Are black artists OVERrepresented at the Grammys?

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Postby clh_hilary » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:32 pm

heppolo wrote:
clh_hilary wrote:
heppolo wrote:Specifically for Native American music which is underrepresented in the mainstream.
Tuvan throat singers winning AOTY would also be so fine. And their music is pure ethereal, otherwordly quality.
As always, I am against anything mainstream. The more unknown the better.
The Grammys aren't the Oscars. The awards mostly confirm, rather than confer, status.
Oscars are also mellow and mainstream, no Cape Verde movies regularly winning so far.
Well then we can only say all these mainstream award shows are tiled towards the mainstream and thus one cannot expect anything else.
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Postby cheapthrills » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:34 pm

clh_hilary wrote:
cheapthrills wrote:I was responding to your argument about country music being too specified to garner general support. Those all have won since Outkast won an album award. But you are not addressing my point. With the possible exception of Outkast (who had more of a rap-sing combination), none of the black artists you cite are rap artists - a genre that has had mainstream support in the form of dollars and listeners for about four decades now.
If race is actually the issue, Eminem would've won AOTY already.

Taylor Swift was already clearly pop with Fearless, and the Dixie Chicks only won anything because of political reasons - they failed to win when they were selling millions. So at most you can only say Lady A, who was not only poppy, but with one of their lead vocalists being a failed pop singer.
I am not playing the qualify game with you - country stations played those artists' music; they appeared on the country charts; they were nominated in country categories - and that is enough for me.

It is interesting that you cite how the Dixie Chicks won as a political statement, yet I can't think of any black artist, many of who have made powerful political statements with their music, especially in rap, that has done the same in the general categories.
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Postby clh_hilary » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:39 pm

cheapthrills wrote:I am not playing the qualify game with you - country stations played those artists' music; they appeared on the country charts; they were nominated in country categories - and that is enough for me.

It is interesting that you cite how the Dixie Chicks won as a political statement, yet I can't think of any black artist, many of who have made powerful political statements with their music, especially in rap, that has done the same in the general categories.
The Dixie Chicks weren't on the country charts or played by country radio at that point. You can say people care about white political drama more than they care about black politics. And that is normal in a white-majority country. But there is absolutely no other way to see their win but as a political choice, or they would've won when their sales were much, much higher with better critical acclaim.

Lady A didn't win AOTY. If you have to count Swift, then it's 1 vs 1.
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Postby NothingFails » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:40 pm

cheapthrills wrote:
clh_hilary wrote:
cheapthrills wrote:I was responding to your argument about country music being too specified to garner general support. Those all have won since Outkast won an album award. But you are not addressing my point. With the possible exception of Outkast (who had more of a rap-sing combination), none of the black artists you cite are rap artists - a genre that has had mainstream support in the form of dollars and listeners for about four decades now.
If race is actually the issue, Eminem would've won AOTY already.

Taylor Swift was already clearly pop with Fearless, and the Dixie Chicks only won anything because of political reasons - they failed to win when they were selling millions. So at most you can only say Lady A, who was not only poppy, but with one of their lead vocalists being a failed pop singer.
I am not playing the qualify game with you - country stations played those artists' music; they appeared on the country charts; they were nominated in country categories - and that is enough for me.

It is interesting that you cite how the Dixie Chicks won as a political statement, yet I can't think of any black artist, many of who have made powerful political statements with their music, especially in rap, that has done the same in the general categories.
Yea, it is a double standard that the Dixie Chicks won for being "you know, we f**king hate Bush and not apologizing" but yet Fox News viewers lose their ish over "Formation" (because god forbid people were shocked to discover that Beyonce is proud to be a black woman) or "Alright" (since Kendrick said the line about hating cops for wanting to shoot black people for no reason, even though most sane people think a good section of cops are out of line) and they forfeit and lose to safer artists that don't offend your Trumpflakes who don't like it when a woman, gay person, black person or someone of a different ethnicity dare have an opinion.
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Postby cheapthrills » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:46 pm

clh_hilary wrote:
cheapthrills wrote:Lady A didn't win AOTY. If you have to count Swift, then it's 1 vs 1.
I was talking all the general categories.
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Postby clh_hilary » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:49 pm

NothingFails wrote:Yea, it is a double standard that the Dixie Chicks won for being "you know, we f**king hate Bush and not apologizing" but yet Fox News viewers lose their ish over "Formation" (because god forbid people were shocked to discover that Beyonce is proud to be a black woman) or "Alright" (since Kendrick said the line about hating cops for wanting to shoot black people for no reason, even though most sane people think a good section of cops are out of line) and they forfeit and lose to safer artists that don't offend your Trumpflakes who don't like it when a woman, gay person, black person or someone of a different ethnicity dare have an opinion.
The reaction towards the Dixie Chicks was a lot more extreme, there's no double standard to that. It literally ended their career and they were the biggest-selling country group of all-time.
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Postby clh_hilary » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:51 pm

cheapthrills wrote:I was talking all the general categories.
Isn't it interesting how when you narrow it down the genre, you can see that black people do win, just not necessarily with a rap album; and that the biggest-selling artist of the last decade, who's a white rapper, didn't win?

Is that a race thing or is that a genre thing?
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Postby cheapthrills » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:02 am

clh_hilary wrote:
cheapthrills wrote:I was talking all the general categories.
Isn't it interesting how when you narrow it down the genre, you can see that black people do win, just not necessarily with a rap album; and that the biggest-selling artist of the last decade, who's a white rapper, didn't win?

Is that a race thing or is that a genre thing?
It's probably a bit of both. I think voters tend to go with what is safe, which is why you might have a Norah or a Herbie or a Luther. I think voters find rap intimidating precisely because it can be so political. Or they just want to lump it all as one dumpster fire of a genre because they don't take the time to appreciate the differences that exist within the genre. But it is also a genre predominantly performed by black men. And when you have the pervasive racism that has existed in the US for decades, it's hard not to see this as yet another symptom.

It's also interesting that there are only what, three or four rap artists who have been nominated more than once for AOTY? - And one of them is white. In a predominantly black field. Make of that what you will.
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Postby clh_hilary » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:15 am

cheapthrills wrote:It's probably a bit of both. I think voters tend to go with what is safe, which is why you might have a Norah or a Herbie or a Luther. I think voters find rap intimidating precisely because it can be so political. Or they just want to lump it all as one dumpster fire of a genre because they don't take the time to appreciate the differences that exist within the genre. But it is also a genre predominantly performed by black men. And when you have the pervasive racism that has existed in the US for decades, it's hard not to see this as yet another symptom.
R&B is also a genre predominantly performed by black men, but as you can see, they are well awarded. If voters opt not to vote for hip-hop music due to its political nature (which many might not be able to understand), that's not racism. But with hip-hop, there's also the obvious dimension that it's not ordinary pop music - not bubblegum, not melodic, not catchy. There's a reason why it didn't enter the mainstream until relatively recently.
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Postby GetBack » Wed Jan 31, 2018 12:34 am

cheapthrills wrote:I think voters tend to go with what is safe, which is why you might have a Norah or a Herbie or a Luther. I think voters find rap intimidating precisely because it can be so political. Or they just want to lump it all as one dumpster fire of a genre because they don't take the time to appreciate the differences that exist within the genre. But it is also a genre predominantly performed by black men. And when you have the pervasive racism that has existed in the US for decades, it's hard not to see this as yet another symptom.
It's just simple. They are not popular with the voting group, that's all. :lol: :lol:

It's crazy how many hip hop albums have the strongest stories and themes that are not even discussed in pop genres but they lose all graces and refinement (mostly fans) when they don't get the popularity vote. Aren't they supposed to be empowered and secure with themselves since they deliver 'powerful' messages and are considered to be of 'greater artistic value' after all?

The Grammys just like every contest out there votes for who they like, there is no criteria on how socially on point a song is. There is no percentage breakdown per lyric on how sensible a song is for it to be hailed as a winner. :-? :-?
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Postby cheapthrills » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:20 am

clh_hilary wrote:
cheapthrills wrote:It's probably a bit of both. I think voters tend to go with what is safe, which is why you might have a Norah or a Herbie or a Luther. I think voters find rap intimidating precisely because it can be so political. Or they just want to lump it all as one dumpster fire of a genre because they don't take the time to appreciate the differences that exist within the genre. But it is also a genre predominantly performed by black men. And when you have the pervasive racism that has existed in the US for decades, it's hard not to see this as yet another symptom.
R&B is also a genre predominantly performed by black men, but as you can see, they are well awarded. If voters opt not to vote for hip-hop music due to its political nature (which many might not be able to understand), that's not racism. But with hip-hop, there's also the obvious dimension that it's not ordinary pop music - not bubblegum, not melodic, not catchy. There's a reason why it didn't enter the mainstream until relatively recently.
I think that's exactly racism - "I refuse to understand you, therefore you are irrelevant" is pretty close to the issue many black people raise about our society. In the US, rap has been a popular genre here for decades - so the general public here would disagree that it is a) a recent phenomenon and b) "not catchy". On sheer cultural relevance, it's embarrassing what a blind spot it is for NARAS (among many).

As far as the R&B vs Rap divide, it's also clear there are issues there. I wouldn't argue that they are necessarily well rewarded. I do think they have a leg up over rap in being apolitical though. Unfortunately, our society has shown in the last few years that we prefer black people when they don't complain about legit social issues.
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Postby TIfan » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:22 am

clh_hilary wrote:
TIfan wrote:Newsflash, Blacks invented country music. But we saw what happened when a Black woman performed at the CMA awards.
So since the Greeks invented theatre, should Greeks be winning most of the Academy Awards every year?

The Chinese and Arabs might have invented poems, so are they the only ethnic groups who should be winning Nobel Literature Prizes?

Since Anglo-Saxon people invented English, does it mean at least anyone not white are not allowed to win an English literature award?

Who invented what is irrelevant if they don't end up being the majority of producers.

I'm not saying white people aren't racist, I'm just stating the obvious fact that black acts are not underrepresented in AOTY at the Grammys.
Not when everyone is participating. Everyone should gave a fair shot. That's why people complained.
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Postby GetBack » Wed Jan 31, 2018 1:43 am

TIfan wrote:Newsflash, Blacks invented country music. But we saw what happened when a Black woman performed at the CMA awards.
Oh boy, too much of Beyoncé music can really damage your brain. :lol: :lol:
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Postby TIfan » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:31 am

GetBack wrote:
TIfan wrote:Newsflash, Blacks invented country music. But we saw what happened when a Black woman performed at the CMA awards.
Oh boy, too much of Beyoncé music can really damage your brain. :lol: :lol:
So blacks did not invent country music???? Learn something littke boy/girl. Too much hate has damaged your soul. Yiu go around hating a woman for no apparent reason. You need real help.
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Postby SummerPeur » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:19 am

This is getting a little out of hand now :(.

There’s no true constructive debating going on anymore.
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Postby ferrero » Wed Jan 31, 2018 5:28 am

cheapthrills wrote:Call me when a rap album actually manages to win a major award.
Lauryn Hill :D
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Postby biscuits » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:09 am

SummerPeur wrote:This is getting a little out of hand now :(.

There’s no true constructive debating going on anymore.
I agree. Everyone seems rooted in their beliefs already
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Postby TIfan » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:22 am

I played a role. I will agree to disagree, and move on, but I will always fight for my black people. Always!
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Postby thankfulforkelly » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:43 am

Could the title of this thread be changed please? Maybe it’s just me and my white guilt and being overly politically correct, but the term ‘blacks’ doesn’t sit well with me
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Postby Debs_Wild » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:47 am

TIfan wrote:I played a role. I will agree to disagree, and move on, but I will always fight for my black people. Always!
That's racist! I'm actually offended. :-?

You should fight for ALL people, no matter what their color is - white, black, yellow, etc.
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Postby urbanmusik » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:53 am

Debs_Wild wrote:
TIfan wrote:I played a role. I will agree to disagree, and move on, but I will always fight for my black people. Always!
That's racist! I'm actually offended. :-?

You should fight for ALL people, no matter what their color is - white, black, yellow, etc.
Fighting for the rights and against mistreatmen of a certain minority doesn’t equal taking away rights from anyone or not wanting rights for other minorities.

Funny enough it’s always the racists that use your argument when trying to disregard civil rights movements

The topic title isn’t wholly accurate and is clearly trying to incite hate.
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Postby biscuits » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:07 am

I don’t think the title is inciting hate. It’s just a response to the ongoing narrative as of late.

I bet there were more google searches for ‘Bruno Mars race’ since Sunday than there has been in the past 5 years. People love to make everything an issue these days.
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Postby biscuits » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:14 am

TIfan wrote:I played a role. I will agree to disagree, and move on, but I will always fight for my black people. Always!
It’s stuff like this which got OJ acquitted
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Postby TIfan » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:35 am

biscuits wrote:
TIfan wrote:I played a role. I will agree to disagree, and move on, but I will always fight for my black people. Always!
It’s stuff like this which got OJ acquitted
Explain!!!!
Because from what I gathered, the prosecutor was caught on tape saying that he had targeted blacks specifically, and that is what changed the entire case.
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Postby biscuits » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:43 am

It became a case of black vs. white instead of a double homicide trial
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