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143rd FSC (Apr. 2019) - Kópavogsbćr, Iceland (Niđurstöđur)

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  • #61
    I know what you mean but we do have a clear rule here which makes totally sense.
    We pick artists based on their origin/citzenship; not because of the language they chose to sing or which "cultural influence" their song/s has/have.

    We also had "Frei.wild" for Italy once. They are - with no doubt - an Italian band since they are from South Tirol (Südtirol), even though they basically just perform songs in German.

    Personally, I think we have to stick to this rule, otherwise it will become all messy or more restricted.
    I mean, Alvaro does have the German citzenship and currently lives in Berlin. I don't know what kind of language would prevent German citizens to represent Germany. - The only way is to come up with a rule stating that ONLY official language can be submitted but I'm pretty sure that 99% of ukmix wouldn't approve
    Mainshow Goes Diva: Kylie Minogue

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    • #62
      Voted - Good month, even though I do have a clear favourite this time, I have had a range of many entries I wanted to give points to!
      [MENTION=49569]cheapthrills[/MENTION] Have you received my points? Strangely, they don't appear in my inbox as sent message.
      Last edited by Mainshow; Fri April 19th, 2019, 10:01.
      Mainshow Goes Diva: Kylie Minogue

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      • #63
        [MENTION=49569]cheapthrills[/MENTION]
        Song summary table: The Chinese entry links to Norway's video!
        trebor's - 2016 in Country Music
        trebor's - 2015 in Country Music

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        • #64
          Originally posted by Mainshow View Post
          Have you received my points? Strangely, they don't appear in my inbox as sent message.
          Same.
          Summer top 10 - 31.07.2020.

          Comment


          • #65
            [MENTION=32891]Mainshow[/MENTION] [MENTION=64715]Top10[/MENTION] I have received your votes. I think there's a setting you need to select to preserve your sent messages.

            Thanks [MENTION=38400]trebor[/MENTION], and I'm glad you're back

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Mainshow View Post
              I know what you mean but we do have a clear rule here which makes totally sense.
              We pick artists based on their origin/citzenship; not because of the language they chose to sing or which "cultural influence" their song/s has/have.

              We also had "Frei.wild" for Italy once. They are - with no doubt - an Italian band since they are from South Tirol (Südtirol), even though they basically just perform songs in German.

              Personally, I think we have to stick to this rule, otherwise it will become all messy or more restricted.
              I mean, Alvaro does have the German citzenship and currently lives in Berlin. I don't know what kind of language would prevent German citizens to represent Germany. - The only way is to come up with a rule stating that ONLY official language can be submitted but I'm pretty sure that 99% of ukmix wouldn't approve
              It's amazing that we have a rule asking for citizenship lol... for how many artists can we really know what countries' citizenships they hold?
              Last edited by jio; Fri April 19th, 2019, 14:35.
              jio CHARTS NOW:10/8/2020:https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...0#post10445860

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              • #67
                Originally posted by Mainshow View Post
                I know what you mean but we do have a clear rule here which makes totally sense.
                We pick artists based on their origin/citzenship; not because of the language they chose to sing or which "cultural influence" their song/s has/have.

                We also had "Frei.wild" for Italy once. They are - with no doubt - an Italian band since they are from South Tirol (Südtirol), even though they basically just perform songs in German.

                Personally, I think we have to stick to this rule, otherwise it will become all messy or more restricted.
                I mean, Alvaro does have the German citzenship and currently lives in Berlin. I don't know what kind of language would prevent German citizens to represent Germany. - The only way is to come up with a rule stating that ONLY official language can be submitted but I'm pretty sure that 99% of ukmix wouldn't approve
                It's amazing that we have a rule asking for citizenship lol... for how many artists can we really know what countries' citizenships they hold?
                Last edited by jio; Fri April 19th, 2019, 14:35.
                jio CHARTS NOW:10/8/2020:https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...0#post10445860

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by jio View Post
                  It's amazing that we have a rule asking for citizenship lol... for how many artists can we really know what countries' citizenships they hold?
                  It would be a questionable rule if it only consisted of "asking for citizenship" but that's not the only criterion. It's more like an addition, a lift to the "origin" part of the same rule.

                  03. The artist you choose has either to be a citizen of the country they'll represent or to have been born there.
                  So your artist either has to be born in the country (origin) [which will be easy to look up or get to know] or, as an addition to expand that "limited" rule, the artist has to be a citizen of that country [which allows us to take artist for a country where they chose to live in/be part of that society/etc. There are many cases in which the artist's origin consists of more than on ethnicity or the artist just might be born in a different country, etc.].
                  Mainshow Goes Diva: Kylie Minogue

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                  • #69
                    I did check on Alvaro when Mainshow submitted it because Alvaro has been submitted for Spain in the past so I was confused. Everything checked out though.

                    Hysterical re: Tansike. I corrected it Funny that it fit alphabetically either way.

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                    • #70
                      I agree with HC55555 that I really enjoyed this month - it's one of the most diverse months we've had, and when i pared down my list, I had about fifteen songs to choose from. Probably on a different day the song would have been in a different order. There were three songs I already knew, which is unusual for me.

                      Also, nice catch for westhammer to get the US after the reservation ran out!

                      EDIT: With just five voters so far, every song has already received points.

                      Comment


                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Mainshow View Post
                        It would be a questionable rule if it only consisted of "asking for citizenship" but that's not the only criterion. It's more like an addition, a lift to the "origin" part of the same rule.



                        So your artist either has to be born in the country (origin) [which will be easy to look up or get to know] or, as an addition to expand that "limited" rule, the artist has to be a citizen of that country [which allows us to take artist for a country where they chose to live in/be part of that society/etc. There are many cases in which the artist's origin consists of more than on ethnicity or the artist just might be born in a different country, etc.].
                        When that rule was introduced it limited the scope a lot and unnecessarily. For example I was told once that I could not enter a Moroccan/French singer born and living in France (but holding regular concerts in Morocco) and singing in Arabic for Morocco (despite half the Moroccan show business being located in France anyway) unless I can prove that he still holds Moroccan citizenship (which of course I couldn't). When I protested that Arabic language and Moroccan origins make the song more Moroccan than French I was told that France is a multicultural society (as if I didn't know). It's unneeded stuff like that that always lead to arguments in this game (or at least it did so before). I don't mind you entering Alvaro with Germany since he has a link with that country. But citizenship is not the only way to prove such links.
                        jio CHARTS NOW:10/8/2020:https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...0#post10445860

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                        • #72
                          With that logic, I could present Shakira with Spain or Madonna with Portugal. But OK work.
                          Last edited by HC55555; Sat April 20th, 2019, 03:22.

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                          • #73
                            I promised myself to not ever get involve again when it comes to this contest rules but i can't help and feel like there is always double standards to this!!!

                            3 years ago I was denied having Dua Lipa presenting Kosovo, despite her having dual citizenship, both parents from Kosovo, herself she lived in Kosovo etc etc.

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by HC55555 View Post
                              With that logic, I could present Shakira with Spain or Madonna with Portugal. But OK work.
                              If Madonna's parents were Portugueese and she made a career recording Portugueese fado, why not?
                              jio CHARTS NOW:10/8/2020:https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...0#post10445860

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by jio View Post
                                If Madonna's parents were Portugueese and she made a career recording Portugueese fado, why not?
                                My point exactly. Álvaro Soler only has one German parent. He released Spanish albums and singles only. He's a superstar in Spain only. He appeared in at least 7 Spanish TV talent shows since 2013 and was nominated as Best Spanish Act in MTV's Europe Music Awards in 2016. His only connection to Germany is his citizenship, same as Shakira with Spain and Madonna with Portugal.

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                                • #76
                                  Originally posted by HC55555 View Post
                                  My point exactly. Álvaro Soler only has one German parent. He released Spanish albums and singles only. He's a superstar in Spain only. He appeared in at least 7 Spanish TV talent shows since 2013 and was nominated as Best Spanish Act in MTV's Europe Music Awards in 2016. His only connection to Germany is his citizenship, same as Shakira with Spain and Madonna with Portugal.
                                  Sorry but it's not true that his only link to Germany is his citizenship and his father being German:
                                  - he has a German last name
                                  - he visited a German school
                                  - he currently lives, resides and works in Berlin, the capital of Germany
                                  - he speaks German fluently
                                  - he has written songs in German for other German artists, e.g "Felsenfest" von Wolkenfrei https://youtu.be/G5U3UPUYrrM
                                  - he has appeared in several German TV shows as well, he will be part of "Sing meinen Song" (which is kinda huge here)
                                  - he has been part of the X Factor Jury in Italy (the fact of appearing in a show doesn't make you change your ethnicity/nationality)
                                  - even a lot of his Spanish songs have been produced and written in Germany; together with other German people like Alexander Zuckowski and Simon Triebel
                                  - his mother is actually Spanish-Belgian... So in the end, Alvaro Soler is "more German" than Spanish

                                  You are free to feel Alvaro is more of a Spanish act due to him singing in Spanish and his music sounding Spanish-influenced but he's celary both - Spanish and German - and there's more than just his nationality which make him connected to Germany.

                                  Plus, we have rules here and they state that either the singer's origin or his/her nationality decides which country they can represent.
                                  Last edited by Mainshow; Sat April 20th, 2019, 19:10.
                                  Mainshow Goes Diva: Kylie Minogue

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                                  • #77
                                    Clearly the problem here is philosophical... basically on the way you guys define culture and ethnicity.
                                    jio CHARTS NOW:10/8/2020:https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...0#post10445860

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                                    • #78
                                      Originally posted by jio View Post
                                      Clearly the problem here is philosophical... basically on the way you guys define culture and ethnicity.
                                      That might be true but that's why it's important that this game has some kind of rules and Alvaro is basically the best example of someone having two ethnicities, nationalities, cultures and it's not uncommon for Europeans to have dual citizenships.
                                      Part of my family has been affected by dual citizenships, so it's really not a big deal and it's just natural to me that a person can have more than one ethnicity or nationality.
                                      Mainshow Goes Diva: Kylie Minogue

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                                      • #79
                                        I’m pretty sure my first ever entry in Feb 2016 was an example of this, Miss Platnum was born in Romania (German Father) but lives and works in Germany IIRC... I entered her for Germany. No need to look beyond citizenship in this case.

                                        It would possibly need to be a case-by-case thing if it were anything else, For example the Madonna scenario, If she were a Nelly Furtado style artist with a few Portuguese language hits despite never going back and living in her heritage country, then we might have a case.

                                        Alvaro sounds like the same deal as Miss Platnum, He has German citizenship = Eligible for Germany. Theres a few other countries with an interesting diasporic relationship too - I was looking around a while back to possibly entering an Artist from Suriname - there's a strong link with a lot of artists coming from/to The Netherlands from that country due to it being a former constituent country of The Kingdom of The Netherlands.

                                        Sounds like this will be the Referendum poll subject for this month Haha.
                                        Last edited by Affillate; Sun April 21st, 2019, 02:36.
                                        UKMIXtapes Vol.3 | ROUND 9!

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                                        • #80
                                          Pls no referendum poll. It shouldn't be limited any further.
                                          It would only make sense to maybe extend it, like allowing ethnicity (apart from citizenship and origin).
                                          Mainshow Goes Diva: Kylie Minogue

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                                          • #81
                                            We should expand it. And we should replace citizenship with something else. Citizenship refers to a legal act which is protected personal data (actually I am a bit perplexed as to how that word ended up in our rules). I don't know how can you guys prove it for most artists anyway... Unless you guys meant or understood "residence" instead of "citizenship"...
                                            Last edited by jio; Sun April 21st, 2019, 09:01.
                                            jio CHARTS NOW:10/8/2020:https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...0#post10445860

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                                            • #82
                                              Originally posted by Mainshow View Post
                                              That might be true but that's why it's important that this game has some kind of rules and Alvaro is basically the best example of someone having two ethnicities, nationalities, cultures and it's not uncommon for Europeans to have dual citizenships.
                                              Part of my family has been affected by dual citizenships, so it's really not a big deal and it's just natural to me that a person can have more than one ethnicity or nationality.
                                              I was referring as to how culture (and by extention "ownership" of something) is understood in the "west" and in the "east". Our rules seem to reflect only the more "European" view of things which is a shame really.
                                              jio CHARTS NOW:10/8/2020:https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...0#post10445860

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                                              • #83
                                                I don't really think it's an West vs East issue.

                                                I mean, the rules we have at the moment aren't as narrow as the proposed "only origin" taking into account.

                                                In a few cases, citizenship can be proven online, in many cases we clearly don't know an artist's passport, that's right but tbh, I think that it shouldn't get expunged from our rules. Maybe, we should include "ethnicity" as well, so that cases like your Moroccon artist would be allowed for Morocco (despite the fact he was born in France and got the French citizenship).
                                                Only parents should be taken into account, though, otherwise it will get out of hand and one can submit Britney Spears for the UK because her grandmother was British, etc.
                                                But we should keep in mind that such a rule would be less narrow than the rules we already have and since I had to kinda justify my entry (even though it's 100% eligible and valid), I don't think that most players would be keen on that "ethnicity concept".
                                                Mainshow Goes Diva: Kylie Minogue

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                                                • #84
                                                  So can you prove Alvaro Soler's citizenship then?
                                                  jio CHARTS NOW:10/8/2020:https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...0#post10445860

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                                                  • #85
                                                    Originally posted by jio View Post
                                                    So can you prove Alvaro Soler's citizenship then?
                                                    Look "Staatsangehörigkeit" (citizenship. It says Spain and Federal Republic of Germany)
                                                    https://web.de/magazine/unterhaltung/thema/alvaro-soler

                                                    Web.de is quite a serious source. Of course, I haven't seen any of his passports and can only rely on online sources.
                                                    Mainshow Goes Diva: Kylie Minogue

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                                                    • #86
                                                      OK but my point remains. That's not an easy to find info so it shouldn't be in our rules anyway.
                                                      jio CHARTS NOW:10/8/2020:https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...0#post10445860

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                                                      • #87
                                                        Originally posted by jio View Post
                                                        OK but my point remains. That's not an easy to find info so it shouldn't be in our rules anyway.
                                                        I agree, it's quite difficult to find such information. I guess, we really should expand the rule and add "ethnicity" to it if most of us agree on this.
                                                        Even though I'm a citizen of Germany and even though my passport is German, I still have been called "Polish" by former class mates, etc, since my mother and her family are from Poland. It's still part of who you are and how people perceive you.
                                                        I mean, Dua Lipa is way too famous right now, but in general, there shouldn't be a problem to take her for Kosovo.
                                                        Mainshow Goes Diva: Kylie Minogue

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                                                        • #88
                                                          So far, I'm not planning on doing a poll on this topic, particularly since the subject that kicked off the discussion is a valid entry for Germany. There's not even any coloring outside the lines there. I understand questioning the entry, but Mainshow has capably defended it, and that should be enough. I don't believe it necessitates a rule change, but am open to hearing from other people if they believe it does.

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                                                          • #89
                                                            I agree in this case without delving into it too much we can see a clear link , and in my example, just based it on wikipedia - Says she's a Romanian/German singer, there you go (without proving citizenship any further through websites/passports and whatnot which OTOH is a bit overkill)

                                                            As I mentioned its only an issue where we cant see a clear link that implies citizenship (i.e the immediate familial heritage to the countries culture and music) that would require approval/vote from other contestants.
                                                            UKMIXtapes Vol.3 | ROUND 9!

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                                                            • #90
                                                              Originally posted by Affillate View Post
                                                              I agree in this case without delving into it too much we can see a clear link , and in my example, just based it on wikipedia - Says she's a Romanian/German singer, there you go (without proving citizenship any further through websites/passports and whatnot which OTOH is a bit overkill)

                                                              As I mentioned its only an issue where we cant see a clear link that implies citizenship (i.e the immediate familial heritage to the countries culture and music) that would require approval/vote from other contestants.
                                                              I totally agree with that. However that is not what the current rule is saying. Trust me I asked about it and I was said flatly that I need to prove citizenship even though wikipedia was saying French-Moroccan lol.

                                                              Anyway enough with this.
                                                              jio CHARTS NOW:10/8/2020:https://www.ukmix.org/forum/chart-di...0#post10445860

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