter to us chart stans.

                                                If Spotify listeners don't like the music on the Spotify Top 50 or Today's Top Hits then why should they listen to it? They obviously do ...

                                                Chart companies obviously can't get their charts right. Sure, Spotify could support more, but they're a business and well, they seem to have other priorities and of course have their own charts.

                                                Regarding Apple, is iTunes really making direct profits? And even if, I guess those are peanuts in contrast to iPhone profits. Apple is only investing in music because it makes them sell more hardware and collect more data etc.
                                                2019 Year End Charts: The 20/20 Experience

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                                                • #54
                                                  Originally posted by JakeP
                                                  Originally posted by ferrero
                                                  For some who doesn't listen radio, they will make use of Spotify's top 50 tracks chart to checkout new music.
                                                  ...which ultimately means they're going to discover about 3 new songs a week. Gosh! What is the point? They won't even care for the new entries and just stick with the songs they already like, hence those songs keep getting streamed and 12 months later they finally drop out of the top 50. :evil:
                                                  I dont think radio is any better in this sense as well..

                                                  Comment


                                                  • #55
                                                    Re: iTunes to close in 2019

                                                    They generate over $2b dollars annually for Apple. I doubt they’d give it up until such time that it’s revenue isn’t generating rating as much. I do however see Google Music taking over and an uptake in physical sales
                                                    | Ciara | Beyoncé | Janet | Toni | Kelly R | Leona | Tinashe | Whitney | Brandy | Monica | Tevin | Mariah | Britney | Tamia |

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                                                    • #56
                                                      Originally posted by ferrero
                                                      Originally posted by JakeP
                                                      Originally posted by ferrero
                                                      For some who doesn't listen radio, they will make use of Spotify's top 50 tracks chart to checkout new music.
                                                      ...which ultimately means they're going to discover about 3 new songs a week. Gosh! What is the point? They won't even care for the new entries and just stick with the songs they already like, hence those songs keep getting streamed and 12 months later they finally drop out of the top 50. :evil:
                                                      I dont think radio is any better in this sense as well..
                                                      BBC Radio stations have routinely 10-12 new playlisted songs every week at least, and they are much more alternative/indie than those tropical (in fact, rubbish) pop dominated playlists oriented these days.
                                                      Waffles are checked cookies

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                                                      • #57
                                                        I do not think it will be closed so soon, like mentioned in some posts above it brings a lot of money, people still buy singles digitally, not as much as they used to, though, not everything is on streaming, and some people like buying from iTunes but do not like to stream. Just like with CDs and vinyls, you can still buy both despite people's moving to digital and streaming. They may close it somewhere in the future, but I do not see it happen in 2019.
                                                        Whitney Houston

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                                                        • #58
                                                          Given how fast downloads are dropping and how streaming keeps booming, it wouldn't be surprising to see it close in 2019. It probably won't be profitable anymore at that point.

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                                                          • #59
                                                            Re: iTunes to close in 2019

                                                            Some people never got into purchasing songs, they never purchased albums or physical singles, at least in areas and countries in development Streaming has been the only saving grace. For $6.00 (that's the price for Premium Spotify / Deezer / Apple Music here in Central America) you access millions of songs, it does suck that not ALL of them are in there but most people don't care about that weird b-side from a 1999 Mandy Moore album for example. Streaming has revived the industry, and I was one of the people who used to hate it back in the day. Not anymore.

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                                                            • #60
                                                              Well I do hope not, I'm one of the old blokes who still uses it. If legal downloads cease, people who do not want to stream will just download from illegal sites instead.
                                                              My tits are made of silicone, just like the Earth and sea...

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